Match Thread: Tottenham Hotspur vs Birmingham City

[Neil_Vaughan]

Talk about the game in here before, during and after...

[\jackdaw]

Should be a nice comfortable win .. going for 3-0 because we have kept a clean sheet or two recently.

[berbzy 'G']

They'll be throwing everything at us under there new manager... But we should win about 3 0 or 3 1... It'll get us ****'all up the table even if we do win...

[Keanoldinho]

A must win game and hopefully we don't come out and play like we did against Aalborg in the first half. It will be interesting to see who Ramos plays instead of JJ I'm hoping for Boateng. I'm thinking we may aswell start this game off in a 352 because that's what we usually end up playing most the game anyway. I'll go with 3-0 Berby, Keano, Boateng

[Spur]

If Boateng starts we may as well go 4-4-2, because we'll have a decent midfielder there. Of course that's reliant on him having a good game!

It has to be a win, it's Birmingham. Although they will look to come at us, but despite that, we have to win. It's games like these we have to win or we are nowhere near top 5 or 6.

[denis-cro]

..........................Robinson................ ......
....Chimbonda - Dawson - Zokora - Bale......
.......................Huddlestone................ ....
........Lennon - Boateng - Malbranque.........
.................Keane - Berbatov...................

Czerny - Stalteri - Tainio - Taarabt - Bent

I´ d start with 4-4-2 but with Chimbo as a RB, and Zokora as CB.

[berbzy 'G']

..........................Robinson................ ......
....Chimbonda - Dawson - Zokora - Bale......
.......................Huddlestone................ ....
........Lennon - Boateng - Malbranque.........
.................Keane - Berbatov...................

Czerny - Stalteri - Tainio - Taarabt - Bent

I´ d start with 4-4-2 but with Chimbo as a RB, and Zokora as CB.

Yup... Zokora to definately play at CB..

[hodgy]

what is the point in having a reserve team if you are not going to play them when a first team player gets injured. bring in a centre half from the ressies and play them in there natural position. it's all about positioning and if you play there regular you are more likely to know where to position yourself on the park. play zokora and hudd in the middle of midfield. chimbo at right back. bale at left back. dawson and a centre half from the reserves in the middle of defence.

[shakey18]

what is the point in having a reserve team if you are not going to play them when a first team player gets injured. bring in a centre half from the ressies and play them in there natural position. it's all about positioning and if you play there regular you are more likely to know where to position yourself on the park. play zokora and hudd in the middle of midfield. chimbo at right back. bale at left back. dawson and a centre half from the reserves in the middle of defence.

Well i reckon if Dervitte had made his comback a few weeks earlier, he would have been drafted in.Good point though mate, i'd like to see some of the ressies put into the 1st team squad from time to time, especially for home games.What greater motivation for the reserves than a real chance of a first team berth?.

[irishspur]

bent looks in good form and id like to see him with up front with berbs and keano on the left with steed and boateng in the middle. Zokora has to be at CB cuz hes quick and strong and always gives 100%.

[Keanoldinho]

Well Reading drew today and fulham don't have a hope in hell of beating manure so if we win which we better then we'll move up to 12 place. Lets hope we don't feck it up like we did last week.

[deadleyledley]

a 3-0 performance wil fit nicely.
keep the same team as we started in the second half during aalborg game. we looked like a different team with hudd in there.
he provided some good passes and that is what we lacked.
we had jenas ans zok passing it sideways throughout the first half.

[choda]

I'm still wary of Tom's fitness. He still looked like an oil tanker on Thursday despite showing his undoubted talent again. Get fit Tom then you can be an all round diamond.

But for this game I'd go with Zok at cb, Tainio in the holding role and Boeteng as the attacking or up and down mid.

I'd love to see Taara come off the bench for Mal and see what he can do.

I'd go with the same front two and Bent ready to come on and make an impact.

2-0 to Spurs. Keane and Lennon.

[Keanoldinho]

I'm still wary of Tom's fitness. He still looked like an oil tanker on Thursday despite showing his undoubted talent again. Get fit Tom then you can be an all round diamond.

But for this game I'd go with Zok at cb, Tainio in the holding role and Boeteng as the attacking or up and down mid.
I'd love to see Taara come off the bench for Mal and see what he can do.

I'd go with the same front two and Bent ready to come on and make an impact.

2-0 to Spurs. Keane and Lennon.


I'd like to see them 2 in CM I think that could be a very good partnership. Tainio always gives 100% and what he lacks in skill he makes up for in heart and commitment. Boateng looks like he could be a big player for us and his alround game doesn't seem to be missing much if anything, he can tackle, shoot, pass and dribble very well. A midfield of Taara Boateng Tainio Lennon would be very interesting to see with Chimbo and Bale backing the wingers up. No matter what though our defence is still a worry does anyone know if Kaboul will be back? I'd rather we had Gardner than him at least Gardner has more experience.

[berbzy 'G']

Robinson

Chimbonda Dawson Zokora Bale

Lennon Tainio Boateng Malbranque

Bent Keane


Subs: Cerny Kaboul Huddlestone Berbatov Defoe

:)

I also would wonder if Zokora personnly likes staying in Defence...

[TURKISH]

I hope to god tom doesn't play but i would go with this team:

robbo
stalteri
bale
chimbo
daws
steed
zokora
boateng
lennon
berba
keano(c)
subs:
cerny
kaboul
taarby
tainio
bent

[SCIFIN17YID]

Does anyone know what channel this is showing on i.e Setanta sports or Sky Sports blah blah blah ? if its none of those is it a stream job :'( ??

[Sparkystav]

It's on Sky sports one mate after the england vs world 11 game.

Stav

[SCIFIN17YID]

It's on Sky sports one mate after the england vs world 11 game.

Stav

Thanks buddy.

[denis-cro]

kaboul back in starting line-up...we start we 3 upfront...Keane - Berbatov - Bent , it means 4-3-3 :eek:

[shakey18]

4-3-3 Bent, Berbs, and Keane up front.

[McSpurs]

Hope to see us go for the jugular straight away with 3 up front. Why do we seem to wait til we go behind before we start to believe? Come on boys.:mad:

[wayne wonder]

Anyone got a stream for the game im not at home at the min so will miss the 1st half on sky

[shakey18]

C'mon Keano-should have finished that

[shakey18]

****s sake

[wayne wonder]

****ing Kaboul is a total tosser get the ****er off the pitch im sick of him costing us goals:mad:

[denis-cro]

Once again, we´re missing chances. we´re not clinical, and that is our MAIN PROBLEM !!!!!!!

[wayne wonder]

Once again, we´re missing chances. we´re not clinical, and that is our MAIN PROBLEM !!!!!!!

Our main problem is we're just SHIT!

[denis-cro]

Kaboul is a complete waste of money...I don´t want him to wear Spurs shirt ever again..He must be retarded, cause he´s making same mistakes over and over again...IDIOT !!!
Keane and Bent should have scored from their 100% chances.... **** !!!!!!!!
Watching Spurs is damaging my health FFS !!!

[wayne wonder]

Kaboul is a complete waste of money...I don´t want him to wear Spurs shirt ever again..He must be retarded, cause he´s making same mistakes over and over again...IDIOT !!!
Keane and Bent should have scored from their 100% chances.... **** !!!!!!!!
Watching Spurs is damaging my health FFS !!!

Tell me about it ALL my fiends are blues fans i can go to work 2moro :(

[shakey18]

Frustrating as **** watching this lot.

[bocayid]

4 3 3 wtf was ramos doing with that anyway.....we don't have the stability at the back or the balance in midfield to do that..against anyone at the moment..thank **** we are not playing a better team than this lot..although I wouldn't expect him to do that against ' better' opposition...

with ledders unlikely to return we need a centre half..not a pretty ball playing libero but a ****ing ball winning clear your lines organised defender....

im sure our lot think shape is only a yoghurt......

[shakey18]

Geddin Robbie!!!!!!!!!!!!

[shakey18]

****in YES Keano!!!!!!!

[shakey18]

****in Hell-bollocks

[bocayid]

until be sort out the back it doesnt matter how much talent we have on the park....we can't ****ing defend....53 goals in 15 games played ffs...

[bocayid]

bollocks..ffs ref......the ref asked his lino..and the lino had a piss poor angle...ffs,,,******s

[shakey18]

Dowd is a ****-****in shocking decision.

[Sparkystav]

WTF???

That referee's a f**king joke!

[bocayid]

yeah..and did u see obi ****ing mikkels tackle yesterday..was from behind almost cut the geezer in half and could have broke his leg...and he stays on...refs..tough job yes but so inconsistent unless your a favourite club of theirs..i tohught pro ref were sposed to be better..nyone noticed ...plus the linesman r usually ****ing awful....

[shakey18]

Now Bales gone off injured FFS!!!

[Sparkystav]

That useless C*** Uriah Rennie as 4th offical!

The same tosser that gave Arteta that free kick against everton last year when the linesman had flagged for a spurs foul.

[wayne wonder]

I cant believe how bad we are im actually shocked seriously lads!!

[wayne wonder]

Ahhh **** this shit i cant be arsed with it anymore

[shakey18]

****in shocking.This lot are ****in me up, they really are.

[wayne wonder]

****ing shit ger rid of them all bunch of over paid ****s!!

[Sparkystav]

For ****'s sake lads,

You could fault their last goal but come on!? losing at home to Birmingham? Useless tossers should have sealed it when it went to two-one.

And that Phil Dowd's a ****. and as if he blew up in an attacking oppurtunity? tosser, hope his christmas presents get nicked.

[bocayid]

i think ramos will find out that certain big time charlies at the lane lack the brass balls to battle for OUR club..yes keane got sent off,but we lack ****ing fight....it aint a new manager its bottle we need...and yes i remeber 77 when we went down..u are never too good to go down..u need fight as well as finess...attitude sucks....

[MACCSPURS]

That game is a fine example of how ****ed we are.

Does anyone think Birmingham were any good? Just look at the procession stats. They got a pen against the run of play, their second was because of our shaky defence and the last was because Berbs lost the ball and lets be honest they scored with a fluke goal (again, last minute so too late to do anything about it)

I said this months ago. This season is over. Just wait until Ramos can buy and sort out the current mess.

[shakey18]

i think ramos will find out that certain big time charlies at the lane lack the brass balls to battle for OUR club..yes keane got sent off,but we lack ****ing fight....it aint a new manager its bottle we need...and yes i remeber 77 when we went down..u are never too good to go down..u need fight as well as finess...attitude sucks....

Agreed.No ****in fight.Goals 2 and 3 were shocking.The hit for the winner was a good one but Berbs should have just got rid of the ****er.

[Apples]

BERBATOV **** OFF u useless prick!

[shakey18]

January we need to buy.Ramos said only desparate teams buy in January-Well we are desparate.The defence is shithouse.

[MACCSPURS]

The saving grace for Ramos is this is not his team.

Personally, in January I would buy a couple of defenders who will retire at the end of the season. A bit like when we got Naybet.

[Keanoldinho]

That was awful but that's what happens when you don't put your chances away. I knew when I seen a midfield of Lennon Zokora Malbranque we were going to be fecked in the middle of the park Zokora Hudd Boateng woulda worked better with that system.

The sending off should've been a yellow but at the same time Keane never should've lounged in like that out of frustation because his pass didn't get through. To much ball watching going on as well and for the 2nd week running we've ****ed up the chance to move up to 12th place.

Europe through the league is now well out of our grasp I think losing to Birmingham at home is just piss poor and a terrbile performance we got what we deserved though from the effort shown and constant ball watching and missed chances. The game could've been so different if we didn't have Kaboul at the back who's the French Titus Bramble mark II. We need a experienced CB so bad it's killing me someone to take charge on the field and lead these blind tossers.

