Match Thread: Tottenham Hotspur vs Aston Villa

[TURKISH]

Spurs have always had a soft centre but now we're really taking it to extremes. Curiously we insist on scoring first in the first 20 minutes and then concentrate on giving the game away. And all the money hasn't been spent on attacking players - nearly 20m on Bale and Kaboul, though Bale seems much more of a potent attacking force. 10 goals conceded in 4 home games, the only clean sheet against Derby. Truly shocking. Even Ardiles as manager wouldn't have accepted that.

But what's jol gonna do about? **** all he just says are we have to defend better and than expects us to do so.

Im hearing from good sources that jol isn't training them properly, bent after training has been going to the gym, the foreign players are moaning there not doing enough running.........yes the foreign players.

Why do spurs when they spend the amount of money that the top four do they still end up bottom 3 with shit players?????

[jrio]

You think Liverpool haven't milked the badge and name of the club like Man U, or the Goons? Or even Newcastle?
Were you happy to see those "50 Spurs legends"? Those memories are becoming ever more distant. Yes, we're becoming more and more like Newcastle.

[jrio]

But what's jol gonna do about? **** all he just says are we have to defend better and than expects us to do so.

Im hearing from good sources that jol isn't training them properly, bent after training has been going to the gym, the foreign players are moaning there not doing enough running.........yes the foreign players.

Why do spurs when they spend the amount of money that the top four do they still end up bottom 3 with shit players?????
Don't worry, Kia Joorbachian has 2 top Argentinian players he can loan us! :eek:

[TURKISH]

Don't worry, Kia Joorbachian has 2 top Argentinian players he can loan us! :eek:

I heard he wants to buy a premier league club :eek:

[olly27]

A result is what Levy asked for and we did not lose tonight. We came back against a team who have shown great improvement under O'Neill. Determination was clear to be seen and for whatever reason we did not end up losing 4-1. Jol has made mistakes but I keep asking, but never seem to have an answer, mention one manager who never makes any tactical errors? Mourinho, Ferguson, Rafa, Wenger.

I have read several of your pretty pointless posts. I am now compelled to reply through sheer frustration. The aforementioned managers make less mistakes than Jol - it is that simple. All managers make mistakes, but its the one's who get it right more often than not who achieve more success as a manager. Jol's probelms have been evident for a long time, the problem is he is still making the same mistakes. Jol cannot make big decisions. Yes its all relative to the size and quality of your squad but there are definitely other managers out there who would get a lot more out of this squad. You obviously have a very naieve view on what you think makes a good manager. Is Jol responsibile for any of this!? To concede 4 goals to a side who are yet to score away this season...is pretty shocking. The result last night gave fans like you a complete false sense of perspective. If this result had been 0-0 would you of been getting on the same way? All this does is prolong the inevitable.

[peterc]

Have some more hay. You almost seem to be conscious, though not making any more sense.

Shows your lack of maturity with such ignorant digs. No matter what you say Jrio, I will never agree to your petty way of so called thinking.
:rolleyes:

[olly27]

I actually wondered why Jol did not buy a half decent centre half over the summer who had premiership expereince. I mean I saw the likes of Distin going to Pompey. Anyone of this sort of mould would surely of helped. Then I read an article in the Times where Jol actually mentioned the likes Of Distin and quoted, which I thought he would, that it did not fall in with the club's policy. But surely some experience with all the youth we have been buying would of proved to be prudent? I just cant understand, given the problems with King, why we didn't buy at least one experienced premiership centre half. Its not like we couldn't afford it! Kaboul looks a good prospect but has a massive amount to learn. He clearly wants to be involved in attacks, like poping up on the left wing last night!, and clearly is a threat from set-pieces which is great. However he is a defender first and foremost and is young and new to the premiership. Cannot understand why the club didn't look to bring in some experienced faces to get the right balance. This is not a wild reaction from the benefit of having hindsight...something I feared would happen.

[peterc]

I have read several of your pretty pointless posts. I am now compelled to reply through sheer frustration. The aforementioned managers make less mistakes than Jol - it is that simple. All managers make mistakes, but its the one's who get it right more often than not who achieve more success as a manager. Jol's probelms have been evident for a long time, the problem is he is still making the same mistakes. Jol cannot make big decisions. Yes its all relative to the size and quality of your squad but there are definitely other managers out there who would get a lot more out of this squad. You obviously have a very naieve view on what you think makes a good manager. Is Jol responsibile for any of this!? To concede 4 goals to a side who are yet to score away this season...is pretty shocking. The result last night gave fans like you a complete false sense of perspective. If this result had been 0-0 would you of been getting on the same way? All this does is prolong the inevitable.
Thanks you ever so much for your compliment, I'm quite surprised that you bothered to answer my pointless posts, all managers make mistakes, but its the one's who get it right more often than not who achieve more success as a manager Jol should help us win the CL and premeirship in the near future, that's according to what you have stated. Jol has managed to secure us fifth place twice in one of the best leagues in Europe, money has been spent but one has to accumulate to speculate. The team has taken time to gel, but I am still confident that Jol will turn it round again and prove many of his critics wrong yet again. May I also remind you not even the legend of WHL Bill Nicholson managed such an achievement. By the way, Jol ain't going nowhere, so live with it.

[olly27]

Thanks you ever so much for your compliment, I'm quite surprised that you bothered to answer my pointless posts, all managers make mistakes, but its the one's who get it right more often than not who achieve more success as a manager Jol should help us win the CL and premeirship in the near future, that's according to what you have stated. Jol has managed to secure us fifth place twice in one of the best leagues in Europe, money has been spent but one has to accumulate to speculate. The team has taken time to gel, but I am still confident that Jol will turn it round again and prove may of his critics wrong yet again. May I also remind you not even the legend of WHL Bill Nicholson managed such an achievement. By the way, Jol ain't going nowhere, so live with it.

Pete seriously I don't think you really understood my post...Your are right behind Martin Jol which is fair enough and entitiled to your opinion as is everyone. I just see the same mistakes happening and nothing being done to rectify them....abysmal organisation, players played out of position...the side is totally devoid of any leadership...I could go on and on but most people on here have clearly stated the obvious problems that dont show any signs of dissappearing.

[JuicE]

Thanks you ever so much for your compliment, I'm quite surprised that you bothered to answer my pointless posts, all managers make mistakes, but its the one's who get it right more often than not who achieve more success as a manager Jol should help us win the CL and premeirship in the near future, that's according to what you have stated. Jol has managed to secure us fifth place twice in one of the best leagues in Europe, money has been spent but one has to accumulate to speculate. The team has taken time to gel, but I am still confident that Jol will turn it round again and prove may of his critics wrong yet again. May I also remind you not even the legend of WHL Bill Nicholson managed such an achievement. By the way, Jol ain't going nowhere, so live with it.

When he leaves for what ever reason, will you promise never to come back on here? Please! :)

[peterc]

Pete seriously I don't think you really understood my post...Your are right behind Martin Jol which is fair enough and entitiled to your opinion as is everyone. I just see the same mistakes happening and nothing being done to rectify them....abysmal organisation, players played out of position...the side is totally devoid of any leadership...I could go on and on but most people on here have clearly stated the obvious problems that dont show any signs of dissappearing.

