Stay or go: Zokora

[TURKISH]

Part two.

Next up zokora:

The Ivory Coast international starred in the 2006 World Cup in the extremely tough Group C which also featured Argentina and Holland.

The 25-year-old, a graduate of the ASEC Abidjan academy that has developed many of the current generation of Ivory Coast internationals, joined RC Genk of Belgium in 2000 and was a member of their title winning team of 2002.

After four years in Belgium he made the switch to France and went on to make 66 appearances for St Etienne, quickly becoming recognised as one of the leading midfield talents in Le Championnat.

Didier made quite an impression over the course of his first season, where he made 42 appearances and became something of a crowd favourite. A first goal is the next target for the combative and athletic midfielder.

[TURKISH]

For me can fill in two positions and i wouldn't mind him as back up for dm.

His work rate and pace is a usefull tool to have in a squad and i think we should keep hold of him for another season at least.

[berbzy 'G']

I want him to stay, But only if he doesn't mind coming on as a sub for a class midfielder that we could buy

[deadleyledley]

i dont think he is the sort of person for us.
in dm we need someone who can pass and this guy cant do that even though he is great at breaking up play

[hastingsyid]

voted GO,dont rate him tbh think we need alot better than him if we are to challenge top 4 next season and push on under ramos

[Spur]

Shocking player.

[peterc]

An asset to have in the team, hard worker, shame he can't shoot.

[Gino Ginelli]

I wouldn't bat an eye if he left.

To sum up my thoughts about the midfield from the last few years. We had 4 exceptional (IMO) central midfielders at one stage, in Carrick, Mendes, Sean Davis, and Danny Murphy. All were hard working, proven, and had good technical ability.

Carrick now plays regurlarly in the Champions League and will win his second Premiership medal this season. Mendes and Davis are gonna win an FA Cup this year, get into the UEFA cup, and are having good seasons with Pompey. Murphy, ok he's at Fulham, but plays regular. (By the by, another old fave of mine, Simon Davies, is having a very good season according to the FF league).

Who do we have now? The inconsistent JJ, the technical but lumbering Hudd, the headless chicken that is the 'Zok' and the apparently forgotten Tainio.

That's why our midfield sucks now. And that's how rivals have edged away from us.

So I say get shot and bring me some proper players back!

[peterc]

I wouldn't bat an eye if he left.

[QUOTE]To sum up my thoughts about the midfield from the last few years. We had 4 exceptional (IMO) central midfielders at one stage, in Carrick, Mendes, Sean Davis, and Danny Murphy. All were hard working, proven, and had good technical ability.

Carrick now plays regurlarly in the Champions League and will win his second Premiership medal this season. Mendes and Davis are gonna win an FA Cup this year, get into the UEFA cup, and are having good seasons with Pompey. Murphy, ok he's at Fulham, but plays regular. (By the by, another old fave of mine, Simon Davies, is having a very good season according to the FF league).

Not a regular in the Porstmouth, used more as a sub. Davis, Davies and Murphy were all surplus and did not spark at WHL. Davies was inconsistent.

Who do we have now? The inconsistent JJ, the technical but lumbering Hudd, the headless chicken that is the 'Zok' and the apparently forgotten Tainio.



JJ has shown that he has potential, unfortunately he is not consistent. Zokora is another hard worker, his main weak point is he cannot shoot.

That's why our midfield sucks now. And that's how rivals have edged away from us

Agree they have had their bad moments, same could be said about our defence.


So I say get shot and bring me some proper players back!


Agree bringing in a couple of midfielders but not a complete clearout.

[Spur]

An asset to have in the team, hard worker, shame he can't shoot.

Or pass, or header, or command, or tackle, or control the ball.

Other than that - top player!

[Spur]

I wouldn't bat an eye if he left.

To sum up my thoughts about the midfield from the last few years. We had 4 exceptional (IMO) central midfielders at one stage, in Carrick, Mendes, Sean Davis, and Danny Murphy. All were hard working, proven, and had good technical ability.

