Why settle for top four?

[ronseyward]

There's alot of talk about top four - but why don't we go and win it? If we have the quality that we are moving towards, I don't see why we should settle for second best or fourth for that matter. We beat Chelsea and Arsenal
last season in the cup comp; we drew with Man U and Chelsea in the league and only just lost to Arsenal at Emirates, we drew with Liverpool at Anfield in the last minute - same as we did with Man U. If we win these games then surely we must have a chance at winning it - I don't thinkm Ramos will be thinking about just us getting a top four - I hope he's thinking let's win the bloody thing!

Or are we so far away from the others; that this is just fantasy!

Ron

[Ginola's Son]

The word 'dreamworld' comes to mind.

Never gonna happen.

[singapore spur]

The word 'dreamworld' comes to mind.

Never gonna happen.

never say never mate , i know there is often expressed a big gap between the top 4 ( all capable of winning the title ) and the rest , but i really dont think its insurmountable for a well managed , well supported , financially adept club like spurs to compete and challenge .
ok we dont have the capacity that utd , arse have , and dont have the spending power of the russkis , but with a new stadium in the offing , and utd arse and pool all having funding problems as they stand , i dont think we far away .

[jrio]

Sounds like time for Davros to trigger his Reality Bomb. :o

[olly27]

There's alot of talk about top four - but why don't we go and win it? If we have the quality that we are moving towards, I don't see why we should settle for second best or fourth for that matter. We beat Chelsea and Arsenal
last season in the cup comp; we drew with Man U and Chelsea in the league and only just lost to Arsenal at Emirates, we drew with Liverpool at Anfield in the last minute - same as we did with Man U. If we win these games then surely we must have a chance at winning it - I don't thinkm Ramos will be thinking about just us getting a top four - I hope he's thinking let's win the bloody thing!

Or are we so far away from the others; that this is just fantasy!

Ron

As much as I admire your optimism, this post would probably have most other fans rolling around in laughter and calling us the delusional Spuds!! But feck them, and you never know we do have a very good manager and the club is run well!!

On a serious note I think any Spurs fan would take 4th in a heart beat, of course we would. Walking before running, actaully make that sprinting, springs to mind here. I would lower those expectations a tad, or you could been for a horiffic year!!

[spurs61]

On the face of it we'd all be happy with a fourth place finish and realistically we know we can't compete for the title any time soon. However, none of us expected to start last season so badly; if we start the first few months of the season well then you never know, with Ramos at the helm anything is possible.

[wayne wonder]

Im not even gonna think about 4th!! everyone talked us up for it the last 2 seasons and we've failed :(

So im gonna just roll with the rollercoaster:rolleyes:

[berbzy 'G']

There's alot of talk about top four - but why don't we go and win it? If we have the quality that we are moving towards, I don't see why we should settle for second best or fourth for that matter. We beat Chelsea and Arsenal
last season in the cup comp; we drew with Man U and Chelsea in the league and only just lost to Arsenal at Emirates, we drew with Liverpool at Anfield in the last minute - same as we did with Man U. If we win these games then surely we must have a chance at winning it - I don't thinkm Ramos will be thinking about just us getting a top four - I hope he's thinking let's win the bloody thing!

Or are we so far away from the others; that this is just fantasy!

Ron

this is why teams are trying to buy our best players cos they fear that we could break the top 4 if they stay at Spurs... I personnly think we will finish 2nd or 3rd... with all these big named and quality players we have such as Modric, Keane, Berbatov, Gomes, Bentley exc... Then it would be stupid for us not to win the league

[LEEBOYSPUR]

Admirable optimism, but highly unlikely this coming year. However, like any oligarchies, the 'Top Four' are unlikely to remain unchanged ad nauseum, and I think we are best placed to insinuate ourselves - we have certainly come the closest in past years. I think we are fairly close now. However, we all remember previous false dawns.

The Scum have been weakened, hopefully fatallly, by the finance around the Emirates, and by defections of key players; Chelsea are reliant on the continuing largesse of one man, and should this be removed by whatever means (Polonium, boredom etc) can be regarded as there only as long as this largesse lasts. Only Man Utd seem to offer continuity, but even they are there largely because of Ferguson's nous, and once he retires, the transition could weaken them.

How about 2010-11 for the Double?;)

[LEEBOYSPUR]

this is why teams are trying to buy our best players cos they fear that we could break the top 4 if they stay at Spurs... I personnly think we will finish 2nd or 3rd... with all these big named and quality players we have such as Modric, Keane, Berbatov, Gomes, Bentley exc... Then it would be stupid for us not to win the league

I do not think there is a converted conspiracy amongst the four to continually prune Spurs as they get close. This is more due to the respective wage structures, the need for a bigger squad when competing in the Champions League and the urge to sign players that have already proved themselves capable of playing in the Premiership. Spurs are not the only side these 4 cast their eyes over. In fact, we are one of the teams fairly well placed to resist most advances.

[RuFuS]

Don't we normally win the competition that we play Hull in ?

[Keanoldinho]

First we gotta break into the CL places and further strengthen our squad to win the league. Our starting 11 is looking very strong bar 1 position but we need better depth to go the distance.

The top 4 is even divided too with manure and chelski fighting it out for 1st and 2nd then the goons and scousers 3rd and 4th. I think we have a realistic chance of competing for 3rd or 4th next season but manure and chelski have very deep squads and we're not on their level yet.

Alot of football is mental we need a good start to form a winning mentality and push on all season, our fitness levels should be very good this season too. I'm just ready for the season to start I need my football.

