martin jol on talksport-good listen

[gomessi]

interesting saying its totally different to tottenham saying hamburg have no money

he just said he thought keane would end his career at spurs-saying he is suprised keane went

also said berbatov wanted to go and is desperate to leave - something we know.

[TURKISH]

interesting saying its totally different to tottenham saying hamburg have no money

Well they won't if they sell there star players like vdv for the fees they do!:eek: :D

They looked awesome the other night against citeh, the passing was marvellous.

[jrio]

Well they won't if they sell there star players like vdv for the fees they do!:eek: :D

They looked awesome the other night against citeh, the passing was marvellous.
VDV in last year of contract I think. Just tuned in and great to listen to him.

[gomessi]

he still a top bloke if not ccomparable to ramos.

saying atouba still gives him a heart attack- some things never change.

also says if he had the players now it would be different + plus he didnt have ledley.

saying spurs didnt buy ready made players like modric like they do now

[SurreySpur]

he still a top bloke if not ccomparable to ramos.

saying atouba still gives him a heart attack- some things never change.

also says if he had the players now it would be different + plus he didnt have ledley.

saying spurs didnt buy ready made players like modric like they do now


Give it a few days and keegan will snap him up claiming he needs a good solid left back!

[choda]

he still a top bloke if not ccomparable to ramos.

saying atouba still gives him a heart attack- some things never change.

also says if he had the players now it would be different + plus he didnt have ledley.

saying spurs didnt buy ready made players like modric like they do now

That's a nonsense really mate. Modric is not a ready made player he is a young player and we bought him very much on tilt before the euros, although it was a very educated decision I will bet. Ready-made is nonsense, however.

And Bentley is not any more ready made than Bent, who he bought, both are young, had two very good years and were bought on the back of that and potential to step up.

Santos is a very talented kid, not ready made, he is actually replacing a ready made player in Malbranque. Berbatov was ready made when Jol bought him, a bit like Woody. Keane was ready made, Jol had him too.

It's just pure rubbish excuses, he just didn't buy the right players for the right positions and kept playing people like Robbo, Dawson, Kaboul and Jenas even though they were in shocking form and just getting caught more and more in a downward spiral.

Great guy though and I'm sure it was a good listen overall. I wish our manager would speak to us in person soon. Surely his english is good enough now.

[Keanoldinho]

That's a nonsense really mate. Modric is not a ready made player he is a young player and we bought him very much on tilt before the euros, although it was a very educated decision I will bet. Ready-made is nonsense, however.

And Bentley is not any more ready made than Bent, who he bought, both are young, had two very good years and were bought on the back of that and potential to step up.

Santos is a very talented kid, not ready made, he is actually replacing a ready made player in Malbranque. Berbatov was ready made when Jol bought him, a bit like Woody. Keane was ready made, Jol had him too.

It's just pure rubbish excuses, he just didn't buy the right players for the right positions and kept playing people like Robbo, Dawson, Kaboul and Jenas even though they were in shocking form and just getting caught more and more in a downward spiral.

Great guy though and I'm sure it was a good listen overall. I wish our manager would speak to us in person soon. Surely his english is good enough now.


Agreed. He's hardly going to come out and say I bottled it being tactically inept and not very good at training or disciplne.

[peterc]

=choda;95324]
It's just pure rubbish excuses, he just didn't buy the right players for the right positions and kept playing people like Robbo, Dawson, Kaboul and Jenas even though they were in shocking form and just getting caught more and more in a downward spiral.



Amazing, and still managed to get us fifth twice.:p

[Keanoldinho]

Amazing, and still managed to get us fifth twice.:p



and fair play to him but he sure as hell didn't leave us there

he'd lost the dressing room and would of got us relegated if he stayed which is truely shocking considering the money spent with him in the hot seat

[peterc]

and fair play to him but he sure as hell didn't leave us there

he'd lost the dressing room and would of got us relegated if he stayed which is truely shocking considering the money spent with him in the hot seat

One thing that no one can confirm, whether he would have managed to turn things around again or not.

[Keanoldinho]

One thing that no one can confirm, whether he would have managed to turn things around again or not.