[Ginola's Son]

Ok...so now where are the Jol haters who thought his removal would spell an amazing recovery.

We've looked NO better under Ramos and the only team we have been capable of beating are ****ing Wigan, who along with Derby - our other prem win - are the only teams more pathetic than us. We have 12 ****ing points in December, we can't defend for shit even though our defenders aren't shit. We are also the unluckiest ****ing team in the world. 0-1 to a nothing penalty, **** sending off, **** injury to Bale, **** 90 millionth minute winner which was as predictable as death and taxes is in life.

We're a joke. I'm staring relegation right in the ****ing face. The rest of you lot better face it too. You can wave it away and say 'we'll be alright' but we CANNOT win our ****ing home games, we CANNOT win our away games. All we can do is grab scarcely deserved draws. It's the worst I've seen us since the Gross era, and maybe even worse than that. I'm nearly in tears right now at the injustice of it all.

[Spur]

Ok...so now where are the Jol haters who thought his removal would spell an amazing recovery.

We've looked NO better under Ramos and the only team we have been capable of beating are ****ing Wigan, who along with Derby - our other prem win - are the only teams more pathetic than us. We have 12 ****ing points in December, we can't defend for shit even though our defenders aren't shit. We are also the unluckiest ****ing team in the world. 0-1 to a nothing penalty, **** sending off, **** injury to Bale, **** 90 millionth minute winner which was as predictable as death and taxes is in life.

Yea, we're only creating a dozen great chances a game. We didn't take them today, and going down to ten meant a massive space in the middle. This is how Birmingham won.

Oh and some shoddy defending yet again.

He's got alot to sort out tonight.

[nuttyhotspurs]

Ok...so now where are the Jol haters who thought his removal would spell an amazing recovery.

We've looked NO better under Ramos and the only team we have been capable of beating are ****ing Wigan, who along with Derby - our other prem win - are the only teams more pathetic than us. We have 12 ****ing points in December, we can't defend for shit even though our defenders aren't shit. We are also the unluckiest ****ing team in the world. 0-1 to a nothing penalty, **** sending off, **** injury to Bale, **** 90 millionth minute winner which was as predictable as death and taxes is in life.

We're a joke. I'm staring relegation right in the ****ing face. The rest of you lot better face it too. You can wave it away and say 'we'll be alright' but we CANNOT win our ****ing home games, we CANNOT win our away games. All we can do is grab scarcely deserved draws. It's the worst I've seen us since the Gross era, and maybe even worse than that. I'm nearly in tears right now at the injustice of it all.

spot on. absolutely agree with you about us being the unluckiest team in the world. no matter how well we play this season, things go against us. the only luck we had this season is kabouls winner in the last min against villa but did villa deserve to be 4-1 ahead at any point in that game? our defence jus lets us down in some way in every game

kaboul is not fit to play in any team in the premiership, let alone us. it was an unbelievably bad error of judgement paying £7m+ for him. jesus ****in christ what a waste of money. gary doherty was better defensively than that useless ****.

lads where i work were jokin all this week asking me who we've got in the relegation battle this week and i was laughin them off. way to make myself look like an idiot huh. we are in deep shit and well and truly in a relegation battle from today onwards

[Spur]

Mitko had a shocker.

[Ginola's Son]

Yea, we're only creating a dozen great chances a game. We didn't take them today, and going down to ten meant a massive space in the middle. This is how Birmingham won.

What good is a chance if you can't ****ing well score it? Birmingham are utter ****ing toilet yet they'll go their coach ride home thinking they're the greatest team on earth. They are shit! But guess what, because of our attitude, we are even shitter. I am HATING the team! I dread watching games, I swear I'm getting a heart murmour every ****ing game cos I know we'll concede at the end! Always us, always ****ing us! I'm up to here with it!

[shakey18]

Mitko had a shocker.

Agreed.I think he needs to be dropped at the moment.I pray we contest Keane's card, because we are a much poorer team without him.

[jrio]

Ok...so now where are the Jol haters who thought his removal would spell an amazing recovery.

We've looked NO better under Ramos and the only team we have been capable of beating are ****ing Wigan, who along with Derby - our other prem win - are the only teams more pathetic than us. We have 12 ****ing points in December, we can't defend for shit even though our defenders aren't shit. We are also the unluckiest ****ing team in the world. 0-1 to a nothing penalty, **** sending off, **** injury to Bale, **** 90 millionth minute winner which was as predictable as death and taxes is in life.

We're a joke. I'm staring relegation right in the ****ing face. The rest of you lot better face it too. You can wave it away and say 'we'll be alright' but we CANNOT win our ****ing home games, we CANNOT win our away games. All we can do is grab scarcely deserved draws. It's the worst I've seen us since the Gross era, and maybe even worse than that. I'm nearly in tears right now at the injustice of it all.
Getting a bit carried away there. "Our defenders aren't shit"? Clearly they are and you've seen it. Penalty was a very poor challenge by Kaboul, though it looked weak. Dowd did an action replay on Keane from last season, when Poll sent him off for a hand-ball.

Ramos no better than Jol? Getting Defoe and the rest to not eat jelly babies and wine gums after training is a start. His reaction to losing is also more dynamic and gets quick results. Twice in row at home it's resulted in 2 goals in 10 minutes after ht. I think you're suffering from Wenger-envy. It's understandable but you need to keep your nerve.

[Spur]

What good is a chance if you can't ****ing well score it? Birmingham are utter ****ing toilet yet they'll go their coach ride home thinking they're the greatest team on earth. They are shit! But guess what, because of our attitude, we are even shitter. I am HATING the team! I dread watching games, I swear I'm getting a heart murmour every ****ing game cos I know we'll concede at the end! Always us, always ****ing us! I'm up to here with it!

The point is we are playing better.

[Keanoldinho]

Getting a bit carried away there. "Our defenders aren't shit"? Clearly they are and you've seen it. Penalty was a very poor challenge by Kaboul, though it looked weak. Dowd did an action replay on Keane from last season, when Poll sent him off for a hand-ball.

Ramos no better than Jol? Getting Defoe and the rest to not eat jelly babies and wine gums after training is a start. His reaction to losing is also more dynamic and gets quick results. Twice in row at home it's resulted in 2 goals in 10 minutes after ht. I think you're suffering from Wenger-envy. It's understandable but you need to keep your nerve.


lol the table looks fecking awful them bastards are running away with it and we're in a relegation battle. joke of the decade us replacing them in the top 4 pre-season hype ffs we're officially in the shit big time and they beating everyone it's depressing to look at.

[Ginola's Son]

Getting a bit carried away there. "Our defenders aren't shit"? Clearly they are and you've seen it. Penalty was a very poor challenge by Kaboul, though it looked weak. Dowd did an action replay on Keane from last season, when Poll sent him off for a hand-ball.

Ramos no better than Jol? Getting Defoe and the rest to not eat jelly babies and wine gums after training is a start. His reaction to losing is also more dynamic and gets quick results. Twice in row at home it's resulted in 2 goals in 10 minutes after ht. I think you're suffering from Wenger-envy. It's understandable but you need to keep your nerve.

Wenger envy?? Sorry...would that be a coach who seldom tastes defeat, has the knack of picking the best players in Europe to play for him, and is a born winner? Me? Envious of him? YOU'RE DAMN RIGHT I AM!! Cos apart from Ferguson and Jose, no-one measures up!!

Our defenders aren't shit, Dawson was fantastic in each of the last two seasons, LYP was handy and Chimbonda was too, now cos of Kaboul, the confidence has been drained. The man is like a jonah. Misery follows him! I even want Gardner in ahead of him!

Ramos' reaction to losing is irrelavent, we have still lost, we still have no points! No ****ing points! MY god, can't you see the problem here! This is really really DANGEROUS!!

[Ginola's Son]

The point is we are playing better.

How was today any better. WE HAVE LOST TO SHIT!!!

[Spur]

How was today any better. WE HAVE LOST TO SHIT!!!

We are performing better. Half way through the first half I texted my mate saying how we were playing well. We played some good football today.

[jrio]

Our defenders aren't shit, Dawson was fantastic in each of the last two seasons, LYP was handy and Chimbonda was too, now cos of Kaboul, the confidence has been drained. The man is like a jonah. Misery follows him! I even want Gardner in ahead of him!

Ramos' reaction to losing is irrelavent, we have still lost, we still have no points! No ****ing points! MY god, can't you see the problem here! This is really really DANGEROUS!!

The past isn't the present. Clearly Dawson, having been out for a prolonged period, has lost form and confidence. A winning team breeds confidence and we don't have that. But defence largely comes from the midfield, in closing down and denying space, not just from the back four. This is why I always cite Liverpool as a prime example of a very good defensive side, since they usually don't allow you the opportunities to attack them.

I agree about Gardner, a sentence I can't believe I would ever type. The problem is that Ramos has no other realistic options with 3 CDs out. Chimbo can only fill in there briefly, whilst Zokora lacks the discipline and strength to fulfill a strong defensive role.

[olly27]

Any chance of Keane appealling his red card???..

Said it before and will say it again...we did not spend the money properly over the summer, thats a fact. It was clear as day what we needed to do and didn't do it. Look at the amount of goals we scored last season and the amount we conceded...its not rocket science.

[olly27]

Will Keane miss the Man City game?

[SurreySpur]

We played some decent football at times but we never really look completely at ease when in posession. We always look slightly disjointed, its frustrating as we should be taking teams like Brum apart.

For me Berbatov has to be dropped, he shows flashes of his skill but he spends most of the games on the fringe at the moment and its almost like playing with ten men. When a player like JJ plays badly at least he covers a lot of ground and shows willing, Berba on the other hand completely disappears from games, he just looks like he wants to be somewhere else. Dont get me wrong, im not pinning all the blame on Berbatov but he's not really contributing anything positive to the team at present.

[Keanoldinho]

We are performing better. Half way through the first half I texted my mate saying how we were playing well. We played some good football today.


We did but not good enough we had chances to score before there peno and we fluffed them mainly Keanos sky rocket and after we went up 2-1 we had chances to put the game to bed but we didn't. Not good enough there was to much ball watching and not enough running off the ball up front.

There were to many times in the game were we had 2 or 3 players standing in or around there 18 just watching Lennon or Malbranque or Bale or whoever running with the ball looking for a pass and getting no support.

Ramos is definately a very good manager and I've no doubt in my mind he'll save us from the drop but he's got a long way to go with this lot of losers he's working with. I can see City doing us at the Lane to especially if Elano is back.

[olly27]

Well am coming from Belfast to watch the City game...first time I will have been at the lane since I was a young boy...was really looking forward to it and now today this has ruined it for me. Losing like we did, Kenae being sent off (who I couldn't wait to see play), bale going of injured.....just utterly depressed...my timing is shit too...

[jrio]

We are performing better. Half way through the first half I texted my mate saying how we were playing well. We played some good football today.
It looked like day-light robbery. Spurs were all over Brum like a rash. It's undeniable that sending Keane off changed the game. It shouldn't have resulted in us losing but we've lacked backbone for a long time, going back to the 5-3 reversal under Glenn against ManU.

[olly27]

It looked like day-light robbery. Spurs were all over Brum like a rash. It's undeniable that sending Keane off changed the game. It shouldn't have resulted in us losing but we've lacked backbone for a long time, going back to the 5-3 reversal under Glenn against ManU.

Jrio will Keane miss 1 or 3 prem games? Could he appeal the red card?

[SurreySpur]

Jrio will Keane miss 1 or 3 prem games? Could he appeal the red card?

We'll certainly appeal the decision but whether it gets overturned or not is up for debate. The FA's ruling on appeals this season have been very strange so it could go either way.

