Is sven now realising we need lennon?

[Thfc4Life]

This article in the daily mail would seem to suggest so, personally i think that you cannot play a 4-5-1 without pace on the wings and up front. Whats your thoughts on the matter?http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/sport/worldcup2006.html?in_article_id=392870&in_page_id=1892&in_a_source=

[Spur]

Of course he's not, Lennon might get on for ten. But you can bet on it that those ten minutes will be when we are two nil down or two nil up.

The whole point of playing 1 up front is for the wingers to both become second strikers, in a sense. That is something Beckham cannot do. Lennon can. But unfortunately we will not see it.

With Carrick in the side we should have both wingers and both other centre mid's attacking. Going forward we should have a bare minimum of 5 players attacking (striker, wingers and centre mid's) with the full back's backing up the play whilst not losing defensive position too much.

England played the system the other day, but i certainly didn't see five players going forward.

[Welsh Spur]

But why does he seem physically unable to drop Beckham? Right-back? It's pathetic and clearly shows how bad he doesn't want to drop him.

[LEEBOYSPUR]

I think that, for £5m per year, Sven is smart enough to listen to his employers, who in turn listen to their sponsors. It is all about the dollars boys and girls, else Beckham would be long gone from the side, as he is an anachronishm and a virtual irrelevance to the way we should be playing, not to mention he is retarding Lennon's progress

[Chinaman]

Lennon is a must against Portugal, with so many of them already on one yellow. If they think twice before fouling him, Lennon will tear them to shreds. and if they resort to their usual dirty style of play, Lennon will get a couple of them sent off and 1 or 2 penalties as well.

Lennon must play.

[Thfc4Life]

I think that, for £5m per year, Sven is smart enough to listen to his employers, who in turn listen to their sponsors. It is all about the dollars boys and girls, else Beckham would be long gone from the side, as he is an anachronishm and a virtual irrelevance to the way we should be playing, not to mention he is retarding Lennon's progress

Very good post, but i find it hard to believe that this is the main reason as all the other top footballing nations are able to drop there 'star players' for example: raul, doesnt always start and came off against france, totti didnt start against australia. So there must be more to it than that surely??

[Welsh Spur]

Raul is piss poor, he must be going through the worst run of form ever known to a striker, and Totti's recently returned from serious injury, an ankle break, i believe.

[Welsh Spur]

Lennon is a must against Portugal, with so many of them already on one yellow. If they think twice before fouling him, Lennon will tear them to shreds. and if they resort to their usual dirty style of play, Lennon will get a couple of them sent off and 1 or 2 penalties as well.

Lennon must play.

See, now this is such an intelligent post. Yet, it is plain and simple for all to see. So why the **** can't Sven?

[Thfc4Life]

Lennon is a must against Portugal, with so many of them already on one yellow. If they think twice before fouling him, Lennon will tear them to shreds. and if they resort to their usual dirty style of play, Lennon will get a couple of them sent off and 1 or 2 penalties as well.

Lennon must play.

Must if we are going to play 4-5-1 for the rest of the tournament and want to win the world cup, but wont play and therefore rooney will continue to be isolated and starved of service, and beckham will continue to play long ball to him from the half way line. Against ecuador beckham's pass completion was 62% compared with carrick's 86% and at international level it is vital that you keep the ball.

[LEEBOYSPUR]

I cannot think of another job in the land where an individual can take so much cash for apparently doing so little and ignoring the obvious. Talk about performance related pay. Was he ever so conservative/blinkered as a club manager? Did he behave so oddly at Lazio, or IFK Gothenburg, or Benfica? If I were a club chairman, I would sooner employ Cannon and Ball to manage my club than this chump.

If we win the World Cup, it will be despite, not because, of him.

