Jol Wanted Elano and Petrov

[Keanoldinho]

But Comolli wanted Bent, Kaboul, Taarabt, and Boateng. Interesting read with a couple of alarming quotes from Jol about our Director of Football. I don't know about you but Elano and Petrov woulda been dynamite if we'd of got them.

here's the article

http://www.goal.com/en/Articolo.aspx?ContenutoId=466722

[TURKISH]

Shutttt uppppppp, i would of loved elano here!!!!!!!!!

I new he wanted petrov but comolli and friends didnt want him. I new this was the main reason why jol wasn't getting results for the last year and a half. He wasn't buying the players he wanted. Him and arnesen were good mates who worked togeather but comolli seems very distant from jol and very baffling buys from the frenchman.

Hopefully this will be stoped in the furture as Ramos needs to be working with players who he is 100% respects and wants.

[Keanoldinho]

:mad: that article just royal pissed me off Comolli is a ****, we could be flying high in the league right now with Elano and Petrov but instead because he wanted to undermine Jol we're in the fecking relegation zone the ****y bastard:mad: He wasn't just undermining Jol with his antics he was undermining the whole club to get what he wanted the slimey little gooner prick. Players like Elano don't just grow on trees so he better get us a fecking quality creative midfield general in January if not I say **** the DOF position and just give Ramos full control.

He will work well with Ramos just like Arnesen worked well with Jol because Comolli wanted and helped get Ramos like Arnesen did with Jol. But he better start finding better calibre players than Kaboul or Zokora or Ekotto. We coulda got Elano and Petrov for what Comolli paid for Bent a player Jol never even wanted. I'm so pissed off right now I can't believe the club I've supported for over 17 years treated the best manager we've had in over a decade like that. They sided with an ex-gooner french bastard over Jol who tried to fix our weak links but Comolli wouldn't let him the ****ing scummy gooner bastard **** tottenham that's how I feel right now. I'd rather have Pleat than the gooner bastard comolli I hope he gets his ****ing face smashed in I mean what the **** was Levy thinking hiring comolli an ex-gooner bastard with strong ties to arsehole wenger I'm fecking heated THFC is a ****ing joke of a club and with people like comolli behind the scenes that's what we'll always be I pissed ffs.

[JuicE]

Fact or Fiction? More paper bullshit! Who really knows the truth, all i know is that MJ was inadequate and to blame someone else or the lack of a certain player is complete ****ing crap.

Sour grapes?

[Keanoldinho]

Fact or Fiction? More paper bullshit! Who really knows the truth, all i know is that MJ was inadequate and to blame someone else or the lack of a certain player is complete ****ing crap.

Sour grapes?


they got direct quotes from Jol himself so i very much doubt it's fiction ya thick bastard

[JuicE]

they got direct quotes from Jol himself so i very much doubt it's fiction ya thick bastard

Still sour grapes and buck passing though you ****ing retard!

[berbzy 'G']

Well I wouldn't say said no to them 2... But Elano wouldn't have got 1st team play alot, Cos Jol would still proberbly ply Jenas and Zokora in midfield... But since he has plyed first team at Man City, He's become a long-range shot King... It's a let down really :(

[mjbmedia]

course its true, we know he was looking for a leftie hence being seriously linked with Downing and Petrov who Berbs had told to come to Spurs but was deemed to old for us (not the wages issue) and its no surprise that he never wanted to play the players Comolli brought in , look at the facts all the unbelievers, smell the coffee, put down the lagers, youve been ****ed you dumb ****s and you all had your heads so far up your own ****ing smelly arses you couldnt even see it, ******s.

Commolli worked with Wenger who is a developer of young raw talent. Jol isnt yet still had those type of players thrust onto him when he works better with developed players.

Theres gonna be more of this dirt being dished and Commolli will end up being very 'embarrassed by Jols sacking' .

Having said that Ramos can take us further but i dont buy this shit that he has to rebuild etc , its merely a bit of confidence lacking due to the shit thats gone on these last three months

[Spur]

Wouldn't take that as gospel at all.

It just so happens Jol wanted the two best signings of the summer...? Neither would have joined anyway - as Petrov proved in joining City over us.

Your getting pissed off for no reason.

[JuicE]

course its true, we know he was looking for a leftie hence being seriously linked with Downing and Petrov who Berbs had told to come to Spurs but was deemed to old for us (not the wages issue) and its no surprise that he never wanted to play the players Comolli brought in , look at the facts all the unbelievers, smell the coffee, put down the lagers, youve been ****ed you dumb ****s and you all had your heads so far up your own ****ing smelly arses you couldnt even see it, ******s.

Commolli worked with Wenger who is a developer of young raw talent. Jol isnt yet still had those type of players thrust onto him when he works better with developed players.

Theres gonna be more of this dirt being dished and Commolli will end up being very 'embarrassed by Jols sacking' .

Having said that Ramos can take us further but i dont buy this shit that he has to rebuild etc , its merely a bit of confidence lacking due to the shit thats gone on these last three months


There seems to be lot's of name calling going on! Maybe because its a computer forum and not face to face with someone you seem to thinks it's alright to call people ******s and thick bastards but grow up FFS. You only make yourselves out to be ******s at the end of the day.

[neilmcnab]

so u guys still think jol is a good, if not top coach,

lets see his next appointment and see if he can get that team to pass the ball,

the spurs job was too big for martin jol, nice guy but not a top manager or coach, as we can see

over 3 yrs at spurs he never beat the top 4-8 teams,

regularly struggled against b,burn, bolton, villa newcastle, and they aint the top lot

the buck stops with the manager for me, and jol didnt convince me he could get the players to gel, or infact pass the ball to each other,

he had good passers, tom, didier,steed, they were good passers at previos clubs, what did jol develop them into,

and watch when defoe goes to a proper manager, then we,ll see him fly,

for me 3yrs and they still dont want the ball, to feet, actually spurs players treat the football like a hot potatoe, no 1 wants it except kaboul, and keane.

mark hughes gets all his players to want the ball as does villa, etc,

PLUS DO YOU THINK JOL COULD DO A GOOD A JOB AT VILLA, CITY, B,BURN ETC, AS THE MANAGERS IN CHARGE OF THE RESPECTIVE TEAMS NOW????