I understood your post but don't totally agree with what you have stated. Jol has made mistakes and he has had to play certain players out of position, due to mainly injuries and no other options, by saying this I am not saying that I agreed with all his options . Keano has shown leadership, he has worked his socks off and prove of this was yesterday when he was defending at times. He also shows lots of determination that also reflects to the teams performance, here again yesterday, second half is the proof. Some so called Spurs fans (more like old grumpy grannies) on this forum just enjoy slagging off Jol and the players, yes, we are not having the brightest seasons, but surely some of you are writing us off too soon, basically expect overnight glory and too impatient.

[mjbmedia]

Still, for all their failures, those managers achieved quite a lot, didn't they? I'm guessing you wouldn't want to polish their medal cabinets every day.
YES but they had a good starting position at the clubs ie Liverpool, Chelsea and Arsenal were already up there and Man U gave Fergie a lot of time to get it right. More time that youre willing to give Jol. And all four had learned the trade and made those mistakes elsewhere (Portugal, Spain, Scotland) not in the EPL like where Jol is learning. OK he has managed in Dutch league but then that league is much more forgiving and very weak.

tho thats not saying hes perfect, far from it, but bit unfair to use the comparison

[peterc]

When he leaves for what ever reason, will you promise never to come back on here? Please! :)

He ain't going nowhere, enjoyed your surfing?.

[Ginola's Son]

Jol would have had to be sacked if we lost 4-1 at home on a night of celebration. The buck stops with him....

The players pulled it out, and saved him

We MUST kick on from here. Average is not acceptable.

[jrio]

May I also remind you not even the legend of WHL Bill Nicholson managed such an achievement. By the way, Jol ain't going nowhere, so live with it.
You clearly don't know what you're talking about and have bought in to these successive 5th placings as being some kind of miracle. In relation to the last 15 years it's impressive but there's no comparison to Nicholson. In the 5 seasons between 1959 and 1964 Nicholson finished 3/1/3/2/4. I'm not expecting Jol to achieve anything like that. Avoiding finishing in the bottom 6 would be an achievement at the moment.

[jrio]

YES but they had a good starting position at the clubs ie Liverpool, Chelsea and Arsenal were already up there and Man U gave Fergie a lot of time to get it right. More time that youre willing to give Jol. And all four had learned the trade and made those mistakes elsewhere (Portugal, Spain, Scotland) not in the EPL like where Jol is learning. OK he has managed in Dutch league but then that league is much more forgiving and very weak.

tho thats not saying hes perfect, far from it, but bit unfair to use the comparison
mjb, Scotland is one of the weakest leagues in Europe and Portugal isn't a strong league, certainly no stronger than Holland. One thing Fergie did when Leighton cost the team goals was replace him in the cup replay against Palace. If Robbo was a horse he'd have been shot well before now.

[choda]

I think another game went by without jj and hudd didn't take his chance. The hudd got rapped tonight by barry and coker who i felt spurs should off brought.

Im not a huge fan of tom but jj is a better all round player in my eyes. I feel tom's overated and will get over run by midfielders. I felt tom didn't do zokora any favours tonight.


Should off brought Scott brown.

You might want to take one of those p's out of rapped given the current climate with premiership footballers. Lol. Otherwise I might think you are being literal and they had a rap off where Reo-Coker stole the show and Barry with his cap turned sideways pull off a white boy rap at the expense of Tom the Hudd.

And JJ isn't a better all round player than my granny, not to mind Tom the Hudd. He had a shocker last night, but he has had many good games. I do share concerns over his mobility but as I say he's young and I'd like to see him in a team where there aren't so many gaps between the units exposing him badly.

But he's a miles better footballer than Jenas. Jenas is a stinking steaming pile of pig urine fermenting into the ground on a devon farm.

[TURKISH]

You might want to take one of those p's out of rapped given the current climate with premiership footballers. Lol. Otherwise I might think you are being literal and they had a rap off where Reo-Coker stole the show and Barry with his cap turned sideways pull off a white boy rap much to the expense of Tom the Hudd.

And JJ isn't a better all round player than my granny, not to mind Tom the Hudd. He had a shocker last night, but he has had many good games. I do share concerns over his mobility but as I say he's young and I'd like to see him in a team where there aren't so many gaps between the units exposing him badly.

But he's a miles better footballer than Jenas. Jenas is a stinking steaming pile of pig urine fermenting into the ground on a devon farm.


Sorry bout spelling mistake :) .


Hudd doesn't no when to pass, gives the ball away, can't run, can't shoot, can't header, doesn't track back.

JJ gets up and down the pitch, scores goals, knows when to build up play and when to go the for killer pass.

I don't think tom's what we need and i don't think him dropping weight will help him either.

[Chaydle]

Crikey, some people are obsessed with JJ even slagging him off when he doesn't play.

The hudd had a poor game but he is only a young player, he was no worse then Robbo/chimbo/lennon/tainio, give the lad a break, he is going to turn out to be a fantastic player.
Do we want a team of athletes or skilful players who can see space, read the game and pass the ball onto a sixpence?

[olly27]

Crikey, some people are obsessed with JJ even slagging him off when he doesn't play.

The hudd had a poor game but he is only a young player, he was no worse then Robbo/chimbo/lennon/tainio, give the lad a break, he is going to turn out to be a fantastic player.
Do we want a team of athletes or skilful players who can see space, read the game and pass the ball onto a sixpence?

I believe a combination of both would be handy!

[spursmadnick06]

But don't you realise, JJ is the reason we conceded 4 goals last night, JJ is the reason we're in the bottom 3. It's all JJ's fault!

[Ginola's Son]

JJ's woeful performances at times has cost us dearly. He is supposed to pull the strings in the middle of the park

[TURKISH]

JJ's woeful performances at times has cost us dearly. He is supposed to pull the strings in the middle of the park

I feel the whole team woeful performances have cost us all the time.

It just doesn't look good..........;

[Ginola's Son]

JJ at boro last week, sometimes just stood on the ball for about a minute and just waited to be robbed, he does that. Sometimes he is great, its never ever enough.

[spursmadnick06]

JJ's woeful performances at times has cost us dearly. He is supposed to pull the strings in the middle of the park

If it weren't for JJ's goals we probably wouldn't even be in the UEFA Cup now. I'm not saying he's brilliant, but he's certainly better than what we've got.

[spurs61]

I'm not saying he's brilliant, but he's certainly better than what we've got.


You mean like an STD???! It's better to have herpes over syphilis??! ;) :D

[spursmadnick06]

You mean like an STD???! It's better to have herpes over syphilis??! ;) :D

Exactly :D got to choose the best of the two evils.

[mjbmedia]

mjb, Scotland is one of the weakest leagues in Europe and Portugal isn't a strong league, certainly no stronger than Holland. One thing Fergie did when Leighton cost the team goals was replace him in the cup replay against Palace. If Robbo was a horse he'd have been shot well before now.
At the time Fergie was in Scotland it was stronger than it is now , weakened due to the top two being the same runaways winners. I do stand to be corrected but im sure Jols team wasnt in the top tier of Dutch football .

Ivebeen saying drop Robbo for ages so no disagreement there

Anyone see Macca on Setanta last night, he summed it up perfectly.

[RuFuS]

I ain't giving up hope.

It's those mind bending drugs you wanna give up ;) :p :D

[peterc]

You clearly don't know what you're talking about and have bought in to these successive 5th placings as being some kind of miracle. In relation to the last 15 years it's impressive but there's no comparison to Nicholson. In the 5 seasons between 1959 and 1964 Nicholson finished 3/1/3/2/4. I'm not expecting Jol to achieve anything like that. Avoiding finishing in the bottom 6 would be an achievement at the moment.

