Match Thread: Tottenahm Hotspur vs Wigan Athletic

[Neil_Vaughan]

Talk about the game in here before, during and after.

[Spur]

Last time we played Wigan Jermaine Jenas played for Tottenham Hotspur for one of only a few times in his life.

Perhaps he will again. It would fit in with the saying once in a blue moon too.

JJ to score :eek: :confused: ;) :D

Ok then, a win. And a clean sheet. It's Wigan ffs. They don't even have a manager.

What could possibly go wrong?

[mjbmedia]

yeh we should win this well. 3-0 .
Reckon Bent and Defoe will start up top,
JJ Zokora Mal and Lennon ,Tho id like Boateng in there instead of Zokora.
Lee Kaboul CHimbo and Stalts.

Dawson was caught out loads again on Thursday and needs more work.

the only danger is the Wigan players being 'free' for one game until the new boss comes in

[berbzy 'G']

This will be an ideal game to get our goal difference to 0 or 1...

[wayne wonder]

2-1 victory I say with Steed and Bent getting the goals and Marcus Bent getting a deflected goal off Dawson:p

!!! I sky + the game last night and its sad to say i actually just fast forwarded to the goals then switched the game off because it was the biggest pule of crap.

[Keanoldinho]

We're going to win the next 10 EPL games in a row starting with Wigan 3-0 or at least I hope so:confused:

[wayne wonder]

As long as we win i really couldn't give amonkey's wet ass if we play well or not!!

[Gino Ginelli]

Smash 'em, destroy 'em! I want to see us absolutley rip them apart! Robbie, Berba, Steed and Boateng to all score!

This is it lads, we need to beat these teams to stand any chance.

[olly27]

Ok who will start up front...I hope Keano is starting...he's in such good form...start him Ramos please..

[Spurs 4 Life!]

Come On You Spurs

Come on Juande lead us to win another win !

[TURKISH]

3.0 Im saying and i fancy Zokora to get a lucky goal!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I just want a result and hopefully a clean sheet!

[berbzy 'G']

woooot, i'm going to this match :)

[RuFuS]

I just wanna win :D

[TURKISH]

woooot, i'm going to this match :)

Same here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :cool:

[spurs61]

For once, even I can be nothing but (relativley) positive about this match. There can be no excuses for not winning this game and winning it in style. We are superior in every department other than goal keeper. At any other juncture I'd have said this was a good game to rest our more over worked players (not that any of them have worked this season, Robbie aside) but give our precarious position in the league we must maximise every opportunity we get to rise above the table. I'd like to think that Ramos and Gus will aim to use the game to improve our goal difference.

3-1 to us with Keane, Berbatov and Steed weighing in with one each. Melchiot to be sent off as well.

[Spur]

Keane, Boateng, Chimbonda right back and another 8 players to starts.

Easy win. Obviously we'll make a meal of it though!

[peterc]

woooot, i'm going to this match :)

Same here, COYS

[irishspur]

4-0 win keane 2 bent and malbranque.

[berbzy 'G']

Same here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :cool:


wheres ur seats or stands TURKISH and peterc

[TURKISH]

wheres ur seats or stands TURKISH and peterc

Shelf berbs where are you sitting??? :cool:

[berbzy 'G']

Shelf berbs where are you sitting??? :cool:

we payed extra to sit in disabled south stand... apparently there brilliant seats and a good view behind the goal... :)

[peterc]

wheres ur seats or stands TURKISH and peterc

Block 23 berbs.

[choda]

We HAVE to win this. Wigan are both shit AND demoralised. They've lost six in a row and have no coach now either. I was worried they'd appoint somebody this week and have a honeymoon effort against us.

I think this will be the game where the corner can be turned. A win, a good win, 4-0 and another clean sheet would be most welcome and I think it is on the cards.

To be honest I don't understand why there is still so much doom and gloom. The future looks bright to me. There have been many small tactical and coaching changes that are improving us and will bear fruit over time as things develop.

We need to just get results to get our season back on track and boost confidence and morale. We are doing that. Ramos is doing very well and he will continue to work on what needs improvement.

[berbzy 'G']

This is the line up I'd like to see:

Robinson

Chimbonda Dawson Stalteri Lee

Lennon KPB Zokora Malbranque

Berbatov Keane (c)

Subs: Cerny, Kaboul, Taarabt, Jenas, Defoe, Bent

:)

[choda]

Is Bale still up the Damien Duff?

Does 'up the Duff' mean '****ed because you're pregnant' or just '****ed', but has become known as the term for '****ed... because of being knocked up.'

For example, 'up the swanny' means your ****ed, but has nothing to do with insemination. And it is often capped with 'without a paddle', which seems to suggest that a 'swanny' is a stream of some sort. I bet it's a stream of shit, like a sewer or a rectum, since there's another saying called 'up shit's creek without a paddle.'

Or else 'a swanny' is a vagina as there just seems to be a lot of overlap here with people loving to say things to do with ****ing, fornication, fingering, sexual fluid or an kind of sexual act or excretion.

So a 'swanny' may well have something to do with insemination because it could be one of the bodily passages and the reason it was mentioned was because somebody was metaphored as being up such a passage. And, of course, one of the main times somebody is up such a passage is when they are fornicating.

Answers on a postcard please.

[Keanoldinho]

I'm going to go ahead and say that if we don't beat the brakes off Wigan we don't deserve to be in the EPL and I'm going to really start worring about relegation.


oh yeah and choda WTF are you on about?

[TURKISH]

Is Bale still up the Damien Duff?

Does 'up the Duff' mean '****ed because you're pregnant' or just '****ed', but has become known as the term for '****ed... because of being knocked up.'

For example, 'up the swanny' means your ****ed, but has nothing to do with insemination. And it is often capped with 'without a paddle', which seems to suggest that a 'swanny' is a stream of some sort. I bet it's a stream of shit, like a sewer or a rectum, since there's another saying called 'up shit's creek without a paddle.'

Or else 'a swanny' is a vagina as there just seems to be a lot of overlap here with people loving to say things to do with ****ing, fornication, fingering, sexual fluid or an kind of sexual act or excretion.

So a 'swanny' may well have something to do with insemination because it could be one of the bodily passages and the reason it was mentioned was because somebody was metaphored as being up such a passage. And, of course, one of the main times somebody is up such a passage is when they are fornicating.

Answers on a postcard please.


Did someone spike your guiness????????? :p ;) :cool:

[choda]

I'm going to go ahead and say that if we don't beat the brakes off Wigan we don't deserve to be in the EPL and I'm going to really start worring about relegation.


oh yeah and choda WTF are you on about?

You know 'up the damien duff' and all that. Lol.

Did you know that Steve Staunton is the father of Damien Duff?

I was basically asking if Bale is still injured or not, but as you can probably tell I'm bored at work and on here.

[TURKISH]

You know 'up the damien duff' and all that. Lol.

Did you know that Steve Staunton is the father of Damien Duff?

I was basically asking if Bale is still injured or not, but as you can probably tell I'm bored at work and on here, so I'm just trying to lift the tempo a bit.

Sounds like something Ramos would say to the spurs team! :eek:

[choda]

[/B]

Sounds like something Ramos would say to the spurs team! :eek:

Exactly mate. Anything related to spurs seems to need a lift of tempo.

[choda]

Was that not brilliant comedy?

I was expecting great cheers of laughter from that, I have to be honest.

I got far more laughs from saying Dyer would've been in a wheelchair for life if he'd gotten the tackle on Scott Brown.

