Paul Kemsley

[Defoe8]

I was bored so I made this thread.

Was watching the Apprentice tonight and Alan (I don't have to call him Sir if I don't want to) had his 4 stooges interview the candidates.

One of them was that cave man Kemsely, (he couldn't even be bothered to have a shave for the interview) and quite frankly his interviews were apalling, he criticised them for silly reasons and when he asked them a question he spoke over them when they were trying to answer.

Anyway it brought back bad memories of when he was at the club, always sticking his nose in where it didn't belong and influencing Levy like there was no 2mrw, but worst of all made life as hard as possible for MJ during his entire reign. So glad he left the club, new nowt about how to run a football club and was an arrogant tosser.

[mjbmedia]

yep, But Sir Alan loves him cos hes a common tosser done good, no class , no style, just like Alan.

Dont know why nobody in the interviews (including the other series) have ever stood up to the interviewers and had a pop back, i certainly would and i think thats also what Sugar would like to see, someone with enough self pride not to be spoken to like shit by some supposed better person.

[yid4life]

I know what you mean...... if I was in that interview room i would of jumped over the table and nutted the ****!

Not because the whole spurs issue but because hes speaks to people like shit

[Baleinho]

Hes just a fat, big headed ****. end of.

[TURKISH]

Its kemsleys fault for us not buying dunne!

[yid4life]

Its kemsleys fault for us not buying dunne!

Why? Ive not heard that, please tell me more

[TURKISH]

Why? Ive not heard that, please tell me more

No just a joke its seems when ever paul appears on the apprentice he gets stick and when something happens donw the line its his fault like the jol sacking.

I enjoy watching him on the apprentice. Damn i love that show! Lee to win!:cool:

[peterc]

No just a joke its seems when ever paul appears on the apprentice he gets stick and when something happens donw the line its his fault like the jol sacking.

I enjoy watching him on the apprentice. Damn i love that show! Lee to win!:cool:

He was the main culprit who started the anti -Jol campaign within the board members.

[mydadspants]

He was the main culprit who started the anti -Jol campaign within the board members.

Who Was? Lee?

[Indianspur]

yeh lee's a knobjockey ;)

[peterc]

Who Was? Lee?

hahaha, so funny.

[deadleyledley]

anyone watch you're fired.
it shows him and claire having it for each other.

[TURKISH]

He was the main culprit who started the anti -Jol campaign within the board members.

Theres no evidence to support this claim imo jol's wrong doings were his own. Even if kemsley was the main culprt i think we should be thanking him as we now have a boss who knows how to win big games, trophys nd bring in top players.

If jol was still here would santos and modric be willing to come?

Ramos stock is as high as wengers, ferguson, jose, benitez ect. Jol still has alot to prove as a manager.

[Keanoldinho]

Theres no evidence to support this claim imo jol's wrong doings were his own. Even if kemsley was the main culprt i think we should be thanking him as we now have a boss who knows how to win big games, trophys nd bring in top players.

If jol was still here would santos and modric be willing to come?

Ramos stock is as high as wengers, ferguson, jose, benitez ect. Jol still has alot to prove as a manager.



Ramos is a ****ing legend I just hope he stays here for many years to come. The man is better than all the hype he came with. I don't think his regime have signed a bad player yet even Gilberto has showed glimpses of his class whipping in quality crosses the few games he's played our forwards look shocked when a good ball gets whipped into the box.

[peterc]

Theres no evidence to support this claim imo jol's wrong doings were his own. Even if kemsley was the main culprt i think we should be thanking him as we now have a boss who knows how to win big games, trophys nd bring in top players.

If jol was still here would santos and modric be willing to come?

Ramos stock is as high as wengers, ferguson, jose, benitez ect. Jol still has alot to prove as a manager.