Jol has managed to achieve much more than the previous managers we had in the last ten years.

[peterc]

It's those mind bending drugs you wanna give up ;) :p :D

No mate, it's called faith in the manager and team.

[TURKISH]

Jol has managed to achieve much more than the previous managers we had in the last ten years.

But look at the managers we have had in the last 10 years is it a suprise jol has finished 5th twice when looking at the aquad of players we have had pete?

The first season we finished 5th in hindsight we should of finished 4th. Carrick and davids was pivital to our success with the fact that ledley king played the whole season for once.

Results don't lie why aren't these players playing well for jol? Is jol repeating the same mistakes? Shit start again, can't defend, no left winger and no ****ing balance.

What a shit team selection if i was the manager lat night my team would of been

cerny
chimbo
lee
daws
kaboul
lennon
bale
hudd
zokora
berbs
defoe

A more attacking team to mj guttless team selection.
Instead of 3 defensive midfoelders across midfield. Does tainio deserve to start? Does robbo? Does berb? Does robbie?

All i know is that we will continue to make these mistakes. Roll on sunday....;

[Gino Ginelli]

Otherwise I might think you are being literal and they had a rap off where Reo-Coker stole the show and Barry with his cap turned sideways pull off a white boy rap to the expense of Tom the Hudd.

Out of this entire thread, this is the only thing that has gotten a rise out of me. ****ing hilarious.

[SurreySpur]

On what basis? Last time I would have been so dismissive of a forecast was KK's "Dawson and Lennon to score but we still won't win" about Chelsea last season. 2 all draw for me. No way Villa will leak 4 goals. Quite happy to be wrong about that.

Well i was right about us scoring four, unfortunatley i didnt see us conceding 4 too!!

[TURKISH]

The strikers are who i feel sorry for because they can't trust the defence to keep a clean sheet! They go into every game knowing they have to score more than 1.

:(

[TURKISH]

Well i was right about us scoring four, unfortunatley i didnt see us conceding 4 too!!

But does it surprise you surrey? lol

[choda]

But don't you realise, JJ is the reason we conceded 4 goals last night, JJ is the reason we're in the bottom 3. It's all JJ's fault!

To be making out Jenas is a scapegoat is glib and not well thought out. If you had listened to the people on this forum you'd know that it is only one of many problems, but it is a substantial one.

The biggest problem in our team is actually Robbo, actually make that Jol, because he picks Robbo, Jenas, Mal and Tainio on the wing and is responsible for the organisation problems and the huge gaps.

It's clear Jenas isn't better than mid-table but yet has been pinned up as the pivotal midfielder in a side that was supposed to be challenging the big boys. That's not scapegoating it's just pointing out that he's nowhere near that standard and it has hurt us badly in the last year, among many other Jol errors.

Jenas particularly sticks in the craw though because he swans about on the pitch like he's a great player, but his performances are apathetic and lacking a lot of quality. Plus Jol hails him as one of the best midfielders. It's a joke.

And it doesn't matter to me if he was on the pitch last night or not. That lends more weight to my arguement because it's not a knee jerk. I don't think from one game to the next like a lot of people. I gave him 16 months as a spurs player before I was fed up. That's very patient in my book.

[spursmadnick06]

Here's the hilights of the classic game if anyone's interested ...


http://www.dailymotion.com/search/tottenham%2C+aston/video/x3435c_tottenham-h-vs-aston-villa-goals-11_sport

[RuFuS]

No mate, it's called faith in the manager and team.

Now you've gone all religious :eek:

[TURKISH]

To be making out Jenas is a scapegoat is glib and not well thought out. If you had listened to the people on this forum you'd know that it is only one of many problems, but it is a substantial one.

The biggest problem in our team is actually Robbo, actually make that Jol, because he picks Robbo, Jenas, Mal and Tainio on the wing and is responsible for the organisation problems and the huge gaps.

It's clear Jenas isn't better than mid-table but yet has been pinned up as the pivotal midfielder in a side that was supposed to be challenging the big boys. That's not scapegoating it's just pointing out that he's nowhere near that standard and it has hurt us badly in the last year, among with the other Jol errors.

Jenas particularly sticks in the craw though because he swans about on the pitch like he's a great player, but his performances are apathetic and lacking a lot of quality. Plus Jol hails him as one of the best midfielders. It's a joke.

And it doesn't matter to me if he was on the pitch last night or not. That lends more weight to my arguement because it's not a knee jerk. I don't think from one game to the next like a lot of people. I gave him 16 months as a spurs player before I was fed up. That's very patient in my book.


Do you feel choda with our left wing problem we our better off playing bale left wing until january if we buy a winger? And play lee left back?

[choda]

But look at the managers we have had in the last 10 years is it a suprise jol has finished 5th twice when looking at the aquad of players we have had pete?

The first season we finished 5th in hindsight we should of finished 4th. Carrick and davids was pivital to our success with the fact that ledley king played the whole season for once.

Results don't lie why aren't these players playing well for jol? Is jol repeating the same mistakes? Shit start again, can't defend, no left winger and no ****ing balance.

What a shit team selection if i was the manager lat night my team would of been

cerny
chimbo
lee
daws
kaboul
lennon
bale
hudd
zokora
berbs
defoe

A more attacking team to mj guttless team selection.
Instead of 3 defensive midfoelders across midfield. Does tainio deserve to start? Does robbo? Does berb? Does robbie?

All i know is that we will continue to make these mistakes. Roll on sunday....;

Robbie, Defoe, Kaboul and Bale were the only reasons we didn't lose 4-1. Keane's head didn't go down along with Kaboul and Bale. Kaboul was actually the only player that seemed completely unaffected by all the troubles. I was very impressed by that. He looks like real captain material and one hell of a player for the future.

And I'm pissed off with the abuse Keane is getting, he doesn't deserve it. He is making the best of what he is getting, and is trying his hardest for the team. He was even running back to defend at 4-1.

As I say his head didn't go down where 6 or 7 of the other's heads did.

[Gino Ginelli]

Here's the hilights of the classic game if anyone's interested ...


http://www.dailymotion.com/search/tottenham%2C+aston/video/x3435c_tottenham-h-vs-aston-villa-goals-11_sport

Bloody hell, look at the marking for the 2nd goal. 6 players standing in a circle, with 3 Villa players all in the middle with all the time and space they want. That's shambolic.

[Gino Ginelli]

Do you feel choda with our left wing problem we our better off playing bale left wing until january if we buy a winger? And play lee left back?

I'll back this up. It seems bloody obvious to me.

Wonder how much that Martin Petrov is... oh wait a sec

[choda]

Do you feel choda with our left wing problem we our better off playing bale left wing until january if we buy a winger? And play lee left back?

Absolutely or Taara. I'd play Taara and Bale in behind him. You don't have to concern yourself with the other team so much if you just push out and tighten up your ship and have your players closer together. Then the possession will be much better too. We give it away far too easily.

Taara is a superstar and he needs to be developed in the team.

Plus Boeteng is surely the best central attacker we have, or Malbranque who never gets a try there. Boeteng had 14 assists last year, play the ****er, he has to be better.

[peterc]

But look at the managers we have had in the last 10 years is it a suprise jol has finished 5th twice when looking at the aquad of players we have had pete?

We have had some strong teams in those ten years but they still did not manage to get close to fifth place, both in the league or premiership.

