Match Thread: Middlesbrough vs Tottenham Hotspur

[Neil_Vaughan]

Talk about the game in here before, during and after.

[SurreySpur]

This game has draw written all over it.....but because my prediction have been so shocking this season i'm going for 3-1 Spurs!! ;)

[Spur]

I'm scared.

[choda]

No, I think we will win. Boro are shocking all round at the minute and we can score goals. 1-3 to the mighty spurs.

Get ready for some decisive changes to the line-up too. Ramos is astute and he has already proved that he will ring the changes if he sees they are required.

It was also great to see him unhappy with certain things during the game and shouting at them to sort it out.

It seems clueless to just stand their with your arms crossed looking at problems.

[berbzy 'G']

4 0 Spurs win... My m8 said if we win we go to 14th... Don't know how true that is...

[peterc]

I predict another defeat, due to our defence that are weaker than butter fingers.

[olly27]

No, I think we will win. Boro are shocking all round at the minute and we can score goals. 1-3 to the mighty spurs.

Get ready for some decisive changes to the line-up too. Ramos is astute and he has already proved that he will ring the changes if he sees they are required.

It was also great to see him unhappy with certain things during the game and shouting at them to sort it out.

It seems clueless to just stand their with your arms crossed looking at problems.

Yep am going for a win, but a slender one. 1-2 to the Spurs with Keane to score again...I actually think Boro have gone from mediocre, and then losing Yakuba and Viduka, to absoloute woeful...but given are fragile confidence and probelms with conceding I forsee a win but only just.

[nuttyhotspurs]

i don't usually do this but ive got a sudden urge today. ill go 3-1 spurs aswell

[spurs61]

2-2 draw. Roibbie to get both and Downing and Catermole for Boro. I can't see Ramos having a major effect on the team in the space of five days, just hope he spends the next 48 hours working on the defence. In our favour Boro have few attacking options and we've already beaten them once this season. I just don't see us keeping a clean sheet having struggled to do so against Blackpool.

[Keanoldinho]

Is Mido playing? if so he'll probably bang one in but I predict a 3-1 win to us aswell with Robbie, Berba, and Jenas scoring

[JuicE]

Mido's out i think! Thank god, i hate the thought of him scoring the winner. :(

[corkspur]

Dont see us losing,at least a point, but i reckon we could nick a 2-1 win.

[jrio]

I'd be surprised if Zokora starts this game. Ramos has quickly identified the CMs as ineffectual and that a new keeper is a priority. Boro are very weak at the moment and he could afford to make some more radical changes. I wonder if he'd consider keeping the back four that finished on Wednesday and using either Kaboul or KPB in midfield?

[Keanoldinho]

I'd be surprised if Zokora starts this game. Ramos has quickly identified the CMs as ineffectual and that a new keeper is a priority. Boro are very weak at the moment and he could afford to make some more radical changes. I wonder if he'd consider keeping the back four that finished on Wednesday and using either Kaboul or KPB in midfield?


Robbo and Zokora have both came out with these interviews on the EPL official site today


http://www.premierleague.com/page/Headlines/0,,12306~1157678,00.html

http://www.premierleague.com/page/Headlines/0,,12306~1156927,00.html

[Spur]

I'd be surprised if Zokora starts this game. Ramos has quickly identified the CMs as ineffectual and that a new keeper is a priority. Boro are very weak at the moment and he could afford to make some more radical changes. I wonder if he'd consider keeping the back four that finished on Wednesday and using either Kaboul or KPB in midfield?

Think Boateng will make an appearance. Then again my Routledge prediction didn't quite happen did it so I could be wrong :o again :o :o

[jrio]

Think Boateng will make an appearance. Then again my Routledge prediction didn't quite happen did it so I could be wrong :o again :o :o

Coming on the back of your "Jol leaves - we gain 5 places!" thread, I imagine your confidence levels should soon be lower than those of Robbo's!

You're definitely right about Boateng though - he started Boro's last home game and came on against ManU last week! :D

[singapore spur]

3 or 4-1 to spurs , boro are dire but can see them nicking a goal .

if nothing else i think ramos will start us with a high tempo and expect to see berby getting back to his best .

[TURKISH]

I'd be surprised if Zokora starts this game. Ramos has quickly identified the CMs as ineffectual and that a new keeper is a priority. Boro are very weak at the moment and he could afford to make some more radical changes. I wonder if he'd consider keeping the back four that finished on Wednesday and using either Kaboul or KPB in midfield?

Ramos is a hard one to work out he isn't as stupid as jol as in he will drop players who are not doing well. Kaboul was shocking the other night and so is zokora nearly every game!

I don't feel we can relie on kaboul atm, but then who will play cb? Maybe chimbo and then stalteri right back? And then move tainio in cm with jj?

I feel Ramos will chop and change but hes trying to find out who his best players and that will take a while.

Boro on paper is a winnable game but will we get the job done is another story!

[Keanoldinho]

I think Ramos likes Chimbo in the middle because he was playing CB when we played Seville last season in the Uefa. Plus Chimbo is more pacy and versitile at CB kinda like Ledley were as Kaboul and Daws are slower brickshit houses. It will be interesting to see the line up on saturday thats for sure.

[singapore spur]

is gardner still injured ?

[Keanoldinho]

not sure but I hope so

[TURKISH]

I think Ramos likes Chimbo in the middle because he was playing CB when we played Seville last season in the Uefa. Plus Chimbo is more pacy and versitile at CB kinda like Ledley were as Kaboul and Daws are slower brickshit houses. It will be interesting to see the line up on saturday thats for sure.

I tell you what if rocha is fit i would start him!

[AssaTM]

To be fair Gardners looked our best CB this season, and he's actually looked fairly solid, he has ever attribute a good CB needs, so perhaps it really is injuries that made him so poor the last few seasons? eh? eh? haha

[TURKISH]

To be fair Gardners looked our best CB this season, and he's actually looked fairly solid, he has ever attribute a good CB needs, so perhaps it really is injuries that made him so poor the last few seasons? eh? eh? haha

I can never take big bubba seriously any more, especially after his performances with gary doherty at the back a few year ago. We were better of with zippy and bungle at the back!!!!!!!! :p

[mjbmedia]

barring injuries we'll have the same starting 11 as against Blackpool and he'll challenge them to prove him right to start them all again.

[Spur]

Coming on the back of your "Jol leaves - we gain 5 places!" thread, I imagine your confidence levels should soon be lower than those of Robbo's!

You're definitely right about Boateng though - he started Boro's last home game and came on against ManU last week! :D

How true, at least i've double the chance of being right I suppose!

No I mean our Boateng should get some sort of a look in, because currently our midfield is one of those jokes that was funny, once or twice, but is now rather annoying. Ok, i'll just say it. They're crap.

[Gino Ginelli]

I predict another defeat, due to our defence that are weaker than butter fingers.

What's the matter dude? Your sudden lack of confidence is unnerving me.

You're the one we rely on to be positive and predict 3-1 to us :D

[neilmcnab]

I THINK OUR MIDFIELD IS CRAP because they wernt required to do more than just close down and hoof forward(well hoof sideward really).

they wernt required to keep the ball, and create, or score goals and make runs forward, our strategy under jol seems to have been to defend and hope we get a ball up to forwards to nick a goal,

wile other teams viewd the game over 90mins and tried to create as many chances as poss,

when have we seen spurs keep the ball,

and we only play when the game becomes open, both teams attacking,

the arse the other nite 90% of the ball and their away and they playing with 2nd string players av age 22 or somthing like that,

how come they are so confident on the ball, how come their players can perform. even tho many it was 1st game for season and many played outa position....

answer they work on it in training.

they practice keeping the ball

they practice working at all the things they do tht makes them what they are...

and to conclude ... so do spurs practice so what do they do at training under jol... well the result of the 3 years he has had with these players is plain and clear for us all to see.....

he has developed jj into er... a gutless unimaginative open goal missing midfielder


robbo is a time bomb waiting to explode, and many others were far better before jol started to influence them...

in my view

[jrio]

What's the matter dude? Your sudden lack of confidence is unnerving me.