[Gino Ginelli]

Hang on. We beat Chelsea, and yeah we struggled against top 8 opposition, but that's because they're top 8 in the best domestic league in the world. Worth noting that they struggled against us as well.

The club and the team lost their way this season, and the change was necessary to get us back on track. But Jol did get us playing high octane stuff, and gave the team a great belief and teamspirit.

I'm willing to believe that Jol was stiffed by Comolli in players that were bought for him. I've said it before and I'll say it again Jol was on record last season and the season before that as saying that he wanted Petrov, MGP or Downing. What did he get? Carrick sold, Zokora and Bent. Granted we also got Bale and Chimbonda.

Am I incorrect in thinking that berbatov is quoted as having said that it was Jol who came to see him and convince him to come to the Lane?

[peterc]

Still sour grapes and buck passing though you ****ing retard!

Juice, I suggest you go back to nursery and learn how to start growing up.

[peterc]

There seems to be lot's of name calling going on! Maybe because its a computer forum and not face to face with someone you seem to thinks it's alright to call people ******s and thick bastards but grow up FFS. You only make yourselves out to be ******s at the end of the day.

And who is calling the kettle black?????

[peterc]

http://www.teamtalk.com/football/sto...842387,00.html

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage...icle417262.ece

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,195...842453,00.html



More quotes and reports, MJB, GS and some of us who always suspected something were name called, hope this will teach some of you a lesson to get your facts right prior accusing others of wrong information or being ridiculed for having different opinions.

[JuicE]

Juice, I suggest you go back to nursery and learn how to start growing up.

Peterc , i suggest you shut your big fat ****ing gob and keep your moronic opinions to yourself! Prat!

[JuicE]

http://www.teamtalk.com/football/sto...842387,00.html

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage...icle417262.ece

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,195...842453,00.html



More quotes and reports, MJB, GS and some of us who always suspected something were name called, hope this will teach some of you a lesson to get your facts right prior accusing others of wrong information or being ridiculed for having different opinions.

This must all prove that you were right! MJ was the best manager to ever walk the earth. We were wrong, you were right, he was GOD, we are humbled, your a cretin!

[jrio]

Wouldn't take that as gospel at all.

It just so happens Jol wanted the two best signings of the summer...? Neither would have joined anyway - as Petrov proved in joining City over us.

Your getting pissed off for no reason.

I expect Elano's also on 60k a week.

[olly27]

I have always had my doubts about Comilli and think he comes across quite slimey to be honest. I have no doubt that we have ended up with a more unbalanced squad as a result of Comolli's influence. Even conceding that Jol and Comolli did not see eye to eye it does not take away from inexplicable decisions Jol has made on a reguglar basis of late. Jol should still of been able to get more out the players he had at his disposal. To be honest I would love to see the DOF position eradicated completely...but thats not going to happen.

[Keanoldinho]

Wouldn't take that as gospel at all.

It just so happens Jol wanted the two best signings of the summer...? Neither would have joined anyway - as Petrov proved in joining City over us.

Your getting pissed off for no reason.


So you think all them quotes from Jol are made up or do you think Jol is lying. We already know he wanted Petrov and I don't see Jol as someone who'd make up bullshit lies.

[Keanoldinho]

Well I wouldn't say said no to them 2... But Elano wouldn't have got 1st team play alot, Cos Jol would still proberbly ply Jenas and Zokora in midfield... But since he has plyed first team at Man City, He's become a long-range shot King... It's a let down really :(


Elano woulda walked into the starting 11 here. He was already a starter for the Brazil national team before City bought him. Dunga said he was building the new look Brazil team around Elano because he gets stuck in and has bags of skill.

[Gino Ginelli]

So you think all them quotes from Jol are made up or do you think Jol is lying. We already know he wanted Petrov and I don't see Jol as someone who'd make up bullshit lies.

Agree with this. But I think the reality is that in Petrov's case, even if we had pursued him with at least some interest, he would have still joined Man City, as they offered him £60k p/w and we had/would have offered around £30k.

I can't comment on Elano as I hadn't heard of him until he joined Citeh.

Digressing, but how many wish Bent had taken the money offered by West Ham now? Would've saved a few headaches I reckon.

[shakey18]

I still think that Bent was bought as an eventual replacement for Berbatov, with the board sweating over whether Dimi would stay or go.As for the quotes attributed to Jol, he could well have said them, but i'd believe it more if i heard him say it himself in an interview.We all know what a scurrilous bunch of wankbags the press are.

[Gino Ginelli]

scurrilous bunch of wankbags

:D That made me laugh!

[spurs61]

I can't quite see what the debate is here? We all know that Commolli has been signing players on the board's instruction (ie young players with potential who we can pick up and sell on in a few years for profit) as opposed to Jol's desire to sign experienced professionals to move the team forward rather than the balance sheet.

Having said that, if Jol was that unhappy with the situation why did he stay for three years? Surely if he had players forced on him he would feel his situation was untenable. I find it hard to believe that the club would sanction the purchase of £40 mil of players whom the manager did not at least tacitally approve of.

Sure there are some players such as Boateng who were obviously not wanted by Jol (with good reason) but I happen to know that he did approve of Bent when consulted as well as BAE, Kaboul (who he was really happy about) and Zokora. He was also the one who insisted on signing Danny Murphy so it's not as though he's a brilliant judge of player is it? He was very happy to take Chimbonda and Berbatov even though they were both signed by Commolli.

