Match Thread: Fulham vs Tottenham Hotspur

[Neil_Vaughan]

Talk about the game in here before, during and after.

[TURKISH]

I got a feeling we will only get a point.:thumbdown:

[Gino Ginelli]

COYS COYS COYS!! We're in such good form and getting better with every game! 3-1 to us!

[LifeTimeYido]

Easy win for us - clean sheet to boot !!

2-0.... Zokora to get his 1st........ and Bent to score of course !!

[berbzy 'G']

I'm not gonna get too clever with this game. Predictiong a draw, almost certainly it will be.

[GQCoolest]

I think we batter them. They're low on quality, and we should boss the midfield no matter who is in there. 1-3. Bent X 2 and Modric.

[Rojoknapp]

Anyone who saw the newcastle game at the cottage will agree with me in predicting that fulham will be raped. hard. To the tune of 3-0. Bent and JJ. :thumbup:

[heartofspurs]

Reckon it'll be quite hard. But, with have the momentum to go there and get a blinding result. I reckon we'll have a low key first half and then get our stuff together. We do need to win though to give us the first bit of daylight from the bottom since the start of the season. Come on spurs!!!

[gomessi]

there is a pattern in our goal scoring since harry arrived:

2bolton
4
2lpool
4
2man city
4
so..... should get 2 against fulham. I will go for 0-2.

[peterc]

With confidence higher than ever, we will win this one 0-3, Bent x 2, Pavlyuchenko x 1. COYS.:thumbup1: :thumbup1: :thumbup1:

[Jenas8]

we are a much stronger team on paper, but still need 2 show it on the pitch, if we play like we have lately, and king starts, i can c us winning..

fulham v tottenham 0-2

bent, bentley...

3 pts very important right here, if we take one game at a time, and not get 2 carried away, we can go far dis season....

[rodkralik]

We were the Gandalf the Grey of the Premiership, weary and fearful of our survival against the great and dreadful Balrog of relegation. Into the chasm we fell, and there we wrestled with the fell servant of Morgoth Bauglir, accepting our frailty but never relinquishing hope in divine providence, that our faith would be answered. We slew the demon of might, and in turn passed into shadow, and all seemed lost. But lo! Eru Illuvatar Himself could not ignore such suffering and sacrifice, and we were restored, humbler and yet as greater than afore. As the Gandalf the White of the Premiership, the light of Valinor does shine forth once more, even from the very threads of our team's unblemished shirts, and before it orc, Ulairi and gooner alike do flee and cower in cavern and under hill. So, with words of prophecy, inspired by the Valar their very selves as they are seated and enthroned in Aman, awaiting the end of Ea when at last the whole will of Illuvatar should be revealed, let us affirm a win for the Lilywhites. (Galadriel has had a quick gander in that mirror of 'ers, and thinks 0-2, but Elrond is going with 0-3. Galadriel lived in the light of the Two Trees, and feels this gives her the edge, but Elrond has divine blood pumping through his elvish body, due to his being descended from Luthien Tinuviel, daughter of Thingol and Melian, so I'm going with Elrond).

[gomessi]

We were the Gandalf the Grey of the Premiership, weary and fearful of our survival against the great and dreadful Balrog of relegation. Into the chasm we fell, and there we wrestled with the fell servant of Morgoth Bauglir, accepting our frailty but never relinquishing hope in divine providence, that our faith would be answered. We slew the demon of might, and in turn passed into shadow, and all seemed lost. But lo! Eru Illuvatar Himself could not ignore such suffering and sacrifice, and we were restored, humbler and yet as greater than afore. As the Gandalf the White of the Premiership, the light of Valinor does shine forth once more, even from the very threads of our team's unblemished shirts, and before it orc, Ulairi and gooner alike do flee and cower in cavern and under hill. So, with words of prophecy, inspired by the Valar their very selves as they are seated and enthroned in Aman, awaiting the end of Ea when at last the whole will of Illuvatar should be revealed, let us affirm a win for the Lilywhites. (Galadriel has had a quick gander in that mirror of 'ers, and thinks 0-2, but Elrond is going with 0-3. Galadriel lived in the light of the Two Trees, and feels this gives her the edge, but Elrond has divine blood pumping through his elvish body, due to his being descended from Luthien Tinuviel, daughter of Thingol and Melian, so I'm going with Elrond).

Love reading your posts:thumbup: :thumbup:

Great imagery, imagination, ingenuity and thought put into your posts as always. Pleasure to read:001_smile:

[Shelfside]

We have come through our difficult fixtures with flying colours,so now is the time to start climbing that league table.Fulham away is a nice trip back in time to a real football ground and I think that we will round off a nice day out with a 3-1 win.

[singapore spur]

We were the Gandalf the Grey of the Premiership, weary and fearful of our survival against the great and dreadful Balrog of relegation. Into the chasm we fell, and there we wrestled with the fell servant of Morgoth Bauglir, accepting our frailty but never relinquishing hope in divine providence, that our faith would be answered. We slew the demon of might, and in turn passed into shadow, and all seemed lost. But lo! Eru Illuvatar Himself could not ignore such suffering and sacrifice, and we were restored, humbler and yet as greater than afore. As the Gandalf the White of the Premiership, the light of Valinor does shine forth once more, even from the very threads of our team's unblemished shirts, and before it orc, Ulairi and gooner alike do flee and cower in cavern and under hill. So, with words of prophecy, inspired by the Valar their very selves as they are seated and enthroned in Aman, awaiting the end of Ea when at last the whole will of Illuvatar should be revealed, let us affirm a win for the Lilywhites. (Galadriel has had a quick gander in that mirror of 'ers, and thinks 0-2, but Elrond is going with 0-3. Galadriel lived in the light of the Two Trees, and feels this gives her the edge, but Elrond has divine blood pumping through his elvish body, due to his being descended from Luthien Tinuviel, daughter of Thingol and Melian, so I'm going with Elrond).

yeah , what he said :001_smile:

we have better players than fulham , and now that we have some confidence , seemingly the right work ethic and attitude aligned with a canny manager , we should be putting teams like this to the sword , 1-3 to spurs

[SCIFIN17YID]

Hi guys does anyone know if this game is showing on tv sky or anything, or must i do a stream job ?

[jrio]

Hi guys does anyone know if this game is showing on tv sky or anything, or must i do a stream job ?

No, and there don't seem to be ANY streams either.:crying:

[LifeTimeYido]

No, and there don't seem to be ANY streams either.:crying:

http://www.myp2p.eu/broadcast.php?matchid=23745&part=sports

Try here - more may appear later as we get closer to the kick off.