[olly27]

We'll certainly appeal the decision but whether it gets overturned or not is up for debate. The FA's ruling on appeals this season have been very strange so it could go either way.

Cheers Surrey..I just really cant believe what is happening to us at the moment...its like we'r cursed, no matter what we do.

[jrio]

Ramos is definately a very good manager and I've no doubt in my mind he'll save us from the drop but he's got a long way to go with this lot of losers he's working with. I can see City doing us at the Lane to especially if Elano is back.
He's out for 3-4 weeks and City have only won one game away from home, the first against Wham. Funny how talk has swiftly switched from finishing in the top 5 to avoiding relegation. It's over-reaction but we can't afford to be complacent. This is supposedly an improved side to that from last season, yet it has fallen far short. I've seen it many times at Spurs, a side that looked to be able to win the league(particularly 84-85), yet completely fell away and confidence drained so much that you couldn't see Spurs winning another game.

[Spur]

We'll certainly appeal the decision but whether it gets overturned or not is up for debate. The FA's ruling on appeals this season have been very strange so it could go either way.

It won't get overturned, very few do. The FA will side with what the ref saw.

[Keanoldinho]

Bale is worrying me he seems to pick up injuries to easy and the commentator said something about him thinking he hurt his ligaments today that can't be good. Without him on the left we look unbalanced and pretty on dimensional. ****in hell Tottenham are a depressing team to support.

[jrio]

Jrio will Keane miss 1 or 3 prem games? Could he appeal the red card?
It's 3, but I'd be confident of it being over-turned, simply because it was just a rugged challenge. What about the Reading guy who scythed into a City player last week? Paraphrasing Wenger, that should have been 2 red cards, yet only got a booking. :eek:

[Keanoldinho]

It won't get overturned, very few do. The FA will side with what the ref saw.


I don't see how it can't get over turned it was clearly not a red

[olly27]

It's 3, but I'd be confident of it being over-turned, simply because it was just a rugged challenge. What about the Reading guy who scythed into a City player last week? Paraphrasing Wenger, that should have been 2 red cards, yet only got a booking. :eek:

Cheers Jrio, am praying its overturned..incidentally is Keane top scorer in the league now with 8 goals?, actually he might be second

[Keanoldinho]

He's out for 3-4 weeks and City have only won one game away from home, the first against Wham. Funny how talk has swiftly switched from finishing in the top 5 to avoiding relegation. It's over-reaction but we can't afford to be complacent. This is supposedly an improved side to that from last season, yet it has fallen far short. I've seen it many times at Spurs, a side that looked to be able to win the league(particularly 84-85), yet completely fell away and confidence drained so much that you couldn't see Spurs winning another game.


The table doesn't lie and right now we're about a million miles away from 5th place and 1 point clear of the drop zone slap bang in the middle of a relegation dog fight. Happy Days there's never a dull moment at Tottenham:( we need a smiley face that's crying

[Keanoldinho]

Cheers Jrio, am praying its overturned..incidentally is Keane top scorer in the league now with 8 goals?, actually he might be second


I think he's tied with Benjani and Adebayor for top scorer but Adebayor will probably take the lead when the goons play the barcodes on Wednesday. Newcastle are leaking goals almost as bad as us right now and I can't see them handling Adebayor very well.

[jrio]

The table doesn't lie and right now we're about a million miles away from 5th place and 1 point clear of the drop zone slap bang in the middle of a relegation dog fight. Happy Days there's never a dull moment at Tottenham:( we need a smiley face that's crying

Sure, but a lot of fans were banking on a similar turn-around to that of last season. Clearly that won't be happening soon. Just conceding so many goals seems to be a major drag on expectations. The lack of any alternative to Kaboul seems to majorly handicap Ramos in making changes. I thought Rocha had looked solid, not prone to Bramble-type errors, and wouldn't have had the confidence-draining effect that Kaboul seems to have had on Dawson. It's been very alarming that he wasn't diagnosed earlier by our medical staff with his injury, and it took a month into the season before he had to submit to an operation.

[berbzy 'G']

A ****ing shamble... How emabarissing...

Ramos recons only desperate teams buy in January... We better ****ing start saving then... We need a ****ing squad clearout... just keep Keane, King, and Bale?

[olly27]

Anyone like to hazard a guess at where we will finish this season? I am going for tenth..optimistic I know.

[jrio]

I think he's tied with Benjani and Adebayor for top scorer but Adebayor will probably take the lead when the goons play the barcodes on Wednesday. Newcastle are leaking goals almost as bad as us right now and I can't see them handling Adebayor very well.
Amazingly, he is. Also amazingly, the victim of 2 ridiculous red cards at home in 2 successive seasons.

[Keanoldinho]

Sure, but a lot of fans were banking on a similar turn-around to that of last season. Clearly that won't be happening soon. Just conceding so many goals seems to be a major drag on expectations. The lack of any alternative to Kaboul seems to majorly handicap Ramos in making changes. I thought Rocha had looked solid, not prone to Bramble-type errors, and wouldn't have had the confidence-draining effect that Kaboul seems to have had on Dawson. It's been very alarming that he wasn't diagnosed earlier by our medical staff with his injury, and it took a month into the season before he had to submit to an operation.


Ramos options are extremely limited with all the injuries in defence. This season has just been such a big let down more so than any I remember. The expectations were so high and rightly so after two 5th place finishes and 40+ million spent. I wonder what would've happened if Jol had been allowed to buy some of the targets he'd requested(ie Elano and Petrov). I guess we'll never know now. I'm just depressed this season is a write off already and we've still got 6 months of football left then the Euros with zero Spurs players as well.

[jrio]

Ramos options are extremely limited with all the injuries in defence. This season has just been such a big let down more so than any I remember. The expectations were so high and rightly so after two 5th place finishes and 40+ million spent. I wonder what would've happened if Jol had been allowed to buy some of the targets he'd requested(ie Elano and Petrov). I guess we'll never know now. I'm just depressed this season is a write off already and we've still got 6 months of football left then the Euros with zero Spurs players as well.

I wouldn't place much store by that. I'd seen no indication that Elano was on Jol's radar, and like Petrov, he's on 60k a week at City, much more than Spurs would offer.

You obviously don't remember 82-83. Having won the FA Cup, lost the LC in et to Liverpool, finished 4th and only got knocked out in the CWC semis by the dirtiest side I've ever seen(Barca managed by Menotti!) we bought Gary Stevens and Danny Thomas to "strengthen" our defence. Disaster! 3-1 away defeat to Ipswich in our first game and from then on Spurs looked all at sea. I think we finished about 10th and Gary Stevens was swiftly removed from cd to rb and eventually midfield, where he made the England team for the 86 WC squad!

[Keanoldinho]

I wouldn't place much store by that. I'd seen no indication that Elano was on Jol's radar, and like Petrov, he's on 60k a week at City, much more than Spurs would offer.

You obviously don't remember 82-83. Having won the FA Cup, lost the LC in et to Liverpool, finished 4th and only got knocked out in the CWC semis by the dirtiest side I've ever seen(Barca managed by Menotti!) we bought Gary Stevens and Danny Thomas to "strengthen" our defence. Disaster! 3-1 away defeat to Ipswich in our first game and from then on Spurs looked all at sea. I think we finished about 10th and Gary Stevens was swiftly removed from cd to rb and eventually midfield, where he made the England team for the 86 WC squad!


lol well I turned 1 in July '82 so me memory is a wee bit foggy back then:D

just curious how old r you jrio?

[choda]

I'm totally at a loss as to how we lost that game. The last two games have been so unlucky. Yet again we were clearly the better team and the ref had a mare.

Mind you we don't help ourselves, and it will take a while for Ramos to sort out the mess he was left.

I feel sorry for Kaboul, because he is talented, but clearly too young and not used to the prem. It is draining all confidence, it is hurting him and the team. If there was ANY viable alternative then he wouldn't play.

And I agree with SurreySpur. I think Berba should be dropped. He's simply not performing, for whatever reason. He's had ample time to play well. I'd like to see Bent and Keane given a run together.

As for the red card, well how shockingly bad was that? The ref was two yards away from it with a perfect view. And it seemed that Retard Rennie, made the decision even though he was behind the tackle, 30 yards away and NOT the referee.

Just a normal tackle. Yellow would have been harsh. Was it even a free kick? Infuriating. There's no way anybody who has played the game could interpret the rule so badly. It cost us three points because we dominated for a good period even with ten and without our most influential attacker. And just to compound things our other main threat, and the most gifted young fullback you could ever see, limped off soon after.

We had no luck what so ever. I hope we get it back in the cups. I just hope Ramos can get it more solid and organised in time for the bigger matches to come. The cups have no become massive, because we probably have little hope of Uefa qualification via the league.

[choda]

lol well I turned 1 in July '82 so me memory is a wee bit foggy back then:D

just curious how old r you jrio?

Jrio helped invent fire. :p :D

[olly27]

Choda would you think the red card will be overturned?

[choda]

Choda would you think the red card will be overturned?

I doubt it, they protect referees usually. However, it was so bad that it could be rescinded. Especially since the brum player said sorry to Robbie afterwards. He may even, off his own bat, try to help Robbie out and get it chalked off.

I can't believe the last two league matches. I hardly ever give out about luck, but we were robbed in both games.

[denis-cro]

Any news on Bale´s injury ??? I hope it´ s nothing serious...he´ s our best player at the moment...and his long term absence would be a massive blow... :(
I´m very sorry to see him get injured very often ... pity..

[peterc]

Mr Ramos welcome to the premiership, Defence was shaky at times, midfield, what midfield?, Steeeeeeeeed was the only decent midfielder, take of Bent and put on Defoe, what did Defoe do in the second half, zero. So for those of you who have seen some changes as to the fitness and way we look more organised, wonder what happened today?, please don't just blame the ref, he was a knob, but we should have hammered B'ham today, we can't continue blaming Jol for his tactics now, can we?

[choda]

Mr Ramos welcome to the premiership, Defence was shaky at times, midfield, what midfield?, Steeeeeeeeed was the only decent midfielder, take of Bent and put on Defoe, what did Defoe do in the second half, zero. So for those of you who have seen some changes as to the fitness and way we look more organised, wonder what happened today?, please don't just blame the ref, he was a knob, but we should have hammered B'ham today, we can't continue blaming Jol for his tactics now, can we?

Of course we can. It is Jol that has us in this royal mess. Juande has come in and made a noticable difference. But it will take him a while to sort it out and make it his team. He did well again today. He actually changed the game to a winning scoreline and we'd have won the game if Keane hadn't been sent off.

[TURKISH]

Jrio helped invent fire. :p :D

A one liner that jrio himself would of been proud off!

[peterc]

Of course we can. It is Jol that has us in this royal mess. Juande has come in and made a noticable difference. But it will take him a while to sort it out and make it his team. He did well agains today. He actually changed the game to a winning scoreline and we'd have won the game if Keane hadn't been sent off.

Choda, you are having a laugh, if not, I just feel sorry for you.

[TURKISH]

Choda, you are having a laugh, if not, I just feel sorry for you.

In the summer jol had time to assess the situation on why we concede so many goals. We needed a qulaity centre back as ledley king was injured, jol had 4 targets he wanted and got them.

Kaboul
boateng
bent
bale

Now what the **** is ramos ment to do? He is so desperate that he has to play zokora at centre back because kaboul hasn't had time to settle in as games are coming thick and fast.

Things will be better when rocha or big bubba comes back. And if fans can't see we are improving under ramos then i feel sorry for you and you should just support the scum.

[Spur]

Choda, you are having a laugh, if not, I just feel sorry for you.

He is right.

Are you telling me that we've not improved since Jol left?

Erm, one defeat in 5 games - Jol would've dreamt for it at the end of his tenure.