[TURKISH]

Was that not brilliant comedy?

I was expecting great cheers of laughter from that, I have to be honest.

I got far more laughs from saying Dyer would've been in a wheelchair for life if he'd gotten the tackle on Scott Brown.

That was probly the best one liner ive ever heard on here, i was pissing myself. :cool: :confused:

[Spurs 4 Life!]

Well Let's just hope it's another win under the new Ramos era ay!:D

[\jackdaw]

Ramos has been making small tactical changes every game and you can see it in some of the play even if the team does slip into old habits when under pressure.

People were saying that in the EUFA Cup game players were arguing with each other but is this not because of Ramos? Wanting the team to play, defend, attack etc in a certain way and some were not doing that and others where getting frustrated? That was the impression I got anyway.

This should be an easy win with the turmoil at Wigan at the moment. But in saying that we have not looked convicing or really comfortable as a team at the moment. If Ramos's first 4 matches were against harder oppostion I doubt we would of got a result anywhere and no chance of a clean sheet.

But as Wigan are in a worse position then us I am going for a 3-0.

[neilmcnab]

the players were complaining against robbo, he kept booting the ball to opposition as usual, you could see berba complaining and then kpb, when he came on, had words for robbo, and a few others chimbonda, etc, then after that robbo started to distribute to feet, shorter passes,

higher levels of football possession is key.....

lower leagues you can hump it all day....

[Spur]

the players were complaining against robbo, he kept booting the ball to opposition as usual, you could see berba complaining and then kpb, when he came on, had words for robbo, and a few others chimbonda, etc, then after that robbo started to distribute to feet, shorter passes,

higher levels of football possession is key.....

lower leagues you can hump it all day....

Actually, and it has been touched upon elsewhere because I had a convo with someone else about it, it was quite obvious that he kept the ball on the floor for alot of the match.

It's been said he does it for Spurs (under Jol) whilst not doing it at England, so it was a management instruction. But against HTA he did keep it down alot more. Not all the time of course.

What Berba was complaining about was the ball being knocked down the middle. You could see he shouted and his arm movements were geared toward 'outside'. He needed space to take it down and with a player on his 6 it's going to be harder than if the ball was coming straight to one of his feet so to say.

[Sparkystav]

In my opinion nothing less than a Derby style win will do today.

The season should have already started but must start today.

COYS,

Stav

[Spurs 4 Life!]

Come On You Spurs,

We can win this game and start climbing up the table!

COYS

[shakey18]

Kaboul in for Stalteri, otherwise same team as Thursday.

[Keanoldinho]

I'm nervous as feck we must win this game no excuses I mean they've got Titus Bramble in defence we have to score a bucket load

[shakey18]

No Boateng on the bench.Archibald-Henville is on there.

[mjbmedia]

anyone got a link please, the sites seem to be playing up again!!

[\jackdaw]

http://www.myp2p.eu/broadcast.php?matchid=1830&part=sports

Need to download a program called uusee or there is a link for tvants.

[Sparkystav]

Try here: Click me (http://livetv.ru/en/eventinfo/5577/)

Stav

[\jackdaw]

Jenas !!! fook me.. 1-0 COYS

[mjbmedia]

JJ :D nice one

[shakey18]

2-0!!!! JJ Again!!

[mjbmedia]

good lad good lad

[\jackdaw]

WTF .. Jenas on for a hat trick !!

[wayne wonder]

Ok who's that pretending to be Jenas because it cant be our own JJ i reckon it's nigel de jong or someone :rolleyes:

[denis-cro]

Ok who's that pretending to be Jenas because it cant be our own JJ i reckon it's nigel de jong or someone :rolleyes:

Troy Archibald - Henville ??

[wayne wonder]

Troy Archibald - Henville ??

It must be because JJ would never score 2 like that

[mjbmedia]

3-0 nice one Aaron

[wayne wonder]

LENNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNON!!!!

Berbs what a touch

[shakey18]

3-0!!!!!!Gedin!!

[\jackdaw]

Great touch by Berby .. Got to blame the keeper for that but still nice one Lennon to get it on target.

This could be a complete whitewash.. just hope they dont slow down second half ... 6,7,8-0 should be on the cards.

[wayne wonder]

If we could get on an even kiel with our goal difference that would be great

[wayne wonder]

ahhhhh there's the jj we know:p

[SCIFIN17YID]

I just got home, anyone streaming this

http://livefooty.doctor-serv.com/sun11.11/Tottenham_Wigan.html

as this was streaming for me but now it's gone, anyone got alternate links ?

[Sparkystav]

see the prvious page!

[\jackdaw]

TVAnts feed back up again now Scifi

[mjbmedia]

come on Spurs, wipe the floor with them ffs you knobs. Same as Thursday a dull easy walkover win where we yet again fail to rip them apart, we wont gain a thing from this (except three points) whoohoo we've beaten the bottom two teams :rolleyes:

[denis-cro]

tainio is ****ing useless :o

[mjbmedia]

JJ to Bent goalllll

[shakey18]

Geddin Dazza!!

[\jackdaw]

Nice pass by JJ and great finish by Bent ... but how woeful are Wigan, and we thought the Mighty Spurs have problems.

[denis-cro]

JJ man of the match, a clean sheet ( maybe ) ...well we´re progressing :)

[Sparkystav]

Zokora nearly his first goal!

[\jackdaw]

How was that not 5 !!!

[mjbmedia]

JJ man of the match, a clean sheet ( maybe ) ...well we´re progressing :)
hold on hold on, wait til Ramos' team plays some of the big boys before making that judgement.

Blackpool ,Boro, Hapoel and Wigan , id expect three easy wins and a harder fought win , i got three easy wins and a draw. We drew away to Boro, we drew away to Liverpool , wheres the progress?

Now if we wiping Wigans arse after doing the same to Hapoel then yes, progress, we're not and we didnt.

I'll wait to make such grand statements until we have something realistic to make the judgements against

[\jackdaw]

Have to agree MJB, said the same thing in another post, if we had played better teams I dont think we would of got a point. There is still a long way to go but it is nice to win and keep clean sheets.

Shame we have an international break as these can mess up teams momentum and training regimes.

[hodgy]

miracles do happen. i've got my p.c back finally since august. spurs win, jenas bags two and possibly a clean sheet. bring on match of the day tonight. happy days

[shakey18]

4-0, good win, although Wigan were ****in awful.Let's hope these 3 points helps with the confidence.

[Sparkystav]

Still a wins a win. Its three points in the bag.

COYS

Stav

[\jackdaw]

A win is a win, still lots of mistakes, especially in midfeild witht he ball being given away so much. The defence looked shakey a couple time especially with the ball in in the last 5 mins, a better team or player would of got onto the ned of that free header.

Improvments are there and coming in slowly so the future looks bright.

Up to 14th and only -1 goal difference now.

[Spur]

Anyone watch it?

What did you think?

Couldn't even listen to it today I was on a pitch myself.

[Keanoldinho]

Anyone watch it?

What did you think?

Couldn't even listen to it today I was on a pitch myself.


I'm going to watch it at 6pm when it comes on fox soccer channel

[Spur]

I'm going to watch it at 6pm when it comes on fox soccer channel

That wouldn't be 6pm my time would it?

And is that Fox channel on Sopcast?

[berbzy 'G']

Lennons goal was World class... He came over to us when after he scored too...

