The league table proves we only have 4 quality teams

[gomessi]

Do you agree with me. Look at the table for yourself. Its ridiculous how tight it is. We have had the worst start in our history and yet we are only 4 points off a potentail uefa cup place.

The media are loving teams like hull but they wont be there for long, stoke and west brom are in the middle of a very tight group and man city are only 4 points ahead of us. That tells you the lack of quality there is at the moment.

Look at the goal difference of the chelsea :scared: +23

Arsenal are getting the piss taken out of them and they are stlll in the top 4 despite a number of weaknesses.

Its actually very worrying how dominant the top 4 are becoming. Villa dont have a chance of making it. That is after holding onto barry who might leave for a top 4 club in the summer. :scared:

So what do you think should be done, if anything. The top 4 as it stands could be the same for the next 10 ****ing years:angry:

[olly27]

I reckon we could have a right could go at it next season, particularly if we dont have UEFA destratctions.

But yes the the top 4 will be the top 4 in a nutshell.

[JuicE]

I think it's more of a mental thing than anything else.

Most teams are already beat before the kick off against the top 4 and that helps them infinitely. Reputation mixed with belief is a major factor.

Too many teams roll over and how many times do you hear managers or captains say that they were happy to get a point? None of the top 4 teams say that.

Of course the money and the attraction of CL helps alot but it runs deeper than that. We spent 175 Million quid and still don't have a good team! :cursing:

[MiloMinderbinder]

Top four finish = self fulfilling prophecy. More money, better players, better players, higher finish, more money, better players etc etc etc ad infinitum.

the only way to stop this cycle is for a reasonably big club, e.g. Spurs or Villa, to obtain an extremely wealthy benefactor who would be willing to subsidise the club, given the economic times I can't see this happening (unless there's another Oligarch out there in need of effective diplomatic immunity).

Sadly, the genuine competition in the English game has gone the way of the Scottish league. I doubt it will alter during the next few years, barring a financial meltdown of the games biggest clubs.

[MiloMinderbinder]

IOf course the money and the attraction of CL helps alot but it runs deeper than that. We spent 175 Million quid and still don't have a good team! :cursing:

There's a vast difference between net and gross transfer spending. If I recall correctly the "real" amount we've spent on the squad over the last few years is impresively low.

[olly27]

There's a vast difference between net and gross transfer spending. If I recall correctly the "real" amount we've spent on the squad over the last few years is impresively low.

Well we recouped about 80 million over summer while spending 70 or so, and factoring in Woodgate, Hutton etc is offset by Defoe's sale too. Its bound to be pretty low.

[MiloMinderbinder]

Well we recouped about 80 million over summer while spending 70 or so, and factoring in Woodgate, Hutton etc is offset by Defoe's sale too. Its bound to be pretty low.

Prezactly. Anyway, transfer spending is not the real factor. It's actually the wage bill. Quite simply the sort of wage bills at Man U and Arsenal would be unsustainable without regular CL football, I believe that the Scums' wage bill is approx double ours. Which brings us back to the viscous cycle/self fulfilling prophecy point.

[gomessi]

I think it's more of a mental thing than anything else.

Most teams are already beat before the kick off against the top 4 and that helps them infinitely. Reputation mixed with belief is a major factor.

Too many teams roll over and how many times do you hear managers or captains say that they were happy to get a point? None of the top 4 teams say that.

Of course the money and the attraction of CL helps alot but it runs deeper than that. We spent 175 Million quid and still don't have a good team! :cursing:

they have better players, nothing to do with belief. We had zok and hudd against gerrard, masch and alonso. Suprise suprise lpool totally domiated.

Also the wage budget is a lot bigger. The sum had a £90m wage bill last year ours was £43m.

[olly27]

Prezactly. Anyway, transfer spending is not the real factor. It's actually the wage bill. Quite simply the sort of wage bills at Man U and Arsenal would be unsustainable without regular CL football, I believe that the Scums' wage bill is approx double ours. Which brings us back to the viscous cycle/self fulfilling prophecy point.

Totally agree mate.

[Shuggie13]

Both the Scum and ourselves lost against Hull and Stoke this season. Let's not forget they also got beat by Fulham. Sometimes the table makes no sense at all.

Chelski will absolutely run away with it this season with Man U chasing them for the rest of the season. Liverpool and The Scum will drop away and maybe, just maybe Villa might sneak 4th.

There has always been the notion that in the PL anyone can win a match however this season it has gone completely against the script. The wrong (perceived teams) have been nabbing points especially two of the promoted sides in Hull & Stoke.