EDIT : SopCast Channel - 48609

[SurreySpur]

Im going for a draw here, fulham to score early and us to draw level after the break.

[TURKISH]

Any good links?

[SurreySpur]

Any good links?

I cant find anything yet

[TURKISH]

http://www.freshmillion.com/livefooty/#

Go channel 12.

[TURKISH]

What a save gomes.

[TURKISH]

We look shiteeeeeeeee.:thumbdown:

[corkspur]

fulham well on top according to SSN,spurs looking a bit too cocky according to kamara.win first act cocky later!!

[matthius23]

http://www.freshmillion.com/livefooty/#

Go channel 12. This is playing like a dream... unfortunately we are not!

[TURKISH]

Huddlestone nearly cost us a goal, trying to go past bullard on the half way line loses it, he than plays in johnson but just over cooked the pass.

[Ioang]

Sounds like they're shitting on us. Hopefully we grab a lucky goal.

[TURKISH]

This is playing like a dream... unfortunately we are not!

Yep good link. Mod nearly score. Johnson looks like he is in the mood. I bet he dives and gets a pen!:thumbdown:

Don't like the commentator though, he sounds like a noob.

[TURKISH]

I think mod is injured and coming off. Lennon looks like he is coming on. Nearly scored from bents.

[TURKISH]

Gomes shocker. I give up with spurs keepers.:thumbdown: Fulham 1.0 simon davies.

[SCIFIN17YID]

why the **** dont they train gomez to catch the ball, ffs his mistake there might cost us the game.

[GQCoolest]

Gomes OUT. That was pathetic.

[peterc]

FFS Gomes, that is a Robbo special. We need another keeper come January.

[matthius23]

Anyone wanna stick up for Gomes on this one? Atrocious... made Carson against Croatia look like Gordon Banks.

[TURKISH]

Anyone wanna stick up for Gomes on this one? Atrocious... made Carson against Croatia look like Gordon Banks.

Ha ha im getting fat on humble pie.

[Ioang]

Lets just sign a ****ing proven ****ing premiership keeper and be done with it, don't care if they're special or not, there's plenty of them

Given or Jaaskeleinen would be perfect. Cudicini as well.

[lol]

gomes looks like hes on crack. get him out

[TURKISH]

Go 442 take mod and zok off for lennon and pav.

[peterc]

What Gomes's excuse this time?, still concussed from the last game.:thumbdown:

[choda]

Pretty even so far, don't deserve to be down. But we need to play a lot better, cm is not performing.

The keeper has to be taken off, another shocker. This all started when he cracked a rib and now he can't close his mouth either. Take him out and let him recover his fitness. His confidence has gone to pieces now too and needs time out to recover.

[Benjo]

Go 442 take mod and zok off for lennon and pav.

zok ok,but way mod? he is not injured.

[TURKISH]

Pretty even so far, don't deserve to be down. But we need to play a lot better, cm is not performing.

The keeper has to be taken off, another shocker. This all started when he cracked a rib and now he can't close his mouth either. Take him out and let him recover his fitness. His confidence has gone to pieces now too and needs time out to recover.

Allready one down we can't waste a sub on a keeper imo.

[lol]

this harper dude is probably better than gomes

[corkspur]

its not funny anymore guys,get him off!! we are still in a relegation battle and cant afford stupid mistakes by our keeper every game! we will always concede goals with that clown between the sticks!!

[TURKISH]

I hope arry lit a rocket up there bums!

[choda]

Allready one down we can't waste a sub on a keeper imo.

Well, you attack the main problem(s) first when things are not going right, do you not?

[Benjo]

**** he is really injured.

[peterc]

Go 442 take mod and zok off for lennon and pav.


Did you have a word with Harry at HT?.

[TURKISH]

Well, you attack the main problem(s) first when things are not going right, do you not?

I see what you mean but imo i wouldn't waste the sub.

[TURKISH]

Did you have a word with Harry at HT?.

Well i was near on right, just hudd came off.

Which proves my point its ok playing good against zagreb and liverpool reserves but can you do it in the prem?:001_rolleyes:

[peterc]

Well i was near on right, just hudd came off.

Which proves my point its ok playing good against zagreb and liverpool reserves but can you do it in the prem?:001_rolleyes:


You were spot on, they both were taken off and subbed as you stated.

[TURKISH]

You were spot on, they both were taken off and subbed as you stated.

When your one nil down and have lennon on the bench your gonna use him. Plus mod was injured and wouldn't be useful in a 442. We need another man up front so no brainer i don't think.

Bale and woody are suffering the lads need to up the tempo. Fulham look good.

[Mattyboii]

anyone got any streamings they could send my way
preferably ones that are on a website
dont want sopcast or any downloadable online players

[choda]

But why take off Hudd when JJ was much worse? :thumbdown:

[TURKISH]

But why take off Hudd when JJ was much worse? :thumbdown:

I disagree hudd was getting overun and losing possessioning in key areas. Both looked rubbish must be said but jj is more likely to get us goal and support play.

[TURKISH]

Get fraizer on for bent.

[matthius23]

Worst performance under HR, no question.

[TURKISH]

No one has looked good today. Fulham deserve win (if score stays same).

[GQCoolest]

Fulham has deserved it, very disappointing performance.

[SCIFIN17YID]

anyone got any streamings they could send my way
preferably ones that are on a website
dont want sopcast or any downloadable online players

http://www.freshmillion.com/livefooty/#

Here you got. we are 2 - 0 down :(

[TURKISH]

Arsenal losing, clichy own goal.

[matthius23]

No one has looked good today. Fulham deserve win (if score stays same). Yeah, they've been good. Dempsey and Zamora have had a great game.

[TURKISH]

Yeah, they've been good. Dempsey and Zamora have had a great game.

Funny thing is im not that upset, it seems they have performed like they did for ramos today and i hope harry gives them a telling off.

Bale has not been the same player for a while now and still hasn't won a prem game with for us.:thumbdown:

Hutton should of started for me but defensively again we look rubbish.

You get the feeling the players felt this would be a walk in the park.......well guess what it wasn't.:glare:

[TURKISH]

Come ON!!!!!!!!!! Fraizer!!!!!!!!!!!

Thats why you don't take JJ off!!!!!!!!!!!

[SCIFIN17YID]

COME ON YOU SPURS w00000t 2 - 1 come on !!!!

[peterc]

Bloody barcodes now wnning 2-1.

[Benjo]

in a first half tottenham played much better.

[corkspur]

balls!!! newcastle are winning!!

[TURKISH]

Gomes makes great save, world class.