[shakey18]

Wigan boss Frank Barlow,
"The scoreline was a fair reflection of the match - very fair. We were very disappointing, and contributed to a couple of their goals, while Spurs were outstanding at times".
From small acorns........

[Sparkystav]

And watching the feed today i even saw Berbatov smile!

[peterc]

Well deserved three points, thought that JJ, Lennon played very well today. Four well taken goals, midfield still looks dodgy at times. Still lots of improvement needed.

[wayne wonder]

****ing god damn international break :mad: there's good and bad sides to it!!

Good:

We should have most of our injured players back and fit
Gives Juande time to scout players + fine tune tactics etc with the players who wont be on international duty

Bad:

Momentum could have gone + pick up MORE injuries :(

*Its the spammers next in the league boys i for one cant wait muwahahah! I think the UEFA cup will take care of itself and we'll qualify we seriously need to concentrate on the league and picking up points because pompey, villa and man city are pulling away from us.

[mjbmedia]

Anyone watch it?

What did you think?

Couldn't even listen to it today I was on a pitch myself.
o? what were you selling??

[Spur]

o? what were you selling??

I was selling two late goals because of a shoddy midfield who think they can all get on the scoresheet whenever we go 2 up. Pricks. Their all crap anyway.

[TURKISH]

A day we win and i got a day off to go to the game and i get ****ing drunk! :o

Jd's and cokes don't do it before the game! All i can remember is singing and cheering!

We played some good footie during the game and how jj didn't get a hattrick i don't know!

Gus poyet looks to be benefiting jj but only time will tell. I loved the fact that Ramos put a youngster on the bench which shows know one can rest on there larrels!

Its a building process now and the clean sheets are the main focus and the fact that key players are hitting form robbo, daws, chimbonda, lennon, jj and berba. A good time to play west ham and what a game that should be!

:confused:

[TURKISH]

I was selling two late goals because of a shoddy midfield who think they can all get on the scoresheet whenever we go 2 up. Pricks. Their all crap anyway.

Wants a job down this team i know called Tottenham! Errrr two goals you aint JJ are you?????????? :eek: :D :p

[JuicE]

Just looking at the fixture list until February and we only really have 2 games that we may or should find difficult. That includes the easy ties in the UEFA cup.

If Ramos gets the players working hard i reckon we could be 8th by February!

****! I have started to feel confident again, WHY? :rolleyes:

[Spur]

Just looking at the fixture list until February and we only really have 2 games that we may or should find difficult. That includes the easy ties in the UEFA cup.

If Ramos gets the players working hard i reckon we could be 8th by February!

****! I have started to feel confident again, WHY? :rolleyes:

New manager breeds confidence in fans!

[TURKISH]

Just looking at the fixture list until February and we only really have 2 games that we may or should find difficult. That includes the easy ties in the UEFA cup.

If Ramos gets the players working hard i reckon we could be 8th by February!

****! I have started to feel confident again, WHY? :rolleyes:

Wen still don't know if we can win a game away from home yet and wet ham next away will be difficult!

But i have every confidence that the team will keep improving as i feel we can only get better.

[berbzy 'G']

Wen still don't know if we can win a game away from home yet and wet ham next away will be difficult!

But i have every confidence that the team will keep improving as i feel we can only get better.


West Ham... We'll be lucky to get a draw against them to be honest... Considering that they'll have Ljunberg, Bellamy and Ashton back... As much as I hate to say, they're playing good and complicated football against other teams... Abit like we were last season...

[Baleinho]

Indeed- they are looking abit like we wer last season, which is slightly worrying. They tore Derby apart; but thats not very difficult now isit.

Im chuffed with the performance today; i know its early days but i think this can turn our season around.

JJ i thought had the sort of game that makes you remember why we bought him. 2 goals should of been more and some decent passes. Hopefully he can now become a consistant performer.

What you guys think?

[Spur]

Indeed- they are looking abit like we wer last season, which is slightly worrying. They tore Derby apart; but thats not very difficult now isit.

Im chuffed with the performance today; i know its early days but i think this can turn our season around.

JJ i thought had the sort of game that makes you remember why we bought him. 2 goals should of been more and some decent passes. Hopefully he can now become a consistant performer.

What you guys think?

I think your in cuckoo land.

Then again we did have our monthly "well this may be just what JJ needs to become the great player we all know he can become" discussion a day or two ago.

Two good games this year. One vs Wigan (and like I said he manages to pull that one out every time we play them - big whoopy do) and the other vs Derby, who, let's face it, got a good result against us at only losing 4-0!:rolleyes: :D :cool: ;)

[Keanoldinho]

Just watched the match and we played great, Berbatov was amazing all over the place pulling the strings and deserved a couple of goals for his performance man of the match without a doubt setting up at least 3 of the goals.

Only real problem I noticed was with Dawson and Kaboul their inexperience showed alittle bit with balls coming into the box, they tend to either both go for it or both watch it they need to comunicate alot better than they're doing. They're both quality but just inexperienced, an old head would be great at CB with either one.

Lennon was class to and kept going for all 80 minutes he was out there, JJ was great to but shoulda scored his hat-trick in the first half but still a quality display.

Wigan were absolute shite on par with Derby I'll be surprised if they don't get relegated but you can only beat whose put in front of you and we did that convincingly. Can't wait for the spammers that will be Ramos first real test against a good team.

[choda]

hold on hold on, wait til Ramos' team plays some of the big boys before making that judgement.

Blackpool ,Boro, Hapoel and Wigan , id expect three easy wins and a harder fought win , i got three easy wins and a draw. We drew away to Boro, we drew away to Liverpool , wheres the progress?

Now if we wiping Wigans arse after doing the same to Hapoel then yes, progress, we're not and we didnt.

I'll wait to make such grand statements until we have something realistic to make the judgements against

I base my judgements on tactics and player performances, results will come from that. And our tactics and coaching have improved drastically. It's there in the details and will show up more and more as time goes on and as the team gets more and more confidence.

[choda]

We HAVE to win this. Wigan are both shit AND demoralised. They've lost six in a row and have no coach now either. I was worried they'd appoint somebody this week and have a honeymoon effort against us.

I think this will be the game where the corner can be turned. A win, a good win, 4-0 and another clean sheet would be most welcome and I think it is on the cards.

To be honest I don't understand why there is still so much doom and gloom. The future looks bright to me. There have been many small tactical and coaching changes that are improving us and will bear fruit over time as things develop.

We need to just get results to get our season back on track and boost confidence and morale. We are doing that. Ramos is doing very well and he will continue to work on what needs improvement.

Sweet. And I hope the rest is continues too.

[Spur]

Just watched the match and we played great, Berbatov was amazing all over the place pulling the strings and deserved a couple of goals for his performance man of the match without a doubt setting up at least 3 of the goals.

Only real problem I noticed was with Dawson and Kaboul their inexperience showed alittle bit with balls coming into the box, they tend to either both go for it or both watch it they need to comunicate alot better than they're doing. They're both quality but just inexperienced, an old head would be great at CB with either one.

Lennon was class to and kept going for all 80 minutes he was out there, JJ was great to but shoulda scored his hat-trick in the first half but still a quality display.

Wigan were absolute shite on par with Derby I'll be surprised if they don't get relegated but you can only beat whose put in front of you and we did that convincingly. Can't wait for the spammers that will be Ramos first real test against a good team.

Agree with most of that.

It did look bad when both CB's are going for the same ball, on another day against someone else...