Had any one of Citeh, Blackburn, Everton or ourselves had a more consistent open 11 games the Scums top four place would already been in jeopardy.

[gomessi]

Both the Scum and ourselves lost against Hull and Stoke this season. Let's not forget they also got beat by Fulham. Sometimes the table makes no sense at all.

Chelski will absolutely run away with it this season with Man U chasing them for the rest of the season. Liverpool and The Scum will drop away and maybe, just maybe Villa might sneak 4th.

There has always been the notion that in the PL anyone can win a match however this season it has gone completely against the script. The wrong (perceived teams) have been nabbing points especially two of the promoted sides in Hull & Stoke.

Had any one of Citeh, Blackburn, Everton or ourselves had a more consistent open 11 games the Scums top four place would already been in jeopardy.

that is the point though. None of these sides have the ability over the course of a season to get into the top 4.

You will need a minimum of 70 points. No idea why you think teams like everton (who didnt strengthen in the summer) and blackburn (who people tipped for a relegation battle) could get into the top 4.

[Baleinho]

In all honesty I genuinely think Arsenal are in the brown stuff atm. Its going to be a 3 horse race- with 4th down to 6/7th fighting it out till the end.

I dont usually agree with Hansen but what he said on MOTD about Arsenal was apsolutely right. There turning back into the team they were a few seasons back; where they would go to the physical teams (Bolton/ Blackburn etc) and come away with nothing. They have NO leader and NO defencive midfielder who can clean up whatever shitty mess their defence puts them in. Quite frankly; this is brilliant stuff. Gives the Europe contenders really something to think about.

Having said that Villa blew it again; didnt show up against Newcastle and really should of punished them.

We might be bottom; but looking at the table- we win against citeh and providing other results go our way; we are out of the shit for the time being, with teams like Fulham and Blackburn coming shortly aswell.

If we survive until Jan with a confident team thats at least 11th; we have a fighting chance of Europe this season. If we do it, im sure Harry will ensure GOD like status around WHL

[gomessi]

In all honesty I genuinely think Arsenal are in the brown stuff atm. Its going to be a 3 horse race- with 4th down to 6/7th fighting it out till the end.

I dont usually agree with Hansen but what he said on MOTD about Arsenal was apsolutely right. There turning back into the team they were a few seasons back; where they would go to the physical teams (Bolton/ Blackburn etc) and come away with nothing. They have NO leader and NO defencive midfielder who can clean up whatever shitty mess their defence puts them in. Quite frankly; this is brilliant stuff. Gives the Europe contenders really something to think about.

Having said that Villa blew it again; didnt show up against Newcastle and really should of punished them.

We might be bottom; but looking at the table- we win against citeh and providing other results go our way; we are out of the shit for the time being, with teams like Fulham and Blackburn coming shortly aswell.

If we survive until Jan with a confident team thats at least 11th; we have a fighting chance of Europe this season. If we do it, im sure Harry will ensure GOD like status around WHL

Ramos almost had god like status after the cc win beating chelski after beating the scum 5-1.

harry wont be immune from the sack as you seen ti think. I think harry will get this season obviously and next season the board will judge whether he is the man to get us into the top 4. I think he will get the sack at the end of the 09/10 season or the start of the 10/11 season.

The cycle will then start again.

[MiloMinderbinder]

Ramos almost had god like status after the cc win beating chelski after beating the scum 5-1.

harry wont be immune from the sack as you seen ti think. I think harry will get this season obviously and next season the board will judge whether he is the man to get us into the top 4. I think he will get the sack at the end of the 09/10 season or the start of the 10/11 season.

The cycle will then start again.

Harry has been brought in to stop the rot, simple as that. He's almost certainly not a long term option. In point of fact I have seen it mooted that he stands to get a £4mil bonus if we stay up, draw your conclusions from that.

[gomessi]

Harry has been brought in to stop the rot, simple as that. He's almost certainly not a long term option. In point of fact I have seen it mooted that he stands to get a £4mil bonus if we stay up, draw your conclusions from that.

That doesnt fill me with any confidence and just adds to belief that we wont be going anywhere in the league in the short term.

So do you think we should sack harry after the end of season then. I thought he has a 4 year contract.

[MiloMinderbinder]

That doesnt fill me with any confidence and just adds to belief that we wont be going anywhere in the league in the short term.

So do you think we should sack harry after the end of season then. I thought he has a 4 year contract.