This is in no way a defence of Commolli or the board, I just think that both sides of the story need to be heard. Jol has spent the past year using the press to his advantage in undermining the board and Commlli, what goes around comes around, he should learn not to get into battles he cann't possibly win.

[dommo]

I just think that Comoli decides who comes and goes and that's not right... Bent 16 mill yet Jol had no interest in playing him... It's crazy.... Obviously we wanted Petrov but he went to city, wages probably did have a big factor in this but Spurs have no interest in buying players older than 25. Because the sell on value reduces.... we can't keep buying just youth with potential and sell on profitability... we need some quality experienced players to help the younger players progress. Davids for example has been missed and not replaced..

WE also can't expect to be a top 4 club when we are not willing to pay top 4 wages......

[peterc]

Peterc , i suggest you shut your big fat ****ing gob and keep your moronic opinions to yourself! Prat!

More proof of your immaturity, you will struggle at the nurseries:D

[peterc]

This must all prove that you were right! MJ was the best manager to ever walk the earth. We were wrong, you were right, he was GOD, we are humbled, your a cretin!

More name calling, Juice. Try and grow up.:eek:

[SurreySpur]

I can't quite see what the debate is here? We all know that Commolli has been signing players on the board's instruction (ie young players with potential who we can pick up and sell on in a few years for profit) as opposed to Jol's desire to sign experienced professionals to move the team forward rather than the balance sheet.

Having said that, if Jol was that unhappy with the situation why did he stay for three years? Surely if he had players forced on him he would feel his situation was untenable. I find it hard to believe that the club would sanction the purchase of £40 mil of players whom the manager did not at least tacitally approve of.

Sure there are some players such as Boateng who were obviously not wanted by Jol (with good reason) but I happen to know that he did approve of Bent when consulted as well as BAE, Kaboul (who he was really happy about) and Zokora. He was also the one who insisted on signing Danny Murphy so it's not as though he's a brilliant judge of player is it? He was very happy to take Chimbonda and Berbatov even though they were both signed by Commolli.

This is in no way a defence of Commolli or the board, I just think that both sides of the story need to be heard. Jol has spent the past year using the press to his advantage in undermining the board and Commlli, what goes around comes around, he should learn not to get into battles he cann't possibly win.


Good post Spurs61, cant argue with any of that.

[olly27]

I can't quite see what the debate is here? We all know that Commolli has been signing players on the board's instruction (ie young players with potential who we can pick up and sell on in a few years for profit) as opposed to Jol's desire to sign experienced professionals to move the team forward rather than the balance sheet.

Having said that, if Jol was that unhappy with the situation why did he stay for three years? Surely if he had players forced on him he would feel his situation was untenable. I find it hard to believe that the club would sanction the purchase of £40 mil of players whom the manager did not at least tacitally approve of.

Sure there are some players such as Boateng who were obviously not wanted by Jol (with good reason) but I happen to know that he did approve of Bent when consulted as well as BAE, Kaboul (who he was really happy about) and Zokora. He was also the one who insisted on signing Danny Murphy so it's not as though he's a brilliant judge of player is it? He was very happy to take Chimbonda and Berbatov even though they were both signed by Commolli.

This is in no way a defence of Commolli or the board, I just think that both sides of the story need to be heard. Jol has spent the past year using the press to his advantage in undermining the board and Commlli, what goes around comes around, he should learn not to get into battles he cann't possibly win.

Interesting post and in the main I agree. But I can see what the debate is here...will business always come before success on the pitch..and I mean buying young bright players as investments..although I think this is a good policy from a financial point of view and brings a certain amount of security and appreciation (hopefully) to the club. On the other hand it wasn't hard to work out what the problem was last season...conceding goals..bringing in expercienced defenders was glaringly obvious with regards to improving the team. Stevie Wonder could have improved this sqaud over the summer better with 40 million! It seems to me that the board and Comolli were trying to achieve both things, and naievly, in my opinion..i.e.break into the top four without altering their buying policy...it was never going to happen...trying to be too shrewd has bit them on the ass..simple as that. There needed to be a healthy balance between youth and experience for progression, over the last two seasons, to have been feasible. Of course Jols shortcomings coupled with a strained relationship with Comolli has combined very effectively with all of this - hence our position at the moment.

[mjbmedia]

There seems to be lot's of name calling going on! Maybe because its a computer forum and not face to face with someone you seem to thinks it's alright to call people ******s and thick bastards but grow up FFS. You only make yourselves out to be ******s at the end of the day.
if i may quote form your earlier post

''Still sour grapes and buck passing though you ****ing retard!''

nothing like a bit of hypocritical bullshit from an Aussie is there :D

[Spur]

Agree S61, there is nothing to debate hence my line 'you are getting pissed off for no reason'.

If you want to talk about players not joining then fine, but do not include Elano, Petrov and Downing in that list. Downing was foiled by Levy - not Comolli or Frank or Jol, by Levy for wanting to pay money over months.

Elano and Petrov along with Duff have gone to a Club for money who we know we wanted (in Petrov and Duff's cases a certainty at least).

Jol is saying he didn't want Kaboul is bollocks, he was screaming for a CB and always moaning about King being absent.

On the other side as S61 says Comolli and Arnesen have tried implementing the Ajax strategy - something FA said from day one, in getting players in with big sell on potential. It's not something anyone can moan about as we have been very profitable in the transfer market with poor players.

Comolli still has alot to prove in terms of signing the right players, but like he says also his job is to provide for the future and i'd go so far as to say not one person on this board can say he is failing in that. In a few years then question it but right now you cannot.