[Mattyboii]

if you think about it last season
we did so bad with jol and ended in bottom 3
but then ramos came and we got up to 11th
if we do have a good start and maintain that we can easily come
3rd maybe even 2nd
with the likes of arsewipes having finacial problems and selling best players
plus we are able to beat chelsea
and maybe with a bigger push we might beat manure one outa of 2 times.
Also new players, better keeper so more clean sheets and less goals so we wont go ahead in first half and then loose the lead and loose. Keane and berba staying? if so even better more goals especially with the support from modric and dos santos maybe even bentley the way things are going. Plus we have hutton and bale and woody, and if we are lucky king but that isnt amazingly likley but im sure dawson or someone else can pull a good performance.
Plus Any Thing Is Likely and as someone said earlier, never say never.

[choda]

Chew on this piece of cud, put this in your pipe and smoke it, suck on this until it melts in your mouth:

Point 1: Managers and money equal success. Take away Fergie, Wenger, Jose and Rafa and the game has just opened up to the brat pack lodged in behind.

Example, previous to Benitez, Liverpool had a good but unspectacular manager in Houllier. He bobbed in and out of fourth. Newcastle and once Leeds got in there with near equal regularity.

Chelsea are possibly the only side safe no matter who manages them, as anyone good will get top four with all the money and strength in depth they have.

Now, I said take those managers away, but what happens if you add somebody as good as them or possibly better than some to the party? Well, that is just as good!

In my opinion Ramos is better than Rafa, better than Wenger and better than Scolori. I base this on how they have spent their money, training and tactical nous. For me Ramos and Fergie are close to perfect really. They very rarely make a blunder and if they do they tend to correct it over time.

While Wenger has a great eye for young talent (quiet at the back) he tends to nurse them to maturity and then lose them due to his rigid systems. His tactics for me are bound to fail at the european level as they have done, miserably.

And his insistence on always going down the middle only really lends itself to when the pace of the prem gets to his height and they can break when the ball keeps getting given away. That is why you will see him often whinge that teams 'defend' when he really should be playing with some width. Oh yea, portsmouth should come out and play a 200 mph ding dong Whenger and get killed. It's up to you to break teams down.

By all accounts Steve Perryman had Wenger in his pocket in the J-League.

He also tends to hate risking spending big money and has actually failed more often than not when he has done so, stand up Reyes and Wiltord. He doesn't appear to trust his own judgement and prefers to buy loads of cheap youngsters and see who he can develop. This is a flaw. Last year he clearly needed a few more big players to sustain a push for the title.

Anyway, enough about him. Rafa often plays long ball and it is very unkempt and patchy. He's really only the master of analysing the opposition in the cl, making a plan to stop them score and squeeze by them through being already out of the league. He's also been rather poor at spending his money. He has made countless poor signings.

Though he does make his teams solid enough to get a decent if unspectacular league tally year on year and he may stumble upon the formula this year if he gets two top class wingers.

I think his success in Spain was due to other people buying the players for him and his coaching being very good.

Scolari for me has not done as good a job with Portugal as made out. Some of the selections he picks baffle in every tournament. Pauleta? Persisted with him before even though he was useless. In the last tournament he had Nani and Queresma and kept picking an ineffective Simoa. And he picked Petit ahead of Veloso.

Would Ronaldo up top, Nani and Queresma in behind not have been worth a better try? Gomes and Simoa did little.

And the way they defended set pieces was a joke. Personally I think that may have been down to the nervousness Ricardo was creating as he was shocking. By all accounts he had a nightmare year and it looks to me like that was another huge mistake, picking him, rather like Robinson last year... ahead of anyone.

They would and should have been in the final if they hadn't defended the set pieces worse than schoolgirls.

I would be very sure our manager is better than these fellas. The only downside is we don't have their money so we are still an outside bet. Whenger might be struggling to hold his team, but he does have more wages to dole out and his way of playing is successful in the 200 mph prem. He will be hard to dislodge but it is possible. Scolori is a funny one. I don't think he is near as good as they think. I think he will get sacked next summer, though it is guesswork at this stage. Rafa has a solid if turgid way of playing and a decent if unspectacular squad, but they get results. They are hardly world beaters though.

Next year we do have a chance to dislodge one of these. We are well run financially, Ramos buys very well, we are well trained, well coached and his tactics are superb. The thing I think many are forgetting is that we have not had a manager like this for 40 years! Nobody since Bill Nic would measure up to Ramos's success and ability.

Point 2: I predicted Jol would finish 5th in his second year. Why? Well it was actually a safe enough bet as his win ratio when he came in at christmas to the summer suggested if we had the same thing happen the following year we would easily grab fifth. And with Levy there he was going to have money in the summer too.

Back to the present. Since Ramos has come in he really stuck it to the big boys in the head to heads. He even won a cup. And that was with the squad he inherited and all it's flaws. But most importantly his win ratio from when he came in would have challenged for fourth place or there abouts, with a squad with many weaknesses. Weaknesses that he has set about drastically changing since January. He has spent big and has spent as well as you will see money being spent as far as I am concerned. Every signing he has made looks like quality work.

This all looks very bright for a challenge on fourth. And who's to say how far you can go after that. If you have a great manager, a degree of money and big support, which we do, then the sky is the limit. I will say one thing: with the stadium problems and the lesser money than the top four for the foreseeable we may only be able to challenge for the league one year and then finish fifth the next and so on. That is often how that happens when you haven't quite got as much money as the clubs that started big, have built up in the cl for years and have big stadiums or have a Russian mogel.