I have no doubt today that had Keane stayed on the pitch we would have won. We also had the completely ineffective Defoe who had an absolute mare.

[Ioang]

Jol!? or Comoli?.

[TURKISH]

He is right.

Are you telling me that we've not improved since Jol left?

Erm, one defeat in 5 games - Jol would've dreamt for it at the end of his tenure.

I have no doubt today that had Keane stayed on the pitch we would have won. We also had the completely ineffective Defoe who had an absolute mare.

Yep just one of them games, im not bothered as ramos needs time just like jol did when he first took over!

[peterc]

In the summer jol had time to assess the situation on why we concede so many goals. We needed a qulaity centre back as ledley king was injured, jol had 4 targets he wanted and got them.

Kaboul
boateng
bent
bale

Jol wanted Kaboul yes, Boetang yes, Bale yes Bent (still don't agree Jol wanted him) I would think it was more of a Comolli recommendation.

Now what the **** is ramos ment to do? He is so desperate that he has to play zokora at centre back because kaboul hasn't had time to settle in as games are coming thick and fast.

Practically the same players managed to draw with Liverpool at Anfield, unlucky to lose to Man U at Old Trafford, but could not beat B'Ham at home, so mate, too hard to swallow, Mr Ramos, welcome to the Premiership.

Things will be better when rocha or big bubba comes back. And if fans can't see we are improving under ramos then i feel sorry for you and you should just support the scum.

Who are you to tell me to go and support the scum?, I have my opinion and I am entitled to express my opinions as much as you are, so grow up and try and show some respect to fellow yids who might have a different opinion to yours.

[Ginola's Son]

Woe!!! It's All Bad!!

[TURKISH]

Who are you to tell me to go and support the scum?, I have my opinion and I am entitiled to express my opinions as much as you are, so grow up and try and show some respect to fellow yids who might have a different opinion to yours.

When did i say "peter go and support the sum" so don't jump out your pram. When jol was having a bad time with results you got behind him but when ramos has his first loss you seem to contridict yourself.

And as for me showing respect for fellow yids what about you calling fans on here fickle when not supporting jol? Where you respectful then?

[Spur]

When did i say "peter go and support the sum" so don't jump out your pram. When jol was having a bad time with results you got behind him but when ramos has his first loss you seem to contridict yourself.

That's because Peter is fickle, fickle, fickle.

:D

[choda]

Jol would have eventually delivered top four or a the very least the play-offs.

[peterc]

When did i say "peter go and support the sum" so don't jump out your pram. When jol was having a bad time with results you got behind him but when ramos has his first loss you seem to contridict yourself.

I agree that you did not mention my name but it is quite obvious that I happen to disagree that Ramos has made so much difference to the way we play, as I mentioned before, we still managed to get a draw at Anfield with
the same players under Jol. I am not running down Ramos in any way, please show me where I have stated any such comments, all I said is Mr Ramos welcome to the premiership, basically meaning , games we should win we don't, same as under BMJ regime, no contradiction there, is there?, as I told Keanoldinho in another tread, I would wait longer to judge whether Ramos is the right man to take us a step further.

And as for me showing respect for fellow yids what about you calling fans on here fickle when not supporting jol? Where you respectful then?


The reason why I called some fans on this forum fickle is because, they were changing their opinions constanly, one moment how fantastic Jol was, and the next, get rid of him and also I was receiving abuse and personal insults just because I disagreed with certain opinions.

[peterc]

That's because Peter is fickle, fickle, fickle.

:D

Spur, I'll take this as a joke, cos I am one of the very few who sticks to my opinions.:D

[Keanoldinho]

Spur, I'll take this as a joke, cos I am one of the very few who sticks to my opinions.:D


Well mate it's good to stick to what you say regarding your word and such but opinions often change with time it doesn't make you fickle it's just that time changes everything.

Through out the whole Jol situation I was in his corner but when it got closer to the end it was plain for all to see that the best thing for all parties was for him to go. Results weren't going to go his way and he'd lost alot of the players confidence in him.

Ramos is a proven coach in a top league with a winning mentality and if you can't see the difference he's made then you must be blind. Just look at the last 2 games how he's shuffled the line up at half time made 2 subs(when did Jol ever do that) and we've turned both games on their head. But for some shoddy refereeing we woulda won today and last week.

[jrio]

Jol would have eventually delivered top four or a the very least the play-offs.
What play-offs? When do you think he would have delivered top 4? Bear in mind Moyes only did it in Benitez's first season when he was concentrating on the CL, and then promptly wasted it in the next season. I don't think he would have got it and that's not just a reflection on him, but on the structure of the club. If he was going to do it, it would have been 2 seasons ago, but all the indications are that we'd have quickly disappeared in the qualifiers as Everton did.

[Keanoldinho]

What play-offs? When do you think he would have delivered top 4? Bear in mind Moyes only did it in Benitez's first season when he was concentrating on the CL, and then promptly wasted it in the next season. I don't think he would have got it and that's not just a reflection on him, but on the structure of the club. If he was going to do it, it would have been 2 seasons ago, but all the indications are that we'd have quickly disappeared in the qualifiers as Everton did.


I think he means top 4 in the Championship;)

[TURKISH]

I think he means top 4 in the Championship;)

LOOOOOOOOOL! I think jrio missed the boat!:p ;)

[peterc]

Well mate it's good to stick to what you say regarding your word and such but opinions often change with time it doesn't make you fickle it's just that time changes everything.

Through out the whole Jol situation I was in his corner but when it got closer to the end it was plain for all to see that the best thing for all parties was for him to go. Results weren't going to go his way and he'd lost alot of the players confidence in him.

Ramos is a proven coach in a top league with a winning mentality and if you can't see the difference he's made then you must be blind. Just look at the last 2 games how he's shuffled the line up at half time made 2 subs(when did Jol ever do that) and we've turned both games on their head. But for some shoddy refereeing we woulda won today and last week.

I am not doubting any of Ramos's experience, but I cannot agree that I have seen such a great improvement since he took and as I stated before it is too early to state whether he is the right person to take us to the next step.

[Keanoldinho]

LOOOOOOOOOL! I think jrio missed the boat!:p ;)


that's ok he's alittle old now and maybe not as sharp as he once was:D

[jrio]

that's ok he's alittle old now and maybe not as sharp as he once was:D

Hmm, remember telling your mom that we should have stayed together to ensure you didn't fall in with the wrong crowd. :D

I never like to say "I told you so" but you'd have turned out so much better with your real dad. ;)

[Keanoldinho]

I am not doubting any of Ramos's experience, but I cannot agree that I have seen such a great improvement since he took and as I stated before it is too early to state whether he is the right person to take us to the next step.


There hasn't been any major improvements no because he's only been here for a month and the internationals were inbetween that, but there have been plenty of small tactical things he's been doing that if you watched closely you'd notice small improvements all over the pitch. We're creating alot more chances and our midfield has improved significantly especially JJ it's just players like Kaboul are costing us with individual errors and look at our set-piece defending since Ramos got here there's been a big improvement in that also would you not agree with that.

[jrio]

LOOOOOOOOOL! I think jrio missed the boat!:p ;)

I'd fathomed that but as a joke it doesn't work. He should have said "at the very least the Inter-Toto."

[Keanoldinho]

Hmm, remember telling your mom that we should have stayed together to ensure you didn't fall in with the wrong crowd. :D

I never like to say "I told you so" but you'd have turned out so much better with your real dad. ;)


:D ha ha ya funny ****er, I'm a stand up bloke who's living on the wrong side of the world. You try living with yanks for over 13 years it would drive you crazy too.

[TURKISH]

Hmm, remember telling your mom that we should have stayed together to ensure you didn't fall in with the wrong crowd. :D

I never like to say "I told you so" but you'd have turned out so much better with your real dad. ;)

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL!

That is some funny shit! Jrio just hits home runs all day!

[peterc]

There hasn't been any major improvements no because he's only been here for a month and the internationals were inbetween that, but there have been plenty of small tactical things he's been doing that if you watched closely you'd notice small improvements all over the pitch. We're creating alot more chances and our midfield has improved significantly especially JJ it's just players like Kaboul are costing us with individual errors and look at our set-piece defending since Ramos got here there's been a big improvement in that also would you not agree with that.

Set pieces, B'ham nearly scored from a corner today, slightly better but not much, I know it takes time, but with the squad we have and with Ramos's reputation, I expected to see more improvement and we did not have so many players on international Ramos some extra time to prepare and adapt accordingly.

[Keanoldinho]

Set pieces, B'ham nearly scored from a corner today, slightly better but not much, I know it takes time, but with the squad we have and with Ramos's reputation, I expected to see more improvement and we did not have so many players on international Ramos some extra time to prepare and adapt accordingly.



that's just aload of bollocks our set-piece defending has improved ten-fold since Ramos got here. How many set-pieces have we conceded from in Ramos 7 games in charge?

[Ginola's Son]

We're a load of ****ing shit. Bunch of pussies. I'm DISGUSTED!

[peterc]

that's just aload of bollocks our set-piece defending has improved ten-fold since Ramos got here. How many set-pieces have we conceded from in Ramos 7 games in charge?

I think (not 100% sure) that we have conceeded three or four goals from set pieces since Ramos arrived.

[peterc]

We're a load of ****ing shit. Bunch of pussies. I'm DISGUSTED!

Ramos stated this on the official website "It's important to emphasise that we lost this game though, not the referee."

[Ginola's Son]

I didn't need him to tell me that.

[spurs61]

Evening all.

Where to begin? Clearly we woz robbed this afternoon by both Birmingham and one of the worst refereeing displays I've seen in a long time. The annoying thing about the ref is that I'm sure, as usual, the FA will close ranks and support a man clearly not fit to adjudicate an under elevens game.

Fortunately Phil Dowd will not be in charge of the majority of all our games this season.:D Sadly Mr Kaboul may figure in rather more fixtures, although given his double humiliation in being replaced at centre half by Zokora it is possible that we may never see him in a white shirt again. Incidentally, although he's a bit on the short side, I like what I've seen of Didi as an emergency centre back, he can't be any worse than Younes can he?

The most worrying thing for me has been the body language and general attitude of our erstwhile hero Berbatov. Paul Walsh has hit the proverbial nail on the head in his article today;

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/football/view/22767/Dimitar-a-Disgrace/

Ok the article is slightly hysterical (it is aimed at Daily Star readers) but the point he makes is correct, had Berbatov been more determined we would have had at least a point today,probably three. Even with one man down we created suffcient chances to put the game to bed, whcih was heartening. But we effectivley start every match with only ten and a half men as 50% of Dimi is currently elsewhere. I'd love for Ramos to make a bold desicion and statement and drop Berbatov for a few games. If nothing else it tells the rest of the squad that none of them are expendible or more important than the team. I'd have said the same for Chimbonda but he at least turned in a really good and whole hearted display today, I was particularly impressed with his determination to run off a nasty knock when we won our penalty. BTW correct me if I'm wrong, but by the letter of the law Berbatov was clean through on goal and taken down by the last man, red card surely????

A few other good points were Huddlestone's impact on the game, still not mobile but passes of almost genius proportions, his through ball to Lennon disecting two defenders was breathtaking. Bale looked fantastic going forward, not so great going back but adequate and one great free kick, how did Taylor save it? Lennon looked bright and willing to take on and beat his man but boy is his final ball poor. Malbranque looks a changed player under Ramos, he's been given a licence to roam a bit although it does hamper Bale who lacks a bit of protection but he looks far more creative and has a greater impact on the game. Bent has also looked a better player, his aerial ability is fantastic and he looked like forming an understanding with Berbatov early in the first half, he needs more games and the team to play more to his strengths if he's to ever really come good.