Reserving judgement but for the time being hell no, he's got 2 - 4 year left in him I think, enough time to properly identify his successor (can't believe we're discussing who's next after Harry already :blushing: ).

Mourinho anyone?! :scared:

[Shuggie13]

that is the point though. None of these sides have the ability over the course of a season to get into the top 4.

You will need a minimum of 70 points. No idea why you think teams like everton (who didnt strengthen in the summer) and blackburn (who people tipped for a relegation battle) could get into the top 4.

I was reiterating the point. You are assuming that because Everton didn't strengthen at the start of the season that they would have not been in the position to challenge. Using your logic, because Hull and Stoke were promoted naturally they wouldn't beat Arsenal and us this season in a game.

[gomessi]

I was reiterating the point. You are assuming that because Everton didn't strengthen at the start of the season that they would have not been in the position to challenge. Using your logic, because Hull and Stoke were promoted naturally they wouldn't beat Arsenal and us this season in a game.

At the end of the say do you see blackburn or everton over the course of a season getting 70 points. You would get odds od 50/1 for everton and maybe 100/1 for blackburn at the start of the season.

In a single match anything can happen. Hull and stoke got good results against arsenal and us (most teams have this season) but that is what can happen in 90 minutes of football. Over a season the result is as predictable as death is. Sad but true.

At the end of the season it will be the same top 4 even if there are a few suprises along the way regarding arsenals results.

[Baleinho]

I dont know. I can see Harry being long term. It could be a learning curve for him to take a big club and make them bigger. He's learned from his spam days, taken that to Pompey and made them something they werent a few seasons back. Whats to say that he cant get us up there? We've got a management structure that suits him; Levy wouldnt do that unless it was a long term thing....

Id love to see Harry as a long term manager, this club needs stability and having Harry there will help (ignoring the Southampton/ Pompey saga of course lol)

If and I do mean IF we get our entire situation sorted out; why wouldnt you guys want him as a long term manager?

[gomessi]

I dont know. I can see Harry being long term. It could be a learning curve for him to take a big club and make them bigger. He's learned from his spam days, taken that to Pompey and made them something they werent a few seasons back. Whats to say that he cant get us up there? We've got a management structure that suits him; Levy wouldnt do that unless it was a long term thing....

Id love to see Harry as a long term manager, this club needs stability and having Harry there will help (ignoring the Southampton/ Pompey saga of course lol)

If and I do mean IF we get our entire situation sorted out; why wouldnt you guys want him as a long term manager?

If harry gets us into the top 4 or is at least challenging I wouldn't have a problem.

I'm all for giving managers time nut it needs to be the right manager. Harry was recruited to get us out of this mess. Is he the man to challenge the top 4? We will have to wait and see. I personally dont think he is.

[JuicE]

There's a vast difference between net and gross transfer spending. If I recall correctly the "real" amount we've spent on the squad over the last few years is impresively low.

You're missing my point! The point i'm making is that we have bought many players. Not the balance of funds after all the transfers. The fact is that we have spent more money on bringing in all of these supposed future stars and experienced players that have not performed, hence the bottom of the table position.
It's not just as simple as spending money. It's about spending it wisely. Arse have spent alot less but they're still up there. In fact they're in a crisis, which is laughable considering the circumstances. We have just wasted money and missed the opportunity.

[TURKISH]

Ive heard we have more points at this stage of the season than last year.

[Baleinho]

Shoot me if you will; but I genuinely think that Harry's got a BIG chance here to take a team into the big time. Im not 100% on his old record; but he usually put Spam mid table (jrio, get some records to contradict it lol :P.) But what he did with Pompey was staggering... Just look at the players they had 4 years ago; then look now. Who would of thought that he would have Defoe and Crouch (again,he was previously there if I remember?)

He's done a fantastic job with Pompey; now is his chance to seriously get us up there. What he has done so far is take the team Ramos built and gave it confidence, the desire to WIN; rather than try the same ****ing thing over and over and over.

Albeit the transfer window wont exactly be exciting for us this time as far as bringing players in; you can at least see the deadwood finally being shipped off elsewhere (probably to Fulham)

This is the time for Harry to shine, to be up there with the BIG BOYS.

Anyway back on topic with this gulf in class.

Chelsea were ****ing average tonight against Roma. Infact; not average... Shocking. I dont necessarily think now that there will be as big a gulf as there was last season. Of course, Chelsea will be up there; as will Man Utd and maybe even Liverpool; but 4th place is WIDE open (unless ***** decides to actually spend some money this time around.)