But the monopoly should end here with Levy and Ramos starting with a big club, much later, but having a right pop at the status quo. And at the end of the day with some money, big fan base, top players and a world class manager you can achieve anything.

Indeed, the first thing Ramos did when he came in was tell the lads they could compete with anyone, at any level, if they work hard and believe in themselves. You also have to take the right actions to follow that up with coaching, training, tactics and transfers, and he is doing that.

I would be sure we will challenge for the cl places next year. Challenging for the title is a stretch, but if he gets a few more big players in needed areas, keeps the strikers and we get off to a flyer, you just never know in this game.

Given the money he has spent he really has to challenge for 4th actually. That is bare minimium to me. But it would be unwise to expect more at the same time, at least next year.

After that we will have to see what can happen, but make no mistake we could win the prem with Levy and Ramos. It is possible. :D

They are good enough to dig spurs out of the crater all the previous chairman and most managers post Bill Nic dug us into.

[Indianspur]

We dont have chance of winning the premiership just with ramos as our manager...in his years at seville i dont think he matched madrid or barca when it came to the crunch in coming first...which is the equivilent of manu and chelsea here.
I do have faith but if we can break the top four this year then maybe in the next two years we can consider being title contenders.
It would take consistency as no team ever comes out of the blue to win the title in this day and age, and we would have to slowly rise to the top..our first job is holding onto leads and grinding out results.

[choda]

We dont have chance of winning the premiership just with ramos as our manager...in his years at seville i dont think he matched madrid or barca when it came to the crunch in coming first...which is the equivilent of manu and chelsea here.
I do have faith but if we can break the top four this year then maybe in the next two years we can consider being title contenders.
It would take consistency as no team ever comes out of the blue to win the title in this day and age, and we would have to slowly rise to the top..our first job is holding onto leads and grinding out results.

Actually, he had WAY less money at Sevilla than here and challenged for the title in his last full season. It was an amazing achievement in itself and only possible after a year or two. He did that almost immediately and on a shoestring. Had he stayed he may well have won the title with Sevilla and with less money. That is actually proof of how good he is and that it is possible.

[Indianspur]

i dont think he would have without the money as barca and madrid just keep getting stronger...at spurs however i think he has a better chance due to funding.
Until he wins the championship title we cant say for sure that he is world class (i.e. capello, fergie, mourinho, rikaard)...i know he's won uefa cups btw!

[choda]

i dont think he would have without the money as barca and madrid just keep getting stronger...at spurs however i think he has a better chance due to funding.
Until he wins the championship title we cant say for sure that he is world class (i.e. capello, fergie, mourinho, rikaard)...i know he's won uefa cups btw!

Yea, but you can say that when a manager has done as well as he has on a shoestring and then you view his tactics, training methods and transfers both at Sevilla and now at spurs. In my opinion anyway.

I think the future is very bright. What ever happens the prem is going to be so interesting this year, really awesome to watch.

[berbzy 'G']

well we may not exactly win the league, But we can be just as good as the teams that can this season... theres absolutley no reason why we cant anyway, we have already beaten teams that have won it ffs, if there is any team outside the top 4 that could break it or challenge for the title, its not Everton, Portsmouth or Manchester City, it's Tottenham, and i think alot of other supporters would agree with that

[jrio]

One aspect of Ramos is that, at the crunch, he is a hardened pragmatist, and a bird in the hand is always favoured over 2 in the bush. When Sevilla finished 3rd, they had been top in January, whilst Madrid and Barca were doing there best to not win the title. In the last few weeks Sevilla were still in a position to win the league, and neither Madrid's nor Barca's form had changed appreciably. What Ramos did was focus on the UEFA Cup and Copa del Rey, where he won both, by fielding weakened sides in the last league games. If we're still in with a chance of finishing 4th in the last weeks, but the other teams left in the cups greatly favour us winning them, I'd wager he's likely to take few risks in pursuing the league finish, especially if there's a pile-up of games.

[RuFuS]

Chew on this piece of cud, put this in your pipe and smoke it, suck on this until it melts in your mouth:

V
E
R
Y

L
O
N
G


P
O
S
T

I think the dawn of a new posting season is upon us. ;)


The total innuendo of this bit did make me smile :D


While Wenger has a great eye for young talent (quiet at the back) he tends to nurse them to maturity and then lose them due to his rigid systems.


You should write Carry On scripts :D :D

[gazzaG8]

I'd like to see us take more points off the top 4 this season. Walk before we can run.

[jrio]

You should write Carry On scripts :D :D
He does, and includes large excerpts from them in his posts here. He's still working on 'Carry on Keano' at the moment. He reckons he can make 20-25m from it. ;) That's probably funnier than anything in the script.

[Spaniard]

The season for THFC is depending hugely on one lad: Ledley King.

If he's fit, we can be challenging the 4th spot. I'm almost sure that we will, but King has to stay fit for 3/4 of the season.

Otherwise, if as I expect King is injured, the lack of a quality DM and another CB, will be very hard and we'll be competing for UEFA spots. We should realise we are building something new, a new core of players. The core of the midfield will be changed, so will do our football style.

We can also hope Modric adapts quickly, because the team is way settled for 4-4-2 and if he goes missing in games, we'll suffer (as we did with Jenas last year).

Looking on the bright side, the Prem is not quite demanding in the midfield (excepting the top 4), and with Gomes in GK and Berbatov and Keane upfront we are way too dangerous.

If Ramos can manage to cut all that blunders from defence + GK, then we can challenge for 4th. If the team manages to dominate games in midfield, with Modric as our playmaker and Dos Santos and Jenas running on the wings (sorry Lennon I don't rate you) we'll be able to challenge for 3rd spot.