The first season we finished 5th in hindsight we should of finished 4th. Carrick and davids was pivital to our success with the fact that ledley king played the whole season for once.

And Jol managed that team.


Results don't lie why aren't these players playing well for jol? Is jol repeating the same mistakes? Shit start again, can't defend, no left winger and no ****ing balance.

They played well against Man U, Derby, Fulham, M'Boro.

What a shit team selection if i was the manager lat night my team would of been

cerny
chimbo
lee
daws
kaboul
lennon
bale
hudd
zokora
berbs
defoe

A more attacking team to mj guttless team selection.
Instead of 3 defensive midfoelders across midfield. Does tainio deserve to start? Does robbo? Does berb? Does robbie?

All i know is that we will continue to make these mistakes. Roll on sunday....;

You seem to forget that our main weakness within the team is the defence, more attacking team when at one time we had three strikers on, is that not enough of strikers?. Sorry mate, but don't agree.

[peterc]

Now you've gone all religious :eek:

Religious or not mate, I am still confident that BMJ will turn things around soon.

[choda]

You seem to forget that our main weakness within the team is the defence, more attacking team when at one time we had three strikers on, is that not enough of strikers?. Sorry mate, but don't agree.

You just don't get it peter c, do you? It's not that we don't have enough defenders, that's not the problem, the problem is that we are not organised. You can't remove yourself from Jol worship so you can't even see the obvious.

We even had 3 defensive midfielders last night and conceded 4.

[jrio]

Well i was right about us scoring four, unfortunatley i didnt see us conceding 4 too!!

Ha, it was the first thing I thought of after the game! What an uncanny parallel to KK's Chelsea prediction. He forecast Dawson scoring(and Lennon), something which had never happened and a non-win; the unlikely former happened and the latter didn't. You forecast Villa conceding 4 goals, having conceded only one goal in their 2 away games, and a win; the unlikely former happened but not the win.

[TURKISH]

Robbie, Defoe, Kaboul and Bale were the only reasons we didn't lose 4-1. Keane's head didn't go down along with Kaboul and Bale. Kaboul was actually the only player that seemed completely unaffected by all the troubles. I was very impressed by that. He looks like real captain material and one hell of a player for the future.

And I'm pissed off with the abuse Keane is getting, he doesn't deserve it. He is making the best of what he is getting, and is trying his hardest for the team. He was even running back to defend at 4-1.

As I say his head didn't go down where 6 or 7 of the other's heads did.

I didn't mean keane had a bad game, i felt he empathiezed (soz bout spelling) our work rate, which hardly anyone follwed.

Kaboul gonna be a great player but there 3 goal he was out muscled by moore which mad him header the ball to gabby. He try to go round moore to head the ball when he should of just went through moore.

But kaboul seems like a great lad for the dressing room and he likes a goal.

Should i buy him for my dream team? :rolleyes: ...................maybe not with all the goal we concede lol.

[TURKISH]

You seem to forget that our main weakness within the team is the defence, more attacking team when at one time we had three strikers on, is that not enough of strikers?. Sorry mate, but don't agree.

Looking at our back 5 on paper we should be as solid as anyone, so why aren't we? Isn't it jol's job to make us a tight at the back? Rafa has tactics about zonal marking and do they have trouble like us at set pieces? Not saying we should go zonal but we don't seem to no where to stand when defending set pieces.

No real leader to lead us.

[jrio]

Absolutely or Taara. I'd play Taara and Bale in behind him. You don't have to concern yourself with the other team so much if you just push out and tighten up your ship and have your players closer together. Then the possession will be much better too. We give it away far too easily.

Taara is a superstar and he needs to be developed in the team.

Plus Boeteng is surely the best central attacker we have, or Malbranque who never gets a try there. Boeteng had 14 assists last year, play the ****er, he has to be better.

For the moment I'd restrict Taara to coming on as sub. When you're 18th and conceding 3 or more goals in half your games, it's not the time to take great risks. Lee and Bale would be my choice. It's premature to laud Boateng when he hasn't even come on as sub. I'd like to see him play against Blackpool to get a better idea of his ability. In the reserves footage he looks very able, but some reports cite him as being rather languid and not up to the pace of the prem as yet.

Unfortunately there are no signs Jol is likely to make any innovative changes. I fear we could ship another 4 goals on Sunday without reply.

[TURKISH]

I'll back this up. It seems bloody obvious to me.

Wonder how much that Martin Petrov is... oh wait a sec

Every time i watch motd i feel sick to the stomach about petrov he is class!

Ray charles could of scouted him!:cool:

[TURKISH]

For the moment I'd restrict Taara to coming on as sub. When you're 18th and conceding 3 or more goals in half your games, it's not the time to take great risks. Lee and Bale would be my choice. It's premature to laud Boateng when he hasn't even come on as sub. I'd like to see him play against Blackpool to get a better idea of his ability. In the reserves footage he looks very able, but some reports cite him as being rather languid and not up to the pace of the prem as yet.

Unfortunately there are no signs Jol is likely to make any innovative changes. I fear we could ship another 4 goals on Sunday without reply.

Yer i can't see keeping any clean sheets at the moment. And do you remember hoddle had this problem before he got sacked couldn't keep a clean sheet. But Next game was against liverpool away and guess what we kept a clean sheet 0.0 with big tony at the back.

[choda]

For the moment I'd restrict Taara to coming on as sub. When you're 18th and conceding 3 or more goals in half your games, it's not the time to take great risks. Lee and Bale would be my choice. It's premature to laud Boateng when he hasn't even come on as sub. I'd like to see him play against Blackpool to get a better idea of his ability. In the reserves footage he looks very able, but some reports cite him as being rather languid and not up to the pace of the prem as yet.

Unfortunately there are no signs Jol is likely to make any innovative changes. I fear we could ship another 4 goals on Sunday without reply.

Fair enough about Taara, if in the hotseat I'd probably start that way too. As for central midfield I'd put in Tainio as the holding player for now and I'd put in Boeteng or Malbranque. They wouldn't be worse, that's for sure, so I don't see a risk there.

[jrio]

Bloody hell, look at the marking for the 2nd goal. 6 players standing in a circle, with 3 Villa players all in the middle with all the time and space they want. That's shambolic.
The free-kick is an almost carbon copy of the one conceded against Everton, except then it was Zokora's foot that took it over Robbo. The wall's badly lined-up and too passive, and Robbo struggled because the shot was very low.

[choda]

I didn't mean keane had a bad game, i felt he empathiezed (soz bout spelling) our work rate, which hardly anyone follwed.

Kaboul gonna be a great player but there 3 goal he was out muscled by moore which mad him header the ball to gabby. He try to go round moore to head the ball when he should of just went through moore.

But kaboul seems like a great lad for the dressing room and he likes a goal.

Should i buy him for my dream team? :rolleyes: ...................maybe not with all the goal we concede lol.

I agree with you there. I for one am proud of Keane this year. It's hard leading the line up there at the mo and he's putting in some performances and is trying hard all the time.

[SurreySpur]

For the moment I'd restrict Taara to coming on as sub. When you're 18th and conceding 3 or more goals in half your games, it's not the time to take great risks. Lee and Bale would be my choice. It's premature to laud Boateng when he hasn't even come on as sub. I'd like to see him play against Blackpool to get a better idea of his ability. In the reserves footage he looks very able, but some reports cite him as being rather languid and not up to the pace of the prem as yet.