Robbo looked good too. Not much to do but it's the little things like jumping into the ball when it's coming toward him with effort and aggression. I notice things like that being a keeps! I'll give him another assist too which i'm not sure is a good thing but still...

Unlike most I think the international break is a good thing. I will give the management team time to work with the players again.

This result is nothing to get excited over. It was 4-0 against a very bad team without a manager. Nothing unexpected.

What I did think was obvious is that getting clean sheets has been drilled into them, by what Gus said after the game. I think they all know how important it is, and we've now only conceded one goal in four games - a "lucky punt" n'all.

Jenas played well, but it's nothing less than we've come to expect. One decent performance which he'll live of the back of for the next few months - unless...no...surely not...could it be?...this is the time he turns in round into that player we all know he can become! I predict more medocrity ahead though - it's a safe bet.

Lennon too looked sharp yesterday, but his end product is still very much lacking.

[JuicE]

How sublime was the touch from berby for Lennon's Goal!!!!!????

Class!

[jrio]

Two good games this year. One vs Wigan (and like I said he manages to pull that one out every time we play them - big whoopy do) and the other vs Derby, who, let's face it, got a good result against us at only losing 4-0!:rolleyes: :D :cool: ;)

I can now make it official - if you lose 4 nil away to Spurs, and JJ looks worth 9m, you WILL be relegated.

[spursmadnick06]

Does anybody know how many goals JJ has scored for us now? must surely be one of our best scoring midfielders in years!

Glad to see that he's a sure starter with Ramos aswell, shows that experts of the game can see his talent.

Oh and it's about time he got a chant too! can't be too many midfielders who score great goals for their club(not to mention one against the scum) and don't get a chant!

[jrio]

Does anybody know how many goals JJ has scored for us now? must surely be one of our best scoring midfielders in years!

Oh and it's about time he got a chant too! can't be too many midfielders who score great goals for their club(not to mention one against the scum) and don't get a chant!

I always go by league goals(even against the likes of Derby and Wigan) and he's been largely in the 1 in 4.5 category.

I thought the second goal was largely a product of the defender not realising that Keane had been offside, leaving JJ with only Kirkland to beat. He did it with some aplomb. I wonder why he couldn't at least force a save for his potential third when played in by Berb? It struck me as symptomatic of the same fluffs that he did last season against Pool and Toon.

Don't hold your breath for a chant. Virtually no fan wanted him to come here, virtually no fan has been enthused by his performances, though off the top of my head you could construct one built around Bowie's "Jean Genie".

[spursmadnick06]

I always go by league goals(even against the likes of Derby and Wigan) and he's been largely in the 1 in 4.5 category.
.
And Man United, Chelsea, Arsenal, in recent years. His goalscoring record for us is pretty impressive, not to mention the style of many of them goals.

Some fans may not like it but they will have to get used to him, clearly Ramos is seeing what Jol saw (as Jenas is the only central midfielder to start every game so far) and if JJ continues to play like he has been then i can't sense that changing.



I thought the second goal was largely a product of the defender not realising that Keane had been offside, leaving JJ with only Kirkland to beat. He did it with some aplomb. I wonder why he couldn't at least force a save for his potential third when played in by Berb? It struck me as symptomatic of the same fluffs that he did last season against Pool and Too'
.

2 goals, one assist, and a disallowed goal, and you're going to knock him for one shot that went just wide after yet another intelligent run by him?

[Gino Ginelli]

Disclaimer: Ok, let's get this out of the way. Yes, we were playing Wigan, and yes they possess a woeful defender in Tit(us) Bramble, and yes they are mostly poo. So was that performance more us being so good that they looked terrible, or they played so terrible that we looked good? I leave the floor open.

HOLY CRAP!!! How good was that?!

I need to open this by simply noting that Keane and Lennon were terrific today, and Jenas and Berbatov were AWESOME! That has got to be JJ's best performance for us yet. I have been his amongst his biggest detractors for many a year now, but he has quietly impressed me this season, and by christ did he ever today. Terrific carrying of the ball, positive attacking play alongside his usual tireless running and covering. A sterling midfield performance from him, with 1 exceptional goal, and the other from getting into a good position. The opportunity he had for his hat-trick but scuffed I felt he should have squared for Robbie, and he should have hit a good opening with his left in the 2nd half. But nevertheless, well played son!

Berbatov.

I'll just let the name linger.

DB9 has responded to his critics. His touch, vision and balance was nothing short of mercurial. The flicks, one touch passing, link play;all of it was a joy to behold, and so wonderful it had me grinning like a kid with glee. He was absolutely ****ing phenomenal. I hate Zokora for refusing to play him in and go crashing about, spooning his shot wide. Berba deserved a goal or two today.

As did Keano, whose work for the first goal should answer a few questions as to whether he's world class or not, and his own flicks and link play was easily comparable to Berba's. Again denied a goal by others not laying it off. Although it's hard to fault Lennon for his poor crossing (which still sucks) when he is clearly back to his lively best. His approach work is first rate, but someone really needs to get him working on crossing at speed.

I note his partnership with Chimbo is reforged at last, the pair working well again down the flank, with Chimbo all the better for it.

Special mention for Steed again, the lad's finally got some direction to go with his energy, and he's performed well again today. I still feel that Bale should get his LW place back, as Lee is still my first choice at LB.

Dawson did ok for what as required. It doesn't help him though when Kaboul, even against a lone Marcus Bent, still goes a-wandering and lets the opposition into the box! Two or three occasions had to Wigan players on their own in our 18 yard area! Just as well they were appalling, as you know a Rooney / Adebayor / Torres would, and already has, punished us there.

So essentially, going forward we're a joy to watch. Defensively we're leakier than one of SurreySpur's plumbing jobs! (Har! :p )

Jenas endeared himself further to me on his MOTD interview. When asked if things had improved under Ramos, he quite rightly said "Well I don't know about that, as Martin was great manager as well. But sometimes a change can just freshen things up, so maybe it's made us get behind each other more" or words to that effect. Good response.

[olly27]

The West Spam game is going to be interesting...Ramos's first real test. Wigan were shocking and we played well hence the gulf in class on the day. If lennon could cross he would be very sought after amongst the top clubs. His corners weren't that bad..so it seems to me he has a problem getting elevation on the ball when its moving (when height on the cross is required)...he beat his man countless times but failed to deliver a decent cross practically every time. Hopefully he'll improve in that department. Nevertheless his best performance of the season and that goal should give him confidence.

[mjbmedia]

Lennons crossing isnt the greatest however time and again i find myself berating the forwards (not just Spurs) for not going to the near post when the guy crossing the ball hasnt got an easy time of it, Chances are the ball will come in slightly weak and the first or second defender will deal with it,

thats where Links got a lot of joy from, ran to near post, first one to the ball , goal .
Dont rely on defender not dealing with it for it to get to you, go to the ball dont always expect the crosser to be at full pelt and still be able to pick your head out of a haystack, and if it does get to you bloody finish it off, make the most of it. Yeh quite often the cross hits the first defender, thats because the defender has positioned themselves where maybe one of the forwards should be?

[shakey18]

The West Spam game is going to be interesting...Ramos's first real test. Wigan were shocking and we played well hence the gulf in class on the day. If lennon could cross he would be very sought after amongst the top clubs. His corners weren't that bad..so it seems to me he has a problem getting elevation on the ball when its moving (when height on the cross is required)...he beat his man countless times but failed to deliver a decent cross practically every time. Hopefully he'll improve in that department. Nevertheless his best performance of the season and that goal should give him confidence.