Arsenal 2.0 down and shame newcastle are now winning.

[peterc]

Ah well, it had to come, yes, wigan just scored, 2-2 against the barcodes.

[matthius23]

Like you Turkish, I aint too pissed off. We maybe needed a loss to remind the players we are far from invincible!!! And Wigan equalised against 'Toon.

[SCIFIN17YID]

we loose :'( silly gomes blunder cost us the game.

[TURKISH]

Shit im not upset with the result but im ****ed off with how we played. Bottom three again tonight?:thumbdown:

[TURKISH]

Like you Turkish, I aint too pissed off. We maybe needed a loss to remind the players we are far from invincible!!! And Wigan equalised against 'Toon.

HAHAHA Cool.

[peterc]

Shit im not upset with the result but im ****ed off with how we played. Bottom three again tonight?:thumbdown:


Back to nineteenth place, hope WBA lose tomorrow,

[choda]

Bad, bad, bad. Stemmed from guess where? Yup central midfield, woeful in there Bullard made a monkey of our two. Different class.

JJ was utterly appalling, such a waste of space as usual. Zok was average.

Corluka has to be put in there, cm just costs us too many points. It's such an important position, if you lose it that badly you can't get your wingers or strikers into the game either.

Fulham played well, but if we had performed we would have been too good for them.

[apr82]

normal service resumed!new midfield please.

[corkspur]

shite!! back in the dropzone but 2 home games coming up. shame it had to end for harry!!

[heartofspurs]

I make us second from bottom :crying:
But Gomes apparently made a world class save at the close.

Back to a proper reality check. Premier league results must remain the priority and we need to bounce back against Blackburn. Come on you spurs!

[peterc]

Bad, bad, bad. Stemmed from guess where? Yup central midfield, woeful in there Bullard made a monkey of our two. Different class.

JJ was utterly appalling, such a waste of space as usual. Zok was average.

Corluka has to be put in there, cm just costs us too many points. It's such an important position, if you lose it that badly you can't get your wingers or strikers into the game either.

Fulham played well, but if we had performed we would have been too good for them.

Un necessary snipe at JJ, typical Choda, it was thanks to JJ that we got Campell's goal.

[Indianspur]

i would have taken a draw tbh today so a loss isnt a gr8 surprise! at least the scum lost.
Very poor display i thought all our creative outlet had gone with hudd and modric off at half time. i know hudd was poor but maybe in the second half he would have played better! Should take zokora off first always as we wont create much with him and he's only worth keeping on if we need to defend a lead.
still we have a good run in and i'd start with bentley and lennon on each wing and maybe play 4-4-2 again with fc and pav deserving a start!

[wayne wonder]

New keeper asap please!! we cant keep on defending this clown

[choda]

Un necessary snipe at JJ, typical Choda, it was thanks to JJ that we got Campell's goal.

I'm not interested in what a central midfielder does in the final third if he loses cm for the rest of the game, completely uninterested. He can score ten goals in ten games and play like he did today and we will lose most of those games. Show some understanding please.

[TURKISH]

New keeper asap please!! we cant keep on defending this clown

Yer fair play to the guy he did make a world class save from bullard but cost us the game. Once he let the ball go past him for there first there was no way back.

We didn't start well at all and fulham deserved win.

[TURKISH]

I'm not interested in what a central midfielder does in the final third if he loses it for the rest of the game, completely uninterested. He can score ten goals in ten games and play like he did today at his real job and we will lose most of those games. Show some understanding please.

Whole team was woeful mate. Lets not play the jj card, bale, woody, gomes, bent all played shite. We lost ever battle today.

[choda]

Whole team was woeful mate. Lets not play the jj card, bale, woody, gomes, bent all played shite. We lost ever battle today.

The JJ 'card' is the most relevant one, not just because he was the worst but also because it is something that happens again and again and again.

Please play Corluka in there, he has to be better than these clowns. Corluka and O'Hara in there. There's no way you'd get outplayed and outfought as often and as badly as we do with them.

Then buy Diarra or somebody in January.

[wayne wonder]

Yer fair play to the guy he did make a world class save from bullard but cost us the game. Once he let the ball go past him for there first there was no way back.

We didn't start well at all and fulham deserved win.

He makes a world class save after he ****s up for the 50th time!! makes the defence very edgy!! Caeser's not the answer either jan cant come quick enough.

Im sick of people saying oh its because he's injured f*ck is he if that was the case he wouldnt be playing!!

And people need to realise hudds isnt the answer we slag off jj (me mostly) but he's way better than hudds who just gets on my tits!!

But hey maybe thats what we needed they got too big for their boots roll on next wk COYS!!!

[peterc]

I'm not interested in what a central midfielder does in the final third if he loses it for the rest of the game, completely uninterested. He can score ten goals in ten games and play like he did today at his real job and we will lose most of those games. Show some understanding please.

You are talking a load of tosh, JJ was not at his best and neither were many others, however he covered that pitch throughout the full ninety three minutes, he managed to regain possession a few times and he was not entirely responsibile for our midfied's poor performance throughout the second half. You just slag the guy off just for the sake of it, and that annoys me and I'm sure many others. Understanding, I think you need to try and understand and stop having a pop at a player just because you dislike him, try and put some blame on your so called "one of the best keepers in the world", that might help.:cursing:

[wayne wonder]

The JJ 'card' is the most relevant one, not just because he was the worst but also because it is something that happens again and again and again.

Please play Corluka in there, he has to be better than these clowns. Corluka and O'Hara in there. There's no way you'd get outplayed and outfought as often and as badly as we do with them.

Then buy Diarra or somebody in January.

O'hara's not the best mate! in fct the whole midfield is poor hence why we get over run many a game!!

[choda]

He makes a world class save after he ****s up for the 50th time!! makes the defence very edgy!! Caeser's not the answer either jan cant come quick enough.

Im sick of people saying oh its because he's injured f*ck is he if that was the case he wouldnt be playing!!

And people need to realise hudds isnt the answer we slag off jj (me mostly) but he's way better than hudds who just gets on my tits!!

But hey maybe thats what we needed they got too big for their boots roll on next wk COYS!!!

They are equally shit if you ask me. It's like one is only good when he doesn't have to run to get some control and is given the space afforded to a centre half to use his ability, basically because he is a centre half, and the other is a nothing player until he gets into the final third, because he is basically a striker. Now how good Hudd would be at centre half and how good JJ would be up front is another question but overall they are shit in midfield, despite the odd moments of brilliance.

As for the keeper, he is injured mate, and the horrible form started after the rib injury. They need to stop injecting him with shit and let him recover and he needs to stop insisting he can play when he can't.