It's definately debatable because Levy wasn't prepared to sit arround and find out but one thing that's not debatable is Ramos being a far better manager, coach and tactician than Jol and attracting a far better calibre of player.

Plus do you really think Jol would've turned it all arround beat the 2 scums and got us into Europe again winning a Cup along the way. No chance, the players didn't believe in him(well Kaboul did but that's about it).

[peterc]

[QUOTE=BillyandtheBollox;95334]It's definately debatable because Levy wasn't prepared to sit arround and find out but one thing that's not debatable is Ramos being a far better manager, coach and tactician than Jol and attracting a far better calibre of player.

Ramos still has to prove it to us with a decent premiership position, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying he won't, he sure needs to prove alot this coming season.

Plus do you really think Jol would've turned it all arround beat the 2 scums and got us into Europe again winning a Cup along the way. No chance, the players didn't believe in him(well Kaboul did but that's about it).

My sincere answer is I don't know, he managed it twice before, so why not a third time.

[Keanoldinho]

[

Ramos still has to prove it to us with a decent premiership position, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying he won't, he sure needs to prove alot this coming season.



My sincere answer is I don't know, he managed it twice before, so why not a third time.



The teams arround us had gotten alot stronger the big money sky deal came into effect and we collectively flushed our share down the shitter while other top half clubs didn't.

You can keep singing the same old song but in reality it's not very hard to see what direction Jol was heading in at the end and it wasn't pretty.

[peterc]

The teams arround us had gotten alot stronger the big money sky deal came into effect and we collectively flushed our share down the shitter while other top half clubs didn't.

You can keep singing the same old song but in reality it's not very hard to see what direction Jol was heading in at the end and it wasn't pretty.

Assumption is one thing, what would have really happened is another.

[Keanoldinho]

Assumption is one thing, what would have really happened is another.



So what do you assume would of happened?

stick your neck out go on or do you just like being difficult

[peterc]

[QUOTE=BillyandtheBollox;9
5341]So what do you assume would of happened?

As I previously said I don't know.

stick your neck out go on or do you just like being difficult

I'm not trying to be difficult, just trying to see things in a more realistic way

[gomessi]

It's definately debatable because Levy wasn't prepared to sit arround and find out but one thing that's not debatable is Ramos being a far better manager, coach and tactician than Jol and attracting a far better calibre of player.

Plus do you really think Jol would've turned it all arround beat the 2 scums and got us into Europe again winning a Cup along the way. No chance, the players didn't believe in him(well Kaboul did but that's about it).

agree
If we would have kept jol we would not have won the carling cup-fact!
his record against top 4 sides in cups was ridiculous!

Would jol have gone all defensive after being 2-0 up against arse. yep and we lost the tie.

ramos gives us a 5-1. :D

[TURKISH]

It's definately debatable because Levy wasn't prepared to sit arround and find out but one thing that's not debatable is Ramos being a far better manager, coach and tactician than Jol and attracting a far better calibre of player.

Plus do you really think Jol would've turned it all arround beat the 2 scums and got us into Europe again winning a Cup along the way. No chance, the players didn't believe in him(well Kaboul did but that's about it).

Spot on 100%.

[choda]

[

As I previously said I don't know.



I'm not trying to be difficult, just trying to see things in a more realistic way

Pete, even with the start in the second last year I still thought we would get to fifth and we did. But you can bet the house, the mortgage, your car and all the rest that Jol wouldn't have gotten us back into europe last year, for numerous reasons including the other teams getting stronger.

It was all going very pear shaped from a catalog of poor decisions in the office (transfers), team selection and tactics. Something that had me tearing my hair out even only after two games. I knew it was going down the shitter at that point.

[Keanoldinho]

Jol won the emirates cup today with Hamburg beating Juve 3-0 to secure it. Real and the scum were the other teams in it and they all won 1 and lost 1 but Hamburg had the best goal difference.:D

[choda]

Jol won the emirates cup today with Hamburg beating Juve 3-0 to secure it. Real and the scum were the other teams in it and they all won 1 and lost 1 but Hamburg had the best goal difference.:D

Hamburg are very like Spurs when Jol first came in. They knock it about nicely and he has got their flair players into the game and doing the business. However, players are too far apart which good teams will exploit but they want to play football and want to play for Jol. They also seem to completely hand the initiative to the other side for long spells, especially when ahead. He hasn't lost his charisma, but I do get the feeling his lack of knowledge will show up with them too at some point.