Let's hope Bale is back for that one.Lennon on the right and Bale on the left sounds good to me!.

[olly27]

Let's hope Bale is back for that one.Lennon on the right and Bale on the left sounds good to me!.

Unfortunatley I read somewhere that King & Bale are out for the best part of a month...hope its not the case..:(

I was really hoping that we would be strengthened for the spammers..

[mjbmedia]

Was anyone else strangely affected by the serious lack of any atmosphere at that game?? Our first home league game since Jol left, not really much chanting or singing. I know Ramos has to win over us yet (excluding some devout Juande lovers on here) but god the crowd were quiet for a 4-0 win, certainly didnt sound to me like the WHL faithful have 'got what they wanted' .

I repeat i hope by Xmas after some tougher games Spurs are still going as strong as they did for the first 4 'easy' games of Ramos' reign.
Dont get me wrong i know hes good but he has to have the same expectation levels given to him as Jol had.

[Spur]

Was anyone else strangely affected by the serious lack of any atmosphere at that game?? Our first home league game since Jol left, not really much chanting or singing. I know Ramos has to win over us yet (excluding some devout Juande lovers on here) but god the crowd were quiet for a 4-0 win, certainly didnt sound to me like the WHL faithful have 'got what they wanted' .

I repeat i hope by Xmas after some tougher games Spurs are still going as strong as they did for the first 4 'easy' games of Ramos' reign.
Dont get me wrong i know hes good but he has to have the same expectation levels given to him as Jol had.

It's only Wigan! Hardly anything to get excited over is there! It's like all those Jenas lovers who say he won us the game. Well that's great, he's played good twice this year, once against Wigan and once against Derby - do not get excited just yet about Jenas turning good.

Juande has done alright, he's won against Wigan, Blackpool and Tel-Aviv, he drew with Boro thanks to a 'lucky punt'. The most impressive thing for me is that's the only goal we've conceded. Would anyone like to care at a guess of how many goals we'd have let in under Jol...? Would have been more than one.

The other thing that has struck me is that the players are enjoying themselves it seems. I can't remember who said it, or where I read it (may have been Jenas) but they said "we're enjoying our football again all thanks to Juande". Anyone see Jermain kiss DB23? Berba smile? The whole team get in on a celebration smiles all round? I'll try and find that article.

It did seem a bit dead ni atmosphere, but it's nothing that should surprise. We've just sacked a fans favourite so some are going to be critical in the extreme. Picking up on things that aren't problems yet, and maybe never will.

Disagree with that last point. How can you expect a manager to get 4th if he's going to miss out on 11 games of the season? My expectation is we get back into the UEFA Cup. But if he fails then all the blame doesn't lie on his shoulders.

Juande has come here into a win-win situation. He can't be blamed for almost anything bad, but anything good he'll take responsibility for. That's due to someone else.

[Keanoldinho]

Was anyone else strangely affected by the serious lack of any atmosphere at that game?? Our first home league game since Jol left, not really much chanting or singing. I know Ramos has to win over us yet (excluding some devout Juande lovers on here) but god the crowd were quiet for a 4-0 win, certainly didnt sound to me like the WHL faithful have 'got what they wanted' .

I repeat i hope by Xmas after some tougher games Spurs are still going as strong as they did for the first 4 'easy' games of Ramos' reign.
Dont get me wrong i know hes good but he has to have the same expectation levels given to him as Jol had.


How many games into the season were we when Santini walked and Jol took over? and what kind of expectations did you place on Jol then?

[mjbmedia]

How many games into the season were we when Santini walked and Jol took over? and what kind of expectations did you place on Jol then?
Jol didnt come with all the plomp and pageantary that Ramos has, or indeed with any of the CV credentials (certainly not at the same level) so i didnt have any expectation and also he took over a squad that had done diddly squat for many many seasons, whereas Ramos has taken over a quality squad thats got 5th twice (Spurs recent thread confirmed a lot on here thought our midfield was equal to Liverpools, our strikeforce is superb) so you tell me why I shouldnt have high if not higher expectations of Ramos and Spurs now than i did of Jol either three seasons ago or at the beginning of this season.

Im not anti Ramos, im looking forwards to him winning us stuff and getting top 4 next season, and getting UEFA league position this season, but im not getting excited by 3 out of four clean sheets against teams of muppets hence me saying if we're still doing well defensively when we're playing stronger sides then great stuff, the problems still persist its just that the weaker teams couldnt take advantage not so much that we were defensively stronger.

[jrio]

How many games into the season were we when Santini walked and Jol took over? and what kind of expectations did you place on Jol then?

14th when Santini left and Jol finished 9th. I suppose to equal that Ramos would have to finish 13th. There's a 5 point gap between 11th and 12th so it will need a long consistent run to get near UEFA qualifying. When Jol took over I just wanted him to restore some stability and respectability to the club, and get Redknapp out of the team. He certainly did that.

[jrio]

..(Spurs recent thread confirmed a lot on here thought our midfield was equal to Liverpools, our strikeforce is superb) ...

What!!!???? Liverpool's midfield? Riise, Babel, Gerrard, Alonso, Sissoko, Mascherano, Pennant, Benayoun equalled by Bale, Tainio, Jenas, Zokora, Hudd, Boateng, Lennon, Routledge? Did the forum get a cheap supply of consciousness raising drugs that day? Was that the thread where he was asking which of our players would get in the first team of the top 4? I seem to recall there was major agreement on only 3 - King, Berb and Lennon(I'd say Bale, but not Lennon).

[mjbmedia]

What!!!???? Liverpool's midfield? Riise, Babel, Gerrard, Alonso, Sissoko, Mascherano, Pennant, Benayoun equalled by Bale, Tainio, Jenas, Zokora, Hudd, Boateng, Lennon, Routledge? Did the forum get a cheap supply of consciousness raising drugs that day? Was that the thread where he was asking which of our players would get in the first team of the top 4? I seem to recall there was major agreement on only 3 - King, Berb and Lennon(I'd say Bale, but not Lennon).
well...thats what i thought!!!but every so often it keeps being bought up that it was said our midfield or squad maybe was equal to Liverpools :confused: maybe im confused cos I dont think it is

[MiloMinderbinder]

Was anyone else strangely affected by the serious lack of any atmosphere at that game??

Yep, after we went 2 up the atmosphere was as flat as it gets. Not surprising really, game over, not a lot to get excited about. Got bored after the 4th goal. Got bloody cold with 10 mins to go. Left with 5 mins to go, was bored and cold.

so to sum up, we weren't exhibiting any negative vibes, we were just bored.

[mjbmedia]

so to sum up, we weren't exhibiting any negative vibes, we were just bored.
so...just how does one excite a Spurs fan??
keep it clean please!!

[MiloMinderbinder]

so...just how does one excite a Spurs fan??
keep it clean please!!

There are a few methods;

1) Involves the fully occupied Arsenal first team coach, an 88mm field gun, lots of ammo and a lanyard.

2) Loads of goals, some silverware, a new road system around N17.

3) Keira Knightley.

[spurs61]

so...just how does one excite a Spurs fan??
keep it clean please!!


Tell them Ginola is coming back!!!!!:D

The best way to excite a Spurs fan is to give them a faint hope of emerging from twenty years of mediocrity, as witnessed every June and July for the past 20 seasons and at every managerial change!;)

BTW, I too was bored after half time on Sunday. Can someone explain how Wigan managed to make Jenas look a top class midfielder? Even Chimbonda looked vaguely competant and interested.