It may not be the injury but may also very likely be that as he was one of our best players before that and is a PSV legend.

I still like him, feel sorry for him. I think he has massive potential but I also realise he has to be dropped and find out why this has happened. I think it started with the injury.

[choda]

You are talking a load of tosh, JJ was not at his best and neither were many others, however he covered that pitch throughout the full ninety three minutes, he managed to regain possession a few times and he was not entirely responsibile for our midfied's poor performance throughout the second half. You just slag the guy off just for the sake of it, and that annoys me and I'm sure many others. Understanding, I think you need to try and understand and stop having a pop at a player just because you dislike him, try and put some blame on your so called "one of the best keepers in the world", that might help.:cursing:

I'm also blaming Zokora but he made some sliver of an impression on general play.

And Gomes was rated one of the best in the world when we signed him, but I didn't scout or sign him so calm down a bit.

He was responsible for Ajax fans rejoicing when he left, had a clean sheet record in Holland/Europe, almost single handedly got them to the cl semi-final and knocked spurs out of europe last year when he somehow got to Mal's volley careering towards the top corner.

It hasn't worked out for him here so far, these things can happen, it's not about predicting, commentators have no control over what they predict as an outcome.

Even the people that sign players have to be cut some slack, 2 out of 5 will not turn out as hoped as a rule almost and that is when the manager made the right moves and gave them all the help and good coaching they needed.

And he could still do well if they will just rest him when he is injured!

[choda]

O'hara's not the best mate! in fct the whole midfield is poor hence why we get over run many a game!!

Well at least he won't go missing and have Bullard walk all over him. He'd stand up, put in some tackles and try to get his foot on the ball.

That's what Jimmy does, he knows how to play the position. Even an old Murphy has some idea on how to influence the game and not get totally outplayed so often.

[Shelfside]

Having paid around £50 for a ticket to watch that game,believe me lads,it looked even worse in the flesh than on your streams.Fulham always looked like they were going to win.Corluka was solid again,as were one or two others,but JJ,Zokora,Bentley and Modric were poor.Modric can be excused an off game because of his recent good form,but how many more times can we say that JJ and Zokora are useless?.They were bossed around by the Fulham midfield.Lennon tried his best in the second half,but for me,Bentley is still the main disappointment.Although some say that Lennon's crossing is poor,I still think that Bentley is worse.The way that Bale is playing at the moment,I don't think that we need worry about Man Utd putting a bid in for him.
Gomes is a real worry.As this game showed,he is capable of world-class saves and world-class fcuk ups.His mistakes have cost us points and we cannot afford to throw points away with silly mistakes.I don't buy Choda's argument about his injury being to blame.Redknapp will have to make a decision ASAP.
With the benefit of hindsight,we were lucky against Arsenal,Liverpool and Man City.Maybe now,our luck has run out.The honeymoon period is over.It really is time for both Redknapp and the team to show us what they really are made of.

[rodkralik]

All I can say is that elvish prophecy isn't what it used to be. Next week - dwarf rune casting.

[choda]

Having paid around £50 for a ticket to watch that game,believe me lads,it looked even worse in the flesh than on your streams.Fulham always looked like they were going to win.Corluka was solid again,as were one or two others,but JJ,Zokora,Bentley and Modric were poor.Modric can be excused an off game because of his recent good form,but how many more times can we say that JJ and Zokora are useless?.They were bossed around by the Fulham midfield.Lennon tried his best in the second half,but for me,Bentley is still the main disappointment.Although some say that Lennon's crossing is poor,I still think that Bentley is worse.The way that Bale is playing at the moment,I don't think that we need worry about Man Utd putting a bid in for him.
Gomes is a real worry.As this game showed,he is capable of world-class saves and world-class fcuk ups.His mistakes have cost us points and we cannot afford to throw points away with silly mistakes.I don't buy Choda's argument about his injury being to blame.Redknapp will have to make a decision ASAP.
With the benefit of hindsight,we were lucky against Arsenal,Liverpool and Man City.Maybe now,our luck has run out.The honeymoon period is over.It really is time for both Redknapp and the team to show us what they really are made of.

It's not my argument mate, it's just an observation and a possible cause. A cracked rib is a serious injury and he couldn't close his mouth yesterday. Of course that can effect performance. He DID do well before the injuries. It has to be considered in looking at the situation and making the best decisions.

I am also advocating he is dropped, but I just think we need to calm down a bit and give him more time. On Motd last night they were noticably far more balanced in talking about him than previously and they didn't even mention the injuries he is carrying.

But at least they were more measured. We don't want to be rash, as he has big potential and a big rep. However, as Linekar said, there does come a time when you have to say enough is enough.

I think he needs a rest and recovery, regroup himself, work on things and so on. If it doesn't improve then he has to go, simple as that.

[TURKISH]

Harry tactics were wrong for me we didn't have a left wing out let at all in the first half and an out of form bale was left to defend on his own and attack.

We need a left back move bale left wing for me. Modric should of played more central without thinking to about tracking back down the left. Bentley, bale, hutton are all suffering at the moment as well as gomes.

We are far from out of this relagtion scrap. Now we will know how good of a gaffer Harry is.

[Shelfside]

It's not my argument mate, it's just an observation and a possible cause. A cracked rib is a serious injury and he couldn't close his mouth yesterday. Of course that can effect performance. He DID do well before the injuries. It has to be considered in looking at the situation and making the best decisions.

I am also advocating he is dropped, but I just think we need to calm down a bit and give him more time. On Motd last night they were noticably far more balanced in talking about him than previously and they didn't even mention the injuries he is carrying.

But at least they were more measured. We don't want to be rash, as he has big potential and a big rep. However, as Linekar said, there does come a time when you have to say enough is enough.

I think he needs a rest and recovery, regroup himself, work on things and so on. If it doesn't improve then he has to go, simple as that.

Ok,fair points there Choda.In fairness,I think we should mention Ray Clemence and Erik Thorsdvet,both of whom came through poor early form and mistakes to provide a number of top quality performances during their Tottenham careers.
Gomes earned a very good reputation at PSV and you obviously don't become a bad keeper overnight.As Robinson proved,a decline takes a bit longer than that.As has been said by Choda and others,Gomes does need to be dropped.If it really is his injuries that are to blame,then leave him out until he is fully recovered,because as was also said on MOTD,other teams will see him as a liability and corners in particular are where the opposition will target him.