Unfortunately there are no signs Jol is likely to make any innovative changes. I fear we could ship another 4 goals on Sunday without reply.

I completely agree, This is definaltey not the time to be playing Taraabt. There's no doubting his talent but blooding him in such a poor team that is lacking in confidence could hamper his development. Ronaldo and Fabregas came into successfull/established teams that play attacking football so that made developing them easier.
Taarabt is much more raw than either of the other two and i feel he needs to be introduced to first team action very very carefully.

[jrio]

Fair enough about Taara, if in the hotseat I'd probably start that way too. As for central midfield I'd put in Tainio as the holding player for now and I'd put in Boeteng or Malbranque. They wouldn't be worse, that's for sure, so I don't see a risk there.
Unfortunately Jol seems to have Boateng marked out as back-up to Lennon on the right, something he mentioned when Ghaly came back(apparently he's in Egypt with the club's blessing). So he's far more likely to make his first appearance there. Presumably it'll be JJ and Zokora against Liverpool. With Toon away afterwards, that's the 2 grounds in a row where last year JJ ran about 80 yards to get on the end of a chance only to fluff it with an open goal.

[spurs61]

Just a quick comment to say that Kaboul does look like a natural leader and yes Lee should be playing behind Bale, he's played well towards the back of last season and the begining of this and should be in the side on merit.

[peterc]

You just don't get it peter c, do you? It's not that we don't have enough defenders, that's not the problem, the problem is that we are not organised. You can't remove yourself from Jol worship so you can't even see the obvious.

Excuse me Choda, I said that our main weakness is in defence, I never mentioned anything whatsover about bringing in more defenders, where on earth did you get that one from?. Choda, it seems you might need to have break, a bit obvious to all that our defence needs better organisation and a stronger leader (within the defence) to guide them.
We even had 3 defensive midfielders last night and conceded 4.
Here again, I never mentioned any increases to our defence but more leadership, concentration and organisation.

[choda]

Only corollary to that is he'll never score a goal(literally) whereas Jenas will score several, sometimes spectacularly as against Arsenal. Neither are good enough. Jenas will never realise his potential, currently only about 65% of what it could be. Zokora does many things quite well but that's overshadowed by his many faults.

My opinion is we have no trouble scoring goals whoever we play in the centre. Last year when Tainio was in there in the Jenas role he started to peg in a few.

But Tainio or Zokora make us look far more solid in there both defensively and in the build up. I think that will lead to less conceded and more scored by the team over the year.

Mind you I agree we really need Zokora to live up to his billing or he's not good enough either, but he or Tainio is still better in the short term if you ask me. Perhaps much better.

The goals last night were not down to a soft centered midfield were they? They were set pieces or basic defending errors.

[mjbmedia]

three of the goals were the keepers fault last night. if Robbo hadnt cocked up we may have waltzed it easier , he did , we didnt but we showed bottle to battle back and it was down to Jols subs and new tactics that we did battle back, it was down to Robbos cock ups that we were 4-1 down , drop Robbo for sure yes , but praise those who deserve it for the comeback.

[Gino Ginelli]

But Tainio or Zokora make us look far more solid in there both defensively and in the build up. I think that will leads to less conceded and more scored by the team over the year.

Mind you I agree we really need Zokora to live up to his billing or he's not good enough either, but he or Tainio is still better in the short term if you ask me. Perhaps much better.

I always thought that our best run last season was when we had Tainio & Zokora in CM, with Lennon right. Ok Steed was LW but if Bale could play there until January, with Lee behind him then maybe that old stability and then some would come back.

[jrio]

three of the goals were the keepers fault last night. if Robbo hadnt cocked up we may have waltzed it easier , he did , we didnt but we showed bottle to battle back and it was down to Jols subs and new tactics that we did battle back, it was down to Robbos cock ups that we were 4-1 down , drop Robbo for sure yes , but praise those who deserve it for the comeback.
Harewood, one of O'Neill's subs, also played a major part in our comeback. :o

[choda]

Here again, I never mentioned any increases to our defence but more leadership, concentration and organisation.

Oh just go and put on your cock outfit. Lol.

Look on the bright side. You might meet some bird who was on a cheerleaders forum talking shite and was made to dress up as a vagina and she might be up for the dry ride.

[choda]

I always thought that our best run last season was when we had Tainio & Zokora in CM, with Lennon right. Ok Steed was LW but if Bale could play there until January, with Lee behind him then maybe that old stability and then some would come back.

That what I thought as well. Tainio got 2 in 6 during that run as our central attacking mid. I think Tainio is being made to look like a clown played out wide. He's not as versatile as they make out, nowhere near actually.

[peterc]

three of the goals were the keepers fault last night. if Robbo hadnt cocked up we may have waltzed it easier , he did , we didnt but we showed bottle to battle back and it was down to Jols subs and new tactics that we did battle back, it was down to Robbos cock ups that we were 4-1 down , drop Robbo for sure yes , but praise those who deserve it for the comeback.
According to the anti Jol critics, Jol messed up again, but we still managed to comeback from a three goal deficit. They need to stop moaning like old grannies and face reality that mighty BMJ is not going anyway and will yet again prove his critics wrong.

[jrio]

That what I thought as well. Tainio got 2 in 6 during that run as our central attacking mid. I think Tainio is being made to look like a clown played out wide. He's not as versatile as they make out, nowhere near actually.
With Bale and Taara for the left, and Mal and Lennon able to cover the right, there's no real excuse for playing him on the flanks now.

[peterc]

Oh just go and put on your cock outfit. Lol.

Look on the bright side. You might meet some bird who was on a cheerleaders forum talking shite and was made to dress up as a vagina and she might be up for the dry ride.
p]


That just shows your education level and mentality, proven wrong again and you start going back to insults. Says alot for you and a few others on this forum.

[choda]

With Bale and Taara for the left, and Mal and Lennon able to cover the right, there's no real excuse for playing him on the flanks now.

No, but to a lesser extent I'd never let Mal play out wide again either. I'd rather play Jenas out wide right than Mal. In fact it's probably Jenas's best position, even though he can't cross for shit. But he could power into the space with his pace.

[jrio]

According to the anti Jol critics, Jol messed up again, but we still managed to comeback from a three goal deficit. They need to stop moaning like old grannies and face reality that mighty BMJ is not going anyway and will yet again prove his critics wrong.

We're actually Jol critics. You're the anti-Jol critic.

[peterc]

We're actually Jol critics. You're the anti-Jol critic.

My apologies for my error, something that is extremely hard to find on this forum, is one who accepts making mistakes, and I can assure you there are loads of them. But, there again, it's a forum.

[jrio]

No, but to a lesser extent I'd never let Mal play out wide again either. I'd rather play Jenas out wide right than Mal. In fact it's probably Jenas's best position, even though he can't cross for shit. But he could power into the space with his pace.

I've been distinctly unimpressed with Jenas on the right. He doesn't like playing there and it really shows. It also negates his main asset which is scoring goals from midfield. At least out wide Mal can still score goals and set-up chances, something that both Tainio and Jenas struggle to do from there.

[choda]

p]


That just shows your education level and mentality, proven wrong again and you start going back to insults. Says alot for you and a few others on this forum.

My education level. LOL. You can barely spell Peter and your intellect and knowledge is so pathetic you make a dungbeetles look like little Einteins.

And you've all the reasoning of a bull elephant in mating season.

Proven wrong. LOL.