And while I am venting spleen, viz what Welsh said a few posts up, can anyone explain to me why Fransesco Totti is so vaunted? I have NEVER seen him have a good game or do anything special - he seems to be in this band of players that are viewed as World Class and fawned over without real reason. And apparently he is as thick as pig shit too (not relevant, but spleen no vented):D

[marcusto]

From what i hear the FA and Sponsers will lose out on money if Beckham does not play from Asian Markets e.t.c, much like the Rumours and conspiracies which surrounded Ronaldo back in 1998... When Nike would of lost out millions if he did not play in the final...

[Welsh Spur]

money money ****ing money. everything that's wrong with football today.

[JJ]

Drop Lampard, stick Beckham in the middle and stick Lennon out wide. Sorted.

[Welsh Spur]

agreed. 5 man midfield for me, lennon/beckham/hargreaves/gerrard/j cole.
Hargreaves defending, Beckham linking, Gerrard pushing forward.

[JJ]

agreed. 5 man midfield for me, lennon/beckham/hargreaves/gerrard/j cole.
Hargreaves defending, Beckham linking, Gerrard pushing forward.

I'd rather have Carrick in the holding role. I don't honestly believe that we need anyone to defend in front of the back 4. We need someone who can get the ball forward without having to hoof it. Hargreaves can't do that.

[Welsh Spur]

I'm just not convinced by Carrick, and Hargreaves was superb vs Sweden.

[JJ]

I'm just not convinced by Carrick, and Hargreaves was superb vs Sweden.

Defensively i can see why Hargreaves would be better, but we don't have a problem with defending really, it's the going forward and creating chances that we're struggling with despite having centre mids who score 20 a season. They need to be fed the ball and not have to come back to get it themselves.

[Hayes Massive]

Lets get real Beckham WILL start right midfield,Lampard & Gerrard WILL both be in the middle & Joe Cole will be on the left.Sven will only tinker around those four no matter what system he plays.
English supporters everwhere are totally frustrated that us along with the rest of the world can see how we could win the world cup,but we have a man in charge who through stubborness,loyalty or just plain naivety
WILL NOT change.{Lets also not forget that Jenas would have got in the same psitions as Frank Lampard & would have scored at least one.)

[Billywhizz]

Seeing as Deco will be suspended i would for Mickey Carrick just because he's more creative where Hargreaves could have done possibly a man-to-man job on Deco. This is the best time for us to gain revenge on Portugal they have a few on yellow cards and are without a very influential midfielder i would drop Lampard push Beckham in the middle and stick Aaron wide right then we could be in business.

[spurs61]

A terrific article taken form yesterdays Independent;

http://sport.independent.co.uk/football/internationals/article1099157.ece

I'd like to see Sven's response to this.

[highlander]

the problem with the 4-5-1 is the choice of midfielders to attack with. conventional 4-5-1's use the 2 wingers as attackers to support the lone striker. this would be the case if cole & lennon were starting but we all know captain becks will play. so that may rule out wing attacks which would suggest the 2 central midfielders support the striker, which would utilise gerrard & lampards attacking capabilities far better. but this only works if the wingers tuck in almost like a 4-3-3, but joe cole wont do this. it just doesnt work, we either need to drop cole which would be very unjust or drop becks which would allow cole and lennon to support rooney. this still leaves the problem with lampard and gerrard. it just doesnt work and the 4-5-1 system doesnt help the situation so the system needs to go. the 4-4-2 worked perfectly well against portugal last time round we only lost because the ref was a **** and we were poor from the spot.

[Hayes Massive]

I dont disagree but my previous point still stands ericson WILL PLAY Cole Gerrard Lampard & worst of all Beckham.As Englishmen we are being let down not by the players but by the management.Lennon will only play if we are losing with 20 minutes to go or are hanging on 1-0 with 5 mins to go.

[sundancer]

I have said before on this forum that we should play 4-1-4-1 with Lennon in instead of Beckham he is finished as a top player the only man who can not see that is Sven, Portugal will flood midfield and will proberly play two defensive players now that they have lost Deco, we will have to hold the ball and for that reason Carrick has to play there instead of Hargreaves ( if Neville is not fit Hargreaves should play r.b.). I do not wish injurys on any player but it would be a blessing if Beckham is still suffering from sickness and Sven will have to play Lennon, then watch us go.