Someone mentioned something about Wage bill. Probably the smartest thing on here for a while. Thats what keeps these so-called 'superstars' and attracts new 'superstars' to them. Man city is a PRIME example. You think Robinho would of gone to citeh if he wasnt offered £92k p/w? OF COURSE NOT. No-one will go to Citeh unless there going to be on about £50k+ p/w!

[Rojoknapp]

I think it's unfortunate that we had such a terrible start, because while I agree about the gulf in class, I can't see arse being worse than they are now in the next 10 years. Only if fabregas or wenger leaves and causes an exodus, but i can't see it happening. This really could have been our year if we'd sorted ourselves out - arse's midfield is S.H.I.T. They have no dm of any kind, and they are all lightweights, obviously fabregas is quality, but defensively I'd rather have zok, JOH, or hudd (don't take this to mean id rather have them than fabregas, as im sure someone would, they're just better defenders than him)

[olly27]

I think it's unfortunate that we had such a terrible start, because while I agree about the gulf in class, I can't see arse being worse than they are now in the next 10 years. Only if fabregas or wenger leaves and causes an exodus, but i can't see it happening. This really could have been our year if we'd sorted ourselves out - arse's midfield is S.H.I.T. They have no dm of any kind, and they are all lightweights, obviously fabregas is quality, but defensively I'd rather have zok, JOH, or hudd (don't take this to mean id rather have them than fabregas, as im sure someone would, they're just better defenders than him)

They might not have a defensive midfielder as such but how you can call their midfield shit is beyond me. Furthermore they dominated us, and if that is with a shit midfield heaven help us if Wenger strengthens it.

[MiloMinderbinder]

You're missing my point! The point i'm making is that we have bought many players. Not the balance of funds after all the transfers. The fact is that we have spent more money on bringing in all of these supposed future stars and experienced players that have not performed, hence the bottom of the table position.
It's not just as simple as spending money. It's about spending it wisely. Arse have spent alot less but they're still up there. In fact they're in a crisis, which is laughable considering the circumstances. We have just wasted money and missed the opportunity.

that's true to a point, but if you can't keep hold of your better players all you are actually doing is filling the void. Teams like Liverpool and Arsenal gain relative success as they don't sell their best players year on year but rather consolidate on what they have. During the summer the Scum lost Flammini and Hleb, have not properly replaced either of them (jury is out on Nasri but he looks class) and look at what's happened to them. Liverpool didn't lose any senior players and brought in a couple (Reira and Keane) and now look like genuine title contenders.

[jrio]

Ive heard we have more points at this stage of the season than last year.

Yes, 9 as opposed to 7. The 12th game last season was the one when Ramos was first in charge - first 3 games gave 5 points, but 2 were away. Looking at the 5 after that he had 3 wins and 2 losses.

[jrio]

Shoot me if you will; but I genuinely think that Harry's got a BIG chance here to take a team into the big time. Im not 100% on his old record; but he usually put Spam mid table (jrio, get some records to contradict it lol :P.) But what he did with Pompey was staggering... Just look at the players they had 4 years ago; then look now. Who would of thought that he would have Defoe and Crouch (again,he was previously there if I remember?)

Chelsea were ****ing average tonight against Roma. Infact; not average... Shocking. I dont necessarily think now that there will be as big a gulf as there was last season. Of course, Chelsea will be up there; as will Man Utd and maybe even Liverpool; but 4th place is WIDE open (unless ***** decides to actually spend some money this time around.)

Funnily enough he got 5th twice in a row with Wham and then 9th. Remind you of any other manager in particular?

I don't know what Chelsea match you were watching last night, but they were sucker punched after completely dominating the game for 30 minutes, then picked off in the second half. Roma looked like frightened rabbits until they got their goal, with the Chelsea defenders like statues. Goals change games, never truer than last night. I only saw the last minute of Pool's game, that utterly ludicrous penalty decision, but average seems to have described them.

[Rojoknapp]

They might not have a defensive midfielder as such but how you can call their midfield shit is beyond me. Furthermore they dominated us, and if that is with a shit midfield heaven help us if Wenger strengthens it.

Arse's midfield obviously has quality, but they have literally nothing in the way of defending. For me, a midfield has got to have balance, and even though nasri, fabregas and denilson are good passers of the ball, they offer nothing in defence, and I think a midfield that is so unbalanced is sh*t.