Wigan were worse than Derby, I truly felt sorry for the handful of die-hards (for die-hards read morons) who treked down to see their team roll over and die in the opening five minutes.

[jrio]

Tell them Ginola is coming back!!!!!:D



Spurs fans: "Why is he coming back?"

Answer: "Because you're WORTH IT!" :D

[spurs61]

Spurs fans: "Why is he coming back?"

Answer: "Because you're WORTH IT!" :D

Lol, very good!

[Spur]

What!!!???? Liverpool's midfield? Riise, Babel, Gerrard, Alonso, Sissoko, Mascherano, Pennant, Benayoun equalled by Bale, Tainio, Jenas, Zokora, Hudd, Boateng, Lennon, Routledge? Did the forum get a cheap supply of consciousness raising drugs that day? Was that the thread where he was asking which of our players would get in the first team of the top 4? I seem to recall there was major agreement on only 3 - King, Berb and Lennon(I'd say Bale, but not Lennon).

One (http://www.thfctalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4140)

Two (http://www.thfctalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4190)

Three (http://www.thfctalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4532)

I made three threads on the midfield. They make for interesting reading a couple of months into the season!

[Keanoldinho]

Jol didnt come with all the plomp and pageantary that Ramos has, or indeed with any of the CV credentials (certainly not at the same level) so i didnt have any expectation and also he took over a squad that had done diddly squat for many many seasons, whereas Ramos has taken over a quality squad thats got 5th twice (Spurs recent thread confirmed a lot on here thought our midfield was equal to Liverpools, our strikeforce is superb) so you tell me why I shouldnt have high if not higher expectations of Ramos and Spurs now than i did of Jol either three seasons ago or at the beginning of this season.

Im not anti Ramos, im looking forwards to him winning us stuff and getting top 4 next season, and getting UEFA league position this season, but im not getting excited by 3 out of four clean sheets against teams of muppets hence me saying if we're still doing well defensively when we're playing stronger sides then great stuff, the problems still persist its just that the weaker teams couldnt take advantage not so much that we were defensively stronger.


I see were you're coming from and I also have high hopes for the man but regardless of who the coach is we're not going to just walse into the top 4. To achieve that it's going to be a season long battle and take alot of heart and commitment from everyone at the club. Ramos was just stating he was happy to have only concede 1 goal in 4 games. Do you really believe Jol in the current state of affairs we were in would of achieved that? I seriously doubt it.

[mjbmedia]

i agree Spur, they do
i was mistaken oops

Nice to see i was about the only one who called Bale good in midfield . So thats one thing ive got right this season :cool: ;)

[Keanoldinho]

i agree Spur, they do
i was mistaken oops

Nice to see i was about the only one who called Bale good in midfield . So thats one thing ive got right this season :cool: ;)


I was touting Bale for the LW spot ever since we bought him, he's the new Giggsy you know:D

[Spur]

I think once he's back we'll see Bale moving back and forth between LB and LW.

Ramos is a rotator, he will rotate Bale with Lee at left back, and with Steed on left wing. Hopefully it will see Steed rotate into the middle of the park a few times.

[mjbmedia]

I see were you're coming from and I also have high hopes for the man but regardless of who the coach is we're not going to just walse into the top 4. To achieve that it's going to be a season long battle and take alot of heart and commitment from everyone at the club. Ramos was just stating he was happy to have only concede 1 goal in 4 games. Do you really believe Jol in the current state of affairs we were in would of achieved that? I seriously doubt it.
no i agree, i never thought we'd waltz into the top four this season before the balls up, i never believed the hype.
When i say give Ramos the same goals i mean UEFA thru the league for this season is a must (unless we win the thing itself). Because of the starting position he finds himself in, in no way is top four anyway realistic, and never really was anyway ,yet some on here expected it with Jol yet are 'happy' for Ramos to rebuild in this season with the same squad that they expected Jol to get top four with, go figure??? ,
He should then challenge top 4 next season , whether we get top four isnt 'expected' but we have to be challenging for Ramos to be seen as being better than Jol was , else a safe 5th and a little cup run here and there next season isnt worth writing off this season for IMO.

Re Jol managing to concede just one in 4, he may have done it V that opposition but then he was hardly motivated to do anything anyway this season,
But hey im 100% behind Ramos, hope the board are for his and our sakes

[jrio]

One (http://www.thfctalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4140)

Two (http://www.thfctalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4190)

Three (http://www.thfctalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4532)

I made three threads on the midfield. They make for interesting reading a couple of months into the season!


"Compared to Liverpool our midfield is a joke...." [and others]

Sometimes I forget how astute you are, because you often hide behind a veil of stupidity. :eek:

But only sometimes. I think your are the Thread King of THFCTalk. What tribute do you demand, O Lord? If it's anything more than washing your feet with some kind of balm and drying it with my hair, you can go and **** yourself, you dirty bastard! ;)

[jrio]

I think once he's back we'll see Bale moving back and forth between LB and LW.

Ramos is a rotator, he will rotate Bale with Lee at left back, and with Steed on left wing. Hopefully it will see Steed rotate into the middle of the park a few times.

If he does, just call me Jan van der Rio. Very awkward as I've only just changed it to Juan de la cruz Rios. :o :eek:

[Spur]

"Compared to Liverpool our midfield is a joke...." [and others]

Sometimes I forget how astute you are, because you often hide behind a veil of stupidity. :eek:

But only sometimes. I think your are the Thread King of THFCTalk. What tribute do you demand, O Lord? If it's anything more than washing your feet with some kind of balm and drying it with my hair, you can go and **** yourself, you dirty bastard! ;)

Thanks.

Just what have you been on tonight exactly?

[jrio]

Thanks.

Just what have you been on tonight exactly?

STRONGBOW.

[Keanoldinho]

"Compared to Liverpool our midfield is a joke...." [and others]

Sometimes I forget how astute you are, because you often hide behind a veil of stupidity. :eek:

But only sometimes. I think your are the Thread King of THFCTalk. What tribute do you demand, O Lord? If it's anything more than washing your feet with some kind of balm and drying it with my hair, you can go and **** yourself, you dirty bastard! ;)


from one drunk to another I think you mean you are or better yet you're:D :p

[jrio]

from one drunk to another I think you mean you are or better yet you're:D :p

Typo. Your means "belong to" whereas you're is an abbreviation of "you are". But you're right. I was drunk. It would seem we may have more in common than either of us suspects.

[mjbmedia]

STRONGBOW.
blimey, unless im very much mistaken thats a REAL MANS DRINK ;)

I am very much mistaken!! :D

[choda]

no i agree, i never thought we'd waltz into the top four this season before the balls up, i never believed the hype.
When i say give Ramos the same goals i mean UEFA thru the league for this season is a must (unless we win the thing itself). Because of the starting position he finds himself in, in no way is top four anyway realistic, and never really was anyway ,yet some on here expected it with Jol yet are 'happy' for Ramos to rebuild in this season with the same squad that they expected Jol to get top four with, go figure??? ,
He should then challenge top 4 next season , whether we get top four isnt 'expected' but we have to be challenging for Ramos to be seen as being better than Jol was , else a safe 5th and a little cup run here and there next season isnt worth writing off this season for IMO.

Re Jol managing to concede just one in 4, he may have done it V that opposition but then he was hardly motivated to do anything anyway this season,
But hey im 100% behind Ramos, hope the board are for his and our sakes

I don't think anybody expected us to walze into the top four, but some put us as favourites. I was never so optimistic, I just expected to have a right go at it, but I can see how some would have said that with Arsenal looking disheveled and that.