You're the one we rely on to be positive and predict 3-1 to us :D

Then, after the game ends in a 3-1 defeat, he exclaims: "And we would have won it too, if it wasn't for those blasted lazy players!"

Ssssssssccccccccooooooooooooooooooobbbbbbbbyyyyyyy-doooooo!!!!!!

[peterc]

What's the matter dude? Your sudden lack of confidence is unnerving me.

You're the one we rely on to be positive and predict 3-1 to us :D

I still predict a defeat, more set pieces, might cause us more problems.

[peterc]

Then, after the game ends in a 3-1 defeat, he exclaims: "And we would have won it too, if it wasn't for those blasted lazy players!"

Ssssssssccccccccooooooooooooooooooobbbbbbbbyyyyyyy-doooooo!!!!!!

Professor Wrong has spoken.:rolleyes:

[spursmadnick06]

I feel very confident about this season, Ramos has shown that he knows when to change things if they are not working. And unlike Jol doesn't make the change with about 2 minutes left!

[hastingsyid]

ive just looked in my crystal ball and i saw

i luvvly bottle of malt :p
steak,chips and all the trimmings:p
21yr old blonde bird with huge tiits:p :p


oh and a spurs 2-1 win

[MarlowSpurs]

ive just looked in my crystal ball and i saw

i luvvly bottle of malt :p
steak,chips and all the trimmings:p
21yr old blonde bird with huge tiits:p :p


oh and a spurs 2-1 win

**** me thats a crystal ball and half

[berbzy 'G']

ive just looked in my crystal ball and i saw

i luvvly bottle of malt :p
steak,chips and all the trimmings:p
21yr old blonde bird with huge tiits:p :p


oh and a spurs 2-1 win

That wouln't happen to be the blonde bird with huge tits on my left would it?

[choda]

I THINK OUR MIDFIELD IS CRAP because they wernt required to do more than just close down and hoof forward(well hoof sideward really).

they wernt required to keep the ball, and create, or score goals and make runs forward, our strategy under jol seems to have been to defend and hope we get a ball up to forwards to nick a goal,

wile other teams viewd the game over 90mins and tried to create as many chances as poss,

when have we seen spurs keep the ball,

and we only play when the game becomes open, both teams attacking,

the arse the other nite 90% of the ball and their away and they playing with 2nd string players av age 22 or somthing like that,

how come they are so confident on the ball, how come their players can perform. even tho many it was 1st game for season and many played outa position....

answer they work on it in training.

they practice keeping the ball

they practice working at all the things they do tht makes them what they are...

and to conclude ... so do spurs practice so what do they do at training under jol... well the result of the 3 years he has had with these players is plain and clear for us all to see.....

he has developed jj into er... a gutless unimaginative open goal missing midfielder


robbo is a time bomb waiting to explode, and many others were far better before jol started to influence them...

in my view

That's correct Neil about the passing, but it's only one of many problems. And the Arsenal youngsters are well schooled is right, but over a season I doubt they would be able to sustain playing that well.

[TURKISH]

Get your tips here boys..................:p

Im going for 3.2 to the mighty spurs keane 2 goals with berby one.

I will be putting a tenner on it. :cool:

[jrio]

Get your tips here boys..................:p

Im going for 3.2 to the mighty spurs keane 2 goals with berby one.

I will be putting a tenner on it. :cool:

Even against us difficult to see where they'll get 2 goals without Mido. Better off going for over 4.5 goals. I think Southgate may go 5 in midfield and Ramos will be looking to shore up the middle so it may be a lot tighter, especially as it's Ramos' first prem game, and away.

[TURKISH]

Even against us difficult to see where they'll get 2 goals without Mido. Better off going for over 4.5 goals. I think Southgate may go 5 in midfield and Ramos will be looking to shore up the middle so it may be a lot tighter, especially as it's Ramos' first prem game, and away.

I would of went with 2.0 as ramos first game and boro not really scoring but with our defence atm i feel we can concede against anyone.

I feel 3.2 or 2.0 ....**** it i will put a tenner on both! :p

[choda]

Boro will have Aliedare and Gook up front. No, I'm not being a racist, that's really his name.

Weak, I would suggest.

[jrio]

Interesting stat from the Indie:

"By contrast with Ramos, Southgate is only Boro's third change in 16 years."

That's one club that stability hasn't done a fat lot of good for, especially considering they have been big spenders with Gibson's money, and not just on transfers(how long ago was Boksic on 60k a week?). They won a LC, got hammered in a UEFA Cup final, best position has been 7th, and they got relegated in that period.

[mjbmedia]

Interesting stat from the Indie:

"By contrast with Ramos, Southgate is only Boro's third change in 16 years."

That's one club that stability hasn't done a fat lot of good for, especially considering they have been big spenders with Gibson's money, and not just on transfers(how long ago was Boksic on 60k a week?). They won a LC, got hammered in a UEFA Cup final, best position has been 7th, and they got relegated in that period.
ahh but under Mclaren theyd have been challenging for the title this season :p

[nuttyhotspurs]

i think ramos should give steed a proper run out in the middle

[SurreySpur]

At least with Mido being injured we shouldnt have to listen to those obsessed nutjobs, MidoForEver and Mido11_Pharaoh going on and on about their hero!!

[JuicE]

i think ramos should give steed a proper run out in the middle

Excuse me but your avatar seems to have it's tits hanging out! :eek:

[shakey18]

At least with Mido being injured we shouldnt have to listen to those obsessed nutjobs, MidoForEver and Mido11_Pharaoh going on and on about their hero!!

Amen to THAT!.Links for the game available from 12pm apparently.

http://4.livefooty.doctor-serv.com/

[nuttyhotspurs]

Excuse me but your avatar seems to have it's tits hanging out! :eek:

i can ask her to put them away if you wish

[JuicE]

i can ask her to put them away if you wish

Well! She is wearing a Spurs dressing gown after all! :D

[SCIFIN17YID]

"UK People : Good News ! Tvants Working Also Without Proxy !" w000t how did they do that ?

[nuttyhotspurs]

Well! She is wearing a Spurs dressing gown after all! :D


its actually the away shirt mate but its been cut down the middle to make it more comfortable for her

[nuttyhotspurs]

"UK People : Good News ! Tvants Working Also Without Proxy !" w000t how did they do that ?

tv ants = pants :)

[nuttyhotspurs]

on a more serious note. who does everyone think will play at centre half and in centre mid today

[SCIFIN17YID]

tv ants = pants :)

TvAnt's is not shit, people should learn how to use the software then comment on it, first off if people started to open there port's, then the stream will be better for all, today I have done that, hopefully all should get a good stream:
here is the link for today's game.


http://4.livefooty.doctor-serv.com/sat3.11/Middlesbrough_Tottenham.html


Remember is you are behind a router open them port's.

It's Japanese commentary though, but hey open your ports and you will get a perfect stream, I have done so and no buffering wuuu huuu.

[AssaTM]

Now if only TVAnts would download quicker than 1kb a second haha, since the other link they have is to an out of date version of TVAnts :(

[jrio]

on a more serious note. who does everyone think will play at centre half and in centre mid today
With Mido out he might start with Kaboul again, but I doubt Zokora will be in midfield, with possibly Tainio instead.

[jrio]

Very, very surprising. But interesting. And Woodgate injured for Boro. The 2 strikers really need to take advantage of this as long as our midfield can give some sort of supply.

Tottenham: Robinson, Chimbonda, Kaboul, Dawson, Lee, Lennon, Jenas, Boateng, Malbranque, Bent, Defoe

Subs: Cerny, Zokora, Stalteri, Berbatov, Keane

[coys]

can someone p;ease tell me where to get tv ants or is there a link for a sopcast stream?