Again your looking for a scapegoat, last week it was Paul Kemsley and this week it is Damien Comolli. At the end of the day if Jol was so great why did he leave us in the relegation team with a team that got 5th last year? You cannot blame that on signings unless you dare say that 12 or 13 other teams bolstered their squads to stronger than ours this last window....

Great PR and propganda for MJ this though - he wanted the best two signings of the summer in Elano and Petrov (whom as we've said didn't want to join anyway) and didn't want two Spurs flops in Kaboul and Bent. As much as I like MJ his comments today are just plain ludicrous. They really don't make him look good.

[jrio]

Jol is saying he didn't want Kaboul is bollocks, he was screaming for a CB and always moaning about King being absent.
Bearing in mind King's situation, and Gardner's propensity for injuries, he might have been thinking that he didn't want all his eggs in one basket with Kaboul. The latest news is that the quotes were in the article from Holland, but not made by Jol, and may be journalistic embellishments.

More worrying is how Rocha's need for an operation went undiagnosed until a month into the season and he's out for 10 weeks, leaving us with just 2 CBs, one young and completely new to the league.

On the other side as S61 says Comolli and Arnesen have tried implementing the Ajax strategy - something FA said from day one, in getting players in with big sell on potential. It's not something anyone can moan about as we have been very profitable in the transfer market with poor players.
Great, but unduly focusing on that gives us a club that trades very profitably in players and achieves very little success.

Comolli still has alot to prove in terms of signing the right players, but like he says also his job is to provide for the future and i'd go so far as to say not one person on this board can say he is failing in that. In a few years then question it but right now you cannot.

Not one can says he's succeeding either. I'd be less concerned if we hadn't had all that propaganda earlier in the season about how he'd recruited nearly half the Arsenal squad, something quickly demolished by sources there. Great job he's got there but if he's got the power to control signings, then it should be to make sure that the squad isn't unbalanced and has the requisite level of experience. Noticeably under FA the latter came in when we signed players like Davids and Naybet. Those sort of signings have been conspicuously absent under DC.

[shakey18]

Jol and his representatives have denied the claims.Like i said, scurrilous wankbags.

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11661_2844075,00.html

[Spur]

Great, but unduly focusing on that gives us a club that trades very profitably in players and achieves very little success.

Of course when I say the Ajax model I mean success whilst making bundles! It was one of the first things Frank said as he walked in the door.

Not one can says he's succeeding either. I'd be less concerned if we hadn't had all that propaganda earlier in the season about how he'd recruited nearly half the Arsenal squad, something quickly demolished by sources there. Great job he's got there but if he's got the power to control signings, then it should be to make sure that the squad isn't unbalanced and has the requisite level of experience. Noticeably under FA the latter came in when we signed players like Davids and Naybet. Those sort of signings have been conspicuously absent under DC.

Of course i'm not trying to imply we can. All I was saying was what he said only the other day, that alot of his work will be seen in years to come. I don't believe it is 60% though, like he said. Maybe he has bought 60% of players for the future, but that doesn't mean that his work is 60% based on the future. He like the management at the Club are held responsible for the team right now.

As for the players he has signed they have not all been great but they have not all been poor. A funny game some supporters seem to play is guess what signing was DC or MJ's, remarkably those pro-Jol pick out all the best signings and give DC the crap ones whilst those anti-Jol give DC the credit for the good ones and MJ the crap ones.

I think we will never get to the bottom of it and to be fair I don't care. In time we will see whether or not DC works and how well he works. It's not something anyone can judge right now and there is no point in trying.

As it goes people use Adel and Boateng in attacking DC, however you could argue he clearly saw something wrong in the midfield which IS there because right now the central midfielders ARE ABSOLUTELY PANTS. How anyone can turn around to me and say that either Zokora or Jenas are good players is beyond me.

You have to wonder just how much politics was taking the driving seat at the club. I firmly believe DC undermind Jol so much on purpose as to help him toward failure, but the signings he brought in are not wholely to blame for this. DC wanted his own man in the seat as did FA. They both went about the same way in getting rid. People can blame DC all they want, but they are only looking for a scapegoat in MJ's departure because they love him so.

Now this is the part where I cover my own back in saying Jol was/is a top bloke in my eyes. His treating was appalling but his sacking was not. He talked up his team as the 5th best in the land and so why are we in the relegation zone?

More than that out of 14 games this season he won a total of 3, one against Derby, one in the cup against Boro, and one in the UEFA against a bunch of plumbers we couldn't even beat twice. There is clearly something wrong there, and having those issues been arouind for a long time it was clear IMO a change was needed in this trigger happy world or we would fall further behind other clubs who are in stronger positions elsewhere - including coaching.

DC's role can be scrutinised but its a role Jol himself has always been in, i'm led to believe that at least. This is where people start believing things that have apparently been said like Jol saying he would never work in a DoF structure again - despite throughout his career always working within one. I found that strange to say the least.

There will be alot of kiss and tell stories coming up, maybe more will come to light once players leave the Club. No doubt once Berba leaves someone will want to get to the bottom of all his goings on.

Not much else to say. Rant over.

[Spur]

Jol and his representatives have denied the claims.Like i said, scurrilous wankbags.

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11661_2844075,00.html

I'm glad it's dinner time. Some people have to go back and eat their words.

All this for nothing!

Nice one Shakey.

[jrio]

DC's role can be scrutinised but its a role Jol himself has always been in, i'm led to believe that at least. This is where people start believing things that have apparently been said like Jol saying he would never work in a DoF structure again - despite throughout his career always working within one. I found that strange to say the least.

More likely Jol wouldn't work under a DOF that didn't believe in him. In the 2 jobs he's closely linked with - PSV and Ajax - he'd have that, and most of the big clubs on the continent.

[SurreySpur]

More likely Jol wouldn't work under a DOF that didn't believe in him. In the 2 jobs he's closely linked with - PSV and Ajax - he'd have that, and most of the big clubs on the continent.