And so to Senor Ramos, he made another tactically astute substitution at half time and has shown that he's prepared to make wholesale changes if things are not to his liking at half time. My only slight critisism today was the change when Bale went off. I thought he'd be a bit braver and got hree at the back and put on Boateng to keep boster the midfield and retain a chance of winning the game. But then I've not won two UEFA cups...

In summary, I'm suprisingly upbeat after this most annoying of defeats. It feels like a freak, Larsson will never score a better goal, Dowd will never have a worse game, neither will Dawson and (hopefully) Kaboul will never play again. We completely dominated the game, created a sackful of chances even when down to ten men and we've got a mangaer clever enough and bold enough to make big desicions. The players are clearly responding to Ramos' new stewardship and we're already playing more flowing attacking football, clearly he's figured attack is the best form of defence, especially when you've conceded over fifty goals in fifteen games. The one black spot is our brightest star (barring the the magnificent Keane) who looks more and more distant and disinterested with every passing day. His PR is fantastic but his performances stinks, I would suggest cashing in on him in January and bringing in a less talented but more commited striker. But would anyone want a sulky Bugarian who can be exhilarating and aggravating in equal measure? Sir Alex likes his players sans baggage and without a chip on their shoulder the size of Sofia.

(Note: this post was started on Sunday but took me so long to type that it is now Monday, so technically when I refer to today I mean yesterday.)

[Ginola's Son]

Well, I don't see how ANY positives can be gained from this. Big deal, Ramos is astute. So what! We still LOST! We shouldn't be losing to cack like this on our own turf. Clubs now come to the lane, expecting - and GETTING - points!

We can pass and pass and pass till the cows come home, if we don't get the ball into the net against flimsy opponents like this then we don't deserve to be playing in this division, it's just that simple.

Failure against these teams means we need to win against the better teams, and we know we just aren't capable of that. Bottom line is, we were humbled by Aalborg, by Blackpool. And beaten by the grit of Blackburn and Birmingham, who were both outplayed by us and both nicked not one, but three points. We couldn't beat Middlesbrough, we couldn't beat West Ham despite dominating both games! We only beat Wigan because they are one of two teams that are more gutless than us. We now need to go to the emirates and win? Forget it, if we concede less than 5 its a good result. Play Chelsea twice? Ha! Host Liverpool and Man United. These matches wouldn't be vital if we had beaten Bolton, Boro and Birmingham, we haven't, this is desperate times.

I can't be positive. I have no faith, I have seen with my own eyes just what Tottenham are made of today! Weak as water!

[spurs61]

I can't be positive. I have no faith, I have seen with my own eyes just what Tottenham are made of today! Weak as water!


A bit like your support? Sorry, cheap shot.

Look, there are positives to take, yes we shoukld have won but some times these things happen. We made loads of chances and the players generally looked fitter and more confident. It's easy to slip back into depression but Ramos truly is a top class tactician and he'll have a profound effect on the team, just give him a little time it's only been a month.

This is what it's like being a Spurs fan, I'm used to it. We've still got the basis of a good squad and team, it needs it needs a heart transplant but there's a soul intact somewhere.

[singapore spur]

good post from spurs61 , and i am a bit surprised with some of the reactions on here today , would put it down to frustration .
i actually thought we played well , dominated the game for 80 minutes , and were let down by the ref ( the sending off which was the major turning point ) and a couple of individual defensive errors , kaboul for the pen , and zak for being weak in the tackle and letting the guy get a shot in for their second goal .
add that to what always seem to happens a wonder goal from a normally goal shy opponent .

outside that i thought we were just unlucky , on another day with the ball dropping a bit more kindly for us , notably defoe in the 2nd half we could have had 5 or 6 . even when we were down to 10 men i thought we were the better side and the only criticism was i thought in the last 10 mins , the team maybe had decided to settle for a draw or maybe just ran out of steam and we let them back into the game .
i thought the attitude , and the work ethic from our guys was pretty good , and i even thought berby was playing well until his head dropped when keane went off , not an attitude that does himn any credit .

so , yes fecked off with the result and pretty downbeat at the moment but im not all doom and gloom , just need our luck to turn .

[Keanoldinho]

I think (not 100% sure) that we have conceeded three or four goals from set pieces since Ramos arrived.


Well mate I think you need to go and review the 7 games Ramos has been in charge because we've let 7 goals in and not 1 of them was off a set-piece. 5 of them have been in the last 2 games against Aalborg and Birmingham yesterday. Then there was the Kaboul error against wet spam and the Luke Young lucky shot against middlesborough. So get your facts right.;)

[peterc]

Well mate I think you need to go and review the 7 games Ramos has been in charge because we've let 7 goals in and not 1 of them was off a set-piece. 5 of them have been in the last 2 games against Aalborg and Birmingham yesterday. Then there was the Kaboul error against wet spam and the Luke Young lucky shot against middlesborough. So get your facts right.;)

Told you I was not too sure, but I stand to be corrected, anyway, whether set pieces or not goals are still being conceeded and results are not that great, Xmas is just round the corner and we are still in the relegation zone. I know that Ramos has not been here too long but I would have expected a better impact by now. I hope he will be able to turn it around ASAP.

[Ginola's Son]

A bit like your support? Sorry, cheap shot.

Yeah, it was a cheap shot, and if you knew it was, why did you do it. My support is ****ing absolute. How dare you! But I'm not gonna ponce on here and lie! We are currently a very very VERY poor team with a LOSING mentality. If you can't see that then you are blind. I'm not enjoying watching us lose to absolutely rubbish teams and I'm gonna say so.

Look, there are positives to take, yes we shoukld have won but some times these things happen. We made loads of chances and the players generally looked fitter and more confident. It's easy to slip back into depression but Ramos truly is a top class tactician and he'll have a profound effect on the team, just give him a little time it's only been a month.

No, no. I'm not gonna accept 'these things happen' when we have conceded at least 6 injury time goals which have cost us countless points. We'd be in a healthier position now if we didn't allow these goals to go in. These things don't JUST happen!!

This is what it's like being a Spurs fan, I'm used to it. We've still got the basis of a good squad and team, it needs it needs a heart transplant but there's a soul intact somewhere.

Yeah, this is what it's like....NOW!! We are the one of the country's greats legacy wise, up there in the all time top 4 or 5 teams. It wasn't always this way. It's only in the last 15 years or so that we've been a joke, jealous of Arsenal and a disgrace. We'd never looked better under Jol and now that era is over! You lose to the SHITE Birmingham at home and you have to ask questions!

[Keanoldinho]

Told you I was not too sure, but I stand to be corrected, anyway, whether set pieces or not goals are still being conceeded and results are not that great, Xmas is just round the corner and we are still in the relegation zone. I know that Ramos has not been here too long but I would have expected a better impact by now. I hope he will be able to turn it around ASAP.


Well that's mainly because Kaboul aint good enough and in case you didn't notice we've got a defensive crisis on our hands King, Rocha, Gardner, Ekotto, and Bale all out injured. We were clearly the better team yesterday but the ref changed the game with that red and last week we were very unlucky to with Defoe missing the pen and the ref again being a ****.

Ramos has been here a month and some of our key players were gone for a week of that so wtf do you want him to do wave his majic wand and put us in the top seven. It's not going to happen and we're not in the relegation zone we're 16th which is better than were Jol left us so again get your facts right or shut the **** up idiot.

[Ginola's Son]

Ramos has been here a month and some of our key players were gone for a week of that so wtf do you want him to do wave his majic wand and put us in the top seven. It's not going to happen and we're not in the relegation zone we're 16th which is better than were Jol left us so again get your facts right or shut the **** up idiot.

So you think losing to the crap Birmingham is part of rebuilding process? Bullshit!

[olly27]

Whoever is having ago at Ramos is absolutely thick. Couldn't wait for him to lose a game so they can bring up Jol...yes Peter C talking about you..its quite amazing, even in Ramos's short spell, that you cant see the difference in style between the two coaches regarding tactics etc..

[Ginola's Son]

Sorry Olly. Losing is losing no matter the manager.

We're just shit. how could we lose that game.

[olly27]

Sorry Olly. Losing is losing no matter the manager.

We're just shit. how could we lose that game.

Keane being sent off sealed it. Our most influential player by far. I have no doubt Ramos will be at the club for years unless he gets racked off and wants to leave. Look it was shocking we lost and what was even more shocking that Birmingham were so poor, quite unbelievable. I mean hind-sight is a wonderful thing but I did say over the summer that we should be bringing in some experience across the back. This is were we failed and it seemed so obvious at the time. We cant defend and you cant rely on scoring three goals a game to win each time when your up against much better defences than ours. I mean look at even West Spams defence, far superior to ours...and they spent plenty on attacking players too. I wish for one minute that we stop buying just young talent as its not going to improve us in the short term...what we craved was some experience and we never got it.

[Ginola's Son]

I'm so down cos we can't win in the league. I don't even care about the UEFA cup now, this situation is unbeleivably desparate.

[mjbmedia]

Whoever thinks going into a game with tactics and a setup we've never used before is a good idea is thick. :D

End of the day yeh Ramos has changed a lot of things in his matches, but we've only had success with it V Aalborg and then we shouldnt have been 2 down anyway.
Luck, no luck, late goals, bad misses, injuries, same as it was with Jol .
I dont see any improvement on how the team were this time last season, of course theres improvement from this seasons start cos theres no noose hanging over the bosses head but we havnt played any team of the calibre of Man U and Liverpool yet under Juande and yet we also havent played as well as we did in those two games (away as they were too)

[olly27]

The one massive positive is Ramos. If we can keep him!!!! Look GS write off the league for this season...will end up tenth or something. Let Ramos build up his knowledge on the premiership and put his blueprint on the team. I know youv'e heard it before...but think of next season, Ramos is a gem trust me and will be here for a long time. We will be back trust me.

[olly27]

Whoever thinks going into a game with tactics and a setup we've never used before is a good idea is thick. :D

End of the day yeh Ramos has changed a lot of things in his matches, but we've only had success with it V Aalborg and then we shouldnt have been 2 down anyway.
Luck, no luck, late goals, bad misses, injuries, same as it was with Jol .
I dont see any improvement on how the team were this time last season, of course theres improvement from this seasons start cos theres no noose hanging over the bosses head but we havnt played any team of the calibre of Man U and Liverpool yet under Juande and yet we also havent played as well as we did in those two games (away as they were too)

Your a mug end of.

[mjbmedia]

Your a mug end of.
try to deny any of the points ive made then or just stick to the needless abuse :rolleyes:

[olly27]

try to deny any of the points ive made then or just stick to the needless abuse :rolleyes:

LOL your telling me someone who has one the UEFA CUP two years running is thick!!!!! He went for the game from the start and we should of battered them.

[Ginola's Son]

To be honest, I don't really see an improvement either. And we didn't get humiliated by crap teams under Jol, Sunderland was a freak, no-one would have won that game

[olly27]

To be honest, I don't really see an improvement either. And we didn't get humiliated by crap teams under Jol, Sunderland was a freak, no-one would have won that game

So 6 games in and your judging already. Quite unbelievable and wreeks of total impatience. You cant expect miracles over night and problems this bad arn't fixed in instant.

[Ginola's Son]

Yeah. I'm bloody judging mate. 6 games is more than enough to see a significant improvement. Remember, I'm a Jol loyalist, so this messiah better start weaving his magic pretty damn quick or we'll be talking about our trip to S****horpe!

[olly27]

Yeah. I'm bloody judging mate. 6 games is more than enough to see a significant improvement. Remember, I'm a Jol loyalist, so this messiah better start weaving his magic pretty damn quick or we'll be talking about our trip to S****horpe!

Look I liked Jol too, but am much more confident about Ramos. Your extremely negative GS, not surprising your a Spurs fan after all!, but try and be more positive....see the big picture. Why have the scum been so successful...a certain Mr Wenger. We have our man now...give him time to work his magic.