Jol did make mistakes but still managed to get us fifth position twice, no coincidence, he also managed to get us ninth place during his first season when he took over from Santini when players were coming and going, Ramos managed eleventh, okay we won the CC. Jol also managed to get Berba, so I think that he is respected by players. Ramos is a good manager but he needs to get us into CL this season, the two to three seasons wait is over, most clubs want instant success. By the way, Kemsley, himself had admitted that he was not keen on BMJ and wanted him replaced.

[LifeTimeYido]

Ramos managed eleventh.

I kid you not, that was a good achievement considering where we were when he took over and the fact the CC was won in FEB, it could have been much much worse.

Jol ****ed up badly and not just the season gone either, he made way too many tactical foo-bars, whether Kemsley wanted him gone or not, Jol was the architect of his own downfall.

Jol had respect in his native Netherlands - Ramos has it the world over, that is what is bringing and will bring the bigger named players to WHL.

[peterc]

I kid you not, that was a good achievement considering where we were when he took over and the fact the CC was won in FEB, it could have been much much worse.

Practically the same squad, with the exception of three players, managed to achieve fifth position twice. One would have thought that with Ramos's calibre, he would have managed to turn things around and achieve a respectable position in the PL, top six could have been achieved' experimenting after the CC cost us quite a few points. Don't get me wrong, I'm not runnig Ramos down, maybe I and others expected too much.

Jol ****ed up badly and not just the season gone either, he made way too many tactical foo-bars, whether Kemsley wanted him gone or not, Jol was the architect of his own downfall.

Jol did make mistakes and so do many other managers. however, to achieve fifth position twice is no coincidence. Kemsley was the main influence who wanted Jol out.

Jol had respect in his native Netherlands - Ramos has it the world over, that is what is bringing and will bring the bigger named players to WHL.

Hamburg is a German squad, Jol was respected throughout Europe and he also turned down other offers both in the UK and overseas. Some seem to have a short memory, Jol built the foundation and Ramos, hopefully will continue strengthening the squad.

[LifeTimeYido]

Practically the same squad, with the exception of three players, managed to achieve fifth position twice.

Ah so you expect Ramos to take over a squad demoralised by poor results, whose confidence was at an all time low, and to stamp his own brand of football, with players he never chose in the 1st place, and achieve the same results, thats a tad naive.

Lets face facts, we won the CC due them being one off matches and it was our best entry into Europe, thats easier to motivate the players.

experimenting after the CC cost us quite a few points.


Yes it did, it was done because there was no way to motivate the players and there was nothing else to play for.

Any manager that takes over a team will probably never achieve the same results with the same players that his predecessor picked.

Jose, Wenger certainly didnt, Hughes wont at man city either and neither will Ramos.

[TURKISH]

Jol did make mistakes but still managed to get us fifth position twice, no coincidence, he also managed to get us ninth place during his first season when he took over from Santini when players were coming and going, Ramos managed eleventh, okay we won the CC. Jol also managed to get Berba, so I think that he is respected by players. Ramos is a good manager but he needs to get us into CL this season, the two to three seasons wait is over, most clubs want instant success. By the way, Kemsley, himself had admitted that he was not keen on BMJ and wanted him replaced.

Jol got two place 5th finishes and a 9th place finish in a different season and different time to ramos. Who knows ramos could of done better in the same situation and vice versa.

To jols two 5th place finishes ramos took a club not so different from ours and won them two uefa cups, uefa super cup, copel del rey and a supercopa de espana. Ask the lads what they rather 5th place or win a trophy at wembley against teams like chelsea? Even jol said he rather cups than 5th place. Oh yes and seville nearly won the spanish league of the final day of the season and ql for champions league with the help of a jol reject kanoute.

When ramos took over his goal was to get uefa cup place which he did, Steady the ship which he did, bring in players for key areas which he did. As a bonus he won us a carling cup after beating arsenal in the semi and than beating a full strength chelsea side in the final.

He allready done what was asked of him and more and jol when jol first took over and got us to 9th jol was part of the backroom staff so he new the players inside out and was working with them on a daily basis so he had an advantage to juande imo.