[Neil_Vaughan]

Apparently...

http://www.asiaplatetv.com/group_e2.htm

[coys]

http://www.asiaplatetv.com/group_e2.htm this doesn't work for me

[\jackdaw]

Bent, Defoe and Boeting start .. interesting .. Keano and Berbs on bench

[\jackdaw]

BTW a little tip for those that watch the streams in a foriegn language.

Get your stream started so its up and running and turn the sound off.

Go to http://www.bbc.co.uk/london/sport/premiership/tottenham/index.shtml and start the BBC London radio broadcast. You need real player installed for this.

Now Real Player has a great little feature in it.. as it streams it caches on your pc, this enables you to move the comentary back so you can rehear it. This is where it comes into great effect for streams. Streams tend to run 3 minutes or so slower then live so when there is a goal kick, corner or what ever just move the timeline back to match the commentary in real player to the picture in the stream.

Then voila .. english commentary and a foriegn stream.

Hope this helps .. :cool:

[SurreySpur]

Well Juande certainly isn't affraid of making changes.

[SCIFIN17YID]

wtf why is wigan vs chelsea showing on our stream ? I am watching the following stream: *EDIT* NP I GOT THE GAME, ITS ON THAT STREAM !


http://4.livefooty.doctor-serv.com/sat3.11/Middlesbrough_Tottenham.html


where is our game please help !

and here is the link to download TvAnt's
http://rapidshare.com/files/67170491/TvantsSetup.EXE

[nuttyhotspurs]

lol@barcodes

[SurreySpur]

HAHAHA

Chris Kamara is watching the Newcastle V Portsmouth game on Soccer Saturday which is already 1-3 after just 17minutes!!

Poor Chris looks like he's going to have a heart attack he's so excited!!

Unbelievable!!!!

[nuttyhotspurs]

lol@sol ****bell

[SurreySpur]

boateng looks like he's bulked up since he joined us, he looks ****ing solid, shame JJ cant build himself up a bit.

[nuttyhotspurs]

what the **** is up with freelivefooty.tv agen??? that site is becoming a joke

[nuttyhotspurs]

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz so far

[nuttyhotspurs]

Bentyyyyyy

[\jackdaw]

Get in there Darren .. gets a bit of service and scores... could this be a sign of things to come?

[wayne wonder]

Boateng looks great who said he was one paced? what the **** do they know :rolleyes:

oh yeah get in dazza bent :D

[nuttyhotspurs]

crackin strike from the edge of the box in at the near post, caught the keeper flat footed

[SCIFIN17YID]

w0000000t BENT ! hopefully now his confidence will be ****ing boosted ! and get us them 16 mill worth of goals !

[Apples]

Anyone find TVANTs really slow????

[SCIFIN17YID]

Anyone find TVANTs really slow????

No if you are behind a router, then open your ports ! its streaming fine here and for my friends too, open ports and your problem will be solved. also note there is other people out there online who are behind router's and have not opened there port's that's why maybe you are getting a slow stream, turn off any other applications which might be consuming your bandwidth.

[nuttyhotspurs]

unluckkyyy benty. great cross by jd

[spursmadnick06]

See what happens when you actually use all 4 of your strikers, Bent and Defoe are looking good!

[nuttyhotspurs]

slow start to first half. improved as it went on. defence still looking very shaky at times but it isnt going to improve overnight, the only way it will is through confidence with clean sheets and hard work-simple as that, so fingers crossed

defoe and bent linking up ok. it looks like its paying off for ramos starting those 2. southgate would have been preparing to cope with berbys presence and keanos movement all week :) the half hour before ko must of been a bit chaotic in boros dressing room

come on you spurs

[spursmadnick06]

No if you are behind a router, then open your ports ! its streaming fine here and for my friends too, open ports and your problem will be solved. also note there is other people out there online who are behind router's and have not opened there port's that's why maybe you are getting a slow stream, turn off any other applications which might be consuming your bandwidth.

I'm going to sound really stupid here, but what ports are you meant to open? i'm getting a pretty stop-start stream.

I've just opened about 3 South Korean ports, i don't have a clue!

[berbzy 'G']

The defence are doing well too... Dawson has knocked out alot of balls in the box... Kaboul is comfortable, Chimbonda and Lee feeding the midfield...

[choda]

It's on freelivefooty.tv channel 2. They have sorted themselves out.

[nuttyhotspurs]

a up choda, tried to send you a pm earlier regarding freelivefooty.tv but it said your inbox is full and wont accept anymore pms till u delete some

[coys]

i know this sounds stupid but can someone please post a link

[coys]

****kkkkkkkkkkkk

[nuttyhotspurs]

that was the only way they were going to score in this game. unbelievable strike. so typical of our luck this season.

keep ya heads up lads we can still win this

[\jackdaw]

When the goal of the season comes out whats the betting at least 5 of them will be ones scored against Tottenham !!

[nuttyhotspurs]

When the goal of the season comes out whats the betting at least 5 of them will be ones scored against Tottenham !!

it's becoming a tad unfair aint it!!! :mad:

[nuttyhotspurs]

why does lennon become the invisible man in every game. where the hell does he disappear to????

[SCIFIN17YID]

Go into your router configuration and do some port forwarding

[SCIFIN17YID]

omg why did he take off Boateng and replace him with shitty Zakora ? some one tell me FFS.

[jrio]

I would of went with 2.0 as ramos first game and boro not really scoring but with our defence atm i feel we can concede against anyone.

I feel 3.2 or 2.0 ....**** it i will put a tenner on both! :p

Really hope you didn't but you might have been confident on seeing our line-up.

[mjbmedia]

well defoe and bent looked more dangerous than Keane and Berbs, not for the first time, yes Keane has scored a lot , also played a lot , but Berbs??? oi oi oi oi

[spursmadnick06]

We look far more exciting and quicker with Bent and Defoe upfront, why did he change them when they were playing well??]

Oh and Zokora really is pooh.

[peterc]

Well a point takes us to seventeenth,slight improvement but still not good enough.:eek:

[berbzy 'G']

Tottenham are a laughing stock, a ****ing joke... :mad:

[jrio]

Well a point takes us to seventeenth,slight improvement but still not good enough.:eek:
In comparison to your 3-1 defeat prediction surely that's a massive improvement?

[nuttyhotspurs]

in hindsight it was a bad idea to remove defoe and bent. i think he was hoping keano and berby would swing the game in our favour agen as boro were on top at that point. in the end it didnt do us any favours at all.

kpb had a good game, shame he went off. im thinkin it had something to do with fitness?? who knows

[berbzy 'G']

I never wanna see that Middlesbrough goal ever again!!!!!

Bent played very well as much as I slag him off, and Defoe... But when Keane and berbs come on, it basically went tits-up... Thats wierd... :rolleyes:

[jrio]

in hindsight it was a bad idea to remove defoe and bent. i think he was hoping keano and berby would swing the game in our favour agen as boro were on top at that point. in the end it didnt do us any favours at all.

kpb had a good game, shame he went off. im thinkin it had something to do with fitness?? who knows
Couldn't see that much due to tvpants giving me 10 second shots at best but that was Thompson's appraisal. From what I saw and heard whilst he was on, he seemed to be quite enterprising.

[AssaTM]

Well Ramos was always gonna swap the team about a bit cuz he needs to see everyone before he can decide on a solid lineup, plus the fact when you bring on Berbatov and Keane you expect them to actually create at least a few chances, and he brought on Zokora cuz every player deserves a chance, it's not like Ramos knows he's not so good, does he? but ah well, it's an improvement, and Ramos knows now which players will perform for him in the here and now, and thats important

[Indianspur]

Considering our a luck,a point away is a decent start, before the game i had no confidence that we would get anything as we have forgotten how get points. at least we are out of the relegation zone and the only way is up..
Ramos showed balls playing KPB and maybe when he sees more from taraabt he will start players on merit. slowly but surely we will improve me thinks, but cant expect miracles from ramos, until january and a left winger is brought,
bale and some speedy winger would be amazing!