Nevertheless, we can't forget Manyoo has a quite exceptional team that has virtually won everything last year, or a quiet and solid Chelsea that remained fighting till the last day in CL and PL.

Different matters are Liverpool and Arsenal:

-If the Arse sold Adebayor then they are bound to be fifth (IMO), just because Bendtner is shit and Adebayor's game fits Fabregas (he can run and Fabregas will find the master pass somehow). Losing Hleb, Flamini and Adebayor, and with Eduardo da Silva injured and Rosicky playing 1 week each month they can start worrying. Just imagine them starting with a MF: Diaby/Rosicky - Denilson - Fabregas - Walcott with Da Silva/Bendtner as striker and Van Persie (injury free for how long?) free moving. Not scarying, certainly.

Liverpool is gonna be there, not challenging but top4 for sure. I'm reminding you the reds have the likes of Torres, Gerrard, Reina, Mascherano and Carragher. Ok, the rest of the team may be shit, but as long as this five players stay injury free, they will be top-4. That Barry fight won't carry them too far, and a new quality signing could make them contenders, but it won't happen and we all know. If they just sign Silva or Villa maybe, but not now.


Summing up: we can be there if everything goes fine, but realistic expectations for me are in UEFA places and playing good footie. Rome wasn't built in a day, neither a Top-4 side.

Expected lineup (today):

Gomes; Bale, Woody, King (important games)/Dawson, Hutton; Dos Santos, Modric, Zokora/Hudd; Jenas/Lennon; Berbatov, Keane.

Three weak spots: RW (Bentley chased), DM and CB.

[berbzy 'G']

The season for THFC is depending hugely on one lad: Ledley King.

If he's fit, we can be challenging the 4th spot. I'm almost sure that we will, but King has to stay fit for 3/4 of the season.

Otherwise, if as I expect King is injured, the lack of a quality DM and another CB, will be very hard and we'll be competing for UEFA spots. We should realise we are building something new, a new core of players. The core of the midfield will be changed, so will do our football style.

We can also hope Modric adapts quickly, because the team is way settled for 4-4-2 and if he goes missing in games, we'll suffer (as we did with Jenas last year).

Looking on the bright side, the Prem is not quite demanding in the midfield (excepting the top 4), and with Gomes in GK and Berbatov and Keane upfront we are way too dangerous.

If Ramos can manage to cut all that blunders from defence + GK, then we can challenge for 4th. If the team manages to dominate games in midfield, with Modric as our playmaker and Dos Santos and Jenas running on the wings (sorry Lennon I don't rate you) we'll be able to challenge for 3rd spot.

Nevertheless, we can't forget Manyoo has a quite exceptional team that has virtually won everything last year, or a quiet and solid Chelsea that remained fighting till the last day in CL and PL.

Different matters are Liverpool and Arsenal:

-If the Arse sold Adebayor then they are bound to be fifth (IMO), just because Bendtner is shit and Adebayor's game fits Fabregas (he can run and Fabregas will find the master pass somehow). Losing Hleb, Flamini and Adebayor, and with Eduardo da Silva injured and Rosicky playing 1 week each month they can start worrying. Just imagine them starting with a MF: Diaby/Rosicky - Denilson - Fabregas - Walcott with Da Silva/Bendtner as striker and Van Persie (injury free for how long?) free moving. Not scarying, certainly.

Liverpool is gonna be there, not challenging but top4 for sure. I'm reminding you the reds have the likes of Torres, Gerrard, Reina, Mascherano and Carragher. Ok, the rest of the team may be shit, but as long as this five players stay injury free, they will be top-4. That Barry fight won't carry them too far, and a new quality signing could make them contenders, but it won't happen and we all know. If they just sign Silva or Villa maybe, but not now.


Summing up: we can be there if everything goes fine, but realistic expectations for me are in UEFA places and playing good footie. Rome wasn't built in a day, neither a Top-4 side.

Expected lineup (today):

Gomes; Bale, Woody, King (important games)/Dawson, Hutton; Dos Santos, Modric, Zokora/Hudd; Jenas/Lennon; Berbatov, Keane.

Three weak spots: RW (Bentley chased), DM and CB.

So if Bentley joins us, what will our strongest midfield look like?

[Keanoldinho]

We need a top quality DM or we're not going to get CL footy plain and simple. JJ could be our Flamini he's got all the attributes and is just as strong BUT there's something wrong with his fecking head so I want De Jong he's a bulldog or Albelda or Cana or anyone who's quality and sits infront of the back 4 breaks up play and does all the simple things right.

[berbzy 'G']

We need a top quality DM or we're not going to get CL footy plain and simple. JJ could be our Flamini he's got all the attributes and is just as strong BUT there's something wrong with his fecking head so I want De Jong he's a bulldog or Albelda or Cana or anyone who's quality and sits infront of the back 4 breaks up play and does all the simple things right.

I think Zokora is a good DM, he's a moderately good tackler, and can amazinley burst once in a blue moon

[Keanoldinho]

Zokora does have all the physical attributes to be our DM but like JJ he's not mentally a top player. Nigel De Jong is just what we need he's built like a tank and doesn't try too get all fancy he just breaks up play and gives it too the playmakers. Hudd has the potential to be that player for us too but he needs to read the game better to make up for his lack of pace when he plays for the England U-21s he usually looks good in the DM position. Albelda would be good too he's cheap, experienced and quality.