Players are willing to snub chelsea and arsenal ect because of ramos woody, santos, modric and hutton.

Just my opinion but jol hasn't the experience of what juande has or will likely to have. I rather 6 trophys than to two 5th place finishes.

[peterc]

[QUOTE=LifeTimeYido;89819]Ah so you expect Ramos to take over a squad demoralised by poor results, whose confidence was at an all time low, and to stamp his own brand of football, with players he never chose in the 1st place, and achieve the same results, thats a tad naive.

Tad naive, but, other managers have been in similar situations and have managed to turn things around, as I said that I expected better from Ramos, maybe I expected too much.

Lets face facts, we won the CC due them being one off matches and it was our best entry into Europe, thats easier to motivate the players.

I don't think it was a one off, it was more that we played with the determination and believe that helped us win the CC.

Yes it did, it was done because there was no way to motivate the players and there was nothing else to play for.

Any manager that takes over a team will probably never achieve the same results with the same players that his predecessor picked.

Jose, Wenger certainly didnt, Hughes wont at man city either and neither will Ramos.

As I aready have mentioned in my previous post, most investors in the game want instant rewards, ie: waiting for two to three seasons times seem to be over with the top squads. Look what happened to Sven, Frank, Avran, need I mention a few more.

[peterc]

TURKISH;89822]Jol got two place 5th finishes and a 9th place finish in a different season and different time to ramos. Who knows ramos could of done better in the same situation and vice versa.

To jols two 5th place finishes ramos took a club not so different from ours and won them two uefa cups, uefa super cup, copel del rey and a supercopa de espana. Ask the lads what they rather 5th place or win a trophy at wembley against teams like chelsea? Even jol said he rather cups than 5th place. Oh yes and seville nearly won the spanish league of the final day of the season and ql for champions league with the help of a jol reject kanoute.


That is an unfair statement, Kanoute preferred playing a few friendlies for Mali than play for Spurs, that was the reason why he was sold.

When ramos took over his goal was to get uefa cup place which he did, Steady the ship which he did, bring in players for key areas which he did. As a bonus he won us a carling cup after beating arsenal in the semi and than beating a full strength chelsea side in the final.

He allready done what was asked of him and more and jol when jol first took over and got us to 9th jol was part of the backroom staff so he new the players inside out and was working with them on a daily basis so he had an advantage to juande imo.

Players are willing to snub chelsea and arsenal ect because of ramos woody, santos, modric and hutton.

Just my opinion but jol hasn't the experience of what juande has or will likely to have. I rather 6 trophys than to two 5th place finishes.


You don't seem to understand my point, I am not saying that Jol was a better manager than Ramos. I am saying I expected a much better position in the Premiership under Ramos's management, we could have ended up top six when Ramos took over.

[LifeTimeYido]

As I aready have mentioned in my previous post, most investors in the game want instant rewards, ie: waiting for two to three seasons times seem to be over with the top squads. Look what happened to Sven, Frank, Avran, need I mention a few more.

Yeah, but that is not sustainable, Shinawatra, Roman, and the "The millions i put into the club, i want success now" breed WILL get bored, leave and will place them in a dire mess.

Levy is nothing like those scumbags, whilst im not his greatest fan, our club is well looked after, Jol knew what he had to achieve and the timeframe, blew it and lost his job because of poor performances, poor tactical decisions and rubbish results.

Sven and Avram lost thiers becasue of arsehole owners.

THFC is nothing like that.

You don't seem to understand my point, I am not saying that Jol was a better manager than Ramos. I am saying I expected a much better position in the Premiership under Ramos's management, we could have ended up top six when Ramos took over.

I understand that point perfectly, and im saying thats unrealistic, the team was in an awfull state when he took over, the CC win was the best we could have expected, to expect more than that in such a short space of time is as i said a tad naive.