[Welsh Spur]

There isn't a player in the world who can deliver a ball like Beckham, and for the fact alone, he is invaluable to the team as he has shown with 2 goals (I know one was OG but Becks made it) and an assist in 4 games, you can't complain about that. People slag him off, he responds by scoring the goal that ensures progression and still people slag him off, it's unreal. All you who say he's finished as a top player, if we didn't have Lennon, and were able to sign Becks, would you say no? If so, then you're a liar.

[Spur]

he is invaluable to the team as he has shown with 2 goals (I know one was OG but Becks made it) and an assist in 4 games, you can't complain about that..

Yes we can. The argument goes that had Beckham been left off the pitch, and Lennon played, we would have scored more goals. For all I care he could score every game, but if we play poorly and scrap through then there's no point to it - he may as well be dropped.

[England's No.1]

Personally, I still don't think Beckham should be dropped, I'm in favour of moving him inside to let Lennon play on the right. In a 4 man midfielder it would be hard to know whom to drop, but a 5 man midfield, which looks like Englands best shot with our striker problems, that wouldn't be a problem. I don't think we need a defensive holding player so would go for something like this

---------------Beckham-------------
-------Lampard--------Gerrard-------
Lennon------------------------J. Cole

[Welsh Spur]

I agree, Lennon and Beckham can play, but in your formation there I'd put Becks in Lamps' position and Carrick or Hargreaves where you put Becks.

[Spur]

Yea that's a decent call.

[Welsh Spur]

I'm excited about the game, I really think that Portugal are going to come into it assuming they'll win, I really do. And I really do think, that whether it's pens or extra time or a 90-minute victory, a victory it will be.

[Spur]

I actually think too much emphasis is placed on the system when England play. People want the perfect system, something that - despite the players - will yield results.

When you look at Spurs' system last year, it was far from ****ing perfect. We played one out and out right winger, with three centre mid's - one which would cover for our roaming left-back who would attack in place of the let-winger which we didn't have.

We, IMO, should have been the easiest team to play against last season, but hard-work, determination, individual skill and teamwork got us through. These are the qualities that the emphasis need to be on. Let the team play the football, rather than telling them how to play.

[Chinaman]

Personally, I still don't think Beckham should be dropped, I'm in favour of moving him inside to let Lennon play on the right. In a 4 man midfielder it would be hard to know whom to drop, but a 5 man midfield, which looks like Englands best shot with our striker problems, that wouldn't be a problem. I don't think we need a defensive holding player so would go for something like this

---------------Beckham-------------
-------Lampard--------Gerrard-------
Lennon------------------------J. Cole


I agree with your views for the Potugal game when we won't be needing a holding MF as their 2 main central MFs are under suspension. Let Lennon and Rooney run their socks off and I guess England will get a penalty or two. They'll have to constantly double-team our front two, or perhaps even triple-team Lennon; leaving acres of space for Gerrard and Lampard to run into.

If we manage an early goal, and they have to come out of their shell for the equaliser, Lennon should have a field day speeding past their exposed defense and England may get a 4 or 5 goals victory.

[Spur]

Holding midfielder would be to protect the middle so the centre's can help out with the two wingers or help the full back's against the two wingers - in this case two wingers that are very ****ing good.

Also Maniche can ****ing hit it, so i'd think he needs to be stopped - a holding mid should do the job.

[Chinaman]

I think without Deco, Maniche will not be able to get upfield that often, and add to that, he'll have to defend the middle himself. The line-up England's No 1 suggests also would throw Portugal's pre-game planning into the dust-bin as they surely would not have anticipated England throwing everything at them. Very much like the French surprising the Spaniards the other day.

[England's No.1]

Unfortunately, we all know that Sven will not play that those players in that formation:mad: , so there's not too much pointing in debating it too much.