[jrio]

Bale would add 30% to our game. How ludicrous is that? An 18 year-old making his debut in the prem constitutes that great a difference in our side? Kudos to Bent today. He thinks he will be our top scorer this season. Son, I hope you are because you really want to play for this club and you're a real team player.

One thought I had after Young's 25 yarder: since Campo's for Bolton at the start of last season what do you think is the ratio of similar for us at to against us? My best guess is something like 6 to 1. You're allowed to include 22 yarders like Jenas v Arse.

[peterc]

In comparison to your 3-1 defeat prediction surely that's a massive improvement?

My original post was:

I predict another defeat, due to our defence that are weaker than butter fingers.


Please show me where I said we would lose 3-1, yet wrong again Professor Wrong.:rolleyes:

[Gino Ginelli]

Bloody hell mate, stop getting so personal about stuff. You predicted we'd lose, fair enough. Jrio is merely saying that since we drew in the end you must be pretty happy with the result. The 3-1 (3-2, 4-1, it doesn't matter) element was merely a random guess at your predicted scoreline as you dodn't give one.

There's nothing malicious in any of it, or in my post. We all need to be getting positive here, rather than bickering amongst our selves, yes?

The next time you think someone is getting personal to you, just ignore it and don't bite. That way the forum stays civil and focused. And before you or anyone else replies with a passive aggressive dig at others, I aim that comment at everyone.

Peace, out :cool:

[Gino Ginelli]

BTW, good to see Ramos doing an Eriksson in his first season in charge, and giving everyone a fair crack of the whip. Was suprised at Robbies exclusion but then he was vindicated by Bent's goal, which was good by all accounts (I have yet to watch football firsts highlights). Was equally alarmed at the complete substitution of the forwards.

Phil "mind your conk, you nearly had my eye out!" Thompson on SSN was saying that Boro were imposing themselves on the game in the 2nd half, so surely that implied more steel in midfield, rather than a change of attacking staff?

Anyhoo, many predicted 1-1 for this, and it proved accurate. The rebuilding of the team structure starts here, with a point. I'll return with further analysis after FFirst on sunday morning. (I'm away on the lash at 7!)

Night!

[jrio]

My original post was:

I predict another defeat, due to our defence that are weaker than butter fingers.


Please show me where I said we would lose 3-1, yet wrong again Professor Wrong.:rolleyes:
OK, I stand corrected. I can't be right ALL the time despite operating on a much higher plane, but still an improvement, something you didn't acknowledge. It's all because of those blasted lazy... oh, hold on, that doesn't sound right. What's it down to peterc?

[nuttyhotspurs]

lennon disappoints me more and more each game. last season and the season before he used to play poor away and save his best for the home games, however he seems to be just poor in every game now.

his ability to drift out of games and become invisible is quite a talent, however it is very worrying because when he does, we are playing with 10 men.

he really does need a rocket up his arse because his final ball is absolutely pathetic at times. its as though he gets to the final third, panicks, closes his eyes and just hits and hopes. he gets into such good positions then lets himself down, you can see the constant frustration from the guys in the box everytime

so much ability yet so little deilvered. COME ON LENNON GET A GRIP LADDY!!!!

[jrio]

BTW, good to see Ramos doing an Eriksson in his first season in charge, and giving everyone a fair crack of the whip. Was suprised at Robbies exclusion but then he was vindicated by Bent's goal, which was good by all accounts (I have yet to watch football firsts highlights). Was equally alarmed at the complete substitution of the forwards.

Phil "mind your conk, you nearly had my eye out!" Thompson on SSN was saying that Boro were imposing themselves on the game in the 2nd half, so surely that implied more steel in midfield, rather than a change of attacking staff?

Anyhoo, many predicted 1-1 for this, and it proved accurate. The rebuilding of the team structure starts here, with a point. I'll return with further analysis after FFirst on sunday morning. (I'm away on the lash at 7!)

Night!
It's on youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kb6Bj2mTi9E. Cracking finish.

[Indianspur]

Defoe needs to start converting shots like that into goals. i dont believe its always luck and maybe more accuracy is required from his shots, orelse he wont dislodge keane.

[Spur]

What the general consensus?

[peterc]

OK, I stand corrected. I can't be right ALL the time despite operating on a much higher plane, but still an improvement, something you didn't acknowledge. It's all because of those blasted lazy... oh, hold on, that doesn't sound right. What's it down to peterc?


From the bits and pieces I managed to see on TVant, I would think it was down to lack of confidence ( a few players) and as for Berba, he has not made any improvement to impress the new gaffer, maybe it's time for him to move on. :eek:

[SurreySpur]

I was fairly happy with the performance and apart from the goal boro didnt put us under too much pressure, they did have a fair amount of the ball in the second half but we generally looked fairly comfortable.

I dont have any problem with ramos' substitutions, he obviously wants to see all the players in competitive action which is a good thing for all the squad, admittedly the Keane/Berba for Bent/Defoe didnt pay off, but he isnt afraid to mix things up a bit . A fresh start/clean slate for everyone will lead to players upping their games in order to secure a place in the starting XI which can only be a good thing.

All in all a good solid start for Juande in the Prem.

[Spur]

Watching the game at work, and our mics picked up this... not sure who it was, possibly Poyet.

'Bloody wake up all of you, its only 20 past 4'.

We looked exhausted with an hour gone.
A quote from someone working at Sky.

[berbzy 'G']

The main thing was we didn't let them create hardly any chances, the defending was 8/10...

But at the other end of the pitch, we created chances, but did not take them... :(

[nuttyhotspurs]

our defence did look better and at least we didnt concede in injury time AGAIN. we seriously need to give steed a run out in the middle though

[jrio]

A quote from someone working at Sky.

Virtually the same side that won 3-2 last season there.

Seemingly every manager comes into a failing club and they're not fit enough. Spurs concede far too many goals from over 20 yards and they did that again. No one is that unlucky, apart from Jonah.

How did Jol ever achieve anything with this bunch of losers? I've seen it many times before. That's why you need a manager.

[Spur]

Virtually the same side that won 3-2 last season there.

Seemingly every manager comes into a failing club and they're not fit enough. Spurs concede far too many goals from over 20 yards and they did that again. No one is that unlucky, apart from Jonah.

How did Jol ever achieve anything with this bunch of losers? I've seen it many times before. That's why you need a manager.

So what you actually saying there J, that Jol was a manager but lost it - at least with this bunch and those that came in. That's how I read it anyway.

With Ramos' effect on the squad those are things that he should sort out - including the conceding long range strikes in one way or another, be it transferring players or through training the keeper and CB's, CM's.

What's your take on Ramos already, do you think he will come in and do well or not?

[MACCSPURS]

What the general consensus?

I'd say it is far too early to judge

Wait until after Xmas to see this season out

Then, hate to say it, but wait for next season to see an improvement. Always hard when a manager inherits another managers players. Today, looking at the line up, I think he just needs to see what he has.

[jrio]

What's your take on Ramos already, do you think he will come in and do well or not?
Rhetorical question. Don't all football managers fail in the end? Even Bill Nick couldn't maintain the standards he'd set. He railed against agents and the payments that were made. In 1974!

Yeah, it's the last throw of the dice and a good one. After this, if it fails, consign Spurs to the dustbin of history, like Torino when their team died in a plane crash after dominating Italian football. Not only has Wenger finished us - he couldn't do it on his own - but that ****wit Scholar, a man I'd be happy to kill and eradicate from history. Don't blame Sugar or Levy, hang a picture of Scholar in your house and train your children to seek him out and murder him. You will do no finer deed to restore the pride of the Tottenham Hotspur Football Club.