[peterc]

Yeah, but that is not sustainable, Shinawatra, Roman, and the "The millions i put into the club, i want success now" breed WILL get bored, leave and will place them in a dire mess.

Levy is nothing like those scumbags, whilst im not his greatest fan, our club is well looked after, Jol knew what he had to achieve and the timeframe, blew it and lost his job because of poor performances, poor tactical decisions and rubbish results.

Sven and Avram lost thiers becasue of arsehole owners.

THFC is nothing like that.

I hope you are right, however, I would not hold my breath on it. If Mr Lewis demands instant success to try and make up for his losses, Levy will have no power to do any different.

[Keanoldinho]

Jol did make mistakes but still managed to get us fifth position twice, no coincidence, he also managed to get us ninth place during his first season when he took over from Santini when players were coming and going, Ramos managed eleventh, okay we won the CC. Jol also managed to get Berba, so I think that he is respected by players. Ramos is a good manager but he needs to get us into CL this season, the two to three seasons wait is over, most clubs want instant success. By the way, Kemsley, himself had admitted that he was not keen on BMJ and wanted him replaced.


Jol did a good job while he was here in his first 2 full seasons but Ramos took over a club in 18th place that couldn't buy a win that's how Jol left us. He might of helped get Berby but by the time he left Berby wanted to get shot of him too because he'd officially lost the plot.

Jol might of got us 9th in his first season but we weren't in such a bad situation when Jol took over and he speaks alot better English and had already worked with the players for awhile. Ramos on the other hand might of finished 11th but he turned the team right around got us well away from the relegation battle and beat the tar out of our 2 biggest rivals on the way to cup glory.

On the topic of Jols two 5th place finishes well although they were great achievements fact remains he didn't leave us in 5th and while all the other top to mid-table teams were strengthening their squads we were buying abunch of duds and making no positive progress infact we were moving backwards.

You can't blame Kemsley for Jols down fall he did it too himself through bad tactics and a lack of disciplen. Two fifth place finishes were great but that same squad with 40 extra mil pumped into it had turned to shit and were relegation candidates before Jol left that's why he got the boot. Ramos on the other hand came in turned us around and we had our most succesful season since '99 and you can already see the "Ramos effect" in the transfer market top quality player used to turn us down for more money now they're turning down more money to work with a winner at a special club. Ramos is a legend he's putting Tottenham back were it belongs lifting trophies.

[peterc]

Jol did a good job while he was here in his first 2 full seasons but Ramos took over a club in 18th place that couldn't buy a win that's how Jol left us. He might of helped get Berby but by the time he left Berby wanted to get shot of him too because he'd officially lost the plot.

Jol could not give 100% with the ongoings behind the scene, Kemsley was one of the officials in Spain meeting Ramos's representative, and Levy stated that he was not aware or given any authorisation on such a meeting, this was last August/September, barely after two games played in the season. How would one expect Jol and the players to respond positively under such circumstances, he only stayed on to get his compensation packet, as any human would do.

Jol might of got us 9th in his first season but we weren't in such a bad situation when Jol took over and he speaks alot better English and had already worked with the players for awhile. Ramos on the other hand might of finished 11th but he turned the team right around got us well away from the relegation battle and beat the tar out of our 2 biggest rivals on the way to cup glory.

Well we were not in a good position after Hoddle's and Pleat's fiasco, then Santini, players did not know who was coming and who was going, however, Jol still managed to manage the team to ninth position. I agree that Ramos is a good manager, however, I expected that he would manage to achieve a better Premiership position.

On the topic of Jols two 5th place finishes well although they were great achievements fact remains he didn't leave us in 5th and while all the other top to mid-table teams were strengthening their squads we were buying abunch of duds and making no positive progress infact we were moving backwards.

He managed to turn things around the season prior from bottom half to finish fifth position. Was he given enough time?, no one will ever know whether he would have been able to turn things around again.