Yep, spot on Jrio

[peterc]

I'm glad it's dinner time. Some people have to go back and eat their words.

All this for nothing!

Nice one Shakey.

He might not have stated those quotes, however, there is no proof that was or wasn't the case, so maybe we will not have to eat our own words.:rolleyes:

[Keanoldinho]

Ah well **** it my bad Juice for calling you a thick bastard and winding you up. Was well pissed off after reading that but now Jol has come out and denied the reports.

Anyway I swear at everyone from time to time I'm really just taking the piss, looking for a reaction and winding people up for a laugh when I'm bored no hard feeling same goes for everyone I've offended on here by swearing at them in posts. Just talking shit and taking the piss that's all ya bunch of sad ******s.:D :p

[choda]

I'm glad it's dinner time. Some people have to go back and eat their words.

All this for nothing!

Nice one Shakey.

Particularly mjb, who started having a go at people on here, even at a stage where it was still nowhere near black and white, even if Jol had said those things. :rolleyes:

Although it would certainly have altered the facts we would have to go on and throw the whole lot of new questions to light.

But I don't remember anybody saying that they knew the truth about it all, but just state what they think to be true, which is all any of us is doing.

I'd love to know the exact truth of it all. I'd say it's quite complicated actually, and I highly doubt that MJ would come out looking any better. And of course his tactical and coaching errors will always remain whatever.

I'd say if any thwarting was going on it was more to do with the clubs frugal policy with buying and wages that caused a problem rather than Commoli. But that's our policy and that's why we have done well in recent seasons. It was a combination of good networking, buying talent in bulk, a decent coach and creating profitability for future progress. It wasn't so long ago that the board were commended for this and will be again when the team starts to do well again.

I mean if Mj really wanted another experienced cb he only had to ask for Distin. Free transfer, perfect for our policies, wages must be reasonable if he's at pompey.

I think there's a hell of a lot of scapegoating going on instead of adherence to what we know. We know Jol failed tactically, abysmally so. Defenders dropping off and not marking strikers until they get the ball etc. is pure tactics, it has nothing to do with transfers or even unrest upstairs.

Most will also concede that we have a very good squad.

I'm not saying Commoli rated Jol and didn't advise his removal, but I for one wouldn't blame him for that. He wants to be part of a successful operation and Jol didn't have the credentials to make us any better this year. That was clear from day one, where he made the same errors as the start of last year.

But creating a relegation situation by signing players over his head for millions of pounds, just sounds all so fanciful and biblical. Do people really think that Commolli would have been able to get Levy to sanction his personal plot to remove Jol by signing millions of pounds worth of players Jol didn't want or any other manager that may come in may or may not have wanted? Not to mention sanction creating such instability as to create horrible results to make Jol's postion untenable and have himself under severe pressure from ENIC. Do you realise how ridiculous all of this sounds?

Could it be true that Commolli is allowed to sign any under 20's and that's where all the chinese whispers started?

The truth is not something I know for a fact, but I see a lot of scapegoating and speculation going on being treated like fact, when it just isn't, certainly not yet.

As people have said, the time to judge Commolli will probably be over the next few years, and even then he is supposed to have equal responsibilty with the manager for senior signings and possibly most of the repsonsibilty for the signing of prospects.

And here's another thing to ponder: When Jol left he said that the people at the club treated him well. That doesn't sound like a man who was knifed in the back. True, he could have been sacked in a better, more dignified way but we all say that, Jol and Levy have said that too.

[mjbmedia]

of course hes denied it, he hasnt been paid off yet :rolleyes:

[choda]

of course hes denied it, he hasnt been paid off yet :rolleyes:

Well, we'll find out when he's paid then. And I don't see how that would matter in the meantime anyway. He was sacked, it wasn't a mutual agreement with stipulatons in exchange for compensation.

[jrio]

I mean if Mj really wanted another experienced cb he only had to ask for Distin. Free transfer, perfect for our policies, wages must be reasonable if he's at pompey.
40k a week. 10k more than we offered a player, Petrov, who is 2 years younger than him.


But creating a relegation situation by signing players over his head for millions of pounds, just sounds all so fanciful and biblical. Do people really think that Commolli would have been able to get Levy to sanction his personal plot to remove Jol by signing millions of pounds worth of players Jol didn't want or any other manager that may come in may or may not have wanted? Not to mention sanction creating such instability as to create horrible results to make Jol's postion untenable and have himself under severe pressure from ENIC. Do you realise how ridiculous all of this sounds?
That isn't how the situation occurs. To understand what happens you have to look at why Levy appointed FA. FA was very successful and respected in that role at PSV, bringing in players from across the world(Ronaldo being the biggest), and Levy wanted that transplanted to Spurs. When FA left he seemingly chose DC because the advice he was given, and the view he took, was that he had similar qualities to FA, and had been a major influence in their very successful acquisition of young, talented players from Europe. I find myself agreeing with Dragon1 on COYS, who described him as very good at his job, but arrogant and rates himself as much better than he is. Guaranteed to be qualities that wouldn't establish a solid basis for working closely with Jol. Thus, whenever Jol protests at the unsuitability of player options given to him, DC convinces himself and Levy that Jol is just an average manager at best, and usually over-ride his objections. I'd imagine the lean spells last season, and failure to beat Arsenal and Chelsea in cups, strengthened that belief. In his interviews you could see Jol thought he'd over-achieved with 2 5th places, whilst the top management thought the reverse.

I don't imagine that DC backed signing all these players because he thought we'd end up where we are now. In his mind Jol was usually wrong. DC rates all these players, and foresaw in his own mind that we'd progress against Jol's objections, and it would show how right DC was to ignore them. He probably doubted Jol would do much better than last season and would point to his coaching limitations, given that he'd been given 40m extra of top quality players.