Make sure they're efficient enought not to be caught. ;)

[Spur]

Rhetorical question. Don't all football managers fail in the end? Even Bill Nick couldn't maintain the standards he'd set. He railed against agents and the payments that were made. In 1974!

Yeah, it's the last throw of the dice and a good one. After this, if it fails, consign Spurs to the dustbin of history, like Torino when their team died in a plane crash after dominating Italian football. Not only has Wenger finished us - he couldn't do it on his own - but that ****wit Scholar, a man I'd be happy to kill and eradicate from history. Don't blame Sugar or Levy, hang a picture of Scholar in your house and train your children to seek him out and murder him. You will do no finer deed to restore the pride of the Tottenham Hotspur Football Club.

Make sure they're efficient enought not to be caught. ;)

I said before the season this was it, do or die, make or break, but they seemed intent on ruining it for the past few months.

Especially when Berba leaves - as it is inevitable IMO - we shall be thrown back again, ala when Carrick left.

Shame, but I see Juande as you do in that sense, asin this is the last throw of the die.

[jrio]

I said before the season this was it, do or die, make or break, but they seemed intent on ruining it for the past few months.

Especially when Berba leaves - as it is inevitable IMO - we shall be thrown back again, ala when Carrick left.

Shame, but I see Juande as you do in that sense, asin this is the last throw of the die.

The lights are turning out all over N17...........

Hey, let's listen to Big Sam: "The first goal, I thought it was Muntari. They told me it was Paramount(sic) with his left foot."

Now, I thought, despite criticism, he made some good pictures. :D

[Keanoldinho]

Levy could always sell us to some foriegn billionaire and we could turn into a team of worldbeating mercinaries like chelski shit we're already heading that route anyway as soon as Levy feels like he can get maximum profits.

[berbzy 'G']

Levy could always sell us to some foriegn billionaire and we could turn into a team of worldbeating mercinaries like chelski shit we're already heading that route anyway as soon as Levy feels like he can get maximum profits.

Yeah, Thats what we really need... Someone like abramovich with billions... The way he talks about buying kaka and Ronaldinho for £100 million at the same time is just like talking about a few pennys over some sweets... it's amazing really...

But before Abramovich joined Chelsea, He wanted to sign with Spurs, but they thought he was joking, Now look at what the Russian has done for Chelsea... Cups coming inn like imagrents... it's a shame

[choda]

I watched the second half today and I was quite impressed. The new manager is implementing some of the changes I want to see. The defence was much more organised, though still needs work, the set pieces were far better, we have a better defensive line, the players are far closer together and are working much harder. They are also moving the ball much better and quicker. Boeteng looks a real player. Why wasn't he playing already?

I'm sure he was taken off due to lack of match fitness. And Jenas was VERY GOOD! Yes, it just shows you. When the defence is pushed up to a reasonable line and we have our players closer, the midfield has a chance. And we had some urgency. This allowed Jenas to play like he can and he did. He and Boeteng looked quality, mobile and all action. I loved it.

I predict Ramos will get the player out of Jenas! Thank the lord. But still, don't count your chickens. ;)

Frankly Berbs deserves to be dropped until he plays well. He has had his chance and played badly. I think if Keane had played 90 minutes today with Bent we'd have won the game. He came on and didn't play that well, but you could see that he was causing them a problem and over 90 minutes that would probably have given us another goal or two.

But Defoe looked pretty good on the highlights I saw. I'm hoping Ramos can get the best out of him and Bent as well as the other two. And I'm sure he could play any combo.

One thing that alarmed me was the fitness. The players looked exhausted after an hour. They are not fit! Ramos has work rate in our play and our lads just aren't fit enough yet. I think that was part of the reason the subs couldn't work as much magic as we would have hoped to. The teams level went down a lot, even though we tried and were clearly the better quality side.

I think a fitter spurs would have trounced them in the end, to be honest. Our chaps just looked out on their feet for a half hour.

We still deserved to win though. For once this really was a thunderbolt that had no bad defending, gaps or late Robbo reactions to attached to it.

But it bodes well. I predict a bright future... in time.

[bocayid]

the fitness is a massive issue and has apparently been commented on by the new staff at the club...doesn't matter how good you are if you can't last the game....remeber Ghaly moaning when he went off about how he was made to train harder than he had at Spurs....is probably why we have conceded a lot of late goals...poor fitness leads to poor concentration...and also not being able to close down quick enough for those long robbo beaters from outside the box.....

Lets hope they can get this issue sorted out...we need to get a run going from somewhere...

[Keanoldinho]

the fitness is a massive issue and has apparently been commented on by the new staff at the club...doesn't matter how good you are if you can't last the game....remeber Ghaly moaning when he went off about how he was made to train harder than he had at Spurs....is probably why we have conceded a lot of late goals...poor fitness leads to poor concentration...and also not being able to close down quick enough for those long robbo beaters from outside the box.....

Lets hope they can get this issue sorted out...we need to get a run going from somewhere...


I bet he wishes he had of left now the lazy bastard he's probably in shock from all the doubles they're doing now:eek:

[Spur]

I bet he wishes he had of left now the lazy bastard he's probably in shock from all the doubles they're doing now:eek:

As jrio said he is in Egypt.

Doesn't train with us anymore, he's at his old Egyptian club training, and picking up his Spurs wage with a wry smile.

[Keanoldinho]

well damn I guess he's just a lucky bastard all the way round then how'd he manage that?

[shakey18]

well damn I guess he's just a lucky bastard all the way round then how'd he manage that?

Lucky ****er.Running next to the river for an hour 4 times a week and picking up 20k a week-i could do that!!.

[SurreySpur]

Lucky ****er.Running next to the river for an hour 4 times a week and picking up 20k a week-i could do that!!.

Yeah i could do that too......well apart from the running bit!! :p

[shakey18]

Yeah i could do that too......well apart from the running bit!! :p

Yeah well i forgot about that bit!:p ....stream maybe!:D

[Spur]

Basically I saw it on a website the other day, something he had said in reply to him going back to Spurs now Jol has left.

I couldn't tell you what site it is on but I can give you a quote that will be very close to exactly what he said.

"No I won't be going back to Spurs. It's not just Martin Jol I had a problem with. It was the Spurs board and chairman and fans as well. SO no I will not be going back to Spurs because they have a new manager. I am training here with Ah-Ahly in preparation for the upcoming international games. After that I will look toward the January Transder Window and find a new club, preferably in England."

I believe that is along the lines of what he said. I'm not sure if i'm right with the Ah-Ahly bit though, they were the only Egyptian team I could think of.

[shakey18]

Good find Spur. To be honest, Ghaly COULD have been a cracking player for us. If he had the work mentality of a Roy Keane, he could have been a real star. I think at the mo we need a Poulsen to add a load of steel to our midfield.

[jrio]

Basically I saw it on a website the other day, something he had said in reply to him going back to Spurs now Jol has left.


That was very accurate. It was in the Daily News Egypt. Another one of those players that has conflicts wherever he goes. Highly unlikely he'll get a club here.

[mjbmedia]

A quote from someone working at Sky.
yeh i heard that watching it online lol

Just wondering why a lot of other clubs have a change of manager and win well the next game, we dont (excl. Blackpool) .
And after the over the top eulogies of Ramos changing things v the titans called Blackpool and us still hanging on for a 2-0 victory, i await the opinions of the substitutions v Boro that were crap and ill thought out and totally unneccesary in the front twos case especially........:o

I can see Berbs going to Manchester in January, to join Petrov

[jrio]

Very interesting thought from the Guardian report.

"Martin Jol at least will probably have had a small smile to himself when he heard what had happened as conspiracy theorists saw in the team selection the hand of Damien Comolli, Tottenham's sporting director.