You can't blame Kemsley for Jols down fall he did it too himself through bad tactics and a lack of disciplen. Two fifth place finishes were great but that same squad with 40 extra mil pumped into it had turned to shit and were relegation candidates before Jol left that's why he got the boot. Ramos on the other hand came in turned us around and we had our most succesful season since '99 and you can already see the "Ramos effect" in the transfer market top quality player used to turn us down for more money now they're turning down more money to work with a winner at a special club. Ramos is a legend he's putting Tottenham back were it belongs lifting trophies.

Yes. I do blame Kemsley for starting the turmpoil within the club that affected the manager and players, so Kemsley does have alot to answer to. Ramos has to deliver this coming season, oresle if Mr Lewis is still around, I would not be surprised that we will be looking for another manager. Mr Lewis only cares about making profit, bearing in mind he needs to recover from his loss in his Stearns investment.

[Keanoldinho]

[

Jol could not give 100% with the ongoings behind the scene, Kemsley was one of the officials in Spain meeting Ramos's representative, and Levy stated that he was not aware or given any authorisation on such a meeting, this was last August/September, barely after two games played in the season. How would one expect Jol and the players to respond positively under such circumstances, he only stayed on to get his compensation packet, as any human would do.



Well we were not in a good position after Hoddle's and Pleat's fiasco, then Santini, players did not know who was coming and who was going, however, Jol still managed to manage the team to ninth position. I agree that Ramos is a good manager, however, I expected that he would manage to achieve a better Premiership position.


He managed to turn things around the season prior from bottom half to finish fifth position. Was he given enough time?, no one will ever know whether he would have been able to turn things around again.



Yes. I do blame Kemsley for starting the turmpoil within the club that affected the manager and players, so Kemsley does have alot to answer to. Ramos has to deliver this coming season, oresle if Mr Lewis is still around, I would not be surprised that we will be looking for another manager. Mr Lewis only cares about making profit, bearing in mind he needs to recover from his loss in his Stearns investment.[/QUOTE]


We were in a much worse position when Ramos took over than when Jol took over that's just a fact you can't argue with. Ramos had a much bigger challenge ahead of him and he achieved all his objectives did Jol get us European football when he took over winning a trophy? No he didn't.

If you're not top 4 league position means pretty much nothing trophies and silverware are everything. Our problem is we've got abunch of big-headed players who think they're better than they really are like JJ, Lennon and Hudd mostly the younger English kids they're idiots with big potential but not enough drive or ambition to reach it that's why Ramos is replacing them.

Jol brought about his own down fall with not enough disciplen(ffs I can't spell that word) and a lack of learning from his mistakes and tactical crapiness. Regardless of all the off field shite he's getting paid big money to produce on the pitch that's were his job is and he failed miserably in the end. You can blame who you want but Jol failed to get results and there were no signs of change that's why he got the boot.

[peterc]

We were in a much worse position when Ramos took over than when Jol took over that's just a fact you can't argue with. Ramos had a much bigger challenge ahead of him and he achieved all his objectives did Jol get us European football when he took over winning a trophy? No he didn't.

Jol took us to Europe twice through our position in the premership. To me that is a much harder route than winning the CC.

If you're not top 4 league position means pretty much nothing trophies and silverware are everything. Our problem is we've got abunch of big-headed players who think they're better than they really are like JJ, Lennon and Hudd mostly the younger English kids they're idiots with big potential but not enough drive or ambition to reach it that's why Ramos is replacing them.

I don't think that Ramos will be replacing JJ, more like building up around him in the midfield area.

Jol brought about his own down fall with not enough disciplen(ffs I can't spell that word) and a lack of learning from his mistakes and tactical crapiness. Regardless of all the off field shite he's getting paid big money to produce on the pitch that's were his job is and he failed miserably in the end. You can blame who you want but Jol failed to get results and there were no signs of change that's why he got the boot.