And here's another thing to ponder: When Jol left he said that the people at the club treated him well. That doesn't sound like a man who was knifed in the back. True, he could have been sacked in a better, more dignified way but we all say that that, Jol and Levy have said that too.
When you get turfed out that's usually some sort of tacit agreement that you don't start industrial mud-slinging. One example of when you get to find out some facts is Duncan Fletcher's new book on the Ashes debacle. Yes, it's self-serving but several months after it finished we find out Flintoff was turning up drunk for practice. Give it a year and we'll get Jol's "My Spurs Years" detailing everything he was unhappy with.

[TURKISH]

I believe if arnesen was DOF we would of got most of the players jol wanted. Maybe not the players that has been listed here but i get the impression jol didn't want the players that have been brought since comolli has come in.

Just my instinct but i can't see how jol who manages a team with now left winger, would not buy one in the window? Why buy bent for 16million when defoe, berby and keano was shit hot last year? It doesn't make sense unless you look at everything as a profit. Maybe we brought in bent as berby is going the end of this year?

As long as we have KEANO and JD im not bothered theres other great target men out there that will want to play for the shirt.

[choda]

40k a week. 10k more than we offered a player, Petrov, who is 2 years younger than him.

That isn't how the situation occurs. To understand what happens you have to look at why Levy appointed FA. FA was very successful and respected in that role at PSV, bringing in players from across the world(Ronaldo being the biggest), and Levy wanted that transplanted to Spurs. When FA left he seemingly chose DC because the advice he was given, and the view he took, was that he had similar qualities to FA, and had been a major influence in their very successful acquisition of young, talented players from Europe. I find myself agreeing with Dragon1 on COYS, who described him as very good at his job, but arrogant and rates himself as much better than he is. Guaranteed to be qualities that wouldn't establish a solid basis for working closely with Jol. Thus, whenever Jol protests at the unsuitability of player options given to him, DC convinces himself and Levy that Jol is just an average manager at best, and usually over-ride his objections. I'd imagine the lean spells last season, and failure to beat Arsenal and Chelsea in cups, strengthened that belief. In his interviews you could see Jol thought he'd over-achieved with 2 5th places, whilst the top management thought the reverse.

I don't imagine that DC backed signing all these players because he thought we'd end up where we are now. In his mind Jol was usually wrong. DC rates all these players, and foresaw in his own mind that we'd progress against Jol's objections, and it would show how right DC was to ignore them. He probably doubted Jol would do much better than last season and would point to his coaching limitations, given that he'd been given 40m extra of top quality players.

Okay, I was going a bit far, but some of the comments in the spurs community are incredulous and totally irrational. That was why I responded like that.

You described a conceivable manner that it could have happened, but still doesn't sound like to me like it could have happened that way. If it did it would go against ever principle of efficiency that a dof is supposed to bring and that they have all stated. It would also go against every quote we have from all parties involved.

I'm not saying that what you are saying isn't possible, but I don't think that's how it happened.


When you get turfed out that's usually some sort of tacit agreement that you don't start industrial mud-slinging. One example of when you get to find out some facts is Duncan Fletcher's new book on the Ashes debacle. Yes, it's self-serving but several months after it finished we find out Flintoff was turning up drunk for practice. Give it a year and we'll get Jol's "My Spurs Years" detailing everything he was unhappy with.

Yes, but he didn't have to say that, did he? He could have said 'no comment' or 'I don't want to talk about it' or the like. That's what people say when they are pissed off, but for legal or personal reasons choose not to say anything. What they don't do is say they were treated well, do they?

[choda]

I believe if arnesen was DOF we would of got most of the players jol wanted. Maybe not the players that has been listed here but i get the impression jol didn't want the players that have been brought since comolli has come in.

Just my instinct but i can't see how jol who manages a team with now left winger, would not buy one in the window? Why buy bent for 16million when defoe, berby and keano was shit hot last year? It doesn't make sense unless you look at everything as a profit. Maybe we brought in bent as berby is going the end of this year?

As long as we have KEANO and JD im not bothered theres other great target men out there that will want to play for the shirt.

I can easily see how that could happen. He wasn't desperate for one as far as I could see. He repeatedly played only one wide perosn anyway or NONE, even when he has a few available.

[jrio]

Yes, but he didn't have to say that, did he? He could have said 'no comment' or 'I don't want to talk about it' or the like. That's what people say when they are pissed off, but for legal or personal reasons choose not to say anything. What they don't do is say they were treated well, do they?

But he wasn't treated well, was he? However, for 5.2m you'll find an awful lot of people will bite their tongue, smile and find some generous words to say.

[TURKISH]

I can easily see how that could happen. He wasn't desperate for one as far as I could see. He repeatedly played only one wide perosn anyway or NONE, even when he has a few available.

Yer i can see your point but jol seemed to only play players who he trusts. It doesnt matter what position you play or how good you perform if jol liked you, then you pretty much played.

Jol should of been more bold and played some of the younger lads on the wings but jol didn't believe they were gonna do anything, but i would bet my house on it that jol wanted players we go on about but comolli and friends didn't want them.

I think he was desperate for a left winger do you remember jol coming out and saying he wanted downing on motd? Now that was desperate! :p

[TURKISH]

But he wasn't treated well, was he? However, for 5.2m you'll find an awful lot of people will bite their tongue, smile and find some generous words to say.

Maybe jol is just being the bigger man and thinking why bother? Of course jol has been given alot of money and been told to keep his mouth shut, your right jrio. One day this will all be out in the open and i for one would believe jol.

[choda]

But he wasn't treated well, was he? However, for 5.2m you'll find an awful lot of people will bite their tongue, smile and find some generous words to say.

No, he stated his displeasure with the manner of the sacking and that, but he said that he was treated well on a personal level and at his job.

