Bentley v JOH: reaction to missing a pen

[gomessi]

just seen it on tv.

bbentley looks like he doesnt give a shit

JOH looks absolutly devastated.

RIP David Bentley.

Aaron lennon will be the spurs right winger for the next decade:001_smile: Just need a left winger.

[TURKISH]

Do you honestly believe Bentley doesn't give a shit?

People react different to others in certain situations, just because Bentley didn't cry doesn't mean he isn't distraught.:sad:

[berbzy 'G']

O'hara will always be more loyal and commited to the club than Bentley in my opinion. I personnley think alot of our players didnt give a shit. I did not like the way Gomes was smiling constantly when it came to penalties, I thought it was quite arrogant. But as I said, none of our players gave a f*ck apart from Modric and Lennon who really put themselves out...

[choda]

I wouldn't read to much into reactions. Gomes was smiling as he knew he could be a hero and no pressure on him, he's good on pens. He was trying to relax berps, so he could perform his best!

People have different personalities but I just Bentley is a knob anyway the way he goes on and doesn't back it with work rate and performances. JoH is salt of the earth, a geniune honest lad who I feel will make it in the game because he does not have to be told what he should be doing to earn his wages and respect the fans; shows courage, tries to do the right things, works hard and shows commitment without having to be asked.

This is a feature of many players who made it to the top despite not being the most gifted in the playground (though when played centrally he has a lot more ability than people realise).

He reminds me of Carragher, Gary Neville and people like that. People I didn't rate early in their careers and I even actually rate JoH's ability early in his career.

[gomessi]

Do you honestly believe Bentley doesn't give a shit?

People react different to others in certain situations, just because Bentley didn't cry doesn't mean he isn't distraught.:sad:


No I think he is upset and is not showing it.

my frustration comes from the fact he has been a complete flop and worst of all wont make it because we have a right winger who is fulfilling his potential.

Where does that leave bentley?

I'd guess out of the door in the summer.

I'm a bit upset and frustated mate and I shouldnt be making a scapegoat but his lack of effort all season really angers me.

[TURKISH]

No I think he is upset and is not showing it.

my frustration comes from the fact he has been a complete flop and worst of all wont make it because we have a right winger who is fulfilling his potential.

Where does that leave bentley?

I'd guess out of the door in the summer.

I'm a bit upset and frustated mate and I shouldnt be making a scapegoat but his lack of effort all season really angers me.

The problem Bentley has is Lennon, he will never get in the team ahead of lennon and maybe the best thing would be for him to leave?

I do rate him though and think given a consistent run down the run wing he will perform. Not sure who will buy him off us?

[choda]

The problem Bentley has is Lennon, he will never get in the team ahead of lennon and maybe the best thing would be for him to leave?

I do rate him though and think given a consistent run down the run wing he will perform. Not sure who will buy him off us?

The problem with Bentley is he's vastly overated, he's a lazy pr*ck and we were mugged for 15 million.

[gomessi]

The problem Bentley has is Lennon, he will never get in the team ahead of lennon and maybe the best thing would be for him to leave?

I do rate him though and think given a consistent run down the run wing he will perform. Not sure who will buy him off us?

man city.

they pay double for everyone so we should get £15-20m :lol:

[TURKISH]

man city.

they pay double for everyone so we should get £15-20m :lol:

They have swp, but hughes does rate him though. Maybe get a swap deal going with someone?

[Shelfside]

IMO the difference was this:
The penalty that JoH took was an honest attempt by a player with a lot of heart but very little guille.He,like a number of players who you wouldn't expect to be taking a penalty,would hit it and hope that it goes in.What he did was a mistake.
Bentley on the other hand is someone who you would be expecting to take a penalty.As far as I am concerned Bentley bottled it.In the same way that JJ bottled his penalty in the shoot out with PSV last season.Bentley walks the walk but cannot talk the talk.Every time I see him play I begin to think that Arsene Wenger was right to express doubts about him and to let him leave Arsenal.
The problem that Bentley has is that he really isn't as good as he thinks he is.

[MarlowSpurs]

Just need a left winger.

Did anyone see the middlesborough highlights on match of the day?? Downing had a blinder of a game

[gomessi]

Did anyone see the middlesborough highlights on match of the day?? Downing had a blinder of a game

yeah I know.