[jrio]

My apologies for my error, something that is extremely hard to find on this forum, is one who accepts making mistakes, and I can assure you there are loads of them. But, there again, it's a forum.

What you don't appreciate is that most of us have been Jol backers from the start of his tenure, even when we had long periods of mediocrity last season. What has finally ended our backing is the sheer dismal quality of the defending - the endless conceding from deadballs, negative tactics when leading and seeing Robbo repeatedly picked to continue his buffoonish displays in goal. Jol just looks like a man waiting to leave with his pay-off. Not that I'm unsympathetic to that latter attitude. That's solely the fault of Levy.

[RuFuS]

Religious or not mate, I am still confident that BMJ will turn things around soon.

Off to the promised land are we ?

[peterc]

My education level. LOL. You can barely spell Peter and your intellect and knowledge is so pathetic you make a dungbeetles look like little Einteins.

And you've all the reasoning of a bull elephant in mating season.

Proven wrong. LOL.
So sounds like you like reading about insects. Best stick to it, cos your knowledge on football is similar to a your pathetic remarks.

[choda]

I've been distinctly unimpressed with Jenas on the right. He doesn't like playing there and it really shows. It also negates his main asset which is scoring goals from midfield. At least out wide Mal can still score goals and set-up chances, something that both Tainio and Jenas struggle to do from there.

Well Jenas never got a run out there like Mal has. Mal hasn't been scoring that many has he? Or doing much of anything except runnign hi little sicks off down blind alley ways for not much end poduct. I actually can't stand him out wide but I'd prefer it too Tainio out there who is a total central player.

Your point about Jeans is he scores some goals but he's a toal laibilty in other ways, and that means team wise we suffer more in terms of team goals scored/conceded. At least out right he would provide some pace and could bomb up and down when he has opportunity to do it and get into scoring and crossing positions like he does in the centre. He'd probably **** many of them up but he'd be more of a threat than mal if you ask me and he'd be able to be dramatic with his pace and stamina without the worst liabilties.

[peterc]

What you don't appreciate is that most of us have been Jol backers from the start of his tenure, even when we had long periods of mediocrity last season. What has finally ended our backing is the sheer dismal quality of the defending - the endless conceding from deadballs, negative tactics when leading and seeing Robbo repeatedly picked to continue his buffoonish displays in goal. Jol just looks like a man waiting to leave with his pay-off. Not that I'm unsympathetic to that latter attitude. That's solely the fault of Levy.

Well, you would have fooled me there mate. I would say it's more Kelmsey's fault, he is the main culprit seems to have started stirring things up.

[choda]

So sounds like you like reading about insects. Best stick to it, cos your knowledge on football is similar to a your pathetic remarks.

Just because I know about dungbeetles and that they are full of shit it doesn't mean I read about them. It's called basic knowledge Peter.

And yea I need to learn more about the football, maybe some day I'll come up to your knowledge Peter. And perhaps if I learn about spelling and how to string some sentences together I could put it across as well as you.

And then if I just learn to reason I could be as truly masterful as you too in making an arguement. You're my hero Peter.

[peterc]

Just because I know about dungbeetles and that they are full of shit it doesn't mean I read about them. It's called basic knowledge Peter.


I am amazed about your knowledge as regards to shit. I wonder why?????

And yea I need to learn more about the football, maybe some day I'll come up to your knowledge Peter. And perhaps if I learn about spelling and how to string some sentences together I could put it across as well as you.

And then if I just learn to reason I could be as truly masterful as you too in making an arguement. You're my hero Peter.

Talking about spelling, check how one would spell arguement correctly, you will find out it's spelt argument. Well done intellect Choda.

[choda]

I'm basing it on Levy lacking the courage to dispense with Jol in the summer, when he was afraid of a fan backlash, one I'd have thought would have been lessened by the capitulations against Chelsea, Arsenal and Sevilla, and the seeming disharmony between Jol and Commoli. I don't buy all the stories that appeared crediting Commoli with a large measure of Arsenal's buys(clearly from this season that's bollocks) and claiming that Jol wanted to sell Berba and buy Crouch. Levy lacks the courage of his convictions, seemingly too bent on cooking up schemes to tempt Spurs fans from emptying their pockets. My view is that once Arnesen left, Levy was left with a coach he didn't originally want to appoint and then seemed to appoint someone designed to side with him and undermine Jol. It doesn't detract from Jol's complacency and bumbling, but it also does great discredit to Levy.

I stick by my previous comments I've made regarding the money, no point in going over old ground.

And in the summer I wouldn't have sacked Jol to be fair. I thought he deserved time to clear up the problems which may well (at the time) for all we knew have been down to development like he said, and he had done pretty well up that point. But then from sunderland it was clear we were in for the same shit. All the errors and team selection mistakes were still there in abundance.

I can't blame the board for having the same reactions I did.

And saying he brought in Commoli for those reasons is just more innuendo and in my opinion fairly outragous speculation. At that time Levy was surely behind Jol, everyone was.

Do you really think Arnesan was able to bring someone in without Levy's say so? After all he apparently appointed Santini against Arnesan's advise first of all.

The director might advise Levy, but he does the hiring and firing of the managers.

[choda]

Talking about spelling, check how one would spell arguement correctly, you will find out it's spelt argument. Well done intellect Choda.

Got me there Peter, but everyone makes mistakes. Even writers misspell words sometimes.

[peterc]

Got me there Peter, but everyone makes mistakes. Even writers misspell words sometimes.

Everyone makes mistakes, but two wrongs don't make a right.

[jrio]

I stick by my previous comments I've made regarding the money, no point in going over old ground.

And in the summer I wouldn't have sacked Jol to be fair. I thought he deserved time to clear up the problems which may well (at the time) for all we knew have been down to development like he said, and he had done pretty well up that point. But then from sunderland it was clear we were in for the same shit. All the errors and team selection mistakes were still there in abundance.

I can't blame the board for having the same reactions I did.

And saying he brought in Commoli for those reasons is just more innuendo and in my opinion fairly outragous speculation. At that time Levy was surely behind Jol, everyone was.

Do you really think Arnesan was able to bring someone in without Levy's say so? After all he apparently appointed Santini against Arnesan's advise first of all.

The director might advise Levy, but he does the hiring and firing of the managers.

Levy does have a history of losing managers within the first few months of a season. You can't decide after one game that you should have sacked the manager in the summer. In our position you either bite the bullet in the summer or see out the season. Levy's done neither with the overtures to Ramos.

A lot of what we post is speculation and supposition. Levy looked extremely foolish after disregarding Arnesen's judgement and I feel was wary of Jol after Arnesen left. Do we have any reason to think Commoli's done an outstanding job? You'll have seen Dragon1's assessment of Commoli, a charmer whose purchases have done nothing to correct an unbalanced squad. Obviously Jol and Commoli don't work in any sort of harmony. Levy's vulnerable because he's been too cowardly to sack the manager and wanted the fans to turn against him so he could.

Remember Abramovich sacking Ranieri? They'd finished second and lost their CL semi in similar circumstances to the way Jol screwed up our 3-1 lead in the FAC against Chelsea. Ranieri was very popular with the fans and most of them didn't want him sacked. You have to have the courage of your convictions and if Levy could have been sure of appointing Ramos or someone of similar stature then he should have done it. But he wanted to escape the responsibility and still take credit for success at the club. Lucky you're not on the board choda, or you'd be getting some of the opprobrium aimed at Kemsley.

[Spur]

Right guys, been without internet for a few days, that's why it's been peaceful on here, what's the general consensus when it came to the game?