[Ginola's Son]

I don't remember Mr Wenger ever being in charge of a team this pathetic. Ramos has his work cut out.

I have a right to be negative. Why waste your time trying to deflect guaranteed disappointment

[TURKISH]

I don't remember Mr Wenger ever being in charge of a team this pathetic. Ramos has his work cut out.

I have a right to be negative. Why waste your time trying to deflect guaranteed disappointment

Wenger is hardly worth comparing to what ramos has to work with. When wenger took over arsenal he inherited a back 6 of seaman, bold, adams, winterburn, dixon and keown. What has ramos got just daws, chimbonda, bale and robbo. Centre back as you well know is our biggest problem, shame this wasn't sorted out during the summer as everyone on here wanted an experienced cb for when king was out injured.

Ramos as you said has his work cut out but in my opinion only when rocha comes back. Kaboul is just struggling and chimbonda is ideal nor is zokora.

We have to start at the bottom and to be fair its not like we are losing these games 4.0 ect we are at least scoring. The defence can only get better and i have every faith in Ramos's abilitys to make us successful.

Hopefully ginola son we will get that lady luck on our side as we seem have a curse on our club especially when the clock says 90minutes!:confused:

[choda]

I'd fathomed that but as a joke it doesn't work. He should have said "at the very least the Inter-Toto."

I think most people got that I meant top 4 in the championship. ;)

You didn't cotton it. As we speak I'm throwing you down a rope ladder. I'd advise you climb up with your dignity still intact, because if you keep digging at the rate you are you're to end up in Australia. :p :D

And then you might have to be befriend Juice just to get a glimpse of your beloved spurs. That would be sitcom material all in itself. I'm thinking 'the new odd couple.' :D

[Ginola's Son]

We have to start at the bottom and to be fair its not like we are losing these games 4.0 ect we are at least scoring. The defence can only get better and i have every faith in Ramos's abilitys to make us successful.

I don't think the degree of the defeat matters, the point is...no points

[olly27]

Wenger is hardly worth comparing to what ramos has to work with. When wenger took over arsenal he inherited a back 6 of seaman, bold, adams, winterburn, dixon and keown. What has ramos got just daws, chimbonda, bale and robbo. Centre back as you well know is our biggest problem, shame this wasn't sorted out during the summer as everyone on here wanted an experienced cb for when king was out injured.

Ramos as you said has his work cut out but in my opinion only when rocha comes back. Kaboul is just struggling and chimbonda is ideal nor is zokora.

We have to start at the bottom and to be fair its not like we are losing these games 4.0 ect we are at least scoring. The defence can only get better and i have every faith in Ramos's abilitys to make us successful.

Hopefully ginola son we will get that lady luck on our side as we seem have a curse on our club especially when the clock says 90minutes!:confused:

I was trying to illustrate how invaluable it can be to have the right sort of manager. I just think Ramos will be a success here given time, I am looking at the bigger picture and towards the future. I was speaking generally and was not specifically comparing the two mangers, nevermind extra detail of squads inherited etc etc..

[peterc]

Whoever is having ago at Ramos is absolutely thick. Couldn't wait for him to lose a game so they can bring up Jol...yes Peter C talking about you..its quite amazing, even in Ramos's short spell, that you cant see the difference in style between the two coaches regarding tactics etc..

Thick, that we can't beat the brommies, we were the better team but still not taking the chances, a big change to Jol then? bollocks.

[peterc]

Well that's mainly because Kaboul aint good enough and in case you didn't notice we've got a defensive crisis on our hands King, Rocha, Gardner, Ekotto, and Bale all out injured. We were clearly the better team yesterday but the ref changed the game with that red and last week we were very unlucky to with Defoe missing the pen and the ref again being a ****.

That is a very weak excuse, to lose to the Brmooies is embarrassing.

Ramos has been here a month and some of our key players were gone for a week of that so wtf do you want him to do wave his majic wand and put us in the top seven. It's not going to happen and we're not in the relegation zone we're 16th which is better than were Jol left us so again get your facts right or shut the **** up idiot.

Ramos has been here a month and one would expect more impact witthin the team, we still miss chances, midfield that practically non existant, defence all over the place. Bringing on Defoe instead of Bent, great substitution, So I won't shut up and I edited this post not to lower myself to your insults and foul language.

[jrio]

I think most people got that I meant top 4 in the championship. ;)


It doesn't really work because you have to get relegated first. You would have been better off recycling the old Jasper Carrot gag about still being able to get into Europe - if there's a war.

I was even more surprised to see you suggesting Jol would have got us relegated, albeit as a minor joke. That's a bit ungracious, particularly when you've previously suggested the team was capable of top 4.

[Ginola's Son]

I've never thought the team was capable of top 4, and even if we were, the FA would stop us

[shakey18]

Dear oh Dear oh ****in dear.Giving Ramos shit after 6 games?.Look we lost, the defence is shite, but we still should have won.If Birmingham had come down and outplayed us, we'd all have cause to complain, but they didn't.The team Ramos is putting out is entirely inherited, and the squad is in the middle of a defensive injury crisis.There has been a definite improvement under Ramos, but we are having no luck.Getting involved in a Jol vs Ramos thing again is no help to man nor beast.Perspective required lads...

[Ginola's Son]

Sorry, what perspective would you suggest I take? We can't win any games, no matter who the manager.

[choda]

It doesn't really work because you have to get relegated first. You would have been better off recycling the old Jasper Carrot gag about still being able to get into Europe - if there's a war.

I was even more surprised to see you suggesting Jol would have got us relegated, albeit as a minor joke. That's a bit ungracious, particularly when you've previously suggested the team was capable of top 4.

FOR YOU it didn't work. ;)

Why did you have to make it about one year? I think you ****ed it up, not me.

And I doubt you latched onto it at all because you reacted like it was a serious comment. Sounds to me like you are afraid to admit that you missed a trick and are scrambling to save face. :o :p :D

To placate you, try this one, 'Jol would have delivered top four in the next few years, or at the very least the play-offs.' Happy Jrio?

And it was a total gag by the way. I doubt we'd have been relegated under Jol. My prediction had he stayed was 10th and more failures against the big sides both in the league and at crucial times in the cups.

Next year he may have got us back into the Uefa, after more pots of money spent with a heavy dose of hindsight. I don't think he'd have ever turned us into a geniunely top side though. I think Ramos will in time, though CL qualification may become something of a revolving door between six teams. I predict good things for City under Sven and that Thai who will back him with wads of Thai taxpayer's money.

I reckon Villa, Newcastle, Portsmouth, Everton and Blackburn will always be competing to be head of the rubbish tip (as things stand as regards money and managers).

[Keanoldinho]

Ramos has been here a month and one would expect more impact witthin the team, we still miss chances, midfield that practically non existant, defence all over the place. Bringing on Defoe instead of Bent, great substitution, So I won't shut up and I edited this post not to lower myself to your insults and foul language.


well if you had to edit the post 30 minutes later that means you already lowered yourself to my terrible level of foul language and shit talking dumbass and now you're trying to save face by editing your post before I get to read it and laugh at you.:D

Anyway I'm done talking to all you slow fecking retarded Jol loyalists because you lot have clearly lost the plot. Jol is a great man but his time was up he knew and most everyone else did to.;)

this is just for you peterc


Juande Ramos Blue and White Army dipshit

get used to it he's going to be around for awhile no need to sulk and nit pick like a bitch going through menopause

[peterc]

Juande Ramos Blue and White Army dipshit

get used to it he's going to be around for awhile no need to sulk and nit pick like a bitch going through menopause[/QUOTE]


I hope he is, but I would have expected his presence to have shown some sort of impact, to lose to the brummies and at home is one that is hard to accept.:o

[mjbmedia]

dont think anyones anti Ramos certainly not on here, just be nice if there was some semblence of fairness (for want of a better word this early in the morning) .

We lose to the Brummies and its everyone elses fault but Ramos'. Juande has said he's not blaming the ref for losing, yet on here you do.
We're behind and end up drawing v W Ham and he gets tons of praise for the changes but no bollocking for being behind (fair enough IMO) yet V Villa we come back from more than 1 down and theres no praise for the comeback only ridicule for being behind.

Just as some dont want to praise him much for doing not much to date, others seem to want to lavish praise on him for doing the basics of his job.

We're still missing chances, we're still giving chances away. Yes we outplayed Birmingham at home, whoohoo, we still lost, not much to get praised for really?. We outplayed Man U at Old Trafford , a much harder task, we still lost, we outplayed or at worst levelled with Liverpool at Anfield and drew = no praise only scorn for a last minute goal conceded. we conceded last minute V Birmingham and thats everyone elses fault but the boss' cos it was good that he was still going for the win with 10 men , it would have been good had we still come away with a point but we didnt., instead we gave 3 points to a relegation rival.

O I can see small improvements here and there, nothing to eulogise over yet and certainly nothing that improves on us from last season, i think the people who were so delighted he came here are now so desperate for him to prove himself that theyre painting a rosier picture than there really is to date, be more realistic about what we're witnessing and the results we're getting and wait til we play some top 6 in form teams.

[Spur]

The tone has definately been lowered.

[olly27]

dont think anyones anti Ramos certainly not on here, just be nice if there was some semblence of fairness (for want of a better word this early in the morning) .

We lose to the Brummies and its everyone elses fault but Ramos'. Juande has said he's not blaming the ref for losing, yet on here you do.
We're behind and end up drawing v W Ham and he gets tons of praise for the changes but no bollocking for being behind (fair enough IMO) yet V Villa we come back from more than 1 down and theres no praise for the comeback only ridicule for being behind.

Just as some dont want to praise him much for doing not much to date, others seem to want to lavish praise on him for doing the basics of his job.

We're still missing chances, we're still giving chances away. Yes we outplayed Birmingham at home, whoohoo, we still lost, not much to get praised for really?. We outplayed Man U at Old Trafford , a much harder task, we still lost, we outplayed or at worst levelled with Liverpool at Anfield and drew = no praise only scorn for a last minute goal conceded. we conceded last minute V Birmingham and thats everyone elses fault but the boss' cos it was good that he was still going for the win with 10 men , it would have been good had we still come away with a point but we didnt., instead we gave 3 points to a relegation rival.

O I can see small improvements here and there, nothing to eulogise over yet and certainly nothing that improves on us from last season, i think the people who were so delighted he came here are now so desperate for him to prove himself that theyre painting a rosier picture than there really is to date, be more realistic about what we're witnessing and the results we're getting and wait til we play some top 6 in form teams.


Your still comparing Ramos to Jol and he has had 6 games..laughable, seriously get a grip and some perspective while your at it. At least put a realistic time frame on it before comparing.

[olly27]

Dear oh Dear oh ****in dear.Giving Ramos shit after 6 games?.Look we lost, the defence is shite, but we still should have won.If Birmingham had come down and outplayed us, we'd all have cause to complain, but they didn't.The team Ramos is putting out is entirely inherited, and the squad is in the middle of a defensive injury crisis.There has been a definite improvement under Ramos, but we are having no luck.Getting involved in a Jol vs Ramos thing again is no help to man nor beast.Perspective required lads...

Glad to hear someone talking sense mate.

[mjbmedia]

Your still comparing Ramos to Jol and he has had 6 games..laughable, seriously get a grip and some perspective while your at it. At least put a realistic time frame on it before comparing.
O so its ok others comparing them as long as theyre in Ramos' favour as i notice you dont pick holes in any other views other than mine and Petes simpy cos we're not overcome with the 'improvements' unlike many other short sighted and short memoried people on here.
try reading the last paragraph of my previous post on this thread, youll see i suggest better judgement after we have played some better teams ie next three league games to Xmas at least.