I also watched downing at old trafford. boro lost 1-0 but downing had a blinder. Set 3 chances up on a plate.

I need to see him do this more if he is to convince me. At the moment I'm strongly in favor of getting mata/capel/zhirkov ahead of downing. All 3 though are valued over £15m.

[TURKISH]

IMO the difference was this:
The penalty that JoH took was an honest attempt by a player with a lot of heart but very little guille.He,like a number of players who you wouldn't expect to be taking a penalty,would hit it and hope that it goes in.What he did was a mistake.
Bentley on the other hand is someone who you would be expecting to take a penalty.As far as I am concerned Bentley bottled it.In the same way that JJ bottled his penalty in the shoot out with PSV last season.Bentley walks the walk but cannot talk the talk.Every time I see him play I begin to think that Arsene Wenger was right to express doubts about him and to let him leave Arsenal.
The problem that Bentley has is that he really isn't as good as he thinks he is.

JOH pen was hit in the same area as jj. They all bottled it but I can understand why, we should of put forward more confident penalty takers.

[gomessi]

JOH pen was hit in the same area as jj. They all bottled it but I can understand why, we should of put forward more confident penalty takers.

like who?

bale missed his last one for wales
mod missed his last 2

bent possibly

after that I'm struggling.

[eastcoastspurs]

The problem with Bentley is he's vastly overated, he's a lazy pr*ck and we were mugged for 15 million.

100% agree with you fella

[TURKISH]

like who?

bale missed his last one for wales
mod missed his last 2

bent possibly

after that I'm struggling.

Bent can take a pen and charlie looked calm. Everyone will tell you when you are in a penalty shootout you have to make sure your best pen taker goes first. For me bent, modric should be in the top three. I know mod missed last two pens but he is one of our

[Shelfside]

JOH pen was hit in the same area as jj. They all bottled it but I can understand why, we should of put forward more confident penalty takers.

But as I said on the match thread,United had Anderson taking and scoring a penalty.As far as I know he has never scored for them.A lack of composure cost us today.All teams are equal in penalty shoot outs.Indeed didn't Burnley beat Chelsea in a shoot out?.

[Rojoknapp]

Did anyone see the middlesborough highlights on match of the day?? Downing had a blinder of a game

I was watching that like :drool: :drool: :drool:

That touch when he took it from over his shoulder and then drove on was world class. Without even exaggerating, Berabc*nt may not have even been able to do it so perfectly.

[TURKISH]

But as I said on the match thread,United had Anderson taking and scoring a penalty.As far as I know he has never scored for them.A lack of composure cost us today.All teams are equal in penalty shoot outs.Indeed didn't Burnley beat Chelsea in a shoot out?.

Agree with you pal.

[peterc]

Not everyone expresses their emotions the same way, some hide it inside them, others don't. As regards to who did what and shot what makes no difference, they both did not score. Cruel way to lose a final, but it was not to be.

[choda]

I think it was mad to put up a young player to take the first penalty. He has the ability, I don't know why some people say he doesn't (he's a central player), but it was too much responsibility.

Didn't he smash one in against PSV? But it was the third pen or so.

Bent should've taken the first one, then Modric, then JoH, then Charlie, then King (unflappable), then Bentley, then Bale, then Jenas, then Ekotto, then Lennon.

Lot's of good players have missed penalties, it's mostly a mind game when it comes to the pressure. You need Roy Keane's, Ledley King's and people who are naturally gifted at keeping composure and staying in the present.

You need a stick on scorer to start a regular pen taker who will feel in his element.

I agree United had more of the the composure, they are cool from the experiences of big games and winning them, but not scoring the first one probably made it easier for them to settle and just put them away.

[berbzy 'G']

Well atleast we can garentee to have a nice little £15 million budget to spend from Bentley in the summer.

It should go straight to this lad who is a fantastic talent

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h43BSddtfMQ

[gomessi]

Well atleast we can garentee to have a nice little £15 million budget to spend from Bentley in the summer.