What did the people who were there think?

[choda]

Levy does have a history of losing managers within the first few months of a season. You can't decide after one game that you should have sacked the manager in the summer. In our position you either bite the bullet in the summer or see out the season. Levy's done neither with the overtures to Ramos.

A lot of what we post is speculation and supposition. Levy looked extremely foolish after disregarding Arnesen's judgement and I feel was wary of Jol after Arnesen left. Do we have any reason to think Commoli's done an outstanding job? You'll have seen Dragon1's assessment of Commoli, a charmer whose purchases have done nothing to correct an unbalanced squad. Obviously Jol and Commoli don't work in any sort of harmony. Levy's vulnerable because he's been too cowardly to sack the manager and wanted the fans to turn against him so he could.

Remember Abramovich sacking Ranieri? They'd finished second and lost their CL semi in similar circumstances to the way Jol screwed up our 3-1 lead in the FAC against Chelsea. Ranieri was very popular with the fans and most of them didn't want him sacked. You have to have the courage of your convictions and if Levy could have been sure of appointing Ramos or someone of similar stature then he should have done it. But he wanted to escape the responsibility and still take credit for success at the club. Lucky you're not on the board choda, or you'd be getting some of the opprobrium aimed at Kemsley.

Yea, but I'm not fat. Lol.

And you can't care about that, you just have to do your job the best way you see fit for all concerned. I think they have done a great job, aside from getting caught cosying up with Ramos.

I do understand what you are saying with regard to making the change in the summer, but aren't you of the same view as me? You thought Jol deserved his shot at this summer to sort it out, but quickly into the games you realised it was going to be the same or worse?

[choda]

Right guys, been without internet for a few days, that's why it's been peaceful on here, what's the general consensus when it came to the game?

What did the people who were there think?

Read the posts you lazy bollocks.

[jrio]

Right guys, been without internet for a few days, that's why it's been peaceful on here, what's the general consensus when it came to the game?

What did the people who were there think?
Yeah, nothing to see, move on, move on. :D

[Spur]

Read the posts you lazy bollocks.

Do you realise how long that is?

C'mon, do people think it were good, bad, ugly?

Is Jol quality now or still rubbish?

And how did people take to Robinson giving the ball to Laursen and then letting in a free-kick and one through his legs? Did everyone like it?

[jrio]

I do understand what you are saying with regard to making the change in the summer, but aren't you of the same view as me? You thought Jol deserved his shot at this summer to sort it out, but quickly into the games you realised it was going to be the same or worse?
Yes, largely because we've spent the last 15 years changing manager every 2 years and Jol brought an integrity and dignity to the club. My confidence was greatly dented by the inability to win the Chelsea FA tie, something I attribute wholly to Jol. It was on a plate and he snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.

I just think once Levy's let him take charge for the season he's got to stick with him. He looks craven and deceitful with all the antics that have gone on, and it's not just in relation to Jol. Banning the Standard and omitting Roberts from yesterday because both had been critical. Like something you'd expect from a banana republic.

Frankly a large part of my ire has now switched to Robbo. Blatantly incompetent and dragging the team down. It's easy to drop him and keep face - make up an injury. FFS, Jol needs to get a grip, something that would be a whole lot easier if Levy comprehensively assured him he will not be sacked this season. That should be easy because what's the alternative? There is no one of any quality who could and would be willing to come in. I don't think we'll be relegated but we could easily finish 17th.

[spurs61]

Do you realise how long that is?

C'mon, do people think it were good, bad, ugly?

Is Jol quality now or still rubbish?

And how did people take to Robinson giving the ball to Laursen and then letting in a free-kick and one through his legs? Did everyone like it?


What's your name? Chimbonda?? You lazy little sod, we all had to read every post! :p

Jol is officially still rubbish (unless your name is Peter in which case he's better then Capello, Lippi, Bill Nick and Bill Shankly rolled into one), his substitutions last night reminded me of MacLaren with Boro in the UEFA Cup a few seasons back, three goals down and no idea what to do so he just throws on attacker after attacker in the vague hope that something will come off. He's very lucky to have a job today.

Robbo (or Boobo as I know call him) would have been shot if he were a thoroughbred racehorse, as it is he's a Northern carthorse. (sorry for using the N word Gino;) )

Read GS post for how we all felt, I'm still angry as I type now! It was ugly in the extreme.

[Spur]

Robbo (or Boobo as I know call him) would have been shot if he were a thoroughbred racehorse, as it is he's a Northern carthorse. (sorry for using the N word Gino;) )

What a suck-up!

You just want to be on the pitch when Gino names his next team!

[Gino Ginelli]

Frankly a large part of my ire has now switched to Robbo. Blatantly incompetent and dragging the team down. It's easy to drop him and keep face - make up an injury.

TO be fair there's no need too make anything up. Paul Robinson this season is suffering a near catastrophic loss of form and confidence. I have no idea if he's had a personal crisis, or if the club's antics have been getting to him, but Jol is completely in his rights to drop him for a few games, just as Allardyce has done with Given, as a result of his problems.

Tell you what, having Hans bleeding Segers as your coach can't help. Can we not get in Jennings or even Erik Thorstvedt in to help?

[Spur]

On what basis? Last time I would have been so dismissive of a forecast was KK's "Dawson and Lennon to score but we still won't win" about Chelsea last season. 2 all draw for me. No way Villa will leak 4 goals. Quite happy to be wrong about that.

That was me you bastard!

And you said that neither would score!

[Gino Ginelli]

as it is he's a Northern carthorse. (sorry for using the N word Gino;) ).

S'alright mate, just cause he's a carthorse doesn't make all of us northerners so. But he and our other Yorkshiremen, Dawson, are letting the county down right now!

[jrio]

'61 did you see much of the 80s games or are you too young? I'd been thinking of the '83 LC QF against Burnley when we took the lead 5 minutes after ht and lost 4-1 at home. In our first home game of the '81 season we lost 4-0 to Wham, albeit missing half a side. Then Villa came and beat us 3-1 at home. Seems to have been a lot of potential vulnerability against the claret and blues, although there have also been the reverses - 5-0 against Wham in LC in '87 and 5-1 against Villa 2 seasons ago.

[spurs61]

What a suck-up!

You just want to be on the pitch when Gino names his next team!

:o :o :o ;)

You know it! Nothing wrong with a little brown tongue, ask Jenas.

[Gino Ginelli]

What a suck-up!

You just want to be on the pitch when Gino names his next team!

Hey, I picked that team on nothing but the individuals merit, and the fact that I just went with whosever name I could remember next!

These scandalous rumours of favourites must stop! It's not like I put Steed Malbranque in at LB...

[spurs61]

'61 did you see much of the 80s games or are you too young? I'd been thinking of the '83 LC QF against Burnley when we took the lead 5 minutes after ht and lost 4-1 at home. In our first home game of the '81 season we lost 4-0 to Wham, albeit missing half a side. Then Villa came and beat us 3-1 at home. Seems to have been a lot of potential vulnerability against the claret and blues, although there have also been the reverses - 5-0 against Wham in LC in '87 and 5-1 against Villa 2 seasons ago.

I was four in '83! I can remember anything from '86 onwards when I got my first season ticket. What happened last night is symptomatic of a sickness that has enveloped the club since the mid-80's. Big Time Charlie syndrome in it's most fundamental guise.

[jrio]

That was me you bastard!