[jrio]

Hamburg are nothing at like Spurs when Jol first came in. They're like Spurs soon after Jol came in.

[choda]

Hamburg are nothing at like Spurs when Jol first came in. They're like Spurs soon after Jol came in.

That's what I meant knitpicker. :rolleyes:

[TURKISH]

Hamburg play great football and have show great movement i couldn't believe how comfortable they were against citeh.

[jrio]

That's what I meant knitpicker. :rolleyes:

It isn't and wasn't meant to be. Jol has made no changes at all at Hamburg, he's inherited a side that is quite impressive. The point being made is that he had to make quick changes at Spurs and impose his own philosophy.

And it's "nitpicker". :D

[Shuggie13]

It isn't and wasn't meant to be. Jol has made no changes at all at Hamburg, he's inherited a side that is quite impressive. The point being made is that he had to make quick changes at Spurs and impose his own philosophy.

And it's "nitpicker". :D

nitpicker is an anagram of 'nite prick' :)

[Indianspur]

After watching football years and getting hammered 7-1 by newcastle im so pleased we had JOl..........compare him to gerry 'you know' francis. that guy was a great pretender.

im sure it was him who moved his head a thousand times to an imaginary camera and said you know' in every sentence!

[yid4life]

Anyone got a link to the Jol interview?

I missed it and would like to listen to what the big man has to say

[choda]

It isn't and wasn't meant to be. Jol has made no changes at all at Hamburg, he's inherited a side that is quite impressive. The point being made is that he had to make quick changes at Spurs and impose his own philosophy.

And it's "nitpicker". :D

Well, from what I saw there were remarkable similarities in how they play to how we did under Jol. Any new manager will want to impose his way on a team straight away. When he has the whole summer to do it, you can bet the team is being shaped in his philosophy and methods even if he hasn't changed any of the playing staff yet.

[peterc]

Well, from what I saw there were remarkable similarities in how they play to how we did under Jol. Any new manager will want to impose his way on a team straight away. When he has the whole summer to do it, you can bet the team is being shaped in his philosophy and methods even if he hasn't changed any of the playing staff yet.

Well Choda, Jol managed his team to win the Emirates tournament and hopefully his team will win more trophies and titles. I think it would also be fair to say that the teams were much stronger opponents to ours. Anyway, glad to see the scum win sweet **** all in their own tournament.

[choda]

Well Choda, Jol managed his team to win the Emirates tournament and hopefully his team will win more trophies and titles. I think it would also be fair to say that the teams were much stronger opponents to ours. Anyway, glad to see the scum win sweet **** all in their own tournament.

He's still got the charisma and he will likely lift the spirits of the club, but I doubt his methods will have changed and over time when the charisma doesn't have quite so much impact their fortunes will likely begin to wane or reach a plateau.

[peterc]

He's still got the charisma and he will likely lift the spirits of the club, but I doubt his methods will have changed and over time when the charisma doesn't have quite so much impact their fortunes will likely begin to wane or reach a plateau.

Since I don't have a crystal ball, like you have mate:p, I will wait and see how Hamburg performs under Jol's reign.

[choda]

Since I don't have a crystal ball, like you have mate:p, I will wait and see how Hamburg performs under Jol's reign.

I don't have a crystal ball but I know about tactics and in basic terms at least what works and what doesn't. :p :D

[singapore spur]

i would expect jol to have learnt from his spurs experience and not to make the same naive mistakes at hamburg , and to be fair he was new to the management game then .

peter , i think it is best to leave it that jol just might have been able to turn things round at spurs, but it was highly unlikely and though the way he was replaced was at best unfortunate , at worst disgraceful ,as a team we are better organised and motivated with ramos in charge .

[Shuggie13]

i would expect jol to have learnt from his spurs experience and not to make the same naive mistakes at hamburg , and to be fair he was new to the management game then .

peter , i think it is best to leave it that jol just might have been able to turn things round at spurs, but it was highly unlikely and though the way he was replaced was at best unfortunate , at worst disgraceful ,as a team we are better organised and motivated with ramos in charge .