Carrick now plays regurlarly in the Champions League and will win his second Premiership medal this season. Mendes and Davis are gonna win an FA Cup this year, get into the UEFA cup, and are having good seasons with Pompey. Murphy, ok he's at Fulham, but plays regular. (By the by, another old fave of mine, Simon Davies, is having a very good season according to the FF league).

Who do we have now? The inconsistent JJ, the technical but lumbering Hudd, the headless chicken that is the 'Zok' and the apparently forgotten Tainio.

That's why our midfield sucks now. And that's how rivals have edged away from us.

So I say get shot and bring me some proper players back!

Alot of that is very correct.

Davis was never given a chance but compared to what we have now definately better. Mendes I never liked much but again, much better than what we have now. Says alot doesn't it?

It was put across the other day, someone said 'is Zokora better than Davis?', to which someone replied 'is Zokora even better than Brown?' - :confused: :o :confused: :o

[peterc]

Or pass, or header, or command, or tackle, or control the ball.

Other than that - top player!

Another player that Spur does not like. He can pass, he can command when playing with stronger midfield players. Tackle and control of ball, I'd say most of the team has that problem, not just Zokora.:eek:

[TURKISH]

But top coaches continue to pick zokora.

I actually think zokora is better than davis, brown, mendes ect but still not good enough for a starting lineup next year.

I think he does a good job when he has jj, lennon and steed to bomb on and leave the dirty work to him.

Not the best player but can be effective.

[Spur]

Another player that Spur does not like. He can pass, he can command when playing with stronger midfield players. Tackle and control of ball, I'd say most of the team has that problem, not just Zokora.:eek:

Most Spurs fans don't like.

Tell me Pete, you big up our two central midfielders, Jermaine Jenas and Didier Zokora, and yet we have the weakest central midfield in the league if not the world.

They cannot dominate games against Blackpool or Getafe, so how can they be so good?

[TURKISH]

This will intrest you guys on the zokora front.

http://www.spursodyssey.com/0708/bl050408.html

A great thread and someone who i think knows what there talking about other than most sites.

[TURKISH]

Most Spurs fans don't like.

Tell me Pete, you big up our two central midfielders, Jermaine Jenas and Didier Zokora, and yet we have the weakest central midfield in the league if not the world.

They cannot dominate games against Blackpool or Getafe, so how can they be so good?

They dominate against chelsea lol. I know what you mean hit and miss but got to give credit where its due they were getting plaudits yesterday for there performance. I heard jj stuck out like a saw thumb.

[Spur]

But top coaches continue to pick zokora.

I actually think zokora is better than davis, brown, mendes ect but still not good enough for a starting lineup next year.

I think he does a good job when he has jj, lennon and steed to bomb on and leave the dirty work to him.

Not the best player but can be effective.

Real effective over the past two seasons hasn't it?

Two seasons in which the midfield has been the weakest point of the entire squads and completely dominated by inferior opposition.

Please can people stop using the 'top coaches continue to pick players' line.

Coaches continue to pick such clearly lacklustre players such as Titus Bramble. I rest my case.

[Spur]

They dominate against chelsea lol. I know what you mean hit and miss but got to give credit where its due they were getting plaudits yesterday for there performance. I heard jj stuck out like a saw thumb.

That probably underlines the biggest problem of this here midfield in actual fact.

[TURKISH]

Real effective over the past two seasons hasn't it?

Two seasons in which the midfield has been the weakest point of the entire squads and completely dominated by inferior opposition.

Please can people stop using the 'top coaches continue to pick players' line.

Coaches continue to pick such clearly lacklustre players such as Titus Bramble. I rest my case.

Since steve bruce has been gaffer he hasn't picked him and wigan are all nearly but safe.

Well over the last two season our midfield got us to 5th place.

To me when you play zokora and hudd it doesn't work and when you play hudd and who ever against competitive teams it doesn't work.

Until this season ends jj and zokora/tt is our best lineup imo.

Zokora hasn't been the best signing and we need to do better but he has had his moments this season where he has looked great.

[Spur]

Since steve bruce has been gaffer he hasn't picked him and wigan are all nearly but safe.

Well over the last two season our midfield got us to 5th place.

To me when you play zokora and hudd it doesn't work and when you play hudd and who ever against competitive teams it doesn't work.