[berbzy 'G']

Zokora does have all the physical attributes to be our DM but like JJ he's not mentally a top player. Nigel De Jong is just what we need he's built like a tank and doesn't try too get all fancy he just breaks up play and gives it too the playmakers. Hudd has the potential to be that player for us too but he needs to read the game better to make up for his lack of pace when he plays for the England U-21s he usually looks good in the DM position. Albelda would be good too he's cheap, experienced and quality.

De Jong, does he play for Hamburg? don't think Huddlestone looks confortable in DM... I hope Ramos realises that we do actually need a proffessional DM, il have to phone him tommorow morning

[choda]

Zokora does have all the physical attributes to be our DM but like JJ he's not mentally a top player. Nigel De Jong is just what we need he's built like a tank and doesn't try too get all fancy he just breaks up play and gives it too the playmakers. Hudd has the potential to be that player for us too but he needs to read the game better to make up for his lack of pace when he plays for the England U-21s he usually looks good in the DM position. Albelda would be good too he's cheap, experienced and quality.

Zokora lacks the ability mate. He can't pass the ball for shit and it takes him all day to control the ball.

As you say JJ's problem is he hasn't got it mentally. There is just something wrong with him.

Albelda is a right beast, not afraid to rough people up and he does all the ugly stuff really well. He's the type of player we are crying out for. Mr. hard and reliable sitting there breaking play and giving it cooly and simple.

[singapore spur]

The season for THFC is depending hugely on one lad: Ledley King.

If he's fit, we can be challenging the 4th spot. I'm almost sure that we will, but King has to stay fit for 3/4 of the season.

.

sadly , im thinking we dont see much of king this season , and that we must really see any performances from him as a bonus and therefore i feel that keeping woody fit is going to be the prime importance .

yes we can debate wether hudds , zak , jenas can play the DM role , well they can , maybe not the ideal solution but they can do a job there, whereas if we dont have a top class centerback to bring the best out of dawson and bale , (hutton can look ater himself ), then we will struggle

[berbzy 'G']

Zokora lacks the ability mate. He can't pass the ball for shit and it takes him all day to control the ball.

As you say JJ's problem is he hasn't got it mentally. There is just something wrong with him.

Albelda is a right beast, not afraid to rough people up and he does all the ugly stuff really well. He's the type of player we are crying out for. Mr. hard and reliable sitting there breaking play and giving it cooly and simple.


A defensive midfielder or holding midfielder is a central midfielder who is stationed in front of the back defenders for defensive reasons, thus "holding back" the freedom of the opponents to attack. This specialist midfielder's responsibilities are to tackle the ball away from the opposing team's attackers and midfielders and to safely distribute it to more attacking-minded players. Not only do the players protect their team's defence, they also give their fellow midfielders a license to play with more attacking flair without the worry of defensive work.

Some defensive midfielders are called deep-lying playmakers, due to their ability to dictate tempo from a deep position with their passing. Most often, due to their lack of defensive abilities, they have to be supported by a more defensive holding midfielder.

I found this, and would suggest Sevillas Renato who is slowly developing into a decent DM

[Keanoldinho]

sadly , im thinking we dont see much of king this season , and that we must really see any performances from him as a bonus and therefore i feel that keeping woody fit is going to be the prime importance .

yes we can debate wether hudds , zak , jenas can play the DM role , well they can , maybe not the ideal solution but they can do a job there, whereas if we dont have a top class centerback to bring the best out of dawson and bale , (hutton can look ater himself ), then we will struggle



That's why we need a top quality CB to form a partnership with Woody. Dunne would've been ideal but that ship has sailed. I wouldn't mind Colocinni the big Argy, we were linked with him not to long ago or Lescott but Everton wouldn't sell or someone like Lescott before he went to Everton:D

[Spaniard]

[I]
I found this, and would suggest Sevillas Renato who is slowly developing into a decent DM

Renato plays AM, it's Christian Poulsen who plays DM in Sevilla, and in the end of the season it was Fazio, whose best position is originally CB but has done a job in there.

Albelda lacks quality and pace to play in the PL, he's even lacking it in Spain...

I'd love us to sign Rubén de la Red. Strong, 6 footer, good header and composed when on the ball, he can really be a hit as a DM. Last year he played in Getafe as DM and CB, and he carried his team to UEFA heroics and to the King's Cup final against Valencia.

Real Madrid doesn't need him and they could sell for 10-12 million, and I'd definately go for him. He has gone to the Euro 2008 where he played 1 game and scored 1 against Greece, and he's only 22 if I'm not mistaken.

Another player I'd love to see here is Xabi Alonso. We know he's available for 16.5 million, we know about his quality passing and his potential, I think Benitez has undermined his confidence in the last two seasons, and playing Mascherano with him in the same starting XI has hurt him, but with Ramos and his attacking passing style he could flourish in this team.


Finally, I agree with some other posters: Jermaine Jenas hasn't got it mentally, as simply as that. He was raised (football speaking) as a creative star, he's not used to chase the ball like a bulldog and he's not gonna change that now.

[mjbmedia]

One aspect of Ramos is that, at the crunch, he is a hardened pragmatist, and a bird in the hand is always favoured over 2 in the bush. When Sevilla finished 3rd, they had been top in January, whilst Madrid and Barca were doing there best to not win the title. In the last few weeks Sevilla were still in a position to win the league, and neither Madrid's nor Barca's form had changed appreciably. What Ramos did was focus on the UEFA Cup and Copa del Rey, where he won both, by fielding weakened sides in the last league games. If we're still in with a chance of finishing 4th in the last weeks, but the other teams left in the cups greatly favour us winning them, I'd wager he's likely to take few risks in pursuing the league finish, especially if there's a pile-up of games.
that is the one thing about his history that truly concerns me, did he bottle it , i think so , hed better not do that here if he gets the chance.