It should go straight to this lad who is a fantastic talent

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h43BSddtfMQ

he looks a two footed winger a bit like valencia. like him he has a similar style to lennon but I dont watch german football so you need to tell me more berbz

[gomessi]

berbz mata who plays for valencia is a better player IMO.

a left winger that scores goals, makes goals, is super quick, great technically and will probably be available in the summer

watch this berbz

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D35UVkZgjwA&feature=related

:001_smile:

harry probably wont sign him because he'll fail to pass the new height requirements:sad:

[TURKISH]

I think it was mad to put up a young player to take the first penalty. He has the ability, I don't know why some people say he doesn't (he's a central player), but it was too much responsibility.

Didn't he smash one in against PSV? But it was the third pen or so.

Bent should've taken the first one, then Modric, then JoH, then Charlie, then King (unflappable), then Bentley, then Bale, then Jenas, then Ekotto, then Lennon.

Lot's of good players have missed penalties, it's mostly a mind game when it comes to the pressure. You need Roy Keane's, Ledley King's and people who are naturally gifted at keeping composure and staying in the present.

You need a stick on scorer to start a regular pen taker who will feel in his element.

I agree United had more of the the composure, they are cool from the experiences of big games and winning them, but not scoring the first one probably made it easier for them to settle and just put them away.

Jamie would be in my top five pen takers from the selection we had but he would be number four or three for me. But the occassion got to him why? Because he is a spurs lad through and through and his emotions got the better of him (didn't want to let the fans down). But he's penalty was identical to the one against psv.

[choda]

Jamie would be in my top five pen takers from the selection we had but he would be number four or three for me. But the occassion got to him why? Because he is a spurs lad through and through and his emotions got the better of him (didn't want to let the fans down). But he's penalty was identical to the one against psv.

I think if you get into thinking about the future or the past you are f*cked. And it's very easy unless you make sure you are just going to stay here and now, not let your mind wander and take the penalty. That way you take it as you normally would or even better as you will be 'in the zone' with the importance of it.

I think you could see some of our lads just got lost before they took it. It can happen easier to people not used to the real pressure situation. Ironic that two spurs fans for life missed, maybe they just lost the run of themselves that bit easier.

JoH and Bentley were visibly not as focused as they could have been. Compare that to giggs. Anywhere but off the post and it wasn't in or was saved as gomes made a great effort. Disappointing, talking inches and the momentum was with us and less pressure on the younger lads.

[mjbmedia]

different people react differently to things, its simple pyschology. Doesnt mean Bentley didnt give a f*ck about it, he probably felt a complete nana for missing the target and just wanted the ground to open up and swallow him.
But at least he stepped up to the plate, which is more than some others did, tho to be fair some were out on their feet (Modric,Dawson,King,Zokora and probably Bent too)
JOH, has bottle we all know that, yeh it was saved, lets be honest Giggs pen could have missed , it could be called perfection but look at the relief on his face, it was a bit of luck too.
Chances are we didnt practice pens enough with all the squad and why were our players out on their feet while no Man U player suffered cramp at all, yet all ours rested on Thursday for that exact reason!

[Ioang]

Pen's are a lottery. It's annoying me how the press are sayin Foster looking at an ipod of our pens made them win. What, he saw a load of O'Hara, Corluka, Bentley penalties? Absoloute bollocks they've probably taken 3 between them in their careers.

[irishspur]

Id say bent and luka were the next two to take pens. Pity bale didnt take one hes good at them. Also pav has a 100% record from the spot:cursing:

[MiloMinderbinder]

I think it was mad to put up a young player to take the first penalty. You need a stick on scorer to start a regular pen taker who will feel in his element.
.

Totally agree. It's one thing letting a young player take a pen but to let him take a decisive pen (pen one, three or five) is ridiculous.

[mjbmedia]

eh theyre all decisive pens.
Anderson took pen 4 and that WAS decisive proving my point :001_smile:
I know what you mean really

[Rojoknapp]

Pen's are a lottery. It's annoying me how the press are sayin Foster looking at an ipod of our pens made them win. What, he saw a load of O'Hara, Corluka, Bentley penalties? Absoloute bollocks they've probably taken 3 between them in their careers.

Yeah, they're being right tossers about that. One report said of Eric Steele, the united gk coach: "Give that man a medal." F*ck off. Apparently he showed Foster a video of O'Hara's penalty vs Czech Republic (which was saved :001_rolleyes: ) and he went the same way yesterday as he did then. One bloody penalty and Steele deserves a f*cking medal!?! F*ckin hate Man U and the way everyone bumlicks them.