[peterc]

Ok,fair points there Choda.In fairness,I think we should mention Ray Clemence and Erik Thorsdvet,both of whom came through poor early form and mistakes to provide a number of top quality performances during their Tottenham careers.
Gomes earned a very good reputation at PSV and you obviously don't become a bad keeper overnight.As Robinson proved,a decline takes a bit longer than that.As has been said by Choda and others,Gomes does need to be dropped.If it really is his injuries that are to blame,then leave him out until he is fully recovered,because as was also said on MOTD,other teams will see him as a liability and corners in particular are where the opposition will target him.

From what I hear Cesar is not that brilliant either.:sad:

[choda]

From what I hear Cesar is not that brilliant either.:sad:

He can't be any good, reading between the lines of what Harry thinks. He is saying he has no real choice but to play Gomes, even when he has injuries.

[Apples]

I'm not interested in what a central midfielder does in the final third if he loses cm for the rest of the game, completely uninterested. He can score ten goals in ten games and play like he did today and we will lose most of those games. Show some understanding please.

Spot on

PeterC give it rest you don't know what you're talking about

[Apples]

O'hara's not the best mate! in fct the whole midfield is poor hence why we get over run many a game!!

To be fair he never said O'hara is the best but ffs

Zokora And Jenas are useless and they have been for to fecking long

I h8 them both in the middle

[peterc]

Spot on

PeterC give it rest you don't know what you're talking about

So, according to you JJ, should control the midfield and not go forward and assist, he is best at helping a counter attack as per the only goal scored yesterday thanks to JJ's strong push forward.

[Apples]

So, according to you JJ, should control the midfield and not go forward and assist, he is best at helping a counter attack as per the only goal scored yesterday thanks to JJ's strong push forward.

According to me, one good thing when he's missing for the rest of the game is not GOOD ENOUGH!

How can you say that it is good enough for him to do that and nothing else???????????????

People like you do my head in!!!!!!!!

[mjbmedia]

Bale started, nuff said!

it cant be coincidence

[peterc]

[QUOTE=Apples;113774]According to me, one good thing when he's missing for the rest of the game is not GOOD ENOUGH!

How can you say that it is good enough for him to do that and nothing else???????????????

People like you do my head in!!!!!!!!

AND PEOPLE LIKE YOU NEED TO HAVE YOUR EYES TESTED!!!!!!!!, JJ was all over the pitch for the whole ninety three minutes and you come and say that he did nothing else, he won tackles and a few times possession, there are another ten players besiides JJ, just in case you forgot.:001_rolleyes: :001_rolleyes:

[Apples]

[QUOTE]

AND PEOPLE LIKE YOU NEED TO HAVE YOUR EYES TESTED!!!!!!!!, JJ was all over the pitch for the whole ninety three minutes and you come and say that he did nothing else, he won tackles and a few times possession, there are another ten players besiides JJ, just in case you forgot.:001_rolleyes: :001_rolleyes:

Are you having a laugh!!!!!!!!
Think you need some sense slapped into ya!
How long have you watched Jenas - very good in games against Arsenal and thats it!

He has no presence
He has no power
He has no control

Yeah he has tonnes of ability but without the listed 3 has no effect on our performance and CENTRE MIDFIELDERS ARE THE CENTRE OF THE TEAM

Where is he - he should be involved in everything - he should be everywhere especially when we losing demanding the ball making things happen

But he hides away - PeterC you're clueless - the fact you talking like this confirms what others have said - you're an idiot!

[peterc]

[QUOTE=peterc;113776]

Are you having a laugh!!!!!!!!
Think you need some sense slapped into ya!
How long have you watched Jenas - very good in games against Arsenal and thats it!

He has no presence
He has no power
He has no control

Yeah he has tonnes of ability but without the listed 3 has no effect on our performance and CENTRE MIDFIELDERS ARE THE CENTRE OF THE TEAM

Where is he - he should be involved in everything - he should be everywhere especially when we losing demanding the ball making things happen

But he hides away - PeterC you're clueless - the fact you talking like this confirms what others have said - you're an idiot!

So when you disagree with someome's opinion you resort to name calling, an unfortunate disease that spreads quite fast on this forum, lack of education on you part maybe:sad: . JJ is not the beast midfielder in the premiership, howver, he is the best one we have at Spurs, like him or not, that is a fact. Suggedt you watch the game again and then try and put some sense together.

[Apples]

[QUOTE=Apples;113779]

So when you disagree with someome's opinion you resort to name calling, an unfortunate disease that spreads quite fast on this forum, lack of education on you part maybe:sad: . JJ is not the beast midfielder in the premiesrship, howver, he is the best one we have at Spurs, like him or not, that is a fact.

Yeah, good one Peter think someone's own education needs to be looked at considering the amount of spelling mistake in your own post!

Name calling hardly - man up you little girl! lol

[peterc]

[QUOTE=peterc;113781]

Yeah, good one Peter think someone's own education needs to be looked at considering the amount of spelling mistake in your own post!

Name calling hardly - man up you little girl! lol

Considering that English language is my second language, I am quite amazed to see that I can spell better than those who happen to have English and their main language. Apples, grow up. BTW, if you want to have a banter, pm me.

[Apples]

[QUOTE=Apples;113783]

Considering that English language is my second language, I am quite ammazed to see that I can spell better than those who happen to have English and their main language. Apples, grow up. BTW, if you want to have a banter, pm me.

Fair play...

[olly27]

I was not surprised after hearing the result and it was only going to be a matter of time, before Gomes' clangers cost us points.

To be fair Fulham deserved it, Harry's challenge now is to get a response from the team.

[Gino Ginelli]

Once again, our players (midfielders mostly) are capable of the same levels of complaceny we fans are. We're on an amazing run of form, playing some really good stuff, so naturally confidence is sky high! But we're not winning because of confidence and belief alone. We've been working really bloody hard and playing some really good football (as well as riding our luck a bit as well).

But today felt like an almost inevitable return of the complacent attitude of the latter third of last season. The bite had gone, the agressive and free flowing attacking was absent. Fulham really came at us, and as everyone points out, made our midfield look like muppets (again). But nevertheless, we still coped well with them.

But what's the point in all the endeavour if the keeper is the sole reason that we concede any goals?? I'm sorry, but even considering his reputation and undoubted shot stopping ability, his focus and confidence is decimated right now. He needs dropping to sort his form out. I wasn't aware of the extent of his injury, but if it is bad, then why is he playing?!

Dissapointing, but then Fulham are a force at home this season, and Bullard is a top player. A ray of light is Frasier Campbell's form. Tidy accurate finish from him, and a good lay off from Bentley.