Dimitar Berbatov, Didier Zokora and, most surprisingly, captain Robbie Keane were all dropped to the bench and their replacements included Kevin-Prince Boateng and Darren Bent, two of the Comolli signings Jol had claimed had unbalanced the make-up. There was also a place for Jermaine Defoe, who surely would have been heading out of the door in the January transfer-window."

I don't think there's anything in it, but you could easily find support for such a view.

[Spur]

yeh i heard that watching it online lol

Just wondering why a lot of other clubs have a change of manager and win well the next game, we dont (excl. Blackpool) .
And after the over the top eulogies of Ramos changing things v the titans called Blackpool and us still hanging on for a 2-0 victory, i await the opinions of the substitutions v Boro that were crap and ill thought out and totally unneccesary in the front twos case especially........:o

I can see Berbs going to Manchester in January, to join Petrov

Would you not expect Berbatov and Keane to actually come off the bench and do something?

The only change I would have questioned out of the three he made was bringing Boateng off. I certainly would have expected Keane and Berbatov to create a little something and they've been absolutely slated because they didn't.

[Spur]

Very interesting thought from the Guardian report.

"Martin Jol at least will probably have had a small smile to himself when he heard what had happened as conspiracy theorists saw in the team selection the hand of Damien Comolli, Tottenham's sporting director.

Dimitar Berbatov, Didier Zokora and, most surprisingly, captain Robbie Keane were all dropped to the bench and their replacements included Kevin-Prince Boateng and Darren Bent, two of the Comolli signings Jol had claimed had unbalanced the make-up. There was also a place for Jermaine Defoe, who surely would have been heading out of the door in the January transfer-window."

I don't think there's anything in it, but you could easily find support for such a view.

Agree with that bit. More journo bullshit.

Think he probably played them all because he will rotate a huge deal. On Thursday I think he will go with a different combination of the 4.

[choda]

Would you not expect Berbatov and Keane to actually come off the bench and do something?

The only change I would have questioned out of the three he made was bringing Boateng off. I certainly would have expected Keane and Berbatov to create a little something and they've been absolutely slated because they didn't.

What did you think about what I said about the match spur? The fitness and that.

And Boeteng was surely earmarked before hand to be taken off early because his match fitness must be low.

[Spur]

What did you think about what I said about the match spur? The fitness and that.

And Boeteng was surely earmarked before hand to be taken off early because his match fitness must be low.

By the sounds of it everyone's match fitness is low.

I have only seen the highlights so i'm going on what alot of other people have said unfortunately.

Can't give a great deal of assessment but that's my own fault :mad: Was going to watch online, found a new site PM me if you want it, only I thought the match was today because we play on Sunday week in week out now you know? So pissed off when I found out as I had already agreed to go out somewhere, such a schoolboy error :mad: :rolleyes: :(

[choda]

Agree with that bit. More journo bullshit.

Think he probably played them all because he will rotate a huge deal. On Thursday I think he will go with a different combination of the 4.

It think spur61's opinion on the DoF etc is the most likely from the facts that we have and his source is very good.

Jol's recent interview was also very revealing. What happened is not really near the hyped stories and tales of interference and undermining that has been reported. The way he was undermined was with the public meeting, not in terms of doing transfers and Commolli, though I do accept that everyone is more comfortable when the DoF apppoints his man as coach, and Jol said as much too.

Indeed the most interesting two paragraphs were where he praised Levy and said he had zero problems with Commolli:

Surprisingly, he bears Levy no animosity. “One reason I like Daniel is he thinks in structures. I think in structures too. I seemed to be special to Spurs fans because I’m authentic, and if I had something with Daniel, I’d tell him. Sometimes he didn’t like that, but I still worked in his structure because he’s the best businessman ever and very ambitious.” The structure was the controversial two-tier arrangement, with a head coach reporting to a football director, imposed on Spurs. “I’m not against it, because they work like that in Europe, I worked in it before,” says Jol. “Ramon Monchi, Seville’s sporting director, is probably the best. He gets all his players. They were in the top six already and then he appointed Ramos and it worked. Frank Arnesen appointed me. But if you’re already there and somebody else comes in, it won’t work. Same with Harry Redknapp at Southampton and Sir Clive Woodward.”

Damien Comolli, Arnesen’s replacement as Spurs’ football director, is the “somebody else”. The Frenchman has been portrayed as Jol’s bête noire, but there is no sign at his Chigwell home of a Comolli voodoo doll. Jol says he "never had any problems" with Comolli. It’s "because he never bothered me. That was the problem". Rafael Benitez observed that the football director-head coach system needs one to have appointed the other to function; this seems to have been Spurs’ difficulty. Jol had his job title changed to “manager” and reported to Levy. “Frank would say, ‘Why did you do this in a game?’ Frank was more of a right-hand man, Frank was my friend, so we talked about football. I had nothing against Damien, but we just didn’t have that kind of relationship. Now it’s a better system for Spurs. Ramos is head coach and Damien’s his boss.”

The most interesing line I found in the whole article was the one I highlighted. He also said that he became manager when Commolli came in as opposed to head coach and that Commoli became more of a super scout, which wasn't the best for anyone.

Another interesting point is how he said that the structure needed to open a bit more. The wage ceiling had to increase a bit, something many of us stated a while back to get the 1 one 2 more developed big players we need.

That nots to say the structure hasn't been very successful though, it has produced a huge amount of talent and has been very profitable for future progress. The thing is, the board need to alter it a tad now to get the bit more experience we need.

But perhaps with a more coherent structure now with Commoli's choice of manager and him back as the DoF they will go ahead and make needed signngs in January.

Jol came out of that article fantastically again, as a man. It was so balanced and honest. I hope he goes on and does really well. I still have my reservations about his tactics. However, if their hadn't been that public meeting, he'd have probably somewhat turned it around like last year. I don't think he'd have pushed us on much further, but he was a top man at a crucial time for us and I wish him every success in the future.

[Spur]

It think spur61's opinion on the DoF etc is the most likely from the facts that we have and his source is very good.

Have to show me that!

Jol's recent interview was also very revealing. What happened is not really near the hyped stories and tales of interference and undermining that has been reported. The way he was undermined was with the public meeting, not in terms of doing transfers and Commolli, though I do accept that everyone is more comfortable when the DoF apppoints his man as coach, and Jol said as much too.
The most interesing line I found in the whole article I highlighted. He also said that he became manager when Commolli came in as opposed to head coach and that Commoli was became more of a super scout, which wasn't the best for anyone.

As I was saying earlier on! The bit about the change in role is poor management on Levy's part as well though. As such, it may have been the beginning of the final nails in Jol's coffin, as he had to shoulder complete responsibility.

[choda]

Have to show me that!




As I was saying earlier on! The bit about the change in role is poor management on Levy's part as well though. As such, it may have been the beginning of the final nails in Jol's coffin, as he had to shoulder complete responsibility.

Here you go:
http://www.thfctalk.com/forum/showpost.php?p=66622&postcount=56

I think it's even more likely now, given this recent Jol interview.

How's your fantasy team doing by the way? What's your team name?

[jrio]

Would you not expect Berbatov and Keane to actually come off the bench and do something?

The only change I would have questioned out of the three he made was bringing Boateng off. I certainly would have expected Keane and Berbatov to create a little something and they've been absolutely slated because they didn't.
Southgate wanted to bring George on and there's an obscure FA rule about only one Boateng allowed on a pitch at any one time.

[choda]

Southgate wanted to bring George on and there's an obscure FA rule about only one Boateng allowed on a pitch at any one time.

Lol, okay. I believe they spell their names differently though. ;) It's not like you to miss something like that mate.

[choda]

Have you got a fantasy team Jrio?

[jrio]

Lol, okay. I believe they spell their names differently though. ;) It's not like you to miss something like that mate.
Check again. Kevin-Prince Boateng and George Boateng. ;)

You're losing a bit of your sharpness, choda. Your energy levels must be artificially low after your extensive campaign over the weekend. :D

[Spur]

Here you go:
http://www.thfctalk.com/forum/showpost.php?p=66622&postcount=56

I think it's even more likely now, given this recent Jol interview.

