HAve i lost the plot?

[Indianspur]

Theres been a lot of talk with paul ince being the first black premier league manager and how John barnes has been turned down etc....
but wasnt Jean tigana of fulham not black and would be first premiership black manager???
my minds blank at this! shoot me if im wrong!

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11676_3723410,00.html

[SurreySpur]

It says that Ince is the first Black BRITISH manager in the premier league.

[Indianspur]

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh :cool:


i can sleep better now

[Shuggie13]

Jean Tigana was indeed black, but predominately French.

[Indianspur]

Just dont understand what the fuss is about him being black, theres been a black manager before him and there isnt an agenda for john barnes to complain about as he's just better doing lucozade adverts!
Who cares what nationality they are and what colour they are, its all about talent.

[gazzaG8]

Ruud Ghullit was the first wasn't he?

[singapore spur]

Just dont understand what the fuss is about him being black, theres been a black manager before him and there isnt an agenda for john barnes to complain about as he's just better doing lucozade adverts!
Who cares what nationality they are and what colour they are, its all about talent.


i read about this john barnes issue , raised on another forum , and its a crock of shite . john barnes is too up himself , he got the job at celtic ahead of many more suitable candidates on the back of his playing careeer and fecked up , and to be honest that a hard thing to do .

he comments on the lack of black managers but is unprepared to start at the lower levels and progress through the ranks even though he would have a head start on many other aspiring young managers .
ince , like him or loathe him , at least has done some groundwork and done well , even though he too has been fast tracked because of his playing career giving him a higher profile .

barnes , a crap pundit in my view with poor communication skills , as in his playing career expects things to be handed to him on a plate without the required work ethic .

[Ioang]

I think Ince's main point was:

Keano walks into the rich and well supported club of Sunderland no questions asked...

Ince had to start low and build his way up. He's not saying it's impossible for black ex-footballers to manage, just that its way harder and they start from unequal starting points.

[choda]

You can't say black anymore, you see. ;)

Black british is okay but the dutch refer to themselves as African Dutch and the French call themselves le Africano Fraunchie. :D

[choda]

I think Ince's main point was:

Keano walks into the rich and well supported club of Sunderland no questions asked...

Ince had to start low and build his way up. He's not saying it's impossible for black ex-footballers to manage, just that its way harder and they start from unequal starting points.

Well, people can be funny like that. If Ince makes it as a black british manager then you can be sure that people will not hesitate anymore in giving similar candidates a good job straight away, if they are good.

It was the same in hollywood. There was never a black leading man in big budget films until Sidney Pioteur did it the hard way first. Denzel, Jackson and Freeman got roles made for them after that and get a normal number of 'it is not so important what colour they are' roles.

[TURKISH]

Well, people can be funny like that. If Ince makes it as a black british manager then you can be sure that people will not hesitate anymore in giving similar candidates a good job straight away, if they are good.

It was the same in hollywood. There was never a black leading man in big budget films until Sidney Pioteur did it the hard way first. Denzel, Jackson and Freeman got roles made for them after that and get a normal number of black or white roles.

I don't understand why people make a big deal out of the fact that ince is the first black english gaffer. Its not like there are hundreds of great black managers in the lower league being over looked on purpose.

I think its just a coincidence maybe 20 years ago yer but not in this day and age of football. Or am i being naive?:confused:

[Ioang]

I agree. Hence why people are making a 'big deal' out of it. He was the first black England captain and now the first black English manager - hopefully many more to come.

[TURKISH]

I agree. Hence why people are making a 'big deal' out of it. He was the first black England captain and now the first black English manager - hopefully many more to come.

But are there alot of black people taking coaches badges and stuff?

I think black people are smart staying away from management imo just stick to champ manager at least you can turn computer off when things get bad!

[Spur]

But are there alot of black people taking coaches badges and stuff?

I think black people are smart staying away from management imo just stick to champ manager at least you can turn computer off when things get bad!

No.

Studies have shown that few take the qualification. But people can turn that round and say they don't take the quals because they are black and think / know they won't get offered anything.

On a side note, didn't Ince choose to start off at the very bottom. I know he was rejected for the Wolves job but wasn't he offered something at another Championship side...?

[TURKISH]

No.

Studies have shown that few take the qualification. But people can turn that round and say they don't take the quals because they are black and think / know they won't get offered anything.

On a side note, didn't Ince choose to start off at the very bottom. I know he was rejected for the Wolves job but wasn't he offered something at another Championship side...?

Yer he turned down the wolves job to go to the lower leagues. I like the fella allways have and hope he does a good job.

[choda]

There is also a common idea that black people make great athletes but are not as bright or well learned. It wouldn't surprise me if that wasn't in the back of many's minds, even though it is at best a gross generalisation.

For one thing Wayne Wonders is one of the best posters on here by far. ;)

[wayne wonder]

There is also a common idea that black people make great athletes but are not as bright or well learned. It wouldn't surprise me if that wasn't in the back of many's minds, even though it is at best a gross generalisation.