The midfield debate is barely worth my attention anymore. Everyone knows my frustration of JJ, that Hudd has an Iraqi SCUD of a right boot and that's it, and that Zok is little more than a waste of hyperactive blood and organs in the Premiership. Oh and Bale needs to be a LW.

[TURKISH]

I still don't know what harry's formation was during that game. We had no left winger and mod wasn't behind bent at all.

Harry needs to play bale left wing with gunter at left back.

[Dansire]

No stock goes up forever. Just take a look at any FTSE counter. But at bottom 2nd, we'd better get a rebound sooner, not later. May the force be with us, this sunday at the lane! Bless Harry!

[Rojoknapp]

[QUOTE=peterc;113776]

Are you having a laugh!!!!!!!!
Think you need some sense slapped into ya!
How long have you watched Jenas - very good in games against Arsenal and thats it!

He has no presence
He has no power
He has no control

Yeah he has tonnes of ability but without the listed 3 has no effect on our performance and CENTRE MIDFIELDERS ARE THE CENTRE OF THE TEAM

Where is he - he should be involved in everything - he should be everywhere especially when we losing demanding the ball making things happen

But he hides away - PeterC you're clueless - the fact you talking like this confirms what others have said - you're an idiot!

Whatever you think of JJ, he can't be accused of hiding, he never hides. He ALWAYS is dropping off from midfield looking for the ball, looking over his shoulder, receiving the ball and then moving it on. JJ is the best at that in our team, for getting the ball of defenders and building an attack.

[choda]

Whatever you think of JJ, he can't be accused of hiding, he never hides. He ALWAYS is dropping off from midfield looking for the ball, looking over his shoulder, receiving the ball and then moving it on. JJ is the best at that in our team, for getting the ball of defenders and building an attack.

One wonders what the hell you are watching. He's one of the least effective and couragous footballers I've ever seen in relation to his natural ability. His mental strength is very weak, I think that is clear to everyone. You can always rely on JJ to freeze up at crucial times or go missing entirely when he should be trying to exert some control over the game.

Anyone can come back and lay it off sideways or play piggy in the middle when you don't have it, it's the responsibility for taking control of the game, making key interceptions and creative build up that is missing.

He only comes alive in the final third, which is not enough by a mile. That's only a bonus after you do your real job well.

[Rojoknapp]

One wonders what the hell you are watching. He's one of the least effective and couragous footballers I've ever seen in relation to his natural ability. His mental strength is very weak, I think that is clear to everyone. You can always rely on JJ to freeze up at crucial times or go missing entirely when he should be trying to exert some control over the game.

Anyone can come back and lay it off sideways or play piggy in the middle when you don't have it, it's the responsibility for taking control of the game, making key interceptions and creative build up that is missing.

He only comes alive in the final third, which is not enough by a mile. That's only a bonus after you do your real job well.

Did i not say: "whatever you think of JJ... he ALWAYS is dropping off from midfield"

I think i did, specifically so that no one would just bang on about how bad they think he is, alas.....

Even when we are losing, or doing badly, he can always be seen looking for the ball. I don't know how many spurs games you get to, obviously because of living in Ireland, but it's much easier to see at WHL than on tv, because you can see him all the time, and he always wants the ball. When we play blackburn, why don't you just watch him for about 5 minutes, and you'll see what I mean.

[rodkralik]

Fascinating. That various individuals can both look at the same player, and come to entirely different opinions about him. Sometimes I wish Jung had been into football rather than alchemy.

[rodkralik]

Oh, and rojoknapp makes a good point about judging a player after only having watched them on t.v.. I hope choda responds after the Blackburn game.

[olly27]

[QUOTE=Apples;113779]

Whatever you think of JJ, he can't be accused of hiding, he never hides. He ALWAYS is dropping off from midfield looking for the ball, looking over his shoulder, receiving the ball and then moving it on. JJ is the best at that in our team, for getting the ball of defenders and building an attack.

Totally disagree, infact I have never disagreed with such a statement on this forum until now!!!! He constantly goes missing and ghosts certain games frequently, thats the whole problem with JJ. Sometimes I have actually wondered where the hell is he on the pitch and that includes games at WHL.

One good game in 5 is not enough from someone who commands (or suppose to should I say) such an influential position on the pitch. He has never produced consistent performances, only spells and flashes of good play.

[TURKISH]

These jj arguments do get ever so tiring, especially after every game we lose he gets blamed even though the whole team don't perform.

I must say people who think jj doesn't drop deep for the ball to link up play and allways moves into space to look for the ball is lying. Ive seen it countless times when im at the lane.

[olly27]

He does drop deep to get the ball and then attempt to link play up, successfully or unsuccessfully, that doesnt mean he ever grabs a game by the scruff and sets a real tempo for the game. I haven't seen him do that to often. For me its definitely a mental thing with JJ as he has the talent, but never really can impose himself enough - thats my opinion on it.

[TURKISH]

He does drop deep to get the ball and then attempt to link play up, successfully or unsuccessfully, that doesnt mean he ever grabs a game by the scruff and sets a real tempo for the game. I haven't seen him do that to often. For me its definitely a mental thing with JJ as he has the talent, but never really can impose himself enough - thats my opinion on it.

It isn't a mental thing its because we have a weak team who all are inconsistent. The team is 2nd bottom for a reason and its not to do with one man and his weak mentality. To win a midfield battle you need a good team behind you and a good midfield partner..has jj got that? Who is gonna win the ball for him? Who is gonna link up play for him? We haven't got a more complete midfield player in jj and i for one would look forward to seeing him in a strong midfield.

Last time we had a strong midfield..lennon...carrick..jj...davids. We haven't got a midfield close to that.

Imo you guys shouldn't question jj mentality you should question the whole teams.

[olly27]

It isn't a mental thing its because we have a weak team who all are inconsistent. The team is 2nd bottom for a reason and its not to do with one man and his weak mentality. To win a midfield battle you need a good team behind you and a good midfield partner..has jj got that? Who is gonna win the ball for him? Who is gonna link up play for him? We haven't got a more complete midfield player in jj and i for one would look forward to seeing him in a strong midfield.

Last time we had a strong midfield..lennon...carrick..jj...davids. We haven't got a midfield close to that.

Imo you guys shouldn't question jj mentality you should question the whole teams.

Where did I say it was all down to him? However I did say he does command one of the most important positions on the pitch. Yes its a team problem, but sometimes you have to look at the compents of the team in order to identify problems. I do agree with you though regarding the mentality of the whole team though. I am judging JJ on his whole career at Spurs not just this season.
Of course Zokora aint good enough and he wouldn't help any midfield combination but the fact that Jenas causes such polarisation in opinion suggests that a lot of fans see his limitations regularly. Are you saying all the Jenas detractors(which is about half of the lane!) are blind?:001_smile: Personally I think the other half are blind!...:001_smile: All in good humour mate, but in my opinion he doesn't realise his potential and thats why I think its a mental thing with him. He really is an egnima.