I heard a rumour, don't know if it's true mind you, that Sven asked Beckham if he would consider starting at right-back so that Lennon could play, and that Beckham didn't think he could play there. This infuriated me as Sven should not be asking Beckham this, he should have the balls to pick the team that he wants to play, regardless of who it upsets.

[Welsh Spur]

Beckham has denied this, but I agree with you, Sven should do what Sven thinks. It's his job. I personally think Chinaman should be England manager.

[sundancer]

:mad: Welsh Spur no I would not like to see Spurs sign Beckham, and I can assure you I am not a liar.

[Welsh Spur]

I wouldn't want him with our current squad, but imagine we had no decent right winger and he was available. Fine, I'll rephrase, if you say you'd turn it down, then I don't believe you. Not that it matters.

There's always one....

[sundancer]

You are right about one thing, there is always one.

[Welsh Spur]

Yes. Correct. Always. One.

[spurs61]

Sven should do what Sven thinks. It's his job.

Nice idea barring two minor problems

1. Sven does not have the capicity for independent thought, what do you think Tord Grip does?

2. Sven is doing his job brilliantly. Safeguarding the interests of Sven Goran-Eriksson whilst occasionly getting his end away, at £4 million pounds a year. Frankly I think he has fulfilled that aspect of the job to a world-class level, give the man a pay rise.

[Welsh Spur]

I agree with your comment about independent thought....he really does seem like a man overawed and desperate in his job, afraid to do what he thinks because of the slating he'll get if he ****s up....so has to act on the advice of others.

[mjbmedia]

whod rather we played a blinder but lost gallantly on pens again, or played crap (relatively speaking) but won and progressed.

yes its great to have both but id rather definitely have the latter than risk going for both and losing.
if we played expansive attacking football then got caught on the break and lost youd all moan we werent careful enough, the only reason Brazil get away with it is cos when the other teams get into their box they think 'shit this is the only chance we're gonna have to score against them so id better make it count ' and then fluff it , no matter how many chances theyve already created its that mental thing thats bought about by all the crap hype surrounding them and that works with the lesser teams (Aussies, Ghana, Croatia etc)

[spurs61]

whod rather we played a blinder but lost gallantly on pens again, or played crap (relatively speaking) but won and progressed.

I refer you to the comment of one Mr D Blanchflower;

"The great fallacy is that the game is first and last about winning. It's nothing of the kind. The game is about glory. It is about doing things in style, with a flourish, about going out to beat the other lot, not waiting for them to die of boredom."

So if you want to win via dull and monotonous methods be my guest, I'm off to watch Argentina.

Who remebers Greece's victory in Euro 2004? Did anyone other than the Greeks enjoy a single game in which they participated? Was it a great advert of football and did it inspire millions to take up the sport in an explosion of excitment and enthusiasm? No, it was a travesty which is a blight on the history of football. Now substitiute Greece 2004 for England 2006, the only difference is that Greece does not possess 6-7 world class player.

[mjbmedia]

fair enough, easy for Danny to say with the team he was playing in tho!!!!!!
did he say it before they started winning or did he wait until they were great??

also did you moan about all the dull but winning performances from Spurs last season or did you watch them gleefully pick up another three points??

[Welsh Spur]

I'm so sick and tired of unappreciative fans that I'm not going to comment again. People like spurs61 do my ****ing head in, if you can play a beautiful game and win, sound.....but how are you meant to do it against 11 players who are hell bent on stopping YOU scoring rather than scoring themselves? Paraguay, T&T, Ecuador all employed a 'lets park the bus in front of goal' tactic, which the Sweden game was slightly more open as they obviously rated their chances better than the other 3, and rightly so. Whoever wins the WC in whatever fashion, you can't say they arent worthy coz the results dont ****ing lie. Go out and do a better job yourself then, or could you not?