[Baleinho]

You bastard, I was just about to mention Poulsen. He would be ideal.

Im too tired (i know its like 10am) to write a shit long post about our chances. Theres 4 pages worth of good comments and interesting facts so I think ill stay out of this one for the time being. Ill come back with something decent once Ive drank my Red Bull :P

[choda]

Renato plays AM, it's Christian Poulsen who plays DM in Sevilla, and in the end of the season it was Fazio, whose best position is originally CB but has done a job in there.

Albelda lacks quality and pace to play in the PL, he's even lacking it in Spain...

I'd love us to sign Rubén de la Red. Strong, 6 footer, good header and composed when on the ball, he can really be a hit as a DM. Last year he played in Getafe as DM and CB, and he carried his team to UEFA heroics and to the King's Cup final against Valencia.

Real Madrid doesn't need him and they could sell for 10-12 million, and I'd definately go for him. He has gone to the Euro 2008 where he played 1 game and scored 1 against Greece, and he's only 22 if I'm not mistaken.

Another player I'd love to see here is Xabi Alonso. We know he's available for 16.5 million, we know about his quality passing and his potential, I think Benitez has undermined his confidence in the last two seasons, and playing Mascherano with him in the same starting XI has hurt him, but with Ramos and his attacking passing style he could flourish in this team.


Finally, I agree with some other posters: Jermaine Jenas hasn't got it mentally, as simply as that. He was raised (football speaking) as a creative star, he's not used to chase the ball like a bulldog and he's not gonna change that now.

What do you mean finally agree? Most people have had that opinion for a long while. I've had it for two years now.

As for the dm role, I thought Albelda was highly rated? Captain of the successful Valencia side and many caps for Spain.

One player on my radar is Freddy Guarin. He was unreal against Ireland in a recent international. Strong, athletic and very good on the ball. He replaced Zokora at St. Etienne. He looked a really huge prospect.

By the way lads, Tainio is the best holding player in the current squad by a country mile.

[jrio]

I'd love us to sign Rubén de la Red. Strong, 6 footer, good header and composed when on the ball, he can really be a hit as a DM. Last year he played in Getafe as DM and CB, and he carried his team to UEFA heroics and to the King's Cup final against Valencia.

Real Madrid doesn't need him and they could sell for 10-12 million, and I'd definately go for him. He has gone to the Euro 2008 where he played 1 game and scored 1 against Greece, and he's only 22 if I'm not mistaken.

Another player I'd love to see here is Xabi Alonso. We know he's available for 16.5 million, we know about his quality passing and his potential, I think Benitez has undermined his confidence in the last two seasons, and playing Mascherano with him in the same starting XI has hurt him, but with Ramos and his attacking passing style he could flourish in this team.


Finally, I agree with some other posters: Jermaine Jenas hasn't got it mentally, as simply as that. He was raised (football speaking) as a creative star, he's not used to chase the ball like a bulldog and he's not gonna change that now.
De La Red seems a very interesting proposition. If we could get him I'd probably join everyone else in their rocketing expectations.

Seemingly we did make an approach to Alonso several weeks ago and were told he wasn't interested.

[Gino Ginelli]

Similar to last season, I realistically expect a top 8 finish.

I didn't buy into the top 4 promise of last season, but still expected shitloads better than what we saw. Like most others, I agree that the stability of the back four is the key to our success (or lack thereof) in the league. The addition of a DM, or a decent amount of faith in Tainio would also provide that much needed solidity. Modric and JJ in CM offers too little grit, and no protection for the defence, plus there's the danger that at least one (at worse both) can go missing in a tough match.

Therefore at this point I say a UEFA cup spot is our ultimate aim this season.

[Mattyboii]

anyone think that we can win UEFA this year???
maybe go for carling cup again

[berbzy 'G']

anyone think that we can win UEFA this year???
maybe go for carling cup again

we will win the quadroople !!!!

[choda]

At present (if we don't sign) surely O'Hara and Tainio deserve a run at the dm role. Both are shitload more solid and hard than Zokora and Jenas while Tainio will also keep it neat and simple and O'Hara could even control games with his passing ability.

I'm not worried about the side being too small height either by the way, in my opinion you just need a big back five which we have and we also have a tall striker.

[Spaniard]

What do you mean finally agree? Most people have had that opinion for a long while. I've had it for two years now.

As for the dm role, I thought Albelda was highly rated? Captain of the successful Valencia side and many caps for Spain.


You said "Most of the people have had that opinion"but I remember us (you and me) getting slated when we told about JJ issues and he was performing well.

Albelda is 31 or 32, and as you said, WAS highly rated. Now he wants out and Valencia doesn't want him so you can do the math. Believe it or not, we removed Raúl and Albelda and called Güiza and Senna and we won the Euro 2008. (Albelda was overrated, Raúl is just old and not suited to the classy style of our NT)

[jrio]

At present (if we don't sign) surely O'Hara and Tainio deserve a run at the dm role. Both are shitload more solid and hard than Zokora and Jenas while Tainio will also keep it neat and simple and O'Hara could even control games with his passing ability.

I'm not worried about the side being too small height either by the way, in my opinion you just need a big back five which we have and we also have a tall striker.