For one thing Wayne Wonders is one of the best posters on here by far. ;)

You love me dont you ya slag:p

To be honest my thoughts on it are this! why are people moaning saying there aren't enough black managers its down to the individual if they wish to get into managagment and there aint many that have such a high profile like Ince if Ian Wright decided to go into the game again he'd get the chance same as Barnes did for celtic.

What people dont realise there are black coaches in the game as we speak Eddie newton runs the chelsea academy there i think and also Paul Davis was interral in arsenals youth set-up not sure if he's still there. Keith ALexander who may not be a big name but gets jobs in the lower leagues.

And another thing footballers these days are so rich that they dont need to get into management the new generation wont trust me and for the record u think 30/40% of the footballers are balck......dont quote me on actual figures so its not like they're being held back.

The problem is that its all a PR stunt and bores the pants off me i mean if anything where are the asian kids as in muslims.indians in todays game? there's none at all the only one i can remember was at leeds a lad called Harpal Singh never to be seena gain

[wayne wonder]

There is also a common idea that black people make great athletes but are not as bright or well learned. It wouldn't surprise me if that wasn't in the back of many's minds, even though it is at best a gross generalisation.

For one thing Wayne Wonders is one of the best posters on here by far. ;)

You love me dont you ya slag:p

To be honest my thoughts on it are this! why are people moaning saying there aren't enough black managers its down to the individual if they wish to get into managagment and there aint many that have such a high profile like Ince if Ian Wright decided to go into the game again he'd get the chance same as Barnes did for celtic.

What people dont realise there are black coaches in the game as we speak Eddie newton runs the chelsea academy there i think and also Paul Davis was interral in arsenals youth set-up not sure if he's still there. Keith ALexander who may not be a big name but gets jobs in the lower leagues.

And another thing footballers these days are so rich that they dont need to get into management the new generation wont trust me and for the record u think 30/40% of the footballers are black in the prem at the mo?......dont quote me on actual figures so its not like they're being held back is it and earn more than some can even dream of

The problem is that its all a PR stunt and bores the pants off me i mean if anything where are the asian kids as in muslims.indians in todays game? there's none at all the only one i can remember was at leeds a lad called Harpal Singh never to be seena gain

[TURKISH]

You love me dont you ya slag:p

To be honest my thoughts on it are this! why are people moaning saying there aren't enough black managers its down to the individual if they wish to get into managagment and there aint many that have such a high profile like Ince if Ian Wright decided to go into the game again he'd get the chance same as Barnes did for celtic.

What people dont realise there are black coaches in the game as we speak Eddie newton runs the chelsea academy there i think and also Paul Davis was interral in arsenals youth set-up not sure if he's still there. Keith ALexander who may not be a big name but gets jobs in the lower leagues.

And another thing footballers these days are so rich that they dont need to get into management the new generation wont trust me and for the record u think 30/40% of the footballers are black in the prem at the mo?......dont quote me on actual figures so its not like they're being held back is it and earn more than some can even dream of

The problem is that its all a PR stunt and bores the pants off me i mean if anything where are the asian kids as in muslims.indians in todays game? there's none at all the only one i can remember was at leeds a lad called Harpal Singh never to be seena gain

Spot on wayne it makes me laugh when they come out with these stupid pr stunts, its the stupid white people who think they are doing the black community a favour when infact i bet there just like whats they big deal?

What i find funny is how the goverment stop fire service, police ect from picking the best people for the job because they want more ethnicity in the work place. Imo colour doesn't matter you should be employed for your skills not colour.

[wayne wonder]

Spot on wayne it makes me laugh when they come out with these stupid pr stunts, its the stupid white people who think they are doing the black community a favour when infact i bet there just like whats they big deal?

What i find funny is how the goverment stop fire service, police ect from picking the best people for the job because they want more ethnicity in the work place. Imo colour doesn't matter you should be employed for your skills not colour.

If someone picked me over say a white guy for a job just on that basis i wouldn't take it because i'd be well pissed off i wanna be picked on my skill and qualifications and thats what ive done and also my dashing good looks dont harm me :p

[TURKISH]

If someone picked me over say a white guy for a job just on that basis i wouldn't take it because i'd be well pissed off i wanna be picked on my skill and qualifications and thats what ive done and also my dashing good looks dont harm me :p

Calm down shaggy!http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lutqplLMvfk&feature=related

[wayne wonder]

Calm down shaggy!http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lutqplLMvfk&feature=related

hahahahaha quality

[Ioang]

Spot on wayne it makes me laugh when they come out with these stupid pr stunts, its the stupid white people who think they are doing the black community a favour when infact i bet there just like whats they big deal?