Jol did make a few tactical errors, however, Kemsley's influence to the board and chairman and Jol being to pally with players was his main failure not to move up the next step. Players seemed to treat him more of a mate than their gaffer.

[Keanoldinho]

[

Jol took us to Europe twice through our position in the premership. To me that is a much harder route than winning the CC.


I don't think that Ramos will be replacing JJ, more like building up around him in the midfield area.



Jol did make a few tactical errors, however, Kemsley's influence to the board and chairman and Jol being to pally with players was his main failure not to move up the next step. Players seemed to treat him more of a mate than their gaffer.[/QUOTE]


I was talking about immediate impact in their first semi season in charge Ramos won us a trophy and got us European football while embarassing the 2 scums along the way Jol got us 9th place and that's it. Ramos first season will go down in the history books Jols won't none of his really will because he won nought.

[peterc]

I was talking about immediate impact in their first semi season in charge Ramos won us a trophy and got us European football while embarassing the 2 scums along the way Jol got us 9th place and that's it. Ramos first season will go down in the history books Jols won't none of his really will because he won nought.

Winning us the CC, fair enough, but not finishig eleventh in the PL. Lets call it agree to disagree.]

[TURKISH]

That is an unfair statement, Kanoute preferred playing a few friendlies for Mali than play for Spurs, that was the reason why he was sold.



You don't seem to understand my point, I am not saying that Jol was a better manager than Ramos. I am saying I expected a much better position in the Premiership under Ramos's management, we could have ended up top six when Ramos took over.

The african nation? Why can't he play for his country?


I think your being very disrespectfull to alot of teams by saying we should of expected 6th when its nearly christmas time and were 18th or 19th with 1 win. We can't give teams a 20point head start we are not good enough to reduce the difference.

[peterc]

[QUOTE=TURKISH;89853]The african nation? Why can't he play for his country?

If I recall correctly, it was prior to the African Nations Cup.

I think your being very disrespectfull to alot of teams by saying we should of expected 6th when its nearly christmas time and were 18th or 19th with 1 win. We can't give teams a 20point head start we are not good enough to reduce the difference.
Christmas 2006, we were sixteenth and were similar in points but ended up fifth position, and that is a fact, how can I be disrepectful to other teams, what are you on Turkish?:( :confused:

[TURKISH]

[

If I recall correctly, it was prior to the African Nations Cup.


Christmas 2006, we were sixteenth and were similar in points but ended up fifth position, and that is a fact, how can I be disrepectful to other teams, what are you on Turkish?:( :confused:

Teams have come along way now pete last season is a different season to the last. Everything not black and white. Everton are a force, city are a force, villa are a force, pompey are a force, blackburn are a force, west ham are a force and 20 point leads are hard to claw back.

Kanoute went to the african nation and nothing is wrong with that. Would jol moan if he was dutch? He new kanoute was leaving and should of dealt with it.

[peterc]

Teams have come along way now pete last season is a different season to the last. Everything not black and white. Everton are a force, city are a force, villa are a force, pompey are a force, blackburn are a force, west ham are a force and 20 point leads are hard to claw back.

Other teams were forces last season but we stilll managed to climb up that table and finish in the top six. We shall see how we perform this coming season, but the board will expect CL qualification.

Kanoute went to the african nation and nothing is wrong with that. Would jol moan if he was dutch? He new kanoute was leaving and should of dealt with it.

Kanoute preferred to play a couple of friendly games than play for his employer, I think you might out that the board decided to sell Kanoute and not Jol.

[singapore spur]

in peters defence , i too am a little disappointed with the league finish , maybe not so much in the actual position more the fact that ramos wasnt seemingly able to motivate the team as a whole after the c.c . wether we had anything realistically to play for or not . ( aside from a couple of games ) .
the fact that ramos couldnt inspire the team, i think though speaks more of some of the players than ramos's ability as a coach and im guessing that some, if not many have blown their chance with him and we can only judge ramos come the end of the coming season , when he has his own team in place .