[jrio]

No, he stated his displeasure with the manner of the sacking and that, but he said that he was treated well on a personal level and at his job.
I'd hope that all employees at the club are treated with respect and courtesy, but at a professional level Jol has been treated badly. That's been outside of the sacking. In Jol's position I think I'd regard the board's conduct during the last 10 weeks as being knifed in the back, and that's how it was regarded by the vast majority of sports journalists and fans.

[choda]

I'd hope that all employees at the club are treated with respect and courtesy, but at a professional level Jol has been treated badly. That's been outside of the sacking. In Jol's position I think I'd regard the board's conduct during the last 10 weeks as being knifed in the back, and that's how it was regarded by the vast majority of sports journalists and fans.

Sure you know I agree that it was handled badly. But that's the external, we're talking about the internal.

Jol wasn't happy about it but he shrugged it off saying 'that's football, people make inquiries.'

He got on with it, and then the sacking got leaked and it was another public debacle when it should have been all private.

But that's another issue to whether he was party to the system in the correct way and whether Levy allowed him to be shafted with the signings.

You place a lot of faith in this Dragon chap, but how the hell does he know?

That's the only thing that makes me think it could be true, some of these usually reliable sources. But, I don't know, I just have a strong feeling it's not true.

[jrio]

You place a lot of faith in this Dragon chap, but how the hell does he know?

That's the only thing that makes me think it could be true, some of these usually reliable sources. But, I don't know, I just have a strong feeling it's not true.
He seems to have very strong connections to a close source, or sources, at the club.

Here's a better few for you regarding Darren Bent, from someone who has very close links to him.

On Jol: "Yes he was injured that didn't help, but, Jol wouldn't allow him a run in the side. I could tell you why, but probably best for all concerned to leave it as it is."

Is Bent excited by Ramos' appointment?: "New manager, new opportunities"[He is very excited]

On criticism of Bent at Spurs: "Darren is being asked to play as the most advanced player, and lay the ball off for Berbatov, Keane or Defoe, prob is no one is able to provide the ball for him to lay off. The service needs to improve, but no-one sees that, just he doesn't get involved, he plays to the game plan, others don't."

And: "...certainly the service has been poor and he should have been given at least 2 consecutive games with our top striker ( berbs) think we need to play better balls for him to run on to, jol's slow build up then no one with the ability to pick a pass didnt suit bents style, am hoping that ramos will have more of a one touch quick release will help DB show his worth."

I thought you would particularly agree with the last comment.

[choda]

He seems to have very strong connections to a close source, or sources, at the club.

Here's a better few for you regarding Darren Bent, from someone who has very close links to him.

On Jol: "Yes he was injured that didn't help, but, Jol wouldn't allow him a run in the side. I could tell you why, but probably best for all concerned to leave it as it is."

Is Bent excited by Ramos' appointment?: "New manager, new opportunities"[He is very excited]

On criticism of Bent at Spurs: "Darren is being asked to play as the most advanced player, and lay the ball off for Berbatov, Keane or Defoe, prob is no one is able to provide the ball for him to lay off. The service needs to improve, but no-one sees that, just he doesn't get involved, he plays to the game plan, others don't."

And: "...certainly the service has been poor and he should have been given at least 2 consecutive games with our top striker ( berbs) think we need to play better balls for him to run on to, jol's slow build up then no one with the ability to pick a pass didnt suit bents style, am hoping that ramos will have more of a one touch quick release will help DB show his worth."

I thought you would particularly agree with the last comment.

Yes, we all have our own ideas about the game and I love the players who have good movement and can go behind. I have a lot of time for Bent.

But such is the quality of Keane and Berbatov, he will have a job to get into the side. His only real chance is an injury or if Berba's poor form continues.

[choda]

I can't quite see what the debate is here? We all know that Commolli has been signing players on the board's instruction (ie young players with potential who we can pick up and sell on in a few years for profit) as opposed to Jol's desire to sign experienced professionals to move the team forward rather than the balance sheet.

Having said that, if Jol was that unhappy with the situation why did he stay for three years? Surely if he had players forced on him he would feel his situation was untenable. I find it hard to believe that the club would sanction the purchase of £40 mil of players whom the manager did not at least tacitally approve of.

Sure there are some players such as Boateng who were obviously not wanted by Jol (with good reason) but I happen to know that he did approve of Bent when consulted as well as BAE, Kaboul (who he was really happy about) and Zokora. He was also the one who insisted on signing Danny Murphy so it's not as though he's a brilliant judge of player is it? He was very happy to take Chimbonda and Berbatov even though they were both signed by Commolli.

This is in no way a defence of Commolli or the board, I just think that both sides of the story need to be heard. Jol has spent the past year using the press to his advantage in undermining the board and Commlli, what goes around comes around, he should learn not to get into battles he cann't possibly win.

This is what I think is most likely from the facts that we have and his sources are very good.

[JuicE]

if i may quote form your earlier post

''Still sour grapes and buck passing though you ****ing retard!''

nothing like a bit of hypocritical bullshit from an Aussie is there :D

That was merely my response to someone calling me a "Thick Bastard". Where's the hypocracy?

[JuicE]

He might not have stated those quotes, however, there is no proof that was or wasn't the case, so maybe we will not have to eat our own words.:rolleyes:

We await your apology then PeterC! You certainly wasted no time in trying to ram things down throats.

[JuicE]

Ah well **** it my bad Juice for calling you a thick bastard and winding you up. Was well pissed off after reading that but now Jol has come out and denied the reports.

Anyway I swear at everyone from time to time I'm really just taking the piss, looking for a reaction and winding people up for a laugh when I'm bored no hard feeling same goes for everyone I've offended on here by swearing at them in posts. Just talking shit and taking the piss that's all ya bunch of sad ******s.:D :p

NO Worries Keanoldinho! Forgotten.