[mjbmedia]

well **** off to argentina then , im english and proud of it no matter how they play i want them to win

[spurs61]

I'm so sick and tired of unappreciative fans that I'm not going to comment again. People like spurs61 do my ****ing head in, if you can play a beautiful game and win, sound.....but how are you meant to do it against 11 players who are hell bent on stopping YOU scoring rather than scoring themselves? Paraguay, T&T, Ecuador all employed a 'lets park the bus in front of goal' tactic, which the Sweden game was slightly more open as they obviously rated their chances better than the other 3, and rightly so. Whoever wins the WC in whatever fashion, you can't say they arent worthy coz the results dont ****ing lie. Go out and do a better job yourself then, or could you not?

So what you are saying is that it does n't matter how good the England players are, if the opposition don't want them to score then they won't? We are discussing (I'm discussing, you're just throwing your toys out of the pram) supposedly world-class players here, do you think third division teams employ different tactics when they face Premiership teams in cup competitions?

I didn't say that Greece weren't worthy, I said that it was a poor result for football. Clearly you find it difficult to accept that other people have different opinions to yourself but I'm afarid that's what football is all about, differing opinions.

Are you seriously trying to tell me that you did n't critisise the Goons during the Graham era for being dull and functional, or are you not old enough to remember.

Those of us who are season ticket holders will not accept dour and uninspired football. I go the WHL to be entertained and to enjoy myself and generally this has been achieved. I'm a Spurs fan not an England fan so I see any England game as a welcome distraction, a hobby if you will. I don't know about you but I tend to think of hobbies as being fun and fulfilling. I am very sorry if you can't see where I'm coming from but then the rabid jingoism and xenophobia which pervades this country during international tournaments does tend to blind some people.

I won't waste anymore of my time arguing with you, except to ask the last time you attended a football match and standing in a pub or your mates house does not count. When was the last time you actually spent your own money on a live game of football, would you have been happy to have been bored rigid for 90 minutes having paid upwards of £30 for the privlege?

[spurs61]

did you moan about all the dull but winning performances from Spurs last season or did you watch them gleefully pick up another three points??

Actually, yes I ****ing did have a moan!

**** me, do any of you actually go to the games or are you just armchair supporting, Sky watching diciples?

[Welsh Spur]

Actually, yes I ****ing did have a moan!

**** me, do any of you actually go to the games or are you just armchair supporting, Sky watching diciples?

I attend as many Spurs games as is possible, and it's not many being as I live and work so far from London. However, Swansea City, is another story and we have just had 2 great seasons during which I have attended about 25 out of 46 home matches. I understand what you're saying about the paying to see good football, but when you go to see a team play you go to see them win and as long as that's what they do, I couldn't give a stuff.

[spurs61]

Fair enough, that is what I mean about differing opinions. I have the opposed view in that I would rather see Spurs lose 3-4 in an unbelivable game than see them grind out a 1-0 win. I know it's does make sense and I admit that I would have a good old whine afterwards but at no point would I or could I say that I was bored and not enjoying the game as a spectical, that is why I go to football and I certainly want to be entertained when watching teams I don't have that much interest in.

BTW, I had the pleasure of being a steward at the play-off final between Northampton Town (I think) and Swansea at Wembley a few years back. Interesting to say the least watching the Swans fans attempt to single handedly demolish Wembley. Can you get your boys down to the Emirates Stadium in a few months?

[Spur]

Now substitiute Greece 2004 for England 2006, the only difference is that Greece does not possess 6-7 world class player.

Great comment.

[Spur]

Now substitiute Greece 2004 for England 2006, the only difference is that Greece does not possess 6-7 world class player.

Great comment. A team who wins like that is not thought of kindly. No-one will remember a team like that except for the wrong reasons. If England win like that, yea we will all celebrate it and get pissed, but at the end of the day, the best teams in the world are remembered as the best for a reason.