[olly27]

Interesting thread and I am in complete agreement with Turkish and Keano. For christ sake Ramos didn't speak English when he came to this club, and look what he has achieved in his first year in English football. Feck the league it was over 12 games in, and its so competitive now there wasn't a chance in hell we were going to finish top 6. People keep saying we had a bad start, we were 12 games in, thats a third of a season! bit more than a bad start if you ask me! Anyway Ramos stated his aims and intentions and guess what he achieved them in style. Fisrt things he said when he came to the club were to get the club away from the relegation zone and to try for a cup to gain entry for Europe. Well done Juande as you achieved this. Ramos has to be allowed to construct a team which will implement his vision and philosohpy's before being judged. Its totally unreasonable to say I expected more from Ramos in the premiership given the circumstances we were in at the time he took the job. Obviously the spot light will be a lot brighter this season and rightly so, he's had some time now and of course he will be making changes to (over-hauling if all the rumours are to be believed!) the squad, to his liking, over the course of the summer. After the CC win we were never going to finish higher than tenth anyway, yeah it would of been nice but to the hell with it we one a cup for the first time in nine years. Put things in perspective a bit.

As for Jol, as someone has already mentioned, he was the architect of his own downfall. Do we really know exactly what goes on behind closed doors at board level? Of course some things come out and these form opinions to speculate about everything and anything. At the end of the day Jol was a professional and getting paid extremely handsomely for doing what he was doing, so I dont get the dramtic sympathy some people have. Yes it wasn't handled correctly and he did well for us but there was a ceiling there in terms of his management ability. I liked Jol, as we all did, but he never had the managerial acumen to make us real contenders, his likeability even clouded my judgement to an extent until mistakes became more frequent. The board had reservations regarding his ability and of course took the necessary action. The difference being they had to get it right this time as Jol was so popular, and they certainly did with Ramos...so far anyway...the rest remains to be seen but I am more optimistic with Ramas at the helm than I have been for many years.

[peterc]

[QUOTE=olly27;89901]Interesting thread and I am in complete agreement with Turkish and Keano. For christ sake Ramos didn't speak English when he came to this club, and look what he has achieved in his first year in English football. Feck the league it was over 12 games in, and its so competitive now there wasn't a chance in hell we were going to finish top 6. People keep saying we had a bad start, we were 12 games in, thats a third of a season! bit more than a bad start if you ask me! Anyway Ramos stated his aims and intentions and guess what he achieved them in style. Fisrt things he said when he came to the club were to get the club away from the relegation zone and to try for a cup to gain entry for Europe. Well done Juande as you achieved this. Ramos has to be allowed to construct a team which will implement his vision and philosohpy's before being judged. Its totally unreasonable to say I expected more from Ramos in the premiership given the circumstances we were in at the time he took the job. Obviously the spot light will be a lot brighter this season and rightly so, he's had some time now and of course he will be making changes to (over-hauling if all the rumours are to be believed!) the squad, to his liking, over the course of the summer. After the CC win we were never going to finish higher than tenth anyway, yeah it would of been nice but to the hell with it we one a cup for the first time in nine years. Put things in perspective a bit.



Poyet, assistant manager speaks and understands English, so I think we can exclude that excuse. If so, not unreasonable to expect us to finsih top ten at least, afterall, practically the same team managed to turn things around under Jol's management twice and finish fifth, This argument can go on for ever, some of us expected a better finish to the season, some might think it is unreasonable others might not. Great winning the CC, here again with most of Jol's chosen players. So we can win the CC but could not improve on our league position, a manager should take some responsibitly for not doing so.