He wasn't new to the managing game, he was Manager in Holland for a number of years.

I'm sure Jol will do okay in Germany and I hope he is successful.

[peterc]

I don't have a crystal ball but I know about tactics and in basic terms at least what works and what doesn't. :p :D

As correctly quoted by SS, managers are human and all make certain errors, I'm sure Jol would have learnt from his and I hope that he will prove to all that he is a good manager, saying that, coming fifth twice in the premiership, is enough proof.

[peterc]

i would expect jol to have learnt from his spurs experience and not to make the same naive mistakes at hamburg , and to be fair he was new to the management game then .

peter , i think it is best to leave it that jol just might have been able to turn things round at spurs, but it was highly unlikely and though the way he was replaced was at best unfortunate , at worst disgraceful ,as a team we are better organised and motivated with ramos in charge .



I will be convinced, once I see us finishing top four position in the premiership.

[gomessi]

I will be convinced, once I see us finishing top four position in the premiership.

If you followed spanish football you would realise how good juande ramos is.
Plays football in a breathtaking style and in 3 years he has won more than spurs have in 20 years with a much smaller team histroriclly and financially.

[choda]

As correctly quoted by SS, managers are human and all make certain errors, I'm sure Jol would have learnt from his and I hope that he will prove to all that he is a good manager, saying that, coming fifth twice in the premiership, is enough proof.

I think if he had learnt from them he wouldn't have done the same things repeatedly over 2 years at spurs when it wasn't getting any further and only going backwards. I would be flabbergasted if he does an amazing job at Hamburg, but it wouldn't surprise me if he does well to a point, especially in the first year or two.

[peterc]

If you followed spanish football you would realise how good juande ramos is.

Spanish managers who have succeeded in La Liga have not done so well in the premiership, example Rafa.

Plays football in a breathtaking style and in 3 years he has won more than spurs have in 20 years with a much smaller team histroriclly and financially.

I never said that he was not a good mansger, as someone seems to portray, I am still not convinced he is the right manager to take us to top four in the premiership.

[peterc]

I think if he had learnt from them he wouldn't have done the same things repeatedly over 2 years at spurs when it wasn't getting any further and only going backwards. I would be flabbergasted if he does an amazing job at Hamburg, but it wouldn't surprise me if he does well to a point, especially in the first year or two.

Meaning???/:( :( , BTW he still managed fifth twice Choda, something quite important that you seem to ignore.

[Shuggie13]

[/B]

Meaning???/:( :( , BTW he still managed fifth twice Choda, something quite important that you seem to ignore.

Not ignored but actually pointed out by Choda. 'In the first year or two' at Hamburg, being compared to first full year or two at Spurs where he managed 5th twice.

It has never been disputed that Jol got the team to 5th twice. The argument is whether he had the skills to push on further, which includes Cup success. It has been demonstrated that the cup win had many factors where Ramos affected matches that were clearly not displayed in Jol's abilities. The laxidasical attitude of the side was evident at the start of last season and Jol did not address the complacency within the team.

[olly27]

Not ignored but actually pointed out by Choda. 'In the first year or two' at Hamburg, being compared to first full year or two at Spurs where he managed 5th twice.

It has never been disputed that Jol got the team to 5th twice. The argument is whether he had the skills to push on further, which includes Cup success. It has been demonstrated that the cup win had many factors where Ramos affected matches that were clearly not displayed in Jol's abilities. The laxidasical attitude of the side was evident at the start of last season and Jol did not address the complacency within the team.

Shuggie a lovely synopsis there, agree entirely.

[peterc]

Not ignored but actually pointed out by Choda. 'In the first year or two' at Hamburg, being compared to first full year or two at Spurs where he managed 5th twice.

It has never been disputed that Jol got the team to 5th twice. The argument is whether he had the skills to push on further, which includes Cup success. It has been demonstrated that the cup win had many factors where Ramos affected matches that were clearly not displayed in Jol's abilities. The laxidasical attitude of the side was evident at the start of last season and Jol did not address the complacency within the team.


The same could be said about Ramos after the CC, our performances in the premiership were at times embarrassing, I just hope we won't have to look for another manager, can't really see us getting top four, the team will need time to gel.