Unfortunately it appears there are no signs that either proponents of the most flattering to deceive midfield are likely to be leaving. Will it be a Zokora/Modric centre? Zokora seems favoured, but then he doesn't disgrace himself at CB and can do a job at RB. Where does JJ fit in? If Lennon leaves, cover at RM. If he doesn't, a bench-warmer? Jenas would be the obvious one to attract at least what we paid for him, and possibly much more.

The most disappointing aspect is TT's departure. It's one of those choices that makes you think the manager must be receiving personal messages from a higher plane to choose Zok over him. I don't accept the injury record because King plays when fit. The principle is the same, even if there is a massive gap in ability.

[TURKISH]

Ive never once slated tt and ive allways been impressed with him to be honest. But for some strange reason he gets overlooked?

[Gino Ginelli]

I think Zokora probably get's the nod over TT purely on the basis of his superior athelticsm and pace. Probably a bit stronger too.

But TT's certainly a better footballer than he is, and I daresay his reading of the game and concentration levels are a good deal higher as well. Can't fault his grit and determination either.

But even with that in mind, and with an understanding of what a DM needs to do, TT is still probably an above average footballer at best. I am certainly in agreement about Alonso, a quality player there. Sadly he's a tad too expensive, and probably not interested in coming to us.

[choda]

I think Zokora probably get's the nod over TT purely on the basis of his superior athelticsm and pace. Probably a bit stronger too.

But TT's certainly a better footballer than he is, and I daresay his reading of the game and concentration levels are a good deal higher as well. Can't fault his grit and determination either.

But even with that in mind, and with an understanding of what a DM needs to do, TT is still probably an above average footballer at best. I am certainly in agreement about Alonso, a quality player there. Sadly he's a tad too expensive, and probably not interested in coming to us.

I disagree, when he played in HIS position at dm for spurs and he looked assured in the role. He may not be as quick as Zokora, but what does that matter when 'the maestro' can't even control the ball or pass it even on a basic prem level.

Tainio can sit, read it, cooly intercept and he is able to play it quick, neat and tidy. You really can't ask for a whole lot more from a dm. There are better ones, but not miles better at the sit, read and give it. Just don't ask him to play right winger like Jol used to do for reasons only known to MJ.

If we don't sign a dm or if the one we buy gets injured he'd fill the holding role no bother next year and could easily sustain form in a push for the cl. Zokora on the other hand is a liability, as is JJ as there is something wrong upstairs.

I think he is very underated, as is O'Hara (even though I'd say he is really an am playmaker). They are both much better than JJ and the Zok for me, and not just potentially, RIGHT NOW.

Don't get me wrong I'd like a young, always fit and dynamic natural holding player with top level ability, but keep Tainio, he's a great lad and an accomplished footballer.

[choda]

Similar to last season, I realistically expect a top 8 finish.

I didn't buy into the top 4 promise of last season, but still expected shitloads better than what we saw. Like most others, I agree that the stability of the back four is the key to our success (or lack thereof) in the league. The addition of a DM, or a decent amount of faith in Tainio would also provide that much needed solidity. Modric and JJ in CM offers too little grit, and no protection for the defence, plus there's the danger that at least one (at worse both) can go missing in a tough match.

Therefore at this point I say a UEFA cup spot is our ultimate aim this season.

Spending that amount of money with Ramos in charge and keeping the strikers means that challenging for the cl is the bare minimium expectation when the squad is fully shaped up. There is no way around it, the team is going to be very strong and full of real quality.

That's the realistic expectation, whether you like it or not.

Worse than top six is failure. I don't think you are being realistic at all actually, but just don't want to get your hopes up, which is fair enough, but you are not being realistic.

Jol got what he deserved in the sacking (the manner is another debate), as he left the squad imbalanced and still with serious weaknesses. The only reason it was unrealistic to challenge for the cl last year is because he really screwed up.

[Gino Ginelli]

I think I'm perfectly realistic in a top 8 finish tbh. I assume that by being in the top six you expect that other 5th/6th spot to be Everton perhaps?

Therefore we have to be better than Villa who are very strong in attack, and even if Barry leaves, the capture of Sidwell would certainly keep that midfield looking good too. One hopes with the loss of Mellberg (and did Laursen leave or go?) that the defence becomes wobbly.

The others are Man City, who I believe have got the right manager in, with their key players from last year staying, and a good signing in Jo; and Pompey - again I expect good things from the front line of Defoe and Crouch there, with a really good unit of quality players.

All these teams did better than us last year, through good management and the simple fact that they had better players. On paper, yeah we have an awesome lineup, but just because we're strengthening/improving through better management and signings, that doesn't mean the others won't.

Competition for the UEFA cup spots is going to be alot tougher than last year, and the retainment of that back 4 and a quick gelling together of the midfield is essential for us to be in that mix from August to May.

So yeah, we are good enough to get 5th this year, but the fight is going to be so hard, and I'm not convinced we have that resiliance and consistency yet to last it out. So I expect us to be in and around the 5th to 8th places this year. And that's my genuine instinct; not cagey-ness or dissillusionment.

[choda]

I think I'm perfectly realistic in a top 8 finish tbh. I assume that by being in the top six you expect that other 5th/6th spot to be Everton perhaps?

Therefore we have to be better than Villa who are very strong in attack, and even if Barry leaves, the capture of Sidwell would certainly keep that midfield looking good too. One hopes with the loss of Mellberg (and did Laursen leave or go?) that the defence becomes wobbly.

The others are Man City, who I believe have got the right manager in, with their key players from last year staying, and a good signing in Jo; and Pompey - again I expect good things from the front line of Defoe and Crouch there, with a really good unit of quality players.