[TURKISH]

Where did I say it was all down to him? However I did say he does command one of the most important positions on the pitch. Yes its a team problem, but sometimes you have to look at the compents of the team in order to identify problems. I do agree with you though regarding the mentality of the whole team though. I am judging JJ on his whole career at Spurs not just this season.
Of course Zokora aint good enough and he wouldn't help any midfield combination but the fact that Jenas causes such polarisation in opinion suggests that a lot of fans see his limitations regularly. Are you saying all the Jenas detractors(which is about half of the lane!) are blind?:001_smile: Personally I think the other half are blind!...:001_smile: All in good humour mate, but in my opinion he doesn't realise his potential and thats why I think its a mental thing with him. He really is an egnima.


If you don't think its all down to him than pull up the other players who haven't played well.

I don't agree with peoples views on him being limited, i also don't agree with most of the tottenham fans. When im on the train home the amount of fans who talk utter garbage is there to hear.

JJ is a target who will allways be slagged off by the spurs fans, rightly or wrongly its just like emile heskey, how can people not rate emile?

The question im raising is why should jj mentality be questioned when he is playing in a joke of a team, a team that changes personel every game/season, has no spine, no left winger, no dm and a team that lacks leadership.

I don't care if people don't rate jj but to keep slagging him off and singling him out after every poor performance gets annoying. Especially when the whole team played just as bad.

Fans tend not to want to see hard work, tracking back, interceptions, tackles won, wanting the ball. Most fans are blinded by beer and only remember what they want to remember. The type of people who would give a motm to a player who scored a goal but played rubbish the whole game. Im not saying thats you ollie pal you have cinstructive critisism, not just jj is shit and thats it.

I just want some consistency why haven't people questioned bales performances? Or woodgates? Kings? Hudds? Bentleys?

We haven't had consistency since carrick, davids was here and im hoping the whole team improves because jj is the last player im worried about come saturdays.

[olly27]

I don't agree with peoples views on him being limited, i also don't agree with most of the tottenham fans. When im on the train home the amount of fans who talk utter garbage is there to hear.

JJ is a target who will allways be slagged off by the spurs fans, rightly or wrongly its just like emile heskey, how can people not rate emile?

The question im raising is why should jj mentality be questioned when he is playing in a joke of a team, a team that changes personel every game/season, has no spine, no left winger, no dm and a team that lacks leadership.

I don't care if people don't rate jj but to keep slagging him off and singling him out after every poor performance gets annoying. Especially when the whole team played just as bad.

Fans tend not to want to see hard work, tracking back, interceptions, tackles won, wanting the ball. Most fans are blinded by beer and only remember what they want to remember. The type of people who would give a motm to a player who scored a goal but played rubbish the whole game. Im not saying thats you ollie pal you have cinstructive critisism, not just jj is shit and thats it.

I just want some consistency why haven't people questioned bales performances? Or woodgates? Kings? Hudds? Bentleys?

We haven't had consistency since carrick, davids was here and im hoping the whole team improves because jj is the last player im worried about come saturdays.

I for one dont think he's rubbish at all, I would just like to see more from him on a consistent basis thats all. I would like to feel, after watching a game that he really stamped his authority on it, I have never felt like that. He does have tremondous workrate and those things dont go unnoticed - at least from me, but I am talking about the ability to really influence a game from the centre of the park - to dictate and control things without getting overrun.

Totally agree about the other players underperforming and yes sometimes people do jump on the bandwagon regarding JJ after a defeat. My latest comments had nothing to do with the Fulham result I can assure you of that, I only saw the goals. I was really looking at JJ throughout his time at Spurs.

I am not slagging him off, far from it, I am just offering my thoughts on a player and his performances. I would just love to see him really impose himself in games, I know he gets about but I would love him to grab a game by the scruff and dictate it.........:001_smile:

[TURKISH]

I for one dont think he's rubbish at all, I would just like to see more from him on a consistent basis thats all. I would like to feel, after watching a game that he really stamped his authority on it, I have never felt like that. He does have tremondous workrate and those things dont go unnoticed - at least from me, but I am talking about the ability to really influence a game from the centre of the park - to dictate and control things without getting overrun.

Totally agree about the other players underperforming and yes sometimes people do jump on the bandwagon regarding JJ after a defeat. My latest comments had nothing to do with the Fulham result I can assure you of that, I only saw the goals. I was really looking at JJ throughout his time at Spurs.

I am not slagging him off, far from it, I am just offering my thoughts on a player and his performances. I would just love to see him really impose himself in games, I know he gets about but I would love him to grab a game by the scruff and dictate it.........:001_smile:


I know you aren't just slagging him off after the fulham game but im talking about other people on this site.

I just want consistency from all the players.

[Apples]

I think this is definitely an old topic...where JJ lovers seem to misconstrue what the point actually is...

1) JJ is a very good player worthy of an England squad place when doing what he can do

2) The problem is JJ doesn't do what he can do enough

3) This frustrates most Spurs fans because we need him doing what he can do

4) What happens to him instead? he goes missing and we get overun or spends the game giving SHY balls which he picks up from the defence to play a meaningless pass which doesn't effect our performance!

The basic note on JJ is that we all know he has talent but because he can't express this talent on the field (seems to me that he doesn't have confidence sometimes) he is not good enough to play CM.

Maybe with a much stronger midfield partner that we need too he could start to reach his potential!

[MiloMinderbinder]

Sometimes I think JJ tries too hard and that causes problems in itself. The amount of times you see Zokora or Fat Tom ahead of him is mystifying until you come to the conclusion that JJ takes on both AM and DM roles as required by the situation e.g. Zokora and Hudd going AWOL from their positions, TBF Hudd does it less than Zokora but probably only because he can't get up and down the pitch like Zok. The solution to the problem (if indeed this is the case) is to give distinct roles to the players for example tell Hudd/Zok never to get ahead of Jenas and certainly there job is not to break into the box.

[mjbmedia]

Sometimes I think JJ tries too hard and that causes problems in itself. The amount of times you see Zokora or Fat Tom ahead of him is mystifying until you come to the conclusion that JJ takes on both AM and DM roles as required by the situation e.g. Zokora and Hudd going AWOL from their positions, TBF Hudd does it less than Zokora but probably only because he can't get up and down the pitch like Zok. The solution to the problem (if indeed this is the case) is to give distinct roles to the players for example tell Hudd/Zok never to get ahead of Jenas and certainly there job is not to break into the box.
so what youre saying and what most others seem to miss, is that JJ reads the game and responds accordingly to whatevers going on at the time, as compared to some of our other players who dont so much.