[TURKISH]

Yeah, they're being right tossers about that. One report said of Eric Steele, the united gk coach: "Give that man a medal." F*ck off. Apparently he showed Foster a video of O'Hara's penalty vs Czech Republic (which was saved :001_rolleyes: ) and he went the same way yesterday as he did then. One bloody penalty and Steele deserves a f*cking medal!?! F*ckin hate Man U and the way everyone bumlicks them.

JOH missed a pen for england? He also went the same way as he did against PSV. I don't think that ipod could invision Bentleys not hitting the target.

Giggs was lucky and at the end of the day United fancied it more on penaltys. Experience came through in the end.

[Rojoknapp]

JOH missed a pen for england? He also went the same way as he did against PSV. I don't think that ipod could invision Bentleys not hitting the target.

Giggs was lucky and at the end of the day United fancied it more on penaltys. Experience came through in the end.

Apparently in an u21's game he did the exact same penalty - mid height, just to the left of the keeper. If he'd done what he did against PSV it would have been fine, that was low and near the corner - a good penalty :cursing:

[TURKISH]

Apparently in an u21's game he did the exact same penalty - mid height, just to the left of the keeper. If he'd done what he did against PSV it would have been fine, that was low and near the corner - a good penalty :cursing:

I could of swarn JOH Pen against PSV was the same as the wembley kick.

We need video evidence for this.

[gomessi]

different people react differently to things, its simple pyschology. Doesnt mean Bentley didnt give a f*ck about it, he probably felt a complete nana for missing the target and just wanted the ground to open up and swallow him.
But at least he stepped up to the plate, which is more than some others did, tho to be fair some were out on their feet (Modric,Dawson,King,Zokora and probably Bent too)
JOH, has bottle we all know that, yeh it was saved, lets be honest Giggs pen could have missed , it could be called perfection but look at the relief on his face, it was a bit of luck too.
Chances are we didnt practice pens enough with all the squad and why were our players out on their feet while no Man U player suffered cramp at all, yet all ours rested on Thursday for that exact reason!

its because our fitness regime are shit. :sad:

[Rojoknapp]

I could of swarn JOH Pen against PSV was the same as the wembley kick.

We need video evidence for this.

Vs PSV he went to Gomes' left, and he got a hand on it low down, but couldn't keep it out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAwMPg-_-6w

1:26. He hits it really hard too.

[TURKISH]

Vs PSV he went to Gomes' left, and he got a hand on it low down, but couldn't keep it out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAwMPg-_-6w

1:26. He hits it really hard too.

Cheers for finding that I knew he went to the keepers left but didn't realise he went low.

Another point about Bentley I must make is he has had a rubbish season which he has admitted, the fans are on he's back and when Harry was asking who wanted to take a penalty he could of done the easiest thing for himself and said no. But he didn't he stepped up to the plate considering everything that has happened to himself on and off the field.

[choda]

Cheers for finding that I knew he went to the keepers left but didn't realise he went low.

Another point about Bentley I must make is he has had a rubbish season which he has admitted, the fans are on he's back and when Harry was asking who wanted to take a penalty he could of done the easiest thing for himself and said no. But he didn't he stepped up to the plate considering everything that has happened to himself on and off the field.

Today I heard Les saying that they asked who would step up. As I say I'm not going to criticise him for missing as anyone can miss and fair play that he put his hand up to take one. Being a good striker of the ball he'd have been on my list anyway. Okay terrible pen, but I can't help feeling that Bent should've taken the first one and calm the lads not as used to pens down a lot. We had more riding on it than ManU, so I think we needed one slotted to begin.

[TURKISH]

Today I heard Les saying that they asked who would step up. As I say I'm not going to criticise him for missing as anyone can miss and fair play that he put his hand up to take one. Being a good striker of the ball he'd have been on my list anyway. Okay terrible pen, but I can't help feeling that Bent should've taken the first one and calm the lads not as used to pens down a lot. We had more riding on it than ManU, so I think we needed one slotted to begin.

Good to hear Sir Les talking sense. 100% agree with you pal for me your best Pen taker goes first otherwise if you miss first your basically fvcked.

What I didn't like which I hope people understand where I'm coming from, when JOH missed he started crying as if he cost us winning the carling cup, it was the first pen and he should of put on a brave face for the lads. If the lads see him crying as if its over than it puts doubt into there minds and ultimately makes them believe its over.