And I don't understand why your expectations change from Ramos than to Jol. Surely expectations are the same for any coach and therefore you can judge their credentials accordingly?

For example, I want the same things from Ramos as I did form Jol. It finally became clear to me from day one this year that Jol was never going to deliver the next part of the plan.

And what do I want? I want Ramos to get the most from the resources he has and that gives spurs a chance of becoming big again. The sky's the limit for Tottenham, but we have to do it absolutely correctly. We are not in a positon of strength in terms of stadia and 10 years of cl money like the other big dogs are.

[choda]

Jol didnt come with all the plomp and pageantary that Ramos has, or indeed with any of the CV credentials (certainly not at the same level) so i didnt have any expectation and also he took over a squad that had done diddly squat for many many seasons, whereas Ramos has taken over a quality squad thats got 5th twice (Spurs recent thread confirmed a lot on here thought our midfield was equal to Liverpools, our strikeforce is superb) so you tell me why I shouldnt have high if not higher expectations of Ramos and Spurs now than i did of Jol either three seasons ago or at the beginning of this season.

Im not anti Ramos, im looking forwards to him winning us stuff and getting top 4 next season, and getting UEFA league position this season, but im not getting excited by 3 out of four clean sheets against teams of muppets hence me saying if we're still doing well defensively when we're playing stronger sides then great stuff, the problems still persist its just that the weaker teams couldnt take advantage not so much that we were defensively stronger.

When was the last time that happened against anyone? And I am excited because I see large tactical changes that I wanted to see all over the pitch.

[choda]

One (http://www.thfctalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4140)

Two (http://www.thfctalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4190)

Three (http://www.thfctalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4532)

I made three threads on the midfield. They make for interesting reading a couple of months into the season!

I was going to say something, but then I realised I had said most of what I wanted to say already in the third thread there.

Let's wait and see what happens over the next while because already the midfield is looking far better. I watched the boro game and the midfield was very much improved. Jenas and Boeteng were great. And Jenas had another great game on sunday.

As I've been saying for a while let's see how they do without such gaps between the players, with good organisation and the team passing it quicker and having options. It's really been so hard for the cm's to do well. But the individuals concerned do have a lot to prove all the same.

The way Jenas has played under Ramos has buoyed me though and I've been one of his biggest critics on here. 2 great games out of 4 seems to suggest Ramos will finally get the player out of him. He seems to have effected him the most. Perhaps Jenas was the one who suffered the most in Jol's style and tactics as he had no urgency, competency or life in his play. He certainly has now. See MadNick, I will give him credit when it's due. ;)

But, of course, time will really tell on this one. I've seen him 'respond' before only to wither and slowly die a new death shortly after for another 10 games.

And I'm not saying we won't require new players. We certainly need more wingers in the squad and almost certainly a top drawer cm as well. But I think Ramos has it right when he says he wants to take a full appraisal of what he has and how it is doing under his coaching ability.

[mjbmedia]

I don't think anybody expected us to walze into the top four, but some put us as favourites. I was never so optimistic, I just expected to have a right go at it, but I can see how some would have said that with Arsenal looking disheveled and that.

And I don't understand why your expectations change from Ramos than to Jol. Surely expectations are the same for any coach and therefore you can judge their credentials accordingly?

.
THEY DONT DIFFER!!! thats my point, most on here are saying theyre not expecting much from this season now, yet im still expecting UEFA qualification thru the league, same as i was under Jol . Its the others (and im sure yourself in earleir posts ) said things along the lines of theyre not expecting Ramos to achieve anythign league wise this season, maybe top ten, yet why are they aiming so low when Ramos is supposedly so much better than Jol so surely we should be expecting the same at least if not better, allowing for the poor start of course

[MiloMinderbinder]

THEY DONT DIFFER!!! thats my point, most on here are saying theyre not expecting much from this season now, yet im still expecting UEFA qualification thru the league, same as i was under Jol . Its the others (and im sure yourself in earleir posts ) said things along the lines of theyre not expecting Ramos to achieve anythign league wise this season, maybe top ten, yet why are they aiming so low when Ramos is supposedly so much better than Jol so surely we should be expecting the same at least if not better, allowing for the poor start of course

Does someone else want to explain that Ramos must be given a chance to asses the squad, get rid of what he doesn't like, bring in what he does like and alter the set up and tactics accordingly before we can place any sort of expectations on him, certainly in the short-term, or shall I do it?

[choda]

THEY DONT DIFFER!!! thats my point, most on here are saying theyre not expecting much from this season now, yet im still expecting UEFA qualification thru the league, same as i was under Jol . Its the others (and im sure yourself in earleir posts ) said things along the lines of theyre not expecting Ramos to achieve anythign league wise this season, maybe top ten, yet why are they aiming so low when Ramos is supposedly so much better than Jol so surely we should be expecting the same at least if not better, allowing for the poor start of course

No, no, no, you said you expected more from Ramos given his CV. That's what I was on about.

And they won't shouldn't and won't differ in expection over time, but it's obviously unfair to expect the same as at the start of the season now. He has mountain to climb to challenge for 4th. If he gets us into the top 7 or wins a cup then he has done a great job this year.

[choda]

Does someone else want to explain that Ramos must be given a chance to asses the squad, get rid of what he doesn't like, bring in what he does like and alter the set up and tactics accordingly before we can place any sort of expectations on him, certainly in the short-term, or shall I do it?

It's already been tried numerous times mate. Let's just say he should be given a good deal of time, like Jol, and see if he does better.

[Spur]

Jenas still plays too deep. Doesn't have urgency or inclination to get up the pitch when he's a see's a big gap. He does it every now and then, but there are other players who realise that this it the reason they are actually on the pitch. He's supposed to be our attacking midfielder and yet all Jenas lovers go on about are his defensive 'qualities' - go figure.

Supposed to be box-to-box but all we so often see is him going to our box, then back to our box after giving the ball away. He's had two better games, one he was a star in. But it seems him up that he's performed well in all of two games this year - Wigan and Derby. Both going down.

Has to improve considerably to be considered a genuine and consistant match winner. Or not even match winner, just have an impact (positive impact) on a match.

[mjbmedia]

No, no, no, you said you expected more from Ramos given his CV. That's what I was on about.

And they won't shouldn't and won't differ in expection over time, but it's obviously unfair to expect the same as at the start of the season now. He has mountain to climb to challenge for 4th. If he gets us into the top 7 or wins a cup then he has done a great job this year.
yes over time i expect more else why the hell bring him in ?

This season i repeat i expect UEFA position in the league so top 7 , i didnt say i expect 4th did i???

To KK,so he has to assess the team, you mean the squad that for 2 seasons running has got 5th place? that squad has to be assessed and possibly pulled apart, maybe long term to suit Juandes way i can see it, but hes got the same squad plus a few strong additions (Bale especially when hes fit!!and Bent) that got 5th last season and the season before that.

How many times , to use your phrase, does one have to point out that its not like Ramos is taking over a crap squad thats done **** all for seasons, hes taking over a strong squad that done well for the last two seasons but that due to whatever reasons you want to blame it on, were low on confidence and results at the start of this season. Ramos has to work on the mental side of the squad, not assessing it and changing it, not for this season, add to it a bit in Jan, change things in the summer, but hes got a bloody good squad there and if Jol were still here and didnt have all the shit over him from the board then id expect us to get top 7 even from where we are now certainly. SO why i repeat the question dont people like you KK expect us to get top 7 with a much better manager and a still strong squad??

its your views that dont seem to add up , not mine. :D

Personally i beleive he will get us top 7 at worst and a cup win too . If he doesnt im still behind him tho.