All these teams did better than us last year, through good management and the simple fact that they had better players. On paper, yeah we have an awesome lineup, but just because we're strengthening/improving through better management and signings, that doesn't mean the others won't.

Competition for the UEFA cup spots is going to be alot tougher than last year, and the retainment of that back 4 and a quick gelling together of the midfield is essential for us to be in that mix from August to May.

So yeah, we are good enough to get 5th this year, but the fight is going to be so hard, and I'm not convinced we have that resiliance and consistency yet to last it out. So I expect us to be in and around the 5th to 8th places this year. And that's my genuine instinct; not cagey-ness or dissillusionment.

Jol set a base better than those clubs and then didn't take it on and those managers passed him out with less money. However, it was a major **** up and Ramos cleaned up the worst mess by winning the c-cup and started to address the big flaws still there straight away, for the following year.

Fact is we have better players than those sides, more money and a better manager, so we should finish ahead of all of them, including Everton, but they have been slowly and surely building well every year for a good while and though they are not as good as us they are bloody solid and have a few very decent players.

As I say when you spend that amount of money and you have the quality we have already in certain areas and have a world class coach the minimium to expect is a tilt at the cl place.

Last year half the side was excellent and half was a joke. Ramos has set about getting the bad half up to the level of the other half, and he is doing it superbly in my eyes. We are definitely a side the top four fear more than the rest. And we are not a 'could do well, could do awful' team if we have a solid spine and Juande is working on getting those players in.

He is also sorting the attacking problems too with a playmaker and more match winners. Last year we really lacked wide options and Lennon lost his confidence to boot, but no one could come in.

They will also be fit and ready for the new season for once. I guarantee you we won't start so sluggishly this year as the last two. That is very hard to recover from.

Levy and Ramos mean business and they are doing the right things to make the team consistent and a major threat. I'm very happy with how things are shaping up.

[jrio]

Everton are a solid side and Moyes has done better than could be expected with the resources at his disposal. He must be completely flabbergasted looking at our purchases so far, and the ones still to come. I don't think Everton can do any better than they did last season.

The calibre of player that has been coming in at Spurs clearly announces our intentions. They are to compete at the very highest level of the league. It is reminiscent of Bill Nicholson at his boldest(nice story on Coys from a fan who attended one of Greaves' football evenings in the Midlands a few weeks ago. Bill was aware Greaves was unhappy at Milan and flew over with a view to speaking to him. Greaves answers a knock on the door of his flat to see Bill standing there.
Bill: Hello, do you know who I am?
Greaves: Course I ****ing know who you are!)

I don't know where we'll finish but I am expecting to compete on an equal level with the best sides in the league. If we're not at least even with results against them then that will be a big disappointment. If we're not in contention for a top four finish with only a month to go that will be a big disappointment. If we're not strong favourites for a trophy with 2 months to go that will be a disappointment.

[TURKISH]

If we can keep king, woody, keano and berba fit for the whole season without any big injurys i can't see why we can't finish 5 with ease to be honest.

[mjbmedia]

top four is a minimum this season , id expect to be up there challenging all season , tho of course we will have our usual injuries during training.

[Rojoknapp]

I agree we need a top quality DM, though I like zokora more than most, he's not CL class is he?

I would love xabi alonso, he is one of the classiest and underrated players in the league. Ruben de la Red would also be a good signing. And though we haven't been linked, what about Claude Makelele? He has been one of the best DMs in the league since Chelski signed him, he would be perfect.

But for all this talk of signing great DMs, how stupid do we feel now that in failing to show the resolve that we have over the Berbatov to United issue, we lost the best defensive playmaker in England -----> Michael Carrick

[Spaniard]

I'm gonna be slated but...Michael Carrick was EXTREMELY overrated. He was the Gareth Barry of 2006. For god's sake, he went for 18 million! I don't know why but English players are so expensive they are not worth buying.

You can replace him with 8-10 million with a non-English midfielder.

I bet Chelsea won't allow THFC to talk to Makelele. Hell, I won't allow that if I were Abramovich. If he leaves, he'll go abroad.

And we need someone better and younger, some lad who can grow with the young team and become something special. We're building with youth players, so I'd like to have a core of players developing here.

[choda]

I'm gonna be slated but...Michael Carrick was EXTREMELY overrated. He was the Gareth Barry of 2006. For god's sake, he went for 18 million! I don't know why but English players are so expensive they are not worth buying.

You can replace him with 8-10 million with a non-English midfielder.

I bet Chelsea won't allow THFC to talk to Makelele. Hell, I won't allow that if I were Abramovich. If he leaves, he'll go abroad.

And we need someone better and younger, some lad who can grow with the young team and become something special. We're building with youth players, so I'd like to have a core of players developing here.

Right again, Carrick was overated, good player though and was not replaced. Makelele may have one more good year left in him, but you won't get him.

[Spaniard]

The thing is that I'm worried: no gossip on us signing a new DM.

You know the media always gossip about tons of signings in one position if they know some club are looking for a replacement, but I've heard little on that one.

I've been relieved a bit when MARCA (spanish newspaper) linked us and the Arse with Rubén de la Red, for 15 million.

Oh, and don't get excited too soon. What if Modric fails? What if he gets injured early in the season a la Jimmy Bullard? Expect the unexpectable...and be prepared for the worst. Young players, new to the PL, playing in MF (position where the adaptation takes longer), Dos Santos can't speak in English for life...

Take it easy! I'd start without any expectations. I'll watch the team in preseason friendlies and then we could talk. It's nonsense to talk about it right now, and even less if we expect top - 4 finish.