I had no problem with him crying or anything and I suppose the guy felt gutted that he let himself and most importantly the fans down (which he didn't it happens) . Never say die is my attitude and I was disapointed that he didn't keep himself togeather for the rest of the lads as we still had a chance to win.

[choda]

Good to hear Sir Les talking sense. 100% agree with you pal for me your best Pen taker goes first otherwise if you miss first your basically fvcked.

What I didn't like which I hope people understand where I'm coming from, when JOH missed he started crying as if he cost us winning the carling cup, it was the first pen and he should of put on a brave face for the lads. If the lads see him crying as if its over than it puts doubt into there minds and ultimately makes them believe its over.

I had no problem with him crying or anything and I suppose the guy felt gutted that he let himself and most importantly the fans down (which he didn't it happens) . Never say die is my attitude and I was disapointed that he didn't keep himself togeather for the rest of the lads as we still had a chance to win.

I didn't see that, but I don't think that would matter to be honest. People just know he cares deeply and wears his heart on his sleeve.

[TURKISH]

I didn't see that, but I don't think that would matter to be honest. People just know he cares deeply and wears his heart on his sleeve.

I don't mean to be a prick about it I just felt he shouldn't have reacted the way he did when we still had a chance to win. But I suppose when you so badly want to do well and not let anyone down your emotions get the better of you.

[choda]

I don't mean to a prick about it I just felt he shouldn't have reacted the way he did when we still had a chance to win. But I suppose when you so badly want to do well and not let anyone down your emotions get the better of you.

Yea, I know what you mean, but I think scoring or not scoring was the main thing that affected mentality from then on. They really should have put Bent up first, he's just a machine when it comes to finishing. It's a pity he literally can't do anything else very well at all.

[Ioang]

It's all XP for the lad. Hope he keeps getting better and better and gets more chances in the middle.

[olly27]

I do agree that you should put the better penalty takers up first. However these guys can all place a ball and the biggest factor in all this is mental strength and bottle. United won the CL on penalties were the pressure knob was at its max...in a way I think we had lost before a penalty was even kicked, I know may will disagree just my feeling.

[olly27]

Actually I remember saying to my cousin when Corluka walked up that he is going to score here as he looked quite cool and collected...I dont think Corluka would of been many people's 2nd choice penalty taker!!

[olly27]

Another thing that bugged me about Bentley, lately, is this personal problems stuff coming out and why his form has been sub standard (generous) this season.


I dont recall Lampard using that as an excuse when his mum died, infact he was still scoring goals.

Wilson seems to be doing well considering his younger brother has been kidknapped!

I mean come on, I would bet his personal problems don't even come close to the aforementioned.

[TURKISH]

Another thing that bugged me about Bentley, lately, is this personal problems stuff coming out and why his form has been sub standard (generous) this season.


I dont recall Lampard using that as an excuse when his mum died, infact he was still scoring goals.

Wilson seems to be doing well considering his younger brother has been kidknapped!

I mean come on, I would bet his personal problems don't even come close to the aforementioned.

People react different mate to certain situations, Wilson did play badly when he's brother first got kidknappedd. We don't know what Bentley has been through (probly not much anyway) but the biggest reason why he hasn't performed is because lennon has kept him out the team. Bentley needs to know he's gonna get a run of games and that he's position is never under threat like it was a blackburn.

[rodkralik]

Nice to see some balanced responses. Turkish should become a professional counsellor - sees all sides objectively. Choda - you disappoint me. Your attacks on Bentley seem to be more a dislike of his personality as the media have presented it, rather than your subjective but always well-thought analysis. As for David Bentley not showing emotion, he might well have had to keep a tight rein on his feelings if he's in the middle of grieving, to avoid a breakdown in front of thousands. For myself, I still have an indestuctible liking for him (unless he signs for Manchester United).

[Rojoknapp]

Nice to see some balanced responses. Turkish should become a professional counsellor - sees all sides objectively. Choda - you disappoint me. Your attacks on Bentley seem to be more a dislike of his personality as the media have presented it, rather than your subjective but always well-thought analysis. As for David Bentley not showing emotion, he might well have had to keep a tight rein on his feelings if he's in the middle of grieving, to avoid a breakdown in front of thousands. For myself, I still have an indestuctible liking for him (unless he signs for Manchester United).