As for Jol, as someone has already mentioned, he was the architect of his own downfall. Do we really know exactly what goes on behind closed doors at board level? Of course some things come out and these form opinions to speculate about everything and anything. At the end of the day Jol was a professional and getting paid extremely handsomely for doing what he was doing, so I dont get the dramtic sympathy some people have. Yes it wasn't handled correctly and he did well for us but there was a ceiling there in terms of his management ability. I liked Jol, as we all did, but he never had the managerial acumen to make us real contenders, his likeability even clouded my judgement to an extent until mistakes became more frequent. The board had reservations regarding his ability and of course took the necessary action. The difference being they had to get it right this time as Jol was so popular, and they certainly did with Ramos...so far anyway...the rest remains to be seen but I am more optimistic with Ramas at the helm than I have been for many years.

Don't get me wrong, Ramos is a good manager and came to Spurs with great credentials, however, I did feel disappointed that we did not finish off in a bettter position that was achieveable. This season will be all his chosen players and I hope that he will manage to achieve his goals, afterall, we don't want to have another manager replaced. It seems that the investors in this modern game all want instant success and instant profits.

[MiloMinderbinder]

[QUOTE]



Poyet, assistant manager speaks and understands English, so I think we can exclude that excuse. If so, not unreasonable to expect us to finsih top ten at least, afterall, practically the same team managed to turn things around under Jol's management twice and finish fifth, This arguement can go on for ever, some of us expected a better finish to the season, some might think it is unreasonable others might not. Great winning the CC, here again with most of Jol's chosen players. So we can win the CC but could not improve on our league position, a manager should take some responsibitly for not doing so.


Don't get me wrong, Ramos is a good manager and came to Spurs with great credentials, however, I did feel disappointed that we did not finish off in a bettter position that was achieveable. This season will be all his chosen players and I hope that he will manage to achieve his goals, afterall, we don't want to have another manager replaced. It seems that the investors in this modern game all want instant success and instant profits.

Let's use an analogy (he he I wrote anal) that's easy to follow; if you're given lego building blocks to work with it would be folly to expect to be able to build a structure to rival the Taj Mahal.

[peterc]

;) [QUOTE=peterc;89910]

Let's use an analogy (he he I wrote anal) that's easy to follow; if you're given lego building blocks to work with it would be folly to expect to be able to build a structure to rival the Taj Mahal.


So what you are saying is that Jol must have been a fantastic manager to achieve those positions with mediocre players.:p

[Keanoldinho]

Some people have very short memories or just overlook shit when it suits them. Forget the two 5th place finishes we got with Jol for a minute. We were in 18th place when Ramos took over 12 games into the season playing like absolute pish, some off the worst football I've ever witnessed from a Spurs team. Then Bale got injured and we were really ****ED. If Jol stayed we'd be in the fecking Championship that's how bad we were when he left us. We weren't a top 5 team we were relegation shite.

League position means nothing unless you're top 4 the players know this that's why they stopped playing 100% after we won the CC Cup. Very unprofessional and they're ****s for doing it but you can't blame Ramos because he didn't buy any of them overpaid toss pots. They'd all booked their holidays and none of the ******s wanted to get injured challenging for a 50-50 which made our already shite midfield even shitter sad but true.

[MiloMinderbinder]

;) [QUOTE=KingKeane;89912]


So what you are saying is that Jol must have been a fantastic manager to achieve those positions with mediocre players.:p

no, no I'm not.

Suffice to say not only did I never buy the "Jol's a genius" crap I was at the vanguard of the "Jol is a fat, negative, blustering, inadeqaute" movement.

[peterc]

[QUOTE=peterc;89916];)

no, no I'm not.

Suffice to say not only did I never buy the "Jol's a genius" crap I was at the vanguard of the "Jol is a fat, negative, blustering, inadeqaute" movement.

Amazing how such a fat, negative, blustering, inadequate movement achieves fifth position twice in one of the world's best Football leagues.:confused: :confused: ;)

[spurs61]

And *****ed £100 million + up the wall doing it.

[peterc]

And *****ed £100 million + up the wall doing it.

Well, time will tell, hopefuly Ramos will do better by spending less and achieving more trophies and top four in the premiership.