[olly27]

Arse's midfield obviously has quality, but they have literally nothing in the way of defending. For me, a midfield has got to have balance, and even though nasri, fabregas and denilson are good passers of the ball, they offer nothing in defence, and I think a midfield that is so unbalanced is sh*t.

They need a defensive midfielder and the absence of Flamini is for all to see, but when attacking they are supberb, the ****s! Their midfield is crying out for a defensive midfielder but overall you certainly wouldn't call their midfield shit, thats laughable!

But then again you think the sun shines out of JJ's ass!!! That was a joke mate dont take it serious!

[berbzy 'G']

Ah, My tickets came threw today for the game against Fulham. Thats my fun for boxing day :001_smile:

[olly27]

Ah, My tickets came threw today for the game against Fulham. Thats my fun for boxing day :001_smile:

I might be going to that game mate! What stand are you in?

[berbzy 'G']

I might be going to that game mate! What stand are you in?

couldnt get tickets for the south lower stand, but il be in the east lower

[olly27]

couldnt get tickets for the south lower stand, but il be in the east lower

I'l probably be in the upper east stand.

[berbzy 'G']

I'l probably be in the upper east stand.

You'll proberbly throw bananas at me or something now :cursing:

[olly27]

You'll proberbly throw bananas at me or something now :cursing:

lol....got anything heavier?...:001_smile:

[berbzy 'G']

lol....got anything heavier?...:001_smile:

I dont mind what you throw. As long as you dont piss in a bottle and launch it at me :cursing:

[gomessi]

Ah, My tickets came threw today for the game against Fulham. Thats my fun for boxing day :001_smile:

Didnt we play them on boxing day last year?

I think over a 3 day period we had a 6-4 and a 5-1 16 goals in 3 days:001_smile:

If its boxing day double pay for me:001_smile: :001_smile: :001_smile:

[olly27]

Didnt we play them on boxing day last year?

I think over a 3 day period we had a 6-4 and a 5-1 16 goals in 3 days:001_smile:

If its boxing day double pay for me:001_smile: :001_smile: :001_smile:

We did yes, I was at it.

[olly27]

I dont mind what you throw. As long as you dont piss in a bottle and launch it at me :cursing:

lol...I wouldn't throw anything at you Berbzy...il let you buy me a bear at half time instead...:001_smile:

[Rojoknapp]

lol...I wouldn't throw anything at you Berbzy...il let you buy me a bear at half time instead...:001_smile:

Where the f*ck will he get one of those from at half time?? :tongue_smilie:

[Rojoknapp]

They need a defensive midfielder and the absence of Flamini is for all to see, but when attacking they are supberb, the ****s! Their midfield is crying out for a defensive midfielder but overall you certainly wouldn't call their midfield shit, thats laughable!

But then again you think the sun shines out of JJ's ass!!! That was a joke mate dont take it serious!

But my point is that their only quality is going forward, and in a midfield you obviously need good defenders or at least 1 good defender. Chelsea- Mikel, Pool- Mascherano, United- Hargreaves. This is why I called their midfield shit, which on reflection may have been a bit strong admittedly. I'm just frustrated at an opportunity missed, because they are weak this year, and let's say their midfield is nowhere near what you'd expect of a CL team. And as for the JJ bit - I could tell it was a joke mate, I'm not 6 :tongue_smilie:

[olly27]

Where the f*ck will he get one of those from at half time?? :tongue_smilie:

Who the **** knows, Berbzy is pretty talented am sure he will think of something!

[berbzy 'G']

Who the **** knows, Berbzy is pretty talented am sure he will think of something!

I'll throw you up a bear on that upper east stand at half time. Aslong as you don't mind waiting for it to pass threw?

[olly27]

I'll throw you up a bear on that upper east stand at half time. Aslong as you don't mind waiting for it to pass threw?

am down with that Berbz...:001_smile:

[olly27]

But my point is that their only quality is going forward, and in a midfield you obviously need good defenders or at least 1 good defender. Chelsea- Mikel, Pool- Mascherano, United- Hargreaves. This is why I called their midfield shit, which on reflection may have been a bit strong admittedly. I'm just frustrated at an opportunity missed, because they are weak this year, and let's say their midfield is nowhere near what you'd expect of a CL team. And as for the JJ bit - I could tell it was a joke mate, I'm not 6 :tongue_smilie:

Yeah I agree with you they need a Mikel, Mascherano etc...but they keep the ball so well it could be argued that we need one more than they do as we dont keep the ball anywhere near as well. Not saying they dont need one becasue they do, but their midfield is still very strong in terms of keeping possession of a football.