While I will continue to pray fervently for that day, I fear that I may never see those headlines in all their glory. :sad:

[choda]

Nice to see some balanced responses. Turkish should become a professional counsellor - sees all sides objectively. Choda - you disappoint me. Your attacks on Bentley seem to be more a dislike of his personality as the media have presented it, rather than your subjective but always well-thought analysis. As for David Bentley not showing emotion, he might well have had to keep a tight rein on his feelings if he's in the middle of grieving, to avoid a breakdown in front of thousands. For myself, I still have an indestuctible liking for him (unless he signs for Manchester United).

Come again? I didn't attack the lad for missing a penalty or not showing any emotion at all, in fact I defended him on that point and I commended his bravery for stepping up to take a penalty.

But I can't and won't defend not working hard enough on the pitch for your team and not earning your wages. That's why my opinion on him and JoH are light years apart. One lad is a winner (or will be), someone you can hang your hat on and the other is an overated prima donna who is both not performing and not working.

[Rojoknapp]

Come again? I didn't attack the lad for missing a penalty or not showing any emotion at all, in fact I defended him on that point and I commended his bravery for stepping up to take a penalty.

But I can't and won't defend not working hard enough on the pitch for your team and not earning your wages. That's why my opinion on him and JoH are light years apart. One lad is a winner (or will be), someone you can rest your hat on and the other is an overated prima donna who is both not performing and not working.

Not any more :thumbdown:

[MiloMinderbinder]

Noone has mentioned that Bentley Big Bollox missed the frickin target, he didn't have his kick saved, he frickin' missed. He gets no credit, zero, zilch, nada. ****wit.

[gomessi]

While I will continue to pray fervently for that day, I fear that I may never see those headlines in all their glory. :sad:

how the hell did he manage to score a hatrick against man u :confused1:

[Shelfside]

Noone has mentioned that Bentley Big Bollox missed the frickin target, he didn't have his kick saved, he frickin' missed. He gets no credit, zero, zilch, nada. ****wit.
As I have already posted,Bentley bottled it.Whatever some of the other posters have said about the pressure of the penalty shoot out,what about last years final and the Berbatov penalty kick?.As far as I am concerned there was just as much pressure,if not more,on him to score from that spot kick.And just look at the composure that Berbatov showed.He made it look effortlessly easy.
And that is the point.Quality players may make mistakes of course,but they will never bottle it.David Bentley will never be as great a player on the pitch as he is in his own mind.

[TURKISH]

As I have already posted,Bentley bottled it.Whatever some of the other posters have said about the pressure of the penalty shoot out,what about last years final and the Berbatov penalty kick?.As far as I am concerned there was just as much pressure,if not more,on him to score from that spot kick.And just look at the composure that Berbatov showed.He made it look effortlessly easy.
And that is the point.Quality players may make mistakes of course,but they will never bottle it.David Bentley will never be as great a player on the pitch as he is in his own mind.

The difference being Berba's personality to react to pressures situations better than Bentley. Not everyone can make a pen look that easy, plus if berba would of missed it wouldn't have cost us the game there and then.

[Rojoknapp]

Noone has mentioned that Bentley Big Bollox missed the frickin target, he didn't have his kick saved, he frickin' missed. He gets no credit, zero, zilch, nada. ****wit.

I don't think it's on this thread, but I have definitely attacked him for that somewhere on the forum. The bloody pillock. :001_rolleyes:

[singapore spur]

The difference being Berba's personality to react to pressures situations better than Bentley. Not everyone can make a pen look that easy, plus if berba would of missed it wouldn't have cost us the game there and then.

plus the fact berby probably wouldnt have given a shit if he missed or not

[singapore spur]

I do agree that you should put the better penalty takers up first. However these guys can all place a ball and the biggest factor in all this is mental strength and bottle. United won the CL on penalties were the pressure knob was at its max...in a way I think we had lost before a penalty was even kicked, I know may will disagree just my feeling.

spot on in my book , and to be honest i would fancy myself to score a penalty against any keeper down the park of a sunday afternoon , but in a cup final on the telly in front of 80k screaming fans , and another few million armchair watchers its a different ball game .