[peterc]

O so its ok others comparing them as long as theyre in Ramos' favour as i notice you dont pick holes in any other views other than mine and Petes simpy cos we're not overcome with the 'improvements' unlike many other short sighted and short memoried people on here.
try reading the last paragraph of my previous post on this thread, youll see i suggest better judgement after we have played some better teams ie next three league games to Xmas at least.

MJB, I'll give Ramos as much time as he wants, but at present I am not convinced he is the right person to get us out of this mess, let alone take us forward to the next step.

[olly27]

O so its ok others comparing them as long as theyre in Ramos' favour as i notice you dont pick holes in any other views other than mine and Petes simpy cos we're not overcome with the 'improvements' unlike many other short sighted and short memoried people on here.
try reading the last paragraph of my previous post on this thread, youll see i suggest better judgement after we have played some better teams ie next three league games to Xmas at least.

Simple explanation is I agree with most other views on here apart from yourself and Peter C pertaining to this particular topic. Given the shattered confidence and defensive shambles would any other manager have made a better start or would Jol have done better over the last 6 games? I doubt it. So allowing for these difficulties I still maintain that Ramos has had a reasonable start. I think most knowledgeable fans see the difference between the two managers already and will afford Mr Ramos latitude (to a degree) due to the problematic circumstances he inherited.

[shakey18]

MJB, I'll give Ramos as much time as he wants, but at present I am not convinced he is the right person to get us out of this mess, let alone take us forward to the next step.

Can i respectfully ask what you base your view on?.The man has pedigree, has won things and qualified for the champions league, whilst playing attacking football.He's been at our club for SIX games, and even though things aren't exactly rosy, there are signs of improvement.A prime example of this is our defending from set-pieces.I would have thought he was JUST the man to take us forward.

[Gino Ginelli]

Hello all, I've only just now managed to get myself into the mindset required to post on this game. I am left bewildered, saddened and (to my horror) feeling an almost masochistic sense of justice at our inexplicable defeat on Sunday. Why? Because at some point in the second half, some point in the last 20 minutes, Larrson(?) swung a right boot at the ball, which promptly soared into the crowd. Harmless looking, but an air of inevitablity suddenly swirled around my thoughts. Barely 5 minutes later, Kapo's wild freekick was sliced wide of the post, but from the deceptive camera angle, it appeared to be going in. This settled it. I knew what was coming, and what's more, I wanted it to happen! In order for Ramos to see, clearer than he had before, the mountainous task that towers before him.

To see what happens to us in these situations. That a goal for us can mean one or two for them. That missed opportunities and slack defending leads to this form of punishment. That we've seen this happen time and time again. And that it needs sorting. NOW!

So once Larrson(??) shrugged off the half-hearted attentions of DB9 (more like a knackered Robin Reliant) his off balance swipe at glory was always going to rocket directly into the postage stamp of the goal, beyond the despairing Robinson, no doubt screaming "WHHYYYYY??!!!" as he landed like an undercooked Yorkshire Pudding. And rather than cry in anger at the screen I merely sank resignedly into my laz-y-boy and muttered "knew it" to my Dog, who by this time was looking very concerened at the cushion I'd flung at Dawsons on-screen image earlier.

Speaking of Dawson, what the hell has happened to him?! He had an absolute blinder last season, so why is he now completely shit? Both the first Brum goals came down to him, both times he followed the ball, lost concentration and let his man run free. The penalty came about due to Kaboul having to race over to cover the man Dawson let go. It doesn't excuse his clumsiness, but Dawson should have never allowed him the chance to get the position. The same happened with the 2nd goal. Let his man get away, Zokora tried to get in way (failed woefully) and gave the lad the time to score (it was a tidy finish mind). He's letting my home town down badly here!

Ramos got it wrong in the first half. 4-3-3 can work if the midfield trio is enterprising enough; for example JJ, Boateng and Hudd would probably do it okay, but Steed, Lennon and Zokora aren't. But he saw that, so well done for making the change, rightly booting Kaboul for the 2nd game running, bringing on Hudd into the midfield. It paid dividends immediatley, with the ever excellent Keane bringing us percieved salvation. BTW, that was NOT a red card. Ever! Complete bollocks and Dowd should have his license taken away. Imbecile.

But regardless of Keane's goals, we still need to get more chances put away. Keane blew 2 good chances himself, Berbatov (who was shite) hit a post, when he should be burying that, never mind actually trying to get into a good position anyway. Bent... did he have a chance? Can't remember. As for JD, I've supported him, but he got into good positions here and blew them all. Big lack of conviction from him there.

But the defence is so badly positioned and careless, it matters not a jot how much we score, because any venture into our third from an opposition can mean a goal! We're not concededing from set pieces anymore, and we even look kinda effective from them ourselves. But we're now making basic, schoolboy errors in marking, positioning and communication, or lack thereof.

Solutions? Well finishing and man-marking has to be on the agenda.

And for the love of monkeys, will someone teach Lennon how to cross the ****ing ball?!! GAAHH!

[mjbmedia]

im not pro jol or pro ramos, just pro Spurs. what i think is strange is that the ones you say are knowledgeable are judging Ramos on games v mediocre opponents, all but two of which we couldnt beat and are saying things re the Ramos short era that theyd never have said about the Jol times ie come backs when being behind are all down to ramos and Jol would never have managed it yet how many times did we come from behind to win/draw under Jol , Also the Brummie thing is all down to the ref yet im sure if Jol was in charge it would have all been his fault, hed have been bolloxed for playing for a draw and probably getting a point as opposed to Ramos who you could say went for the win and got nothing .

Im glad he went for the win, id rather that but then im fairer on the level of praise im dishing out in relation to what weve done to date with an already assembled strong squad that got us 5th two years running , now if we outplay the opponents in our next three league games then that would be impressive even if we dont come away with max points.

[Spur]

im not pro jol or pro ramos, just pro Spurs. what i think is strange is that the ones you say are knowledgeable are judging Ramos on games v mediocre opponents, all but two of which we couldnt beat and are saying things re the Ramos short era that theyd never have said about the Jol times ie come backs when being behind are all down to ramos and Jol would never have managed it yet how many times did we come from behind to win/draw under Jol , Also the Brummie thing is all down to the ref yet im sure if Jol was in charge it would have all been his fault, hed have been bolloxed for playing for a draw and probably getting a point as opposed to Ramos who you could say went for the win and got nothing .

Im glad he went for the win, id rather that but then im fairer on the level of praise im dishing out in relation to what weve done to date with an already assembled strong squad that got us 5th two years running , now if we outplay the opponents in our next three league games then that would be impressive even if we dont come away with max points.

If Jol was in charge we would not have played so well in the first place. Sad to say it, but that is the truth. And it's not down to him being undermined either. It's because he lost it.

[Keanoldinho]

im not pro jol or pro ramos, just pro Spurs. what i think is strange is that the ones you say are knowledgeable are judging Ramos on games v mediocre opponents, all but two of which we couldnt beat and are saying things re the Ramos short era that theyd never have said about the Jol times ie come backs when being behind are all down to ramos and Jol would never have managed it yet how many times did we come from behind to win/draw under Jol , Also the Brummie thing is all down to the ref yet im sure if Jol was in charge it would have all been his fault, hed have been bolloxed for playing for a draw and probably getting a point as opposed to Ramos who you could say went for the win and got nothing .

Im glad he went for the win, id rather that but then im fairer on the level of praise im dishing out in relation to what weve done to date with an already assembled strong squad that got us 5th two years running , now if we outplay the opponents in our next three league games then that would be impressive even if we dont come away with max points.


Well then lets all get behind Ramos and the boys and see were he leads us over the course of this next month because by Jan 1st we'll have played alot more games and some tough opposition. I just hope Rocha, King, or even Gardner:eek: is back soon.

[mjbmedia]

If Jol was in charge we would not have played so well in the first place. Sad to say it, but that is the truth. And it's not down to him being undermined either. It's because he lost it.
did he lose it before he was undermined then??? on a regular basis i mean eg during the good run at the end of last season that saw us nab 5th , er no , earlier on last seaso nwhen we had another good unbeaten run??? er no. ok he wanked up against Chelsea and Arsenal in the cups but they are against two of the best teams and coaches in football.

Ahh you mean when there was zero motivation for him to do well cos he knew that he was off at the end of the season at the latest, yes well hardly surprising then is it?

[mjbmedia]

Well then lets all get behind Ramos and the boys and see were he leads us over the course of this next month because by Jan 1st we'll have played alot more games and some tough opposition. I just hope Rocha, King, or even Gardner:eek: is back soon.
spot on, I am behind them all as always and im confident for the future, but then 99% of people on here were confident of this season in July :mad:

[peterc]

Can i respectfully ask what you base your view on?.The man has pedigree, has won things and qualified for the champions league, whilst playing attacking football.He's been at our club for SIX games, and even though things aren't exactly rosy, there are signs of improvement.A prime example of this is our defending from set-pieces.I would have thought he was JUST the man to take us forward.

Simple by recent results. results win you points, for us to lose against B'Ham is so hard to digest. With Ramos's talent I would have expected more impact by now, saying that I am not anti Ramos, he is the main man and I hope he will manage to turn things around, can't see him managing us in the Championship League, can you?

[Keanoldinho]

Simple by recent results. results win you points, for us to lose against B'Ham is so hard to digest. With Ramos's talent I would have expected more impact by now, saying that I am not anti Ramos, he is the main man and I hope he will manage to turn things around, can't see him managing us in the Championship League, can you?


Not this season but if anyone can break the top 4 he can. Next season will be a big year for him and Tottenham. Once he's had a chance to bring in some of his players and shape the team to his liking then anything is possible. What he accomplished with Seville was no small feat.

[mjbmedia]

Speaking of Dawson, what the hell has happened to him?! He had an absolute blinder last season, so why is he now completely shit? Both the first Brum goals came down to him, both times he followed the ball, lost concentration and let his man run free. The penalty came about due to Kaboul having to race over to cover the man Dawson let go. It doesn't excuse his clumsiness, but Dawson should have never allowed him the chance to get the position. The same happened with the 2nd goal. Let his man get away, Zokora tried to get in way (failed woefully) and gave the lad the time to score (it was a tidy finish mind). He's letting my home town down badly here!

well done for actually saying what you saw and not just copying the tv commentators or journalists print, only other person who noticed Dawson at fault more than Kaboul , gold star, top of the class. :cool:

[peterc]

Not this season but if anyone can break the top 4 he can. Next season will be a big year for him and Tottenham. Once he's had a chance to bring in some of his players and shape the team to his liking then anything is possible. What he accomplished with Seville was no small feat.

Funny you should say that, as MJB has mentioned on quite a few occasions, practically the same players managed to get us to fifth position twice, so why would Ramos need to offload a bunch of players to take us to the top four. As regards what Ramos accomplished for Serville, I don't think that one can really compare La Liga to the Premiership, as Rafa found out, he won the CL but still can't win the premiership.

[mjbmedia]

Not this season but if anyone can break the top 4 he can. Next season will be a big year for him and Tottenham. Once he's had a chance to bring in some of his players and shape the team to his liking then anything is possible. What he accomplished with Seville was no small feat.
Im not arguing with you, i dont argue, but ....:p the top 4 in Spain are easier to break into than the top 4 here. Yes Barca and Real are shoe ins for top 4 but the other two spots regularly change hands, hell even Celta Vigo were there a couple of seasons back, then got relegated!!!

He did well at Seville i agree, but will be harder to replicate that over here i think.

[Keanoldinho]

Funny you should say that, as MJB has mentioned on quite a few occasions, practically the same players managed to get us to fifth position twice, so why would Ramos need to offload a bunch of players to take us to the top four. As regards what Ramos accomplished for Serville, I don't think that one can really compare La Liga to the Premiership, as Rafa found out, he won the CL but still can't win the premiership.



oh ffs because they're not his players and guess what we're not a top 5 team anymore everyone else who were right behind us strengthened their weaknesses we didn't City, Villa, Blackburn, Portsmouth they're all better teams now. The only player we bought that's a legit starter is Bale and he can't stay fit.

[Keanoldinho]

Im not arguing with you, i dont argue, but ....:p the top 4 in Spain are easier to break into than the top 4 here. Yes Barca and Real are shoe ins for top 4 but the other two spots regularly change hands, hell even Celta Vigo were there a couple of seasons back, then got relegated!!!

He did well at Seville i agree, but will be harder to replicate that over here i think.


He didn't break the top 4 he broke the top 3 and was challenging the 2 gaints of La Liga for all the silverware and winning some of it. 5 trophies in 2 years speaks for itself really. I don't think it will be harder over here you're not giving him enough credit for what he did in Spain. He'll have more money and if you look at his Seville team it wasn't abunch of kids Ramos likes experienced players who are developed already and blends that with abit of youth. We've got abunch of fecking kids and no experience. All he needs is sometime this is undoubtably still Jols squad that Ramos is managing.

[peterc]

oh ffs because they're not his players and guess what we're not a top 5 team anymore everyone else who were right behind us strengthened their weaknesses we didn't City, Villa, Blackburn, Portsmouth they're all better teams now. The only player we bought that's a legit starter is Bale and he can't stay fit.

Wow, we all know they are not Ramos's choice of players, as regards to strenghtening the team, it will all depend on who chooses the players, Ramos or Comolli?

[Keanoldinho]

Wow, we all know they are not Ramos's choice of players, as regards to strenghtening the team, it will all depend on who chooses the players, Ramos or Comolli?


Very true but I doubt Ramos woulda came here if he wasn't allowed to bring in the players he wanted. I'm pretty sure Comolli needs Ramos backing if he's going to sign any first team players. Ramos is to smart to put himself in that sort of position.

[peterc]

Very true but I doubt Ramos woulda came here if he wasn't allowed to bring in the players he wanted. I'm pretty sure Comolli needs Ramos backing if he's going to sign any first team players. Ramos is to smart to put himself in that sort of position.

Well, Levy has made it known that if Ramos does not succeed Comolli's head will role.:eek:

[jrio]

Funny you should say that, as MJB has mentioned on quite a few occasions, practically the same players managed to get us to fifth position twice, so why would Ramos need to offload a bunch of players to take us to the top four.

He also managed to take us to 18th with the same group plus £40m worth of players, and no signs of any radical transformation. The stats behind that last 5th place tell the real story - the lack of clean sheets, numerous heavy defeats and goals repeatedly conceded from distance and deadballs. Jol had run out of steam, something that isn't just attributable to his management but due to the lack of solidarity at the club. Managers have different ways of working and the mix of players we have are clearly inadequate to support Ramos' style. We've railed for long about the lack of backbone in central midfield and inbalances in the squad. Primarily, we need experienced back-up for King, a DM to replace Zokora and further investment on the left.

[peterc]

He also managed to take us to 18th with the same group plus £40m worth of players, and no signs of any radical transformation. The stats behind that last 5th place tell the real story - the lack of clean sheets, numerous heavy defeats and goals repeatedly conceded from distance and deadballs. Jol had run out of steam, something that isn't just attributable to his management but due to the lack of solidarity at the club. Managers have different ways of working and the mix of players we have are clearly inadequate to support Ramos' style. We've railed for long about the lack of backbone in central midfield and inbalances in the squad. Primarily, we need experienced back-up for King, a DM to replace Zokora and further investment on the left.

But still manages to get a decent result against liverpool and unlucky to lose against Man U, with all the extra pressure from the media due to the balls up that the board did and still manages to get such results. I don't think that was a manager running out of steam, more of a manager who was kicked out of his job due to the jibes from the board and media. I hope Ramos will succeed, however, if we don't survive the premiership this season, can't see him managing us in the Championship League.

[Spur]

did he lose it before he was undermined then??? on a regular basis i mean eg during the good run at the end of last season that saw us nab 5th , er no , earlier on last seaso nwhen we had another good unbeaten run??? er no. ok he wanked up against Chelsea and Arsenal in the cups but they are against two of the best teams and coaches in football.

Ahh you mean when there was zero motivation for him to do well cos he knew that he was off at the end of the season at the latest, yes well hardly surprising then is it?

No it was around January last year when he also almost got his P45. During one of our infamous bad runs which you seem to be completely ignoring for some strange reason.

And we were'nt talking to Juande back then was we.

I will ignore your last paragraph as you yourself are questioning his professionalism.

[mjbmedia]

No it was around January last year when he also almost got his P45. During one of our infamous bad runs which you seem to be completely ignoring for some strange reason.

And we were'nt talking to Juande back then was we.

I will ignore your last paragraph as you yourself are questioning his professionalism.
ahh you mean sandwiched between the good runs that you seem to be ignoring what was it unbeaten for a record number of league games for Spurs certainly in recent history. we have bad runs every January, have had every season (near enough to not argue about it) since i can remember.

Re his professionalism , not being questioned at all, his desire and motivation would have been hampered but we still outplayed Man u and Liverpool at their place despite the threat of the sack , if his professionalism was lacking he'd hardly have sat on the bench V Getafe would he?? Suggest you look upstairs for the lack of professionalism regarding Jols exit, tho one of thems done a runner now ,or more like a flopping bounce.

[mjbmedia]

He also managed to take us to 18th with the same group plus £40m worth of players, and no signs of any radical transformation. The stats behind that last 5th place tell the real story - the lack of clean sheets, numerous heavy defeats and goals repeatedly conceded from distance and deadballs. Jol had run out of steam, something that isn't just attributable to his management but due to the lack of solidarity at the club. Managers have different ways of working and the mix of players we have are clearly inadequate to support Ramos' style. We've railed for long about the lack of backbone in central midfield and inbalances in the squad. Primarily, we need experienced back-up for King, a DM to replace Zokora and further investment on the left.
Good post, a proper balanced view, not some cheap shot at a departed boss whod done us good while here and whilst supported by his board. Also £40m of players, a majority of which he didnt ask for.
Re the last sentence, why then is Commolli still here if we still need these postions filled? :confused: and why (tho im thankful they have) do the goalposts change for Ramos as opposed to Jol re the signing of players (ok i know why cos hes Commoillis man, it was a rhetorical question)

[Spur]

ahh you mean sandwiched between the good runs that you seem to be ignoring what was it unbeaten for a record number of league games for Spurs certainly in recent history. we have bad runs every January, have had every season (near enough to not argue about it) since i can remember.

Re his professionalism , not being questioned at all, his desire and motivation would have been hampered but we still outplayed Man u and Liverpool at their place despite the threat of the sack , if his professionalism was lacking he'd hardly have sat on the bench V Getafe would he?? Suggest you look upstairs for the lack of professionalism regarding Jols exit, tho one of thems done a runner now ,or more like a flopping bounce.

I'm not ignoring anything. With 4 or 5 games to go we were in the bottom half last year, if results hadn't gone our way there would be no mention of a second 5th place in a row.

Bearing in mind the biggest problems we have right now started back then and because they weren't sorted out they are still hampering us do you not think it is wise to ask why?

We let in bundles of goals last year from set-pieces - something which has stopped within game #1 of new management and has so far lasted 7 games if i'm not mistaken. Coincidence?

There is no need to go through all the reasons again. In my eyes Martin Jol didn't have it anymore, he took us to 5th twice, once we should of got 4th and once was very fortuitous, well done to the bloke and thanks BMJ your a ledge, but when you start being the problem for the team - THE CLUB - then you have to go. Sorry Mart.

[jrio]

Good post, a proper balanced view, not some cheap shot at a departed boss whod done us good while here and whilst supported by his board. Also £40m of players, a majority of which he didnt ask for.
Re the last sentence, why then is Commolli still here if we still need these postions filled? :confused: and why (tho im thankful they have) do the goalposts change for Ramos as opposed to Jol re the signing of players (ok i know why cos hes Commoillis man, it was a rhetorical question)

Thanks for that. I have eulogised on Jol at great length on a few occasions, specifically referring as to how he'd returned respect, integrity and dignity to the club, qualities definitely lacking in the previous 15 years. He restored a sense of pride and honour, convincing fans that "their" Tottenham was back. It seemed a very, very long way away when Santini had left, and Levy's latest bright initiative looked tattered and torn.

Comolli is here because Levy's convinced that he has played a great part in Arsenal's success at finding young foreign players and turning them into valuable professionals. He won't change that view because then he becomes culpable on the back of his past grand errors in sacking Graham at a totally inappropriate time, sacking Hoddle without having any tenable alternative, and appointing Santini, thinking that was a fantastic coup.

Is it conceivable that Jol, who'd immediately established Carrick as the fulcrum of his midfield(to the extent that it disenfranchised Mendes), regarded Zokora as an appropriate replacement? Disregard public statements - what else is he supposed to say? That he thinks player X isn't really what he wanted, identifies why he lacks those qualities, but admits he's constrained by a Comolli/Levy axis? Jol was in no position to do that, as no manager is(you have to read the "code", like Benitez being spotlighted for mentioning training and coaching his team 15 times at a pre-match conference, the repetition indicating that there were big fractions between him and the owners).

In many ways Jol was an affront to Levy. After being the reject of Arnesen's recommendation, he supplanted Levy's "world class" name and surpassed him, forming a bond with fans unseen since Nicholson, yet without anything like the success(a product of the times, I'm afraid). Jol, astoningishly, will perhaps be the most loved of any Spurs manager in the last 30 years. A major part of that will be his unwillingness to whinge and whine(who can forget the alacrity with which he accepted Mendes' non-goal at ManU?), give a long, cheeky smile and talk intelligently about the game that had just passed. I always felt an amazing sense of pride and possession of him when I watched those interviews. Jol was a more than decent manager without having that star quality to beat the top sides(and he really did shoot himself in the foot with his changes in the Chelsea FA Cup game), and make Spurs a side to be feared. Levy wanted more than that but needs to look at himself a little bit deeply when he seeks the blame for continuing disillusionment.

[singapore spur]

great post jrio

[Gino Ginelli]

I second Jrio's last post. I echo his sentiments here.

[mjbmedia]

I'm not ignoring anything. With 4 or 5 games to go we were in the bottom half last year, if results hadn't gone our way there would be no mention of a second 5th place in a row.

Bearing in mind the biggest problems we have right now started back then and because they weren't sorted out they are still hampering us do you not think it is wise to ask why?

We let in bundles of goals last year from set-pieces - something which has stopped within game #1 of new management and has so far lasted 7 games if i'm not mistaken. Coincidence?

There is no need to go through all the reasons again. In my eyes Martin Jol didn't have it anymore, he took us to 5th twice, once we should of got 4th and once was very fortuitous, well done to the bloke and thanks BMJ your a ledge, but when you start being the problem for the team - THE CLUB - then you have to go. Sorry Mart.
fair enough mate, i echo the last paragraph, i just dont like seeing peopel disrespect what he/we done with Jol in charge, but then i dont think you do disrespect it

[Spur]

fair enough mate, i echo the last paragraph, i just dont like seeing peopel disrespect what he/we done with Jol in charge, but then i dont think you do disrespect it

Only a fool would.

[Ginola's Son]

All this talk is bollocks until our point total rises

[olly27]

Two great posts Jrio. I certainly respect what Martin Jol did for this club but still think the management change was the correct desicion. When, not if, we steady the ship I am convinced Ramos will take this club to new levels.