[TURKISH]

yes over time i expect more else why the hell bring him in ?

This season i repeat i expect UEFA position in the league so top 7 , i didnt say i expect 4th did i???

To KK,so he has to assess the team, you mean the squad that for 2 seasons running has got 5th place? that squad has to be assessed and possibly pulled apart, maybe long term to suit Juandes way i can see it, but hes got the same squad plus a few strong additions (Bale especially when hes fit!!and Bent) that got 5th last season and the season before that.

How many times , to use your phrase, does one have to point out that its not like Ramos is taking over a crap squad thats done **** all for seasons, hes taking over a strong squad that done well for the last two seasons but that due to whatever reasons you want to blame it on, were low on confidence and results at the start of this season. Ramos has to work on the mental side of the squad, not assessing it and changing it, not for this season, add to it a bit in Jan, change things in the summer, but hes got a bloody good squad there and if Jol were still here and didnt have all the shit over him from the board then id expect us to get top 7 even from where we are now certainly. SO why i repeat the question dont people like you KK expect us to get top 7 with a much better manager and a still strong squad??

its your views that dont seem to add up , not mine. :D

Personally i beleive he will get us top 7 at worst and a cup win too . If he doesnt im still behind him tho.

I hope so i think because of him uefa cup is a big possibility! But i would love top seven finish but i won't be judging him on this season as i feel the way he took over the job the team was is disarey.

[mjbmedia]

I hope so i think because of him uefa cup is a big possibility! But i would love top seven finish but i won't be judging him on this season as i feel the way he took over the job the team was is disarey.
i know where people are coming from with this, but truly if hes as good as its said he is then he should be able to get something from this season.
Any manager worth his salt in any business should be able to turn things around to the extent needed for 7th minimum given the quality there is to work with at Spurs already. I mean its only 11 points away with 75 still to play for and many games against those between us and 7th .

[Keanoldinho]

Our next game against the spammers is hugh a must win. I hope he has us flying out the gate like he had Sevilla at the lane.

[choda]

yes over time i expect more else why the hell bring him in ?

This season i repeat i expect UEFA position in the league so top 7 , i didnt say i expect 4th did i???

To KK,so he has to assess the team, you mean the squad that for 2 seasons running has got 5th place? that squad has to be assessed and possibly pulled apart, maybe long term to suit Juandes way i can see it, but hes got the same squad plus a few strong additions (Bale especially when hes fit!!and Bent) that got 5th last season and the season before that.

How many times , to use your phrase, does one have to point out that its not like Ramos is taking over a crap squad thats done **** all for seasons, hes taking over a strong squad that done well for the last two seasons but that due to whatever reasons you want to blame it on, were low on confidence and results at the start of this season. Ramos has to work on the mental side of the squad, not assessing it and changing it, not for this season, add to it a bit in Jan, change things in the summer, but hes got a bloody good squad there and if Jol were still here and didnt have all the shit over him from the board then id expect us to get top 7 even from where we are now certainly. SO why i repeat the question dont people like you KK expect us to get top 7 with a much better manager and a still strong squad??

its your views that dont seem to add up , not mine. :D

Personally i beleive he will get us top 7 at worst and a cup win too . If he doesnt im still behind him tho.

You don't get what I saying. You shouldn't judge managers in the long-term by different standards, that's warped logic -that's what I am saying. They all should be judged on how they do with the resources at their disposal. Ramos will have the same that Jol had. And hopefully he won't end up going backwards.

And you can go on about the 5th places, but one game in and I knew we were not going to finish 5th, no way. We were tactically poor and it was cathing up with us. In football you can have a short-term success and not be so good, but it will catch up with you.

Jol was going to be outmaneuvered by City and co. this year. He'd have been lucky to get uefa via the league, even without the whole undermining he got. We were just shipping too many goals, the set pieces were shocking and the players were far too far apart. You can see in 4 games the set pieces have improved unbelievably. Still blaming the players?

It's the not just defending either, attacking too. Ramos is in a different league altogether to Jol. You will see that in time.

[mjbmedia]

You don't understand what I saying. You shouldn't judge managers in the long-term by different standards, that's warped logic. They all should be judged on how they do with the resources at their disposal. Ramos will have the same that Jol had. And hopefully he won't end up going backwards.

And you can go on about the 5th places, but one game in and I knew we were not going to finish 5th, no way. We were tactically poor and it was cathing up with us. In football you can have a short-term success and not be so good, but it will catch up with you.

Jol was going to be outmaneuvered by City and co. this year. He'd have been lucky to get uefa via the league, even without the whole undermining he got. We were just shipping too many goals, the set pieces were shocking and the players were far too far apart. You can see in 4 games the set pieces have improved unbelievably. Still blaming the players?

It's the not just defending either, attacking too. Ramos is in a different league altogether to Jol. You will see that in time.
ok so to use your logic in the first paragraph youre judging us under Ramos on 4 games V Blackpool, Boro, Hapoel and Wigan. All of these teams missed pretty good chances to score against us. Now theyre great benchmarks to judge our weak defence by im sure. We play West Ham next, theyre doing ok at the mo and wil lbe a better truer test for us.

Against Jols games away to Sunderland (which you said was going to be a toughie) Everton (always a challenge) Derby ok easy, Man U where we deserved to draw at least, Bolton (always struggle V them no matter who the boss is) Liverpool (nearly won it) and Newcastle where we were crap but hed had enough by then. Fulham we missed chances to kill off the game but stil should have won , Villa we came back tremendously well following what must have been a pretty good half time talk and some changes.

So if you're gonna judge you should try to make it fair, wait til we play some quality teams

[choda]

ok so to use your logic in the first paragraph youre judging us under Ramos on 4 games V Blackpool, Boro, Hapoel and Wigan. All of these teams missed pretty good chances to score against us. Now theyre great benchmarks to judge our weak defence by im sure. We play West Ham next, theyre doing ok at the mo and wil lbe a better truer test for us.

Against Jols games away to Sunderland (which you said was going to be a toughie) Everton (always a challenge) Derby ok easy, Man U where we deserved to draw at least, Bolton (always struggle V them no matter who the boss is) Liverpool (nearly won it) and Newcastle where we were crap but hed had enough by then. Fulham we missed chances to kill off the game but stil should have won , Villa we came back tremendously well following what must have been a pretty good half time talk and some changes.

So if you're gonna judge you should try to make it fair, wait til we play some quality teams

Oh I agree with you, but you see I'm judging by performance too. There were tactical things that were driving me bonkers and they are being changed. The performances, the tactics, coaching etc. look so much better to me - which is why I am confident in Ramos and the future.

And perhaps I am misjuding what you are saying by expectation. Perhaps you mean you just rate him higher than Jol and think also that he will do better.

[mjbmedia]

Oh I agree with you, but you see I'm judging by performance too. There were tactical things that were driving me bonkers and they are being changed. The performances, the tactics, coaching etc. look so much better to me - which is why I am confident in Ramos and the future.

And perhaps I am misjuding what you are saying by expectation. Perhaps you mean you just rate him higher than Jol and think also that he will do better.
yeh misunderstanding both ways mate. think we actually agree in principle :D