[olly27]

The same could be said about Ramos after the CC, our performances in the premiership were at times embarrassing, I just hope we won't have to look for another manager, can't really see us getting top four, the team will need time to gel.

Jesus Pete, give Ramos a full season with his players before wetting yourself...:p

Most people can see that Ramos is a very bright manager - not sure what your problem is? (I mean that in a nice way!)

[Shuggie13]

The same could be said about Ramos after the CC, our performances in the premiership were at times embarrassing, I just hope we won't have to look for another manager, can't really see us getting top four, the team will need time to gel.


Agreed Peter and I would argue that those that those that did not respond have either been sold, transfer listed or will be playing a lesser role this season.

The big difference also is that Jol's reign was at the beginning of the season and these issues were not being addressed, the subsequent damage possible didn't lead itself to a cup win and a mid-table finish. Juande had a cup win and a safe position when the complacency kicked in and reasoning was, they will even get dropped and replaced next season or sold. We may not all agree on the sale of Steed and Tainio but it is clear that Juande made a bold decision that they were not needed. As for Robbo, in your opinion how do you think Jol would have dealt with him if still at the club?

[olly27]

Big difference there was, Pete, Jol had a full season infront of him. Ramos had qualified us for Europe, and only had a place or two to gain in the remaining six/seven matches. No comparison.

[olly27]

I see Shuggie has just posted the same thing virtually...

[Shuggie13]

I see Shuggie has just posted the same thing virtually...

Well, as they say 'great minds think alike'. :p

[olly27]

Well, as they say 'great minds think alike'. :p

They do!! as I was about to post that line until I got distracted!!

[olly27]

http://spursclub.blogspot.com/2008/08/berbatov-facts.html

Good read on Berba...

[peterc]

Most people can see that Ramos is a very bright manager - not sure what your problem is? (I mean that in a nice way!)

Not yet convinced that Ramos will take us to the next level, never said he was not a bright manager. I just hope it won't be a "I told you so".

[peterc]

Shuggie13;95782]Agreed Peter and I would argue that those that those that did not respond have either been sold, transfer listed or will be playing a lesser role this season. The big difference also is that Jol's reign was at the beginning of the season and these issues were not being addressed, the subsequent damage possible didn't lead itself to a cup win and a mid-table finish. Juande had a cup win and a safe position when the complacency kicked in and reasoning was, they will even get dropped and replaced next season or sold. We may not all agree on the sale of Steed and Tainio but it is clear that Juande made a bold decision that they were not needed. As for Robbo, in your opinion how do you think Jol would have dealt with him if still at the club?

Tainio, Malbranque were one of the few players who played with passion and were consistant, the likes of Boetang, Lee, Stalteri are still there, maybe no offers. As regards to Robbo, Jol would be the only person who would be able to answer that question, Jol had stated that by dropping Robbo, that would have not helped him boost his morale, how long was Jol prepared to choose Robbo as first choice keeper, is a question that we will never know the answer.

[Shuggie13]

Tainio, Malbranque were one of the few players who played with passion and were consistant, the likes of Boetang, Lee, Stalteri are still there, maybe no offers. As regards to Robbo, Jol would be the only person who would be able to answer that question, Jol had stated that by dropping Robbo, that would have not helped him boost his morale, how long was Jol prepared to choose Robbo as first choice keeper, is a question that we will never know the answer.

Fair play. I wasn't asking for you to get on the phone to Hamburg and get a definitive answer from Jol. I was curious as to what your opinion was.

Thisis by no means a criticism but you tend to be a little less judgemental with regards to Jol and I was interested in your thoughts.

I would say that if Jol was still in charge, Robbo would not be at Blackburn right now.

[peterc]

[QUOTE=Shuggie13;95809]Fair play. I wasn't asking for you to get on the phone to Hamburg and get a definitive answer from Jol. I was curious as to what your opinion was.

Thisis by no means a criticism but you tend to be a little less judgemental with regards to Jol and I was interested in your thoughts.

I would say that if Jol was still in charge, Robbo would not be at Blackburn right now.

Fair comment mate, let's hope that Juande will prove to us all that he is the one to succeed and take us to the next level.