How's your fantasy team doing by the way? What's your team name?

I've just looked and i've forgotten to enter the THFCTalk league :o

I'm a midtable kind of person anyway :o

[choda]

Check again. Kevin-Prince Boateng and George Boateng. ;)

You're losing a bit of your sharpness, choda. Your energy levels must be artificially low after your extensive campaign over the weekend. :D

Haha, okay, I'm blaming a hack that called our fella Boeteng. :o

But I should no better than to trust a hack on anything.

[singapore spur]

regarding the fitness levels of our players , well there really is no excuse as an individual or as a team . if they werent fit before and cant last 90+ minutes then its a disgrace .

as for the match , i thought we were pretty hopeless against a really poor boro side . i didnt really see any improovement in our defence , at times it looked like schoolboy defending and we werent even put under any pressure , any danger from boro came from our mistakes and stupid desicion making .
midfield , fairly impressed with kpb but again he wasnt up against much , same could be said with jj , he can often flatter against the weakest sides in the division . steed worked hard , lennon after i thought a reasonably bright 1st half disappeared as he so often does .
forwards , good goal from bent , as a combo him n defoe looked ok , but dont think either , or in fact any of the 4 did enough to guarentee selection next game , the way the season has gone i would start with keane and a.n.other next game .

crap game , very poor from both sides i thought , neither side looked like scoring tbh , both goals came from nothing really but at least we didnt lose .

[choda]

regarding the fitness levels of our players , well there really is no excuse as an individual or as a team . if they werent fit before and cant last 90+ minutes then its a disgrace .

as for the match , i thought we were pretty hopeless against a really poor boro side . i didnt really see any improovement in our defence , at times it looked like schoolboy defending and we werent even put under any pressure , any danger from boro came from our mistakes and stupid desicion making .
midfield , fairly impressed with kpb but again he wasnt up against much , same could be said with jj , he can often flatter against the weakest sides in the division . steed worked hard , lennon after i thought a reasonably bright 1st half disappeared as he so often does .
forwards , good goal from bent , as a combo him n defoe looked ok , but dont think either , or in fact any of the 4 did enough to guarentee selection next game , the way the season has gone i would start with keane and a.n.other next game .

crap game , very poor from both sides i thought , neither side looked like scoring tbh , both goals came from nothing really but at least we didnt lose .

I saw the second half and I thought there was a big change on tactical details and organisation. It pleased me because I saw signs that Ramos is doing what he needs to do. But it won't happen immediately.

He has to get them used to it, get more confidence and playing as a team again. And it will take a few weeks to ge them fully fit. I think Jol's philopsophy is to get fit as the season goes and he doesn't believe in work rate. I would criticise him for those mistakes.

[TURKISH]

regarding the fitness levels of our players , well there really is no excuse as an individual or as a team . if they werent fit before and cant last 90+ minutes then its a disgrace .

as for the match , i thought we were pretty hopeless against a really poor boro side . i didnt really see any improovement in our defence , at times it looked like schoolboy defending and we werent even put under any pressure , any danger from boro came from our mistakes and stupid desicion making .
midfield , fairly impressed with kpb but again he wasnt up against much , same could be said with jj , he can often flatter against the weakest sides in the division . steed worked hard , lennon after i thought a reasonably bright 1st half disappeared as he so often does .
forwards , good goal from bent , as a combo him n defoe looked ok , but dont think either , or in fact any of the 4 did enough to guarentee selection next game , the way the season has gone i would start with keane and a.n.other next game .

crap game , very poor from both sides i thought , neither side looked like scoring tbh , both goals came from nothing really but at least we didnt lose .


We just have to keep going and keep taking positives from each game. We are not in the position at the moment to be able to beat a team 4.0. We have to battle and thats something new for our players and hopefully this will build there character to becoming better players.

Our defence is rock bottom, kaboul looks shocked he is getting worse but we need him atm cause things are that bad. He will be a good player but he wasn't ready for a run of games which was thrown up on him. When rocha or king come back then i would think kaboul will get a rest.

Things will improve because things can't get any worse.....:p .

[choda]

We just have to keep going and keep taking positives from each game. We are not in the position at the moment to be able to beat a team 4.0. We have to battle and thats something new for our players and hopefully this will build there character to becoming better players.

Our defence is rock bottom, kaboul looks shocked he is getting worse but we need him atm cause things are that bad. He will be a good player but he wasn't ready for a run of games which was thrown up on him. When rocha or king come back then i would think kaboul will get a rest.

Things will improve because things can't get any worse.....:p .

I saw the second half and he played well, so did Dawson. They were much better organised.

[TURKISH]

I saw the second half and he played well, so did Dawson. They were much better organised.

I believe his a good player i just think kaboul downfall is that he wants to be every where at once.

[singapore spur]

i know its going to take time , and i guess dawson did look a bit more comfortable than he has for some time and turkish you may be right about kabouls inexperience dragging him into situations and areas that he shouldnt be in .
but it was basics we were getting wrong , things that the under 8 s team i help out with seem to grasp , even if their execution is still a bit poor :)

[mjbmedia]

Would you not expect Berbatov and Keane to actually come off the bench and do something?

The only change I would have questioned out of the three he made was bringing Boateng off. I certainly would have expected Keane and Berbatov to create a little something and they've been absolutely slated because they didn't.
well having watched the whole game unlike most on here, Bent and defoe were rightly picked for the speed etc against a slow immobile Boro defence and they were working it well and still creating chances etc so why take them off. The midfield were feeding them well due to their good movement but then Kenae and Berbs just kept making the same runs and the midfield couldnt find them so well and Berbs just bacame a target man and it went Pete Tong. You are allowed to criticise Ramos you know, he is human .:D

[Gino Ginelli]

I am heartened by what I saw on Saturday, but not enough yet to allay the ever present fears of the season so far.

Eyebrows must have been raised throught the football community at Keane's exclusion from the first team. Berbatov not so much, as I feel he must prove himself more than most right now. An absurd situation considering his vast talent, and his success last season. Yet Bent and Defoe more than justified their selection, with some clever movement and dangerous looking chances. Bent's goal was explosive, and by god did he need that. I think he's just gotten something out of his system, and I expect him to be selected alongside Keano on Thursday. There's going to be some goals coming from this lad now I feel.

He should have had a second later on, when Defoe did very well to get the ball across the box to him. But then this is still a problem with all the strikers right now; not taking those gilt edged chances is costing us dear. Goals like the equaliser can be closed down faster but once it's left the boot there's nothing you can do. I mean, who really expects Luke Young to hit a shot like that? Ever?! So chances like Bent's agonising toe prod that crept just outside the far post, they need to be going in. Now!

Keano for Defoe? Fine, Defoe had done alright, but we know what Robbie can do so bring him on to sort it. But Berba for Bent? Hmmm, I think Bent deserved his 90mins to be honest. The pace and power clearly appeals to Ramos' tactics. Berba may feel slightly bewildered as to what to make of the club right now, so I hope the new Coaching staff are able to motivate him and help him find his form again.

The midfield though. I was impressed with Boateng. Definately a more mobile and thouroughly more proficent footballer than Hudd and Zokora on first impressions. Was very busy, but obviously fitness is still an issue there, as he looked knackered after 60 minutes. Zokora was logical choice. But do you know who really impressed me? Jenas and Steed! I thought they were both really good. Okay JJ still rarely passes forwards, but there was hardly a stray pass and he worked tirelessly as ever. Steed was busy too, and played some telling passes, and set up Bent in a good position. He's still a bit of a headless chicken, but he actaully added to the team today. And he's taking the corners now. Marked improvement over JJ in delivery.