What i find funny is how the goverment stop fire service, police ect from picking the best people for the job because they want more ethnicity in the work place. Imo colour doesn't matter you should be employed for your skills not colour.

police force is a bit different though; you need cops of different ethnicities to help deal with racial abuses as it would make the victim feel easier if they can talk to someone of a similar ethnicity. Same with female officers and rape victims, it just makes sense don't it?

[TURKISH]

police force is a bit different though; you need cops of different ethnicities to help deal with racial abuses as it would make the victim feel easier if they can talk to someone of a similar ethnicity. Same with female officers and rape victims, it just makes sense don't it?

I get what you mean but i hope they aren't cutting corners on the the requirements to become a police officer, firefighter by picking people of a different ethnic even though somebody else is better than them but don't have the skin colour required.

It makes them look hypercrites when they offer ethnic people jobs to prove there not being overlooked by race but then do exacly what they were doing before but to white people.

Just give the jobs to the best people required for that field.

[choda]

My dad has gotten really into the golf in the last ten years and last night he was telling me that the south korean's are taking over women's golf.. and then he made a comment that they are puck ugly, small and fat. So I started slagging him saying that is racist.

So then he goes is it racist to say that the south korean tour lost all it's tv revenue as nobody was watching it for the same reason? I said 'yea, probably', just for the craic, and he started laughing.

But then I said, 'in fairness for me racism is denying somebody their individual rights because of their race etc. but other things are just telling the truth unless it is wildly inaccurate'.

[Indianspur]

I think we could do with more asian players in the divisions.
im sure theres some talent out there cause i played with lots of asians in manchester and preston week in week out, even though i thought i was the best.
problem with a lot of asian players is they tend to play a lot of 5aside football therefore do not get down and dirty playing in the sunday league, which means sliding and heading is especially ignored.
i think racial integration is also a lot better now so grass roots football should hopefully allow more asians into the game with being called paki at the lower levels in now becoming extinct.

[mjbmedia]

I think Ince's main point was:

Keano walks into the rich and well supported club of Sunderland no questions asked...

Ince had to start low and build his way up. He's not saying it's impossible for black ex-footballers to manage, just that its way harder and they start from unequal starting points.
thing is Keane was Quinns best mate sort of things, and when Quinn screwed up ,Keane was the natural takeover.
Ince is who's best mate ?

[choda]

thing is Keane was Quinns best mate sort of things, and when Quinn screwed up ,Keane was the natural takeover.
Ince is who's best mate ?

He was nowhere near his best mate, mjb. They had a bad falling out over the wc 2002 and they were not even speaking. They just patched it up when Quinny was offering the job, but there is truth in saying that Quinny had close hand knowledge of how good Roy could be.

In his autobiography he said, 'you used to steel a glance at Roy before the matches in the tunnel and that, it would inspire you, he is a leader of men and his underestimated knowledge of the game is matched by in my experience an unrivalled ability to say to a player in one sentence what usually takes other coaches 20 minutes.'

Ince looks rather good too, much like Roy he is a character that seems like players would want to play for and he has done very well so far and I'm told his teams play lovely football. Seems to know his stuff and it will be interesting to see how he does at Blackburn.

It will also be interesting to see how far Keane can take sunderland.

[jrio]

No.

Studies have shown that few take the qualification. But people can turn that round and say they don't take the quals because they are black and think / know they won't get offered anything.

On a side note, didn't Ince choose to start off at the very bottom. I know he was rejected for the Wolves job but wasn't he offered something at another Championship side...?
Yes, he was a player at Wolves and applied for the job but it was given to Mick McCarthy. I don't recall another Championship side offering him a job, as he took the Macclesfield job soon after.

[jrio]

I get what you mean but i hope they aren't cutting corners on the the requirements to become a police officer, firefighter by picking people of a different ethnic even though somebody else is better than them but don't have the skin colour required.

It makes them look hypercrites when they offer ethnic people jobs to prove there not being overlooked by race but then do exacly what they were doing before but to white people.

Just give the jobs to the best people required for that field.

Nobody gets to be a police officer, firefighter just because they're black, or yellow or green. The requirements haven't been lowered. Historically there had always been a problem with employers excluding people from even being considered for an interview because they had African sounding names, most clearly shown when journalists sent identical CVs for jobs, and in most cases only the English sounding one was considered for an interview.

[singapore spur]

I think we could do with more asian players in the divisions.
im sure theres some talent out there cause i played with lots of asians in manchester and preston week in week out, even though i thought i was the best.
problem with a lot of asian players is they tend to play a lot of 5aside football therefore do not get down and dirty playing in the sunday league, which means sliding and heading is especially ignored.
i think racial integration is also a lot better now so grass roots football should hopefully allow more asians into the game with being called paki at the lower levels in now becoming extinct.

i understood the problem with the lack of asian guys making the grade at pro level has been largely down to the fact that they have different priorities at the really important years of football developement (i.e 14-17) ,mainly down to parental and family pressure to focus on study and on a more professsional career wether its medicine , commerce , legal etc