Until this season ends jj and zokora/tt is our best lineup imo.
Think you'll find a player called Carrick was here for one of those seasons.

And since he hasn't been here and Jenas and Zokora have been numero unó we've conceded 20 more goals a season than under our friend Mikey. Wonderful defending. To the point where people say that Didier is our DM, and even for a month or two earlier this year people saying that Jenas was!? Ludicrous.

They are clearly not good enough, and as such they either need to improve significantly over the summer and beyond (especially with consistency) or be replaced.

The article you give is one game. I was down Chalrton the other week, Kelly Youga played like shit. I said this to some Charlton Coaches a couple weeks later and they said he was one of their best players, that he had a bad game - who am I to argue, they go every week, I went one week against the best team in the division. Still looked shit though. Couldn't do anything right it seemed.

Zokora hasn't been the best signing and we need to do better but he has had his moments this season where he has looked great.

Everyone has their moments. Paul Robinson and Radek Cerny have had their moments when they have shown they are capable of being the best keepers in the world. Doesn't mean they are, does it? Ever heard the expression "Youtube can make anyone look good". It applies here.

[TURKISH]

hey im not saying zokora is a world beater im just saying he played really well and give credit where its due.

I don't want him dm next season. We need to do better than him and hpefully who ever we bring in will have the same effect than what carrick has done.

You said two season and this season isn't over yet so i counted the season with carrick. We still never got to see the carrick and jj partnership for over 30 plus games which is annoying considering we looked like we were pushing on.

We need a strog defensive base and a strong centre in our starting lineup.

If we can keep king, woody, jj, new dm, keano and berba all fit for large parts of the season than we should get 60 plus points next year.

Im just looking forward to next season but if the shit players give there all then i will never slag them off. I never slag lee off because he trys and does his best. Same with zokora but hudd to me is lazy and i can't stand lazy overweight players.

Our whole cm is not good enough and when our defence is changing everyweek that will not help either.

Lets hope we sign quality not quantity this summer.

[Spur]

Our whole cm is not good enough and when our defence is changing everyweek that will not help either.
That's something that we will have to get used to.

Remember when Juande came to the Lane last year he put a left winger at left back.

Lets hope we sign quality not quantity this summer.
Amen to that brother.

[peterc]

Most Spurs fans don't like.

Says who, you and a few others?

Tell me Pete, you big up our two central midfielders, Jermaine Jenas and Didier Zokora, and yet we have the weakest central midfield in the league if not the world.

As Turkish has correctly answered you, results speak for themself, against the scum 5-1, against the spammers 4-0, CC against the Chel$ki. or were all these just coincidence?.

They cannot dominate games against Blackpool or Getafe, so how can they be so good?

Funny how they managed to do so against stronger teams, answer me that one Spur.

[Spur]

Funny how they managed to do so against stronger teams, answer me that one Spur.

Oh that's alright then. Keep them for the next ten years because they can beat Arsenal or Chelsea and such once a season but get outdone by Birmingham and Newcastle and such for fun.

Better players are needed. Only a fool would debate it. YOU SAY results speak for themselves, well seeing as we've not won half our games at home this year, and all but two away from the Lane, they are clearly saying we are not good enough. Unless you like 11th and think it's good.

As I posted the other day elsewhere, we are conceeding just as many under Juande as we were under Jol, and conceding bundles more since we strengthened our backline with two new and better players - therefore the problem STILL lies within the middle part of the pitch as has been evident for well over a year.

At the start of the season I asked a simple question, i'll ask it again now to see if people are still deluded over the quality of our midfield or not.

[peterc]

Oh that's alright then. Keep them for the next ten years because they can beat Arsenal or Chelsea and such once a season but get outdone by Birmingham and Newcastle and such for fun.

You seem to love changing words around espeically when you get others disagreeing with you opinion, a forum is for all opinions, not just yours. No one has said that we don't need additions, yes we do but I would keep Zokora, if necessary as a sub.

Better players are needed. Only a fool would debate it. YOU SAY results speak for themselves, well seeing as we've not won half our games at home this year, and all but two away from the Lane, they are clearly saying we are not good enough. Unless you like 11th and think it's good.