On a separate issue that keeps coming up:-
HE is NOT our AM, **** knows what dickhead on here ever started that freakin notion off, some retarded numbskull prick no doubt, just cos he is normally our top midfield scorer, doesnt mean hes our AM (or is it cos FM08 shows him as an AM so it must be true :001_rolleyes: ).
Hes a midfielder meaning he plays in midfield, Midfield covers from back to front and left to right, just where JJ is often found, ie everywhere.

Can he do more than he does, yes certainly on a consistent basis he can but we rarely have full control of a game to allow him to, as opposed to Lampard and Gerrard who play often in teams who do have control (when Liverpool dont have control does Gerrard have a blinder? no ,is he ever MOM V the other top 4 teams ? rarely.

[choda]

I agree with the Ollster and the Apple man. I also agree that he gets little in the way of help from his partners, but he's probably like Rio Ferdinand for example in that he is pretty useless himself unless he has a serious player beside him.

And then the talent does come out.

Where as the serious player would look good beside anyone and make anyone look better. Roy Keane made Matt Holland look like a dynamo. Take away Keane and Holland was a pathetic international player.

Jenas has got talent, we all agree with that, but I don't find it acceptable that a player is so weak, much like Rio, that they shrivle and die unless they have a solid as a rock performer and character beside them.

That a very big mental weakness, a complacency, a laziness, a mental fragility or what ever it is and I don't like it one bit.

[choda]

Fascinating. That various individuals can both look at the same player, and come to entirely different opinions about him. Sometimes I wish Jung had been into football rather than alchemy.

I bet you wrote that while sipping a chianti, stroking your cat and listening to Beethoven. :biggrin:

[TURKISH]

I agree with the Ollster and the Apple man. I also agree that he gets little in the way of help from his partners, but he's probably like Rio Ferdinand for example in that he is pretty useless himself unless he has a serious player beside him.

And then the talent does come out.

Where as the serious player would look good beside anyone and make anyone look better. Roy Keane made Matt Holland look like a dynamo. Take away Keane and Holland was a pathetic international player.

Jenas has got talent, we all agree with that, but I don't find it acceptable that a player is so weak, much like Rio, that they shrivle and die unless they have a solid as a rock performer and character beside them.

That a very big mental weakness, a complacency, a laziness, a mental fragility or what ever it is and I don't like it one bit.


Rio useless? Ive not heard that one before pal.

[Rojoknapp]

Rio useless? Ive not heard that one before pal.

funny.... neither have I.... I wonder why? It seems that choda is on to something that the rest of the football world (including Alex Ferguson and Fabio Capello) has missed!

[choda]

Rio useless? Ive not heard that one before pal.

Really? It was a common theme in the Silvestre Ferdinand days. I used to stick up for him saying he would be great with a solid player, that he reads the game brilliantly. Everyone I used to talk too would disagree with me saying he was the shittest most overated player in the world.

[MiloMinderbinder]

funny.... neither have I.... I wonder why? It seems that choda is on to something that the rest of the football world (including Alex Ferguson and Fabio Capello) has missed!

Are you mental? Is that your problem? Until about two season Rio was known as "the clown" by more than a few who knew what they were talking about. It's only been since he's played with Vidic he's become excellent. Don't even get me started on Terry, shite defender bailed out time and time again by playing with Carvalho, although when he plays for England you realyl get to see how limited (for limited read shite) he is.

[MiloMinderbinder]

so what youre saying and what most others seem to miss, is that JJ reads the game and responds accordingly to whatevers going on at the time, as compared to some of our other players who dont so much.

On a separate issue that keeps coming up:-
HE is NOT our AM, **** knows what dickhead on here ever started that freakin notion off, some retarded numbskull prick no doubt, just cos he is normally our top midfield scorer, doesnt mean hes our AM (or is it cos FM08 shows him as an AM so it must be true :001_rolleyes: ).
Hes a midfielder meaning he plays in midfield, Midfield covers from back to front and left to right, just where JJ is often found, ie everywhere.

Can he do more than he does, yes certainly on a consistent basis he can but we rarely have full control of a game to allow him to, as opposed to Lampard and Gerrard who play often in teams who do have control (when Liverpool dont have control does Gerrard have a blinder? no ,is he ever MOM V the other top 4 teams ? rarely.

Your best post yet, take it home, frame it and gaze lovingly at it every evening :001_smile:

[mjbmedia]

Your best post yet, take it home, frame it and gaze lovingly at it every evening :001_smile:
'er indoors would get jealous

[jrio]

funny.... neither have I.... I wonder why? It seems that choda is on to something that the rest of the football world (including Alex Ferguson and Fabio Capello) has missed!
There used to be issues over his concentration during games.

[Rojoknapp]

Are you mental? Is that your problem? Until about two season Rio was known as "the clown" by more than a few who knew what they were talking about. It's only been since he's played with Vidic he's become excellent. Don't even get me started on Terry, shite defender bailed out time and time again by playing with Carvalho, although when he plays for England you realyl get to see how limited (for limited read shite) he is.

So basically if we signed rio ferdinand, and woodgate and king were unavailable, we would be totally f*cked because he would have to play with dawson, who is nowhere near as good as Vidic? Right.......

[Rojoknapp]

There used to be issues over his concentration during games.

I have heard that, but choda called him useless, which is entirely different and also entirely untrue.

[MiloMinderbinder]

So basically if we signed rio ferdinand, and woodgate and king were unavailable, we would be totally f*cked because he would have to play with dawson, who is nowhere near as good as Vidic? Right.......

No because he seems to have ironed out his issues (on the pitch anyway, he's still a royal **** off the pitch). However, if we signed Rio it would be at the end of his carrer and he'd be shit anyway.

[choda]

I have heard that, but choda called him useless, which is entirely different and also entirely untrue.

I also said I used to stand up for him, can you not see the finer points of the post? To all extents for an England international and Manchester United centre half he was useless for a while. At the very least he was ordinary for quite a while at United. I could see the talent but is talent alone acceptable when you are earning 100,000 a week and not able to play well unless you have a stalwart beside you.

But I did point out that he was a wonderful player when he had all the conditions he needed. My point is that the seriously good players don't need conditions, they create them, at least in their position.

Maradona could create conditions throughout any team it seemed, as a player.