Peterc on the other hand can go **** himself!

[mjbmedia]

That was merely my response to someone calling me a "Thick Bastard". Where's the hypocracy?
well you are a thick bastard aint ya? ;)

i mean you turn down the chance to live in the UK and instead go to the beach every weekend and work on your tan and have an outdoor barbie for Xmas dinner and...........................................hang on a minute, who's the thick bastard again??


Fecking red tape and my bird getting a job out there are stopping me joining you :(

[mjbmedia]

alright Choda etc im sorry i effed and blinded at people, if you took offence well im just like that aint i now. but my points are valid even if my language is coarse. :D
The truth is out there, and it aint pretty for Spurs' future. And i dont mean the geezer on this forum!!

[JuicE]

well you are a thick bastard aint ya? ;)

i mean you turn down the chance to live in the UK and instead go to the beach every weekend and work on your tan and have an outdoor barbie for Xmas dinner and...........................................hang on a minute, who's the thick bastard again??


Fecking red tape and my bird getting a job out there are stopping me joining you :(

Look! i can take a joke and an insult, no problem. I can understand most people on here and the frustration and to be honest i even have a tad respect for Choda. I get on with most and see there arguments. I don't take offence and hope others aren't offended by my comments. What seems to be happening however is a divide with the Pro MJ and the anti-MJ.
Let's forget and forgive, move on and ban Peterc from the ****ing forum ASAP.

Then we'll all be happy! :D

MJbmedia, i'll put some coldies by for ya! ;)

[SurreySpur]

Look! i can take a joke and an insult, no problem. I can understand most people on here and the frustration and to be honest i even have a tad respect for Choda. I get on with most and see there arguments. I don't take offence and hope others aren't offended by my comments. What seems to be happening however is a divide with the Pro MJ and the anti-MJ.
Let's forget and forgive, move on and ban Peterc from the ****ing forum ASAP.
Then we'll all be happy! :D

MJbmedia, i'll put some coldies by for ya! ;)


I'll drink to that

[peterc]

Let's forget and forgive, move on and ban Peterc from the ****ing forum ASAP.
Ban someone who has not name called as much as others, used bad language not much as others and has never used any racist remarks, not like others. That really makes sense.:rolleyes:

[JuicE]

I'll drink to that

Chink, chink Jimmy! ;)

[JuicE]

Let's forget and forgive, move on and ban Peterc from the ****ing forum ASAP.
Ban someone who has not name called as much as others, used bad language not much as others and has never used any racist remarks, not like others. That really makes sense.:rolleyes:

BAD LANGUAGE! Everything you say is bad ****ing language! :eek:

[peterc]

BAD LANGUAGE! Everything you say is bad ****ing language! :eek:

Sorry, my mistake for not explaining myself better to a CRETIN, bad = foul.:rolleyes:

[JuicE]

Sorry, my mistake for not explaining myself better to a CRETIN, bad = foul.:rolleyes:

LOL! Pathetic. LMFAO! You are a sad little cretin.

[peterc]

LOL! Pathetic. LMFAO! You are a sad little cretin.

Sad to see that you are still struggling at the nursery stage, don't worry , hopefully by time, you might learn how to discuss and give opinions in a proper and educated manner.:rolleyes:

[JuicE]

Sad to see that you are still struggling at the nursery stage, don't worry , hopefully by time, you might learn how to discuss and give opinions in a proper and educated manner.:rolleyes:

Go away you silly little man!

[peterc]

Go away you silly little man!

Shows what you really are Juice, an uneducated, immature little boy.:rolleyes:

[JuicE]

Shows what you really are Juice, an uneducated, immature little boy.:rolleyes:

You really are RickyH aren't you? :mad:

[peterc]

You really are RickyH aren't you? :mad:

You should know the answer, cos it's either you or you both have the same level of maturity, basically none.:rolleyes:

[choda]

alright Choda etc im sorry i effed and blinded at people, if you took offence well im just like that aint i now. but my points are valid even if my language is coarse. :D
The truth is out there, and it aint pretty for Spurs' future. And i dont mean the geezer on this forum!!

I didn't take any offense. I just thought you were being a jackass. :D

[jrio]

I didn't take any offense. I just thought you were being a jackass. :D

eeyore, eeyore, eeyore to know better. :D

[Defoe8]

:mad: that article just royal pissed me off Comolli is a ****, we could be flying high in the league right now with Elano and Petrov but instead because he wanted to undermine Jol we're in the fecking relegation zone the ****y bastard:mad: He wasn't just undermining Jol with his antics he was undermining the whole club to get what he wanted the slimey little gooner prick. Players like Elano don't just grow on trees so he better get us a fecking quality creative midfield general in January if not I say **** the DOF position and just give Ramos full control.

He will work well with Ramos just like Arnesen worked well with Jol because Comolli wanted and helped get Ramos like Arnesen did with Jol. But he better start finding better calibre players than Kaboul or Zokora or Ekotto. We coulda got Elano and Petrov for what Comolli paid for Bent a player Jol never even wanted. I'm so pissed off right now I can't believe the club I've supported for over 17 years treated the best manager we've had in over a decade like that. They sided with an ex-gooner french bastard over Jol who tried to fix our weak links but Comolli wouldn't let him the ****ing scummy gooner bastard **** tottenham that's how I feel right now. I'd rather have Pleat than the gooner bastard comolli I hope he gets his ****ing face smashed in I mean what the **** was Levy thinking hiring comolli an ex-gooner bastard with strong ties to arsehole wenger I'm fecking heated THFC is a ****ing joke of a club and with people like comolli behind the scenes that's what we'll always be I pissed ffs.

My thoughts exactly!!

Commolli should be booted out of the club

[JuicE]

My thoughts exactly!!

Commolli should be booted out of the club

Please read the whole thread first!