Here again you twist things around to your own way of thinking, we must be all fools cos we are all debating it, so that would include you, no doubt.:p Spur, please find me a post where I have said that we don not need additions, as a matter of fact, I have statedthat we need two midfielders, a keeper and a left winger, I don't agree with a complete clearout. That would take us at least two seasons to regroup again.

As I posted the other day elsewhere, we are conceeding just as many under Juande as we were under Jol, and conceding bundles more since we strengthened our backline with two new and better players - therefore the problem STILL lies within the middle part of the pitch as has been evident for well over a year.

Well, most of you said Ramos would sort that out, he bought three new defenders in January and one has not even been utilised properly, our defence remains to be a big problem.

At the start of the season I asked a simple question, i'll ask it again now to see if people are still deluded over the quality of our midfield or not.


We need two additions in the midfield area, but not a complete change. I would keep JJ, Zokora, Taino, Malbranque, O'Hara, Hudds and maybe Lennon ( this season he has not been up to scratch). Taarbt, cannot comment due to lack of appearances.

[Spur]

OK, let me break it down.

They haven't been good enough this year.

They weren't good enough last year.

What makes you think that these players are going to be good enough next year?

The only reason - and I mean only - that ether or any of our current central midfielders should be here next year is to make up the numbers because we can't bring enough of them in during the summer.

I'm not being funny, put two decent central midfielders in our team, you can keep the wingers and full backs as they are, and we are a completely different team. It'd be hard to over-exaggerate how much better we'd be if our first choice central midfield wasn't DZ and JJ.

[peterc]

OK, let me break it down.

They haven't been good enough this year.

They weren't good enough last year.

What makes you think that these players are going to be good enough next year?

The only reason - and I mean only - that ether or any of our current central midfielders should be here next year is to make up the numbers because we can't bring enough of them in during the summer.

[QUOTE]I'm not being funny, put two decent central midfielders in our team, you can keep the wingers and full backs as they are, and we are a completely different team. It'd be hard to over-exaggerate how much better we'd be if our first choice central midfield wasn't DZ and JJ.

You must be having a laugh, you seem to be contradicting yourself here, a few posts earlier u were moaning about us conceding too many goals, suppose u are going to blame the midfield for that.

[Spur]

You must be having a laugh, you seem to be contradicting yourself here, a few posts earlier u were moaning about us conceding too many goals, suppose u are going to blame the midfield for that.
Not contradictory. You clearly missed the point of what I said previously.

Since Juande took over we are conceding as many as when Jol was in charge, since the January transfer window (when we bought two new much better quality players in btw) we are conceding more than before the window.

The only constants over the past 24 months are the midfield. You can work out what i'm trying to put across now yes?

Ed: And I said keep the full backs and wingers as they are to put the point across further that the biggest problem is in the central of the midfield. Keeping with no left back and no let winger isn't what i'd suggest doing to be honest.

[peterc]

Not contradictory. You clearly missed the point of what I said previously.

Since Juande took over we are conceding as many as when Jol was in charge, since the January transfer window (when we bought two new much better quality players in btw) we are conceding more than before the window.

The only constants over the past 24 months are the midfield. You can work out what i'm trying to put across now yes?

Ed: And I said keep the full backs and wingers as they are to put the point across further that the biggest problem is in the central of the midfield.


Midfield need strengthening by a couple of additions, anorher keeper is needed,and I think another left winger is also needed. When is Gunther going to have a run?, I wonder.

[Gino Ginelli]

My opinion is simply that Mendes, Davis and Carrick are simply much better footballers than JJ, Zokora and Huddlestone. I don't think anyone can really argue with that, and the league standings kind of reflect that. Yes, yes, I know there's far more to the success of those teams, ie defenders and strikers. But simply put, those three have proved themselves far more capable than our bunch since leaving us.

And yeah, Michael Brown IS better than Zokora!

And Simon Davies was ace for us. Should never have let him go.