Lennon's looking lively and dangerous. Final product is still lacking but he's working those positions with such dynamism again. C'mon Ramos, curb his nightlife and get him loving the game again.

Defence wise... dear oh dear. Okay, first off, Lee had a good game, whose pretty consistent these days. But 3 things must be done by Ramos here:

1) Help Chimbonda to realise that he does not possess skills like Ronaldinho and just pass the ****ing ball.

2) Help Dawson to realise that he cannot pass the ball like Ruud Gullit and stop thumping the ****er 60 yards to the opposition all the time. Also, don't try to 'do' the attacker resulting in falling over and giving the ball away.

3) Help Kaboul to realise that he's not Rio Ferdinand and to stop running out to midfield / wide positions he not meant to be in! Concentrate! Or he'll be dodging drug tests in a year's time.

Finally, just get them to stop dithering around and being clever with the ball in OUR OWN THIRD OF THE PITCH!!

Robbo was great! He actually claimed and HELD a corner ball! And pulled off some good saves. I sense confidence creeping back in.

My final assessment is that Defence is all well and good, as long as you don't go and give the ball straight back to them, and Exocets can't be blocked. If this is a problem, then make sure that the chances you make are turned into goals, and that being strong & pacey is more effective in the Prem than being floaty and apathetic, unless you're a genius, in which case use it FFS. Having mad tattoos and being german makes you look tough, but makes you a target for low flying Condors who may poo on your head.

[MiloMinderbinder]

Scholar, a man I'd be happy to kill and eradicate from history. Don't blame Sugar or Levy, hang a picture of Scholar in your house and train your children to seek him out and murder him. You will do no finer deed to restore the pride of the Tottenham Hotspur Football Club.

Make sure they're efficient enought not to be caught. ;)

Interesting jrio, there's little or no doubt for those that know that Scholar was indeed a tool when it came to ruining this club. However, his problem was he was a fan first and a chairman 2nd. Can you pinpoint the exact moment when it all went pair-shaped? (rhetorical question as a smart-arse loves to ansers his own) it was when he let the commercial director (can't remember his name) go to Man U, who at the time where in our shadow, this chap then proceeded to launch "brand Man U", giving them the firmest of financial footings with which to re-scale the heights of the game. We could have been there by now had this not have come to pass.

[Spur]

well having watched the whole game unlike most on here, Bent and defoe were rightly picked for the speed etc against a slow immobile Boro defence and they were working it well and still creating chances etc so why take them off. The midfield were feeding them well due to their good movement but then Kenae and Berbs just kept making the same runs and the midfield couldnt find them so well and Berbs just bacame a target man and it went Pete Tong. You are allowed to criticise Ramos you know, he is human .:D

I did, I criticised him taking Boateng off!

We have 4 top class strikers. If we have Berbatov on I expect us to score. If we have Keane on I expect us to score. If we have Defoe on I expect us to score. If we have Bent on I expect us to score. Why not give them all their chance? In theory it should prove they will score more goals that way anyway. I expect to score with whoever we have on the pitch.

As it goes I actually prefer changing two strikers to one. It's the same with wingers. Jose did it all the time when he had 4 fit wingers, it changes the game no end, and it always works. Changing two strikers for two strikers, or two winger for two wingers, or two CM's for two CM's (although a bit more risky) is actually a very effective tactic.

[jrio]

Interesting jrio, there's little or no doubt for those that know that Scholar was indeed a tool when it came to ruining this club. However, his problem was he was a fan first and a chairman 2nd. Can you pinpoint the exact moment when it all went pair-shaped? (rhetorical question as a smart-arse loves to ansers his own) it was when he let the commercial director (can't remember his name) go to Man U, who at the time where in our shadow, this chap then proceeded to launch "brand Man U", giving them the firmest of financial footings with which to re-scale the heights of the game. We could have been there by now had this not have come to pass.
Fanciful thinking to the nth degree. I'd credited you with more insight than thinking that any mere commercial director could possibly have led Spurs to usurp the appeal of ManU. The idea of ManU being in our shadow is risible. We were marginally more successful but still greatly financially and popularly over-shadowed; even Liverpool's continual grinding trophy success over 20 years couldn't surpass them in any other respects. Any re-scaling of heights was done by Ferguson, not by anyone involved in commercial affairs.

Scholar's fault was having the mentality of a "rich" fan. Men like this are only "fans" on their terms. That led to his proposal on ground re-development, and offering the so-called enticement of a "big end" to fans, many of whom swallowed it on the basis that it would "benefit the club". Spurs' shelf side was a key feature of cementing my attachment to the club. I was totally opposed to the proposals, though the Taylor report meant that those changes would have taken shape in some form.

Scholar was a property developer yet bungled the East Stand, overseeing a failure for it to be granted a safety certificate for the start of the season and plunging the club into massive debt with its costs. Spurs faced the very real possibility of being forced out of football or being the plaything of Robert Maxwell. This was at a time when attendances were slowly recovering from an all-time low(I've remarked before that I was at our last game of the season against Southampton in '85 when the attendance was not much over 15k) and tv interest was negligible. Selling Gazza for 4.5m ensured the club could survive. It was that desperate.

I wouldn't say that being a fan is a handicap, but it shouldn't be your first recommendation. That's why I often decry support for players who are "fans". Personally I despise Levy, but he clearly has the financial acumen and responsibility to ensure the club is always in a strong financial position. People excuse Levy by saying he's doing the best for the club. I respond by pointing out that's his job, and comparing him to parents who emphasise they love their kids - that's nothing special, they're your kids. Who else is supposed to love them?

We've all experienced the shame of recent months from our board's conduct, but it isn't anything new. It's just that Sugar was quite earnest and dull, so most memories are not fresh with how Scholar was even more disgraceful, or how Sidney Wale and co treated Bill Nick in such a derisory manner. In the latter, that was a society where there were still bosses and workers, and Bill Nick was an employee whose advice the board were never likely to pay much heed.

[mjbmedia]

As it goes I actually prefer changing two strikers to one. It's the same with wingers. Jose did it all the time when he had 4 fit wingers, it changes the game no end, and it always works. Changing two strikers for two strikers, or two winger for two wingers, or two CM's for two CM's (although a bit more risky) is actually a very effective tactic.
but it didnt work, did it, they done very little, had little success against a poor Boro defence.
Fair enough if the front two have dried up in the game, given it their all and are out on their feet then change them, but Defoe and Bent were still creating chances, it was literally two minutes after Defoe had an opening due to a good off the ball run by Bent. They were working well together and at that stage of the game against fellow strugglers it wasnt a time to try something else when what was already there was working well.
Of course no one knows but i feel we would have won had the front two stayed on, the midfield were picking them out well ,understanding their movement and that all dried up after the subs.

[Spur]

Well like I say, I never saw the whole match.

When I heard he had swapped both strikers I wasn't exactly upset. I like the fact he's willing to say to all 4 go out and do it, the team is depending on them - because it is.

It's generally a rule in my eyes that when you change a whole set of players - be it strikers or wingers etc. - you change a game. Clearly this time it wasn't for the better, but not one person would have expected that to be the case.

[mjbmedia]

. Clearly this time it wasn't for the better, but not one person would have expected that to be the case.
well not one person apart from me then is it??? cos in my eyes its if it aint broke dont fix it. the front two certainly werent broke, against a slow immobile Boro defensive unit we had two mobile sharp and quick forwards replaced = poor decision .
I get what youre saying but i didnt agree with the subs when they happened and i dont now and the new forwards were much less effective in all ways than Bent and Defoe, at least in the match we are talking about they were, and thats more because the defence of Boro suited the forwards on from the start than any drop of standards in our midfield .

Its fine taking action when you have to ie V Blackpool , but not when theres no need or just for the sake of it , Bent and Defoe basically got rewarded for playing pretty well and taking their chance by being hauled off and having to watch us fail to win the match.

anyway lets agree to disagree.