Brazil 1970, and they won it. Holland 1974, they didn't. But they are considered the best team ever. England 2006. On current form it will mean nothing, and will go down in history as the poorest team to win the world cup - I don't want that, i'd rather see my team go out in a blaze of glory, proud and knowing that they gave it their best playing the best they could.

[Hayes Massive]

I am a spurs season ticket holder & an England fan.My hopes for both are that they win whatever tournament they enter.If we can play really good football whilst doing it then i will be in heaven.However if in the short term we win by playing ugly & lets not forget the world cup is short term (7 games) then i will take it.Tottenham is the same ,in some games last season we won ugly,but those ugly wins & draws got us into europe,they were horrible to watch but along with the good ones got us there.The same applies to England in this world cup.

[Spur]

But last season Spurs did play good football. Games against Newcastle at the Lane come to mind. We outplayed Arsenal twice and Man Utd too. So last season Spurs played ugly when needed but still played the stuff that we, as Spurs, aspire to. The thing with England is that we have not seen any good stuff. None whatsoever.

[Thfc4Life]

But last season Spurs did play good football. Games against Newcastle at the Lane come to mind. We outplayed Arsenal twice and Man Utd too. So last season Spurs played ugly when needed but still played the stuff that we, as Spurs, aspire to. The thing with England is that we have not seen any good stuff. None whatsoever.

completely agree, and England's style of football sadly isn't gonna get any better under bloody Steve McClaren!

[mjbmedia]

yeh but spurs had 38 (well 40 including their tremendous cup runs) games last season in which to play some good stuff. England to date have had 4. little bit different dont you think, did spurs play a blinder in their first four games , i seem to remember a cracking early season encounter against Villa 0-0 and nearly made me drown myself in the MED as was watching it in beachside bar in Costa Del Sol .

so try to have some rationality in your comparisons , if England play 40 games in 10 months im sure theyd be some good stuff in there too.

[singapore spur]

i have to agree with spur61 on this with regards to international football .
i want to see england play with style and panache and if they go out 4-3 in a superb memorable match so be it . i really dont want to see turgid boring football at this level (even if it means we win the w.c ), its the pinnacle of a players career with the best players in the world coming together to supposedly provide a spectacle .

anyone that compares it with premiership are missing the point i think . sometimes you may have to grind out a result , and the football might not be the most entertaining (though any spurs game last year was more exciting than the football served up by england so far ), but spurs are striving to be succesful , to become the best team in europe , to do that we have to move up the league , get into europe , and make money and attract the top names and so sometimes the means justifys the end .

england do not have this to contend with .

[Welsh Spur]

i want to see england play with style and panache and if they go out 4-3 in a superb memorable match so be it.

That's pathetic. I could never use 'we play shit football' as an excuse for not wanting the team I support to win. If Spurs got to any final next season, played well on the way and then grind out an ugly 1-0 win against a team of equal or superior quality, I'm not going to ignore the fact we lifted that trophy just coz we won it playing a shit game. Sure it takes the gloss off a little but if a team lifts a trophy it's because they won it, therefore they deserve to. To use the old saying 'The results don't lie'....An ugly win still means YOU'RE THE BETTER TEAM.

All the matches from hereon in at the WC (with the exception of Italy/Ukraine) are mouthwatering and I'm pretty sure they'll all be must-see matches. England have done well so far, they've got results against teams who have tried to stop them playing. Portugal won't be the same and we should all expect to see a fast paced game, perfectly suited to our Premiership stars.

[Spur]

did spurs play a blinder in their first four games , i seem to remember a cracking early season encounter against Villa 0-0 and nearly made me drown myself in the MED as was watching it in beachside bar in Costa Del Sol

That cracking early season game against Villa was played February. It was just after we had stayed in 4th for 2 months - something we hadn't expected. I was at the Lane for that game and I can safely say that it was not just me shitting myself. The whole crowd were apprehensive and it was quite obvious. We had chances to win and should have done so. The other game vs Villa las season was when Robbie Keane scored on the goals of the season.