[peterc]

My opinion is simply that Mendes, Davis and Carrick are simply much better footballers than JJ, Zokora and Huddlestone. I don't think anyone can really argue with that, and the league standings kind of reflect that. Yes, yes, I know there's far more to the success of those teams, ie defenders and strikers. But simply put, those three have proved themselves far more capable than our bunch since leaving us.

[QUOTE]And yeah, Michael Brown IS better than Zokora!

Thats why he has moved onto two other teams since, cos he is so good, from one weaker team to another struggling team.

And Simon Davies was ace for us. Should never have let him go

Simon Davies was not that consistent and seemed to be accident prone.

[TURKISH]

Pete pal you do struggle with the the quotes!:eek: :D

[peterc]

Pete pal you do struggle with the the quotes!:eek: :D

Well, I have improved, haven't I?, hope Choda won't tell me off again.:o ;)

[choda]

Turkish, why do you want to keep all of these pathologically shit footballers?

My God, what would they actually have to do to feel your wrath? :confused:

How many 'stays' have you had for truly useless failures? :p

My phrase for the summer is 'turn over.'

[choda]

Is there even a need for a debate?

He has no touch, he can't read the game, he can't pass, he switches off and these things are crucial for a Dm.

****ing useless for a team hoping for top four.

[TURKISH]

Turkish, why do you want to keep all of these pathologically shit footballers?

My God, what would they actually have to do to feel your wrath? :confused:

How many 'stays' have you had for truly useless failures? :p

My phrase for the summer is 'turn over.'

Im thinking just stay for one more year. We need familiarity and i don't think we need many players as ive said i want quality not quantity.

If it was up to me alot of players will go but its all about numbers and realism.

Im just really not sure what will happen in the summer i just can't seem to second guess who Ramos will want or don't want.

Im very open minded i tend to look at a player overall if someone like jamie o missed a chance i wouldn't slag him off because he works his socks off just like zokora. But if hudd starts giving the ball away ect then i would because he slobs around but people never see it. I hate nothing more than people who don't try so if you give your best i won't slag you off, ive never slagged little lee off because he shows courage and determination on the pitch.

I also feel this season has been such a joke im not even taking things that serious as i would if we was playing for something. I expect next season consitency with players fitness, preparation and performaces there are no excuses next season so i will not be holding any prisoners.

[singapore spur]

quite simply i dont think he has enough about his game to warrent a starting position in a top premier side .
great work rate from what i can tell from t.v coverage and the couple of live games i have seen this season , but nothing else , really nothing else to commend him .
would have hoped he would turn into the makelele ( spe) type of player but it aint happened yet and cant see it in the future .
so go

[wayne wonder]

We have one of the worst midfields in the entire leaue and thats no joke it pains me to see thats the best we can put out week in week out. Why the hell we sold carrick and not properly replaced him with someone who could actually pass is beyond me. carrick made JJ look decent(ish) carrick couldn't tackle for shit and was slower than a snail but still RAN our midfield and we got nearly snatched that 4th spot its no coincidence tha since he's gone we've become weaker .

JJ should be kept as a squad player but will more than likely be a starter next season, Keep lennon and steed as squad players and get rid of hudd and teemu who will probably go in the the summer and zoko will probably stay too

[highlander]

ok, for me zokora is a stayer. he's athletic, a hard worker and has a lot of pace. he gives great cover at the back as well as in midfield and is an excellent squad player

[jrio]

Ben on FTL saying he spoke to Zokora a few days ago and Zok's confident he's going to be here next season along with 4 or 5 new players. :eek:

[peterc]

Ben on FTL saying he spoke to Zokora a few days ago and Zok's confident he's going to be here next season along with 4 or 5 new players. :eek:


I don't think that we are going to have a massive clearout, maximum an additional four players.

[berbzy 'G']

I don't think that we are going to have a massive clearout, maximum an additional four players.

hopefully it will be Robinson, Zokora, Lee, and Chimbonda...

[TURKISH]

Ben on FTL saying he spoke to Zokora a few days ago and Zok's confident he's going to be here next season along with 4 or 5 new players. :eek:

It helps when your sleeping with the director of football!:eek:

Ken on FTLL Says berba is going. So beware ken said it first!:cool: