Match Thread: West Ham United vs Tottenham Hotspur

[Neil_Vaughan]

Talk about the game in here before, during and after.

[wayne wonder]

2-1 to the mighty spurs come on the boys!!

[Zinedinekilbane]

2-1 to the mighty spurs come on the boys!!

That'll do nicely !

[wayne wonder]

That'll do nicely !

Im confident we can go there and get a win if all our players come back fit

[irishspur]

this is where we really get our season back on track. No disrespect to wigan but they arent up to much. Im pretty confident of a narrow victory.

[shakey18]

A win, simple as.Some of their fans sites are saying that this can't be allowed to be the game that gets our season back on track,because they believe that the corresponding fixture last year got THEIR season back on track!. I'd take the same result!.

[irishspur]

what an up and down game that was. When tevez scored to make it two nil i couldent stick it any more and went out for a walk. When i came back ten minutes later it was 2-2! and the rest is history...

[berbzy 'G']

... Remember that West Ham vs Tottenham was game of the season last year... This game is bigger than the Arsenal match in my mind, There will be so many people I could laugh at if we win!!!

COME ON YOU SPURSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :mad:

[Spur]

... Remember that West Ham vs Tottenham was game of the season last year... This game is bigger than the Arsenal match in my mind, There will be so many people I could laugh at if we win!!!

COME ON YOU SPURSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :mad:

No game is bigger than Arsenal :mad:

[TURKISH]

A win this week will steer us in the right direction, it will give us confidence which we are slowly building up!

It will be one hell of a game and i just hope lady lucks on our side!

Berba is due a goal in the league!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:cool:

[choda]

If we win this Brum at home could be another easy win. That'd accumulate a few more points. I think we just need to take it game by game now. The panic is over, so I think we need to just focus on winning games and not the table until we are in the hunt again for euro spots.

Right now it's a bit demoralising to see the gap to 11th. I don't think they should look at it. Anybody else feel that way?

[choda]

I fancy we could win this. 2-0 actually, I feel good about it, I think we are finding our feet again.

[jrio]

Right now it's a bit demoralising to see the gap to 11th. I don't think they should look at it. Anybody else feel that way?
Yeah, a real gap between the two halves of the table. I'd support Ramos abandoning any attempt to win the CC tie against City and concentrating on the league and UEFA at this stage.

[berbzy 'G']

Who recons that we will keep a clean sheet, bearing in mind that we've t 3 in 4 games?

[peterc]

This must be Ramos's first real test, I reckon we will win 1-3.

[Spur]

Who recons that we will keep a clean sheet, bearing in mind that we've t 3 in 4 games?

Robinson dropped from the whole England squad will give him the motivation to get back to his best.

[MarlowSpurs]

Robinson dropped from the whole England squad will give him the motivation to get back to his best.

Especially seeing Carson **** up big time

[Spur]

Especially seeing Carson **** up big time

He'll be laughing.

He should refuse to play whilst McLaren is in charge.

[Keanoldinho]

I can't see Reading, Fulham, or Birmingham winning any of their games this week so a win for us and we should move up to 12th place. Then we can focus on closing the gap between the top halve of the table. This is our biggest game of the season so far a win here will do wonders for confidence and help us close the gap on the pikey wet spam ****s. A 2 goal win will give us a positive goal difference and that would be nice still a tough game and Ramos first real test. I think we'll win it 2-0 or 3-1 and get our season right back on track or at least I hope so.

[choda]

He'll be laughing.

He should refuse to play whilst McLaren is in charge.

That'd be childish mate. He was in awful form and is only getting back to somewhere near himself now. He got too much support for too long if you ask me. I think he would have turned around a lot quicker if he'd have been dropped ages ago.

[SurreySpur]

Looks like the Pikeys have got Ashton and Parker both fit and available for the game. Thats going to make things a bit trickier in my opinion.

I still fancy us to nick a win, i'm going for 2-3.

[Spur]

That'd be childish mate. He was in awful form and is only getting back to somewhere near himself now. He got too much support for too long if you ask me. I think he would have turned around a lot quicker if he'd have been dropped ages ago.

He was and he should have been dropped.

But the past few matches he's showed alot more about him and Steve McClaren rewards this by dropping him competely out of the squad!? What a load of bollocks.

[peterc]

He'll be laughing.

He should refuse to play whilst McLaren is in charge.

His refusal wouldn't have lasted that long.

[choda]

He was and he should have been dropped.

But the past few matches he's showed alot more about him and Steve McClaren rewards this by dropping him competely out of the squad!? What a load of bollocks.

That is true alright, the timing of it was baffling. Especially on a big night, to try out a young loanee in a huge game?

Was it right or wrong? I think we got our answer when he let one on my granny would have saved. Totally bottled it.

And then for the last goal when he dived later than a 70 year old Gordon Banks would have, even without his contacts. :o

Robbo, as shaky as he has been, is the keeper in the squad with the best temperament for a big night. James is the best keeper, but he's an absolute bottler.

I reckon he should have dropped Robbo ages ago for Green and see how he would have done. Then you probably would have had Robbo right back in form, and not starting to find form, or Green, who will have gained some experience and possibly have proven himself.

I've never fancied Carson much, I think Foster and Kirkland are much better. And Green has been in terrific form.

[Spur]

That is true alright, the timing of it was baffling. Especially on a big night, to try out a young loanee in a huge game?

Was it right or wrong? I think we got our answer when he let one on my granny would have saved. Totally bottled it.

And then for the last goal when he dived later than a 70 year old Gordon Banks would have, even without his contacts. :o

Robbo, as shaky as he has been, is the keeper in the squad with the best temperament for a big night. James is the best keeper, but he's an absolute bottler.

I reckon he should have dropped Robbo ages ago for Green and see how he would have done. Then you probably would have had Robbo right back in form, and not starting to find form, or Green, who will have gained some experience and possibly have proven himself.

I've never fancied Carson much, I think Foster and Kirkland are much better. And Green has been in terrific form.

He got far too much credit last year whilst going down with Charlton. Everyone was raving about him despite letting goals in. I didn't think there was that much too him at all. He was no less prone to making a mistake or two than any of the others were.

I remember the match against us he let two go through his legs and done nothing all game.

Why he was playing last night is beyond me. How a few weeks ago he was rated at 10mil by the papers even more so. There's clearly stupid people in charge of both the papers and the national side.

Well at least one's been sacked I suppose.

[berbzy 'G']

Bellamy, Ashton, Ljunberg and Parker are coming straight into the London Derby... But our players (Except Bale) have been building up for this match by playing for there country and on-target like Keane for Ireland and Berbatov for Bulgaria... thats some good news.. :)

[Keanoldinho]

Kaboul and Malbranque both doubtful so hopefully Rocha will be back in time Bale too

[olly27]

Bale could start..and if ramos starts him on the left wing, malbranque missing is no biggy...with Kaboul out probably I am assuming Chimbo will be moved into the centre with stalteri slotting in at right back - lets hope he's back on the score sheet! For me if Bale is fit and starts I see us winning...I am going for 1-2 COYS.

[spursmadnick06]

Some more of this would be good !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cUTdiIVCpY

[Chewy]

Teamtalk are saying Bale is back to full training and could start on sunday! Fingers crossed boys!

[\jackdaw]

This isnt going to be an easy game for us at all. A lot of people think we are back on a winning track but the oppostion we have played have really been crap. West Ham at the moment have a pretty good team and I think we will struggle here. Hopefully the boys will proove me wrong but I can see it being 2-0 to the pikeys.

[denis-cro]

Official web site says that "we´re in deep shit" with defenders. All injured except Dawson ?? So, what the alternatives are ? I didn´t like Chimbonda´s last performance as CB... It was disaster ...What about Dervitte ??

[irishspur]

Yeah i think so he looks like a good no-nonsense defender from what little ive seen of him. Oh and congrats on croatia's classy performance. They play a great style of footy.

[shakey18]

Daws and Chimbo in the middle, Stalts and Lee at full backs.Dervitte has only just come back after over a year out.I don't care how it comes, i just want a win.If Stalts can do what he did last year that would suffice!!.

[jrio]

Was it right or wrong? I think we got our answer when he let one on my granny would have saved. Totally bottled it.


Not as condemnatory as that comment may be perceived. I understand Granny choda is still quite lithe and athletic and, whilst she may have a little difficulty in getting down to low shots, certainly isn't likely to be beaten by a dolly shot from distance, even on a wet surface. :D

[berbzy 'G']

Bellamy's out... But Ashton's back :(

[Keanoldinho]

Bellamy's out... But Ashton's back :(


I'd rather Ashton played than Bellamy because Daws can keep up with him. Bellamys pace would be a big threat to our slow and cumbersome defence. A win here would be great and as long as Fulham don't beat Blackburn we'd move up to 12th place then we can focus on breaking into the top ten by Christmas time. Our defence is in tatters though so this one could go either way it's a hard game to call. Hopefully our lads can do the business coys.

[berbzy 'G']

I'd rather Ashton played than Bellamy because Daws can keep up with him. Bellamys pace would be a big threat to our slow and cumbersome defence. A win here would be great and as long as Fulham don't beat Blackburn we'd move up to 12th place then we can focus on breaking into the top ten by Christmas time. Our defence is in tatters though so this one could go either way it's a hard game to call. Hopefully our lads can do the business coys.

Bellamys like a machine... I'd rather have Ashton than him too... Glad Mark Noble ain't playing :)... Or is he now? :confused: :confused: :confused:

[mjbmedia]

id rather Fulham did beat Blackburn cos its the likes of Blackburn that we have to truly close the gap to , which is sad to say :(

[berbzy 'G']

IT'S GETTING CLOSER!!!!!!!!!!! :confused:

[Milney yid]

Does anyone else share my deep loathing of the Hammers? I'm not sure what it is about them, but I find myself really REALLY wanting to beat them whenever we play. Last season I got more satisfaction out of beating them in the last minute than beating Chelsea.

[SCIFIN17YID]

How is everyone watching this game streaming if so links please thanks.

LOL DUH I AM WITH STUPID ! it's on Sky Sports 1 my bad people.

[SurreySpur]

Im not at home this weekend and dont have access to sky. does anyone have a link to streaming?

[SurreySpur]

****ing hell Kaboul

[SCIFIN17YID]

Omfg no Penalty bullshit ! ****ing cheat!

Mike Riley, Get some ****ing glass's you **** !

[SCIFIN17YID]

Im not at home this weekend and dont have access to sky. does anyone have a link to streaming?

Tvants
tvants://www.p2psports.cn/tvants/?k=c628ca43984000a9e7c019ba77fb1bd3

Sopcast

Link#1

sop://202.190.75.149:3912/1007


Link#2

sop://202.190.75.149:3912/1009


Enjoy.

[denis-cro]

Kaboul is a disaster. Well, I don´t think that we´re performing so bad, but Kaboul´ s stupid error cost us. I hope Ramos can build up our self-confidence, cause Pikey´s are shitty today. I still think that we can manage to take something from this match.

Oh Ledley, when You´ ll be fit ???:(

[SurreySpur]

That was shit steed....what a miss.

[SurreySpur]

Get in Dawson!!!!!

Great delivery from JJ

[SurreySpur]

For **** sake Jermain.

Jammy ****ing pikeys

[denis-cro]

How the **** we can be so unlucky ??? ****, ****, **** !!!!!!!!!!!! Defoe , You stupid prick !!!

[denis-cro]

Unbelivable !!!! I can´t belive that we manage to miss a 90 min penalty ??? We should have won this... Defoe should never ever take a penalty, ****ing prick !!!

[peterc]

Just confirms what Ihave always thought of Defoe, overated. Can't even score a penalty.:mad:

[Ioang]

What are you on about, defoe's a great penalty taker! He's def 2nd choice and Ramos thought Keane was surplas to requirements, simple as that. Unlucky against a great keeper - and talking about keepers, sounds like Robbo's back to his best. Something to look forward to, I imagine the clean sheets at home will start coming back now.

[Sparkystav]

Defoe was unlucky thats all, its Bent that shit what a waste of money.

Stav

[denis-cro]

Defoe and Bent were invisible, but all credits to other players. I´ m satisfied with performance, especially cause we played 40 minutes with 3 defenders, and with 3 strikers, cause we never played like that, and vs West ham away it was a big challenge....Our main problem at the moment is that we´re not clinical, cause we should be far more clinical... Malbranque, how the **** could you miss that 250 % chance.... :mad:
Chimbonda battled like a lion, especially when switched to CB. Nice to see Bale back in action. He was doing very well down the left flank... Robinson was great too...finally...

[berbzy 'G']

West ham were so lucky, we should of absolutely battered them... I knew as soon as Defoe took the penalty that Green would save it... It's just our ****ing luck! and theres!

Now if we can produce all those chances at Upton Park... **** knows what we could do to them at WHL

[Ginola's Son]

Bitterly disappointed at Defoe's miss, but Rob Green is the best English keeper in the country and I think he'd have never let in any kind of penalty today. It was well taken and a good save.

I'm just pleased that we were in a position to win the game after the first half in which Mike Riley improved his **** credentials by not giving us the obvious penalty.

Lovely goal by Dawson, just like the Chelsea game.

Gareth Bale back and immediately our general game-play improves mightily. We seem a little bit tougher and our defending, except for Kaboul's horror show, was decent I thought, Chimbo was magnificent as an emergency centre-back, he seems to take that role seriously so why not play him there.

West Ham seemed determined today so I thought a point is good, even though clearly, we should have won.

Only down side for me was Berbatov...he still seems to not care.

[JM_]

Unbelivable !!!! I can´t belive that we manage to miss a 90 min penalty ??? We should have won this... Defoe should never ever take a penalty, ****ing prick !!!

Chill mate! Take a look at this link http://www.prozac.com/index.jsp, might help you...

Looking back at the game it's a fair resault in my mind. None of the situations were really a penalty, so I feel justice was made with the save by Green. Although it would have been nice to get those 2 bonus points...

Many positives in the game, with Ramos' hardball tactics one of them. This shows he's not affraid to through the kitchen sink at the opposition in an early stage of the game if required.

And nice to see Robbo having a great game! Zokora was the other big player today. And credit to Jenas, he had another decent game.

The future looks bright boys! COYS!

[Ginola's Son]

How were neither penaltys? They were BOTH penaltys.

[JM_]

How were neither penaltys? They were BOTH penaltys.

Robbie dived as he knew he wouldn't get the goal. And the second one was a "normal" match situation. Was amazed when the ref gave it. That's how I see it anyway

[SurreySpur]

Its good to see Robbo reacting so well to being dropped by Englangd in Midweek. The two saves from ashtons efforts were excellent and he seemed to command his area with much more authority.

Chimbo, Zokora, Steed and Bale all got through a lot of work but the outfield player that stood out was JJ, he covered a lot of ground and got through so much work in midfield both attacking and defending. His delivery for the Goal was excellent not to mention clearing off his own line, i dont praise JJ very much but i feel its warranted today.

Berba and Lennon seemed to try in small patches but Jermain Defoe and Darren Bent were largely annonymous.

[Ginola's Son]

Jenas's attitude since the new boss has arrived has been excellent. He was brilliant today. More of that please son

As for the person who thought Keane dived...what are you on?

[TURKISH]

People make me ****ing laugh slagging off defoe just because he missed as penalty, ****ing digusting from fans on here. If robbie keane would of missed everyone on here would of said unlucky, but as soon as defoe miss ****ing his shit, he should never take penaltys.

****ing hypocrites as he ****ing scored last time against west ham with a penalty. He has only missed two penaltys for spurs, keane has missed one. And green a good ****ing goalie, cant people just give the keeper the benefit of the doubt and say great save?

Good away result and a massive shout out to jj for a great perfromance. We got a few games were we can go on a winning run now!

[Jol's Yid Army]

People make me ****ing laugh slagging off defoe just because he missed as penalty, ****ing digusting from fans on here. If robbie keane would of missed everyone on here would of said unlucky, but as soon as defoe miss ****ing his shit, he should never take penaltys.

****ing hypocrites as he ****ing scored last time against west ham with a penalty. He has only missed two penaltys for spurs, keane has missed one. And green a good ****ing goalie, cant people just give the keeper the benefit of the doubt and say great save?

Good away result and a massive shout out to jj for a great perfromance. We got a few games were we can go on a winning run now!


Totally agree with ya

[LifeTimeYido]

Just confirms what Ihave always thought of Defoe, overated. Can't even score a penalty.:mad:

There wasnt a lot wrong with the penalty - it was a very good save.

[Defoe8]

1 point away from home in a London derby, with half our defense injured - well done boys :D

Defoe should have put that penalty away but it wasn't to be. Also Robbo played very well 2day, i haven't seen him play this well for a long time and JJ had a decent game.

Berba was poor, he kept dropping so deep, his first touch was below par and his poor attitude showed again today, and what a stupid mistake by Kaboul, he handed them their goal on plate.

If we pick up 3 points against Birmingham, then it will have been 2 good back to back weekends for us!

[Spur]

Just confirms what Ihave always thought of Defoe, overated. Can't even score a penalty.:mad:

I don't think he's ever missed one. I certainly can't remember one other than today.

I said the same to my season ticket going West Ham mate and he said the same, he can't think of a penalty Defoe has missed.

I'm sure he has missed a couple, but his success rate from the spot is excellent. We are very blessed to have Defoe and Keane as bot will rarely miss.

Decent result today, nothing more nothing less.

One thing with Ramos is if you are playing badly you WILL come off. Great to see, although I was a little confused as to the whole set-up after Kaboul came off :confused:

Jenas played another good game, I wouldn't go so far as to say he was man of the match as some are saying, he had a good game though.

One slight problem still obvious is the large gap inbetween the defence and midfield though.

[peterc]

[QUOTE=TURKISH;68515]People make me ****ing laugh slagging off defoe just because he missed as penalty, ****ing digusting from fans on here. If robbie keane would of missed everyone on here would of said unlucky, but as soon as defoe miss ****ing his shit, he should never take penaltys.

****ing hypocrites as he ****ing scored last time against west ham with a penalty. He has only missed two penaltys for spurs, keane has missed one. And green a good ****ing goalie, cant people just give the keeper the benefit of the doubt and say great save?

I never really rated Defoe and I always have said that he is overated, my opinion.

[peterc]

I don't think he's ever missed one. I certainly can't remember one other than today.

I said the same to my season ticket going West Ham mate and he said the same, he can't think of a penalty Defoe has missed.

I'm sure he has missed a couple, but his success rate from the spot is excellent. We are very blessed to have Defoe and Keane as bot will rarely miss.

Decent result today, nothing more nothing less.

One thing with Ramos is if you are playing badly you WILL come off. Great to see, although I was a little confused as to the whole set-up after Kaboul came off :confused:

Jenas played another good game, I wouldn't go so far as to say he was man of the match as some are saying, he had a good game though.

One slight problem still obvious is the large gap inbetween the defence and midfield though.

Spur, I don't really rate Defoe, I have always thought that he is overated, an opinion that I don't see any reason for changing.

[Spur]

Spur, I don't really rate Defoe, I have always thought that he is overated, an opinion that I don't see any reason for changing.

I stand corrected anyway, he has missed 3 in Spurs colours.

[sundancer]

Anyone can miss a penalty, but credit should go to Green for a good save.

[choda]

It was a poor penalty though. It as a nervous halfway house job. He should've just whacked it either side, Defoe hasn't got the guile to be cute.

He scores when he takes them with more a more decisive strike.

Berba was a pen taker in Germany. I think he should deputise to Keano when he's not on the pitch. I didn't feel good about Defoe stepping up, and he even looked nervous.

[Keanoldinho]

ffs just in and read the match report, how fecking unlucky were we and Defoe ffs son put the ball in the net, missing a 90th minute peno is unacceptable I don't give a feck if Buffon or Cech is in the goal in a situation like that you MUST score no excuse just bury it in the top corner like Keano woulda done ffs

[fluke]

Yeah I'm bummed for not getting the three points today.

But I'm happy because the boys looked up for it. All of them with the exception of Kaboul seem to have a new found swagger. It's early days but I'm liking what I see. Haven't been able to say that in a while.

There was a lot less shouting at each other, negative gestures and body language which is also a positive sign. Enegy levels seemed higher towards the end of the game IMO. Really liked the fact that Kaboul was made to sit on the bench as he pouted off down the tunnel.

Love that Lennon always plays on the right under Ramos. He's 30% more effective in his natural position.

I'm not an optimist when it comes to Spurs, I've supported them for too long, But I'm actually looking forward to 2008.

[denis-cro]

I don't think he's ever missed one. I certainly can't remember one other than today.

I said the same to my season ticket going West Ham mate and he said the same, he can't think of a penalty Defoe has missed.



I remember he missed a penalty vs Aston Villa 2 seasons ago at Villa Park. It was 1-1, and Keane scored that fabulous strike after entering from the bench.

[berbzy 'G']

Is anyone gonna suffer watching match-of-the-day tonight...

[spursmadnick06]

Defoe hit the penalty in the exact same spot that he hit to score against Green last season. I don't know why but i just had a feeling he wouldn't score. It was almost like a dream situation for him, a chance to score a injury team winner against the club that hate him, he bottled it.

[deadleyledley]

it was such a shit penalty. it wasnt in the corner
easy for green to save. should have had a plane in the first half though.
why didnt berby take the pen? he had a good trackrecord with bayer lev

[Keanoldinho]

Defoe hit the penalty in the exact same spot that he hit to score against Green last season. I don't know why but i just had a feeling he wouldn't score. It was almost like a dream situation for him, a chance to score a injury team winner against the club that hate him, he bottled it.


exactly he bottled it BIG time. Defoe has a rocket shot, for the life of me I can't figure out why he didn't just blast it into the top corner. The top corners are the only place a keeper can't get to with penalty, the good ones can sometimes get down low in the bottom corners like Green did today. All you have to do is get it on target right in the top corner and no keeper in the world can save it like the one Keano scored against the gooners the season before last unstoppable.

I'm well pissed off with the dropped points but on the plus side of things I think Ramos passed his toughest tested to date with flying colors. His tactical changes in the 2nd half were class pulling off Kaboul and playing a 343 with Daws, Chimbo, and Zoko at the back away from home too. He's definately not afraid to make the necessary changes and decision when required. On another day if Kaboul didn't gift them a goal, Defoe didn't gift them 2 points and the ref wasn't a prat we coulda won this game 3-0. Ramos still undefeated roll on Thursday COYS.

[Chewy]

Some people will probably disagree with me when i say this but i think apart from kaboul - berbatov was our worst player on the pitch. He didn't seem to want to let anybody else play - he tried to take everybody on himself. His timing was completely off and his little flick ons were piss poor.

There was a moment when we were attacking and it was 3 on 1 against their last defender...Keane and Lennon had acres of space but by the time he tried to play keane on their last defender was all over him. His flick ons were just inaccurate but not because he was putting too much or too little into it but because he wasn't looking at where keano was and everytime their defenders got it.

There was also times when we were on the counter attack when he slowed down the play at the edge of the box and gave west ham time to get back.

Defoe should of came on for berbatov - not keane who is our best player in my opinion. I'm hoping it was an 'off' game for him but if he continues to play like he did today - i wouldn't mind seeing the back off him in january.

[singapore spur]

a competant display and up until we gifted them a goal i thought we looked very comfortable , but another defensive error seemed to suck the confidence out of us a bit .
everyone looks as though they are playing for their places which is good , our fitness levels seem higher , along with some good tactical changes and a positive attitude are the noticable differences to under jol , more and more impressed by ramos .
gutted that defoe missed the pen obviously but i think a draw was a fair result

[mjbmedia]

taking it game for game, dont see what this fitness issue is all about.

V W Ham last season we scored two goals in the last few minutes and didnt give a chance at all in the last 4 minutes. This season we didnt score two goals in the last few minutes (ok we could have got one) and we gave chances in the last 4 minutes.

V Villa earlier this season we came back late on ,didnt see any sign of unfitness there.

Dont get me wrong Ramos will improve their fitness but i dont think theres much proof that it was bad anyway.

Yesterday there were still individual defensive errors, Kaboul twice and Dawson once the most noticeable but there were others too, only one led to a goal , and there was big space between the attack and midfield this time more than the defence and midfield meaning that often our attacks either broke down too easily or were slowed up considerably.

I feel we'd be better going with pairings of either Defoe or Bent paired with either Keane or Berbs, ie one with some speed, one with some guile. and id still prefer Lee and Bale down the left , maybe that will be so at home, but id like it away too . (benefit of the doubt = Lee UK-Nth Korea and back??? =knackered)

[fluke]

taking it game for game, dont see what this fitness issue is all about.

V W Ham last season we scored two goals in the last few minutes and didnt give a chance at all in the last 4 minutes. This season we didnt score two goals in the last few minutes (ok we could have got one) and we gave chances in the last 4 minutes.




Don't think there's anyway to measure it really. We have given away many games at the death which may have some correlation to fitness. Saltieri who scored the winner against W Ham last year I think was a sub and he was the only player who kept his run going to knock in a rebound. Lennon on the other hand gave up on the run. All speculative really though. Could drive ourselves barmy trying to figure it out. Time will tell.

[choda]

taking it game for game, dont see what this fitness issue is all about.

V W Ham last season we scored two goals in the last few minutes and didnt give a chance at all in the last 4 minutes. This season we didnt score two goals in the last few minutes (ok we could have got one) and we gave chances in the last 4 minutes.

V Villa earlier this season we came back late on ,didnt see any sign of unfitness there.

Dont get me wrong Ramos will improve their fitness but i dont think theres much proof that it was bad anyway.

Yesterday there were still individual defensive errors, Kaboul twice and Dawson once the most noticeable but there were others too, only one led to a goal , and there was big space between the attack and midfield this time more than the defence and midfield meaning that often our attacks either broke down too easily or were slowed up considerably.

I feel we'd be better going with pairings of either Defoe or Bent paired with either Keane or Berbs, ie one with some speed, one with some guile. and id still prefer Lee and Bale down the left , maybe that will be so at home, but id like it away too . (benefit of the doubt = Lee UK-Nth Korea and back??? =knackered)

I think there is if you look at the patterns. If a team is tired they start to give the ball away cheaply, doesn't close the space, and starts to drop off. Remember also how often we came out flying at the start and after half time only to wither and die later. How many times did we see that under Jol?

You gave two examples there. Do you want somebody to compile the list of goals against? And against Villa we were shocking and blessed to get a 4-4. It was the most listless, but successful fightback I've ever seen. I was depressed after the game, because it boded so badly for the future, 3 goal turn around or not.

If you looked at the overall percentages under Jol we were shocking towards the end of either half. I remember seeing it somewhere.

I think it was a combination of bad tactics, coaching and poor fitness. I thought we tired yesterday too, towards the end. They might not be fully fit for a while.

I thought we played really well yesterday though. I don't know how we didn't win. A combination of Kaboul, the Ref and Defoe I suppose.

[choda]

It's clear Ramos is ****ing class. The set pieces are miles better. The organisation is miles better. The tactics and changes are miles better. The passing is far better. The work rate is far better. The fitness is better. And he's getting the most out of some talented players that were not doing it. Plus, no unhelpful favouritism.

I REALLY believe this man is going to turn us into a top side, competitive with the big wigs again (as awakening the sleeping giant of the 60's and 70's). I think we will compete for the prizes and cl places with anyone.

Anyway, back to the present.

The change in Jenas is giving me cause for sheer delight. That's THREE good games out of FIVE under Ramos. He was good again yesterday. Seems to me the central mids needed to be given a chance to being with. Now they play in a coherent team with the units nice and tight with players a good distance apart. It gives them a chance to defend as a team and not covering gaps everywhere. It also means they can pass it much better and quicker with options always available.

The amount of times we won it back quickly off West Ham was excellent. I can't remember EVER seeing a spurs side doing that. It was great. I thought we trounced them to be honest. Don't know how we didn't win.

And Robbo is suddenly looking good again now that they don't get all day to line-up howisters to fly past him. He was fantastic yesterday aside from one free kick he got when he actually dropped the ball. He is quickly getting his confidence and technique back. :D

Kaboul is a problem though, but at least Ramos sees that. He looks very talented, but too young and inexperienced for the prem. I think we should play somebody else there, even Chimbo, until King is back and buy a top experienced cb in January.

I said let's wait until the dust settles with good tactics before we make definitive judgments on what we need. I think it's becoming clear to everyone what we need now. We need a top experienced cb, a left winger and probably a cm. Although as I've said cm has improved drastically.

Things that have cleared up so far: Robbo, Dawsen, Chimbo, Jenas, Berba.

By the way I don't know why people were saying Berba played badly. :confused: I thought he was unreal. The touches were majestic. I thought he and Keane were world class yesterday. The touches were just sublime. Although I thought Berba was a little deep at times. Ramos seems to want Keane on the shoulder and Berba to do most of the link up, which is fair enough. Keane is better than Berba at going behind.

By the way, MJB I don't think pace is really required with them. They are so good technically and Keane is not slow and his quick brain means he will go behind very often if played up as Ramos is doing. Think Inzaghi at Milan, not any quicker than Keane these days, but goes in behind all day because his movement is so good. And you won't find anyone with better movement than Keano.

I don't know how Defoe can get beyond those two and even Bent. I reckon he will be off in January. I hope we can squeeze 12 million out of Pompey, City or somebody like that.

Anyway, I thought we were robbed yestersay, by numerous things. Kaboul having a mare, the Ref all day (and I rarely complain about bad luck), and then the pen miss at the end.

I predict 7th place and a REAL go at the cups. This guys the shit.

[Ginola's Son]

I said to my GF yesterday that Ramos looks very dashing, quite rare for a prem manager, he looks classy, lets hope he IS classy. These draws have to become wins and fast. 12 points in december is unnaceptable.

[MiloMinderbinder]

[QUOTE=choda;68567]=Things that have cleared up so far: Robbo, Dawsen, Chimbo, Jenas, Berba.

By the way I don't know why people were saying Berba played badly. :confused: I thought he was unreal. The touches were majestic. I thought he and Keane were world class yesterday. The touches were just sublime. Although I thought Berba was a little deep at times. He seems to want Keane on the shoulder and Berba to do most of the link up, which is fair enough. Keane is better than Berba at going behind.

By the way, MJB I don't think pace is really required with them. They are so good technically and Keane is not slow and his quick brain means he will go behind very often if played up as Ramos is doing. Think Inzaghi at Milan, not any quicker than Keane these days, but goes in behind all day because his movement is so good. And you won't find anyone with better movement than Keano.
QUOTE]

Ramos has swapped Keane and Berbatov around, he likes to have the front runner to stretch the defense to allow space in front of them when we're in possesion thus creating room for midfield runners and behind them for the counter when they have the ball. Keane has a little more pace than Berba and as you say his movement off the ball is harder to check, but I think you'll see all four stirkers given a chance in both roles, Bent is obviously suited to being the forward runner of the formation but does he have the guile to bring others in the way Ramos wants?

You left one player off your list of improvments; Steeeeed, starting to show why he's been one of my favourite players in England for 5 years.

[choda]

I said to my GF yesterday that Ramos looks very dashing, quite rare for a prem manager, he looks classy, lets hope he IS classy. These draws have to become wins and fast. 12 points in december is unnaceptable.

He's seems like a man with personal magnetism. One of those people who ARE success.

I'm not joking when I say this, but he looks to be the manager I like the most anywhere. I loved Sevilla and he seems to have everything in his teams that I want to see.

The job has only begun at spurs, but I started a thread a few weeks back of things I wanted to see and if you tick that list you will find he has visibly improved those things and I'm sure will continue to progress.

The soundbites of things he says have all impressed me too. Sounds like man who knows exactly what he is doing.

[choda]

Ramos has swapped Keane and Berbatov around, he likes to have the front runner to stretch the defense to allow space in front of them when we're in possesion thus creating room for midfield runners and behind them for the counter when they have the ball. Keane has a little more pace than Berba and as you say his movement off the ball is harder to check, but I think you'll see all four stirkers given a chance in both roles, Bent is obviously suited to being the forward runner of the formation but does he have the guile to bring others in the way Ramos wants?

You left one player off your list of improvments; Steeeeed, starting to show why he's been one of my favourite players in England for 5 years.

That's true, but he had another iffy game on the left yesterday. He only played okay when brought inside. I'm not sure there is real end product at a big side with Steed, even in the centre. He looks to me like he's a bit brainless and it thought he was a better shooter.

[TURKISH]

He's seems like a man with personal magnetism. One of those people who ARE success.

I'm not joking when I say this, but he looks to be the manager I like the most anywhere. I loved Sevilla and he seems to have everything I want to see in his teams.

The job has only begun at spurs, but I started a thread a few weeks back of things I wanted to see and if you tick that list you will find he has visibly improved those things and I'm sure will continue to progress.

The soundbites of things he says have all impressed me too. Sounds like man who knows exactly what he is doing.

One very classy manager and im very happy with gus poyet too i think they make a good couple..........:confused:

Just having ramos in charge gives me big confidence for the furture. I really do believe we could win the uefa cup this year!

[mjbmedia]

By the way, MJB I don't think pace is really required with them. They are so good technically and Keane is not slow and his quick brain means he will go behind very often if played up as Ramos is doing. Think Inzaghi at Milan, not any quicker than Keane these days, but goes in behind all day because his movement is so good. And you won't find anyone with better movement than Keano.

i sort of agree, i was thinking more when we break we are SOOO slow it would be good to have a balance of speed (Bent/Defoe) with class (Berbs/Keane)
that way whether its a quick break or a slower build up we can cause problems, as of yesterday it was only the slow stuff that we could do .
im not saying Berbs or Keane need more pace themselves to be good , theyre already great.

[choda]

i sort of agree, i was thinking more when we break we are SOOO slow it would be good to have a balance of speed (Bent/Defoe) with class (Berbs/Keane)
that way whether its a quick break or a slower build up we can cause problems, as of yesterday it was only the slow stuff that we could do .
im not saying Berbs or Keane need more pace themselves to be good , theyre already great.

Yea, I see what you are saying, but it's hard to have EVERYTHING. Overall I think Keane and Berbs definitely give us the most effectiveness, and as you say, they aren't slow either, just not pacey like Defoe or very pacey like Bent.

I think the thing we really need now (going forward) is some pace on the left wing. I'd play Bale until we buy a left winger or play Taara. He was the main midfield threat I thought and that was even when he was at left back! He was way more dangerous than Mal in front of him. Some ****ing player that kid.

I think with very quick wingers on either side, Berba's ability to use his touch and play a pass (ala Bergkamp), Jenas in the side (even the Zok), and Keano's brain to make the right run we will be a dangerous team on the break. Last twenty Bent is certain to feature a lot too, when teams are tiring. It's still early days remember. Ramos seems to be mainly working on organisation and solidifying things at present.

[choda]

I must say I'm a big fan of Darren Bent too though. He hasn't really had a chance to show what he can do for Spurs yet.

[jrio]

By the way I don't know why people were saying Berba played badly. :confused: I thought he was unreal. The touches were majestic. I thought he and Keane were world class yesterday. The touches were just sublime.
:eek:

I don't know how Defoe can get beyond those two and even Bent. I reckon he will be off in January. I hope we can squeeze 12 million out of Pompey, City or somebody like that.

It won't be more than 10, in light of his contract running down.

[Milney yid]

I have to say overall i was VERY happy with the performance yesterday. Ramos has seemingly changed a lot of things, and minus Kaboul (who was the one player I was disappointed with yesterday) the defence are playing 5 times better than they have done so far this season. Jenas and Robinson have been transformed, the passion is there and the all round general performance was one of the best of the season in my eyes, against what is, I hate to say, a pretty good West Ham team who were definately up for beating us.

[Gino Ginelli]

Well, we can lament the penalty that wasn't given, but in the end we had the opportunities to bury the Hammers yesterday, and we fluffed it. Never mind Defoe's penalty miss (I'd have given it to JJ anyway, the way he's playing at the moment) there were great opportunities for Steed, Lennon and Berbatov. Berba's especially, after he'd brought it down so well on the far side of the 6 yard box, really should have been volleyed home, instead of into the midst of the baying Spammers.

Defence is still shocking, Kaboul the obvious villain. He's not short of confidence and ability, but he needs to sharpen up fast. That was a horrendous error he made, with Daws having no chance to get back in time.

But overall it was a little more heartening from some, dissapointing again from others. JJ continues to impress me this season, with Bale's return more than welcome; his touch, vision and delivery having been sorely missed. Steed get's better with each game under Ramos, and Lennon is definately finding his focus again.

Keane is always good for me, but Berba had another apathetic display. Bent is deserving a start over him for me, who has been much more clinical of late. Defoe always looks lively, and i'll always like him, but he really needed to be putting that pen away. Shame.

Robbo seemed all the better for not having been a part of last wednesday's fiasco. Plenty of good saves from him yesterday.

We should have won that, we looked better than west ham. But I suppose steady away at the moment is better than floundering in the shallows.

[choda]

Well, we can lament the penalty that wasn't given, but in the end we had the opportunities to bury the Hammers yesterday, and we fluffed it. Never mind Defoe's penalty miss (I'd have given it to JJ anyway, the way he's playing at the moment) there were great opportunities for Steed, Lennon and Berbatov. Berba's especially, after he'd brought it down so well on the far side of the 6 yard box, really should have been volleyed home, instead of into the midst of the baying Spammers.

Defence is still shocking, Kaboul the obvious villain. He's not short of confidence and ability, but he needs to sharpen up fast. That was a horrendous error he made, with Daws having no chance to get back in time.

But overall it was a little more heartening from some, dissapointing again from others. JJ continues to impress me this season, with Bale's return more than welcome; his touch, vision and delivery having been sorely missed. Steed get's better with each game under Ramos, and Lennon is definately finding his focus again.

Keane is always good for me, but Berba had another apathetic display. Bent is deserving a start over him for me, who has been much more clinical of late. Defoe always looks lively, and i'll always like him, but he really needed to be putting that pen away. Shame.

Robbo seemed all the better for not having been a part of last wednesday's fiasco. Plenty of good saves from him yesterday.

We should have won that, we looked better than west ham. But I suppose steady away at the moment is better than floundering in the shallows.

Nah, I don't agree with that. It think he's at it again. I thought he was back to his best yesterday. Stay tuned for goals and assists galore.

And I think your appraisal of the performance was harsh. West Ham are good at home and we were very unlucky not to win. It happens. But I thought it was like one of the those days that top sides get an odd time rather than yet another spurs ****-up kind of day.

[choda]

:eek:

It won't be more than 10, in light of his contract running down.

Did you not think some of the touches they were doing were an absolute droolfest?

I was positively delirious to be associated with such sublimity.

And Keano was robbed of yet another wonderful goal.

[Spur]

:eek:

Have to agree.

[choda]

Have to agree.

Strange, my dad was near coming in his pants. :confused:

I was loving Bale too. What a player.

[Spur]

Strange, my dad was near coming in his pants. :confused:

I was loving Bale too. What a player.

Bale was excellent.

But Keano was a bit of a no show for me.

[choda]

Bale was excellent.

But Keano was a bit of a no show for me.

You would say that. :p

People often say that about strikers, especially ones playing on the shoulder, but if you ask me if a striker is showing quality touches and good movement he is doing his job. He just hasn't had the opportunities, not his fault. The opportunity he got it was going to be world class goal, but he was totally robbed.

[dommo]

I also thought Keano was poor on Sunday. Maybe it's because he has set such high standards this season that we expect a bit of magic every game, but usually when Robbie isn't having the greaatest of games he's always looking for and wanting the ball. Just seemed to be hiding on sunday for me

[Ginola's Son]

One thing about Keane though, while his game may not always be with him, the effort level is always sky high. He is a true spur in that sense, I would never be without him.

[Spur]

One thing about Keane though, while his game may not always be with him, the effort level is always sky high. He is a true spur in that sense, I would never be without him.

No question.

He's a yid through and through. Look at when SBN died, and Keane scored. Look at his celebration. There was untold heart in that.

[Welsh Spur]

No question.

He's a yid through and through. Look at when SBN died, and Keane scored. Look at his celebration. There was untold heart in that.

Got a link for my perusal?

[Spur]

**** knows that was ages ago.

I can tell you he did he guns with gusto. He may have even patted the crest for added measure.

I'll take a look for you you lazy bastard.

[choda]

I also thought Keano was poor on Sunday. Maybe it's because he has set such high standards this season that we expect a bit of magic every game, but usually when Robbie isn't having the greaatest of games he's always looking for and wanting the ball. Just seemed to be hiding on sunday for me

He was asked to play further up and stretch the hammer's defence, bear that in mind. You can be sure he was doing something constructive anyway, he wouldn't be Keano if he wasn't.

Him playing further up and causing his usual trouble with his movement was probably the reason West Ham were heemed in and looked like the away side.

The pikeys were well organised and they had an excellent work rate, so we didn't get many opportunites, even though we fairly battered them in midfield. Keane only had one opportunity of note, which he had been looking for all day. And he was robbed of a great goal first by Green and then by the ref who should have given a penalty and a red card.

The possession we had and the control in midfield bodes really well though. I thought we looked like a top side and just on the day everything went against us. I think 90% of the time that game would have given us a win.

And that was away to a tier 2 side. I like those kind of odds over a season. I think we will recover to 7th, despite the huge gap, and have a great chance of winning a cup because I think we have a 50/50 or so chance against other big teams now.

[Welsh Spur]

**** knows that was ages ago.

I can tell you he did he guns with gusto. He may have even patted the crest for added measure.

I'll take a look for you you lazy bastard.

The late great Bill Nick passed on 23 Oct 2004. We had a home match v Bolton that night, which we lost 2-1, Keane scoring our goal and the one I presume you are on about. I can't find a video tho.

[Spur]

The late great Bill Nick passed on 23 Oct 2004. We had a home match v Bolton that night, which we lost 2-1, Keane scoring our goal and the one I presume you are on about. I can't find a video tho.

Methinks it will be tough to find.

Copyright n'all that.