And you said that neither would score!
Was that you? I couldn't be sure who it was and wasn't going to check, feeling that whoever it was would swiftly rebut me. I picked KK because he started making predictions round January time and forecast we'd lose 4-0 to United(we did but he didn't really believe it).

Yes, I didn't believe either would score but your prediction was utterly ridiculous(Dawson who'd never scored and always had his efforts just wide or blocked and Lennon who scored once in a blue moon, both scoring against Chelsea). I think I compared it to the idea of Earth being hit by an asteroid or a similar concept. Crucially you still didn't think we'd win. I agreed with that part. :D

[choda]

Yes, largely because we've spent the last 15 years changing manager every 2 years and Jol brought an integrity and dignity to the club. My confidence was greatly dented by the inability to win the Chelsea FA tie, something I attribute wholly to Jol. It was on a plate and he snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.

I just think once Levy's let him take charge for the season he's got to stick with him. He looks craven and deceitful with all the antics that have gone on, and it's not just in relation to Jol. Banning the Standard and omitting Roberts from yesterday because both had been critical. Like something you'd expect from a banana republic.

Frankly a large part of my ire has now switched to Robbo. Blatantly incompetent and dragging the team down. It's easy to drop him and keep face - make up an injury. FFS, Jol needs to get a grip, something that would be a whole lot easier if Levy comprehensively assured him he will not be sacked this season. That should be easy because what's the alternative? There is no one of any quality who could and would be willing to come in. I don't think we'll be relegated but we could easily finish 17th.

I agree about banning Roberts. That was a very small thing to do, as least as far as I can tell. He is entitled to his opinion on the club. A paper printing constant lies I can understand, but Roberts was just expressing a view on the club he cares for.

I think there are many that could do better job than Jol. I mean ffs look at he squad we have, it's bristling with talent.

And it is better to make a change sometimes during a season. Santini and Jol is a good example, isn't it? There's no point holding onto a guy with no future. The club is in a Jol and 'Ramos affair becoming public' enduced coma to which the only solution is to clear the coaching deck both for this year and the future.

I'm so fed up of Jol now I reckon they should get a caretaker, if they can't get the long-term guy who will bring the stability you are talking about. I mean we all thought Jol was that man, but if he's not good enough then stability is not going to follow anyway.

I think you know I'm all for patience, but if you give a guy time and money and you see this shit he has to go right now and move on and get the right man and the stability going again. Hopefully you can get he right man to take the job for many years like the successful ones. But that stability has mainly come because they have done a good job and kept their job, right?

As for people taking the job, I still think it is a great job to have. A squad like we have and more money to spend is a manager's dream. It is an attracitve proposition or should be. Particularly since the only way is up from where we are.

[jrio]

Santini wasn't sacked though, he did resign in the true sense. Usually making a change during a season results in relegation or similar.

I'm fed up of Jol but the situation can always get worse. I've a feeling you equate the loss of Jol to no automatic Jenas selection!

I think we're in the second tier of jobs that top managers want. It's just all about CL.

[choda]

Santini wasn't sacked though, he did resign in the true sense. Usually making a change during a season results in relegation or similar.

I'm fed up of Jol but the situation can always get worse. I've a feeling you equate the loss of Jol to no automatic Jenas selection!

I think we're in the second tier of jobs that top managers want. It's just all about CL.

You hear Capello say that he wants a challenge, something a bit different. He is one who might take it. He took Roma when they were in a similar situation.

And yes I'm hoping it will mean no Jenas or at least somebody who can get far more from him.

Hell, as I've said I rated Jenas and Defoe pre-Jol. Maybe they would be new men under somebody else.

And plenty of managers have come in and done well. You are maybe referring to small teams that start badly and then appoint somebody of equal ability and they still go down.

I don't see a problem, you just need somebody who knows what they are doing.

It's not about emotions here really, it's just about competency. A good manager could walk into spurs and change things around almost immediately.

I mean we are outlining the problems with easy clarity.

A new keeper would most likely sort most of the set piece issues as Robbo doesn't come or if he does he often makes a shit of it. As opposed to the much maligned James who just comes for everything. How do you quantify how many goals he prevents even when he gets caught an odd time?

And I'm not talking about when he rushes out 60 yards. He must be on rapeseed oil when he does that. Lol.

So bring in Cerny for now anyway. Next get the organisation better on the set pieces too. Make sure nobody is going to sleep, getting wrong side or not competing with everything they have.

Next make sure the defensive line is correct. Have the centre backs aware that you want them to step up as often as possible to a good position, high enough to squeeze, but not enough to leave gallops in behind. This will make us so much better not only defensively but also in passing the ball as the players will be closer together.

Next Jenas, **** off. Zokora and Tainio are in there as the most solid partnership we have for now, with a view to pretty soon trying out Boeteng and Mal in there to see how they get on in the attacking role. Lee is left back, Bale is left wing and Lennon right. Taara is primed and ready on the bench and we will see how he develops and how he does from the bench for now.

Up top it's Keane and Defoe on form, the others will get chances of course. And when the team gets going again it will most likely turn out to be Berba and Keane/Bent as the front pairing. There are many games anyway.

Next you tell them to win their 50/50's, be first to the loose balls and win their personal battles like their lives depend on it. Win the war so you can play your football. And when defending concentrate, keep the shape and be aware, press the ball or if somebody is doing that go with the runner.

And finally we move the ball out from the back and keep it rolling always. Pass it forward, if you can, if you can't pass it square, but always keep the ball moving and get some good movement going. Always have the moral courage to play football, the way it should be played. Get good early crosses in.

And everybody has to be fit and in good shape.

Everybody knows what is expected of them as a team and individually.

There you go Jrio, that's not anything to do with stability or emotional concerns. It's just exactly what the team needs.

Plus you can prep the boys up and get them believing again. Speak to them individually and collectively and tell them what you plan and tell them they are your players and you believe in them. And of course the team talks and substitutions have to be spot on, when changes are required.

And in January/Summer try to get a class central midfleder (perhaps two) to play with whoever is doing the business. Buy a new keeper and another left-sided player. Then Bob is one's uncle. That's a title-challenging team.

[mjbmedia]

what? sorry mate but we've never seen you rate Defoe ever.!!!!

still you are entitled to change your mind now that he looks our most dangerous player as and when he plays :rolleyes: just dont expect anyone to take much notice of what you say so 'definitely' in future ;)

[singapore spur]

just read through the whole thread , so many comments to make but a few things

1) comparing jol's position to fergie's from 20 years ago is unrealistic , football has moved on , the rewards are so much greater now, so corporate pressure dictates quick success unfortunatly

2) peter , peter , peter ......

3) on paper ,individually , our defence looks great , failure to work as a unit comes from poor organisation which is a result of poor work on the training field , chris hughton and jol have to shoulder the majority of blame

4) peter , peter , peter .......

5) robbo , maybe for his own sake has to be dropped , his lack of form and confidence can only be hurting the rest of the defence

6) peter, peter , peter .....

7) lennon, in my opinion confirmed he is not a 90 minute player , when he is poor , he is a missing man , we looked as though we had 10 men for most of the game and this led to a whole host of other problems

8) bale , with lee behind looks the better left sided combination

9) oh i forgot , peter , peter, peter.....

10) defoe has to start , i would pair him with berby, think he would thrive on the clever stuff berby can do where as keane is having to play too deep or too wide to capitalise .

11) C.O.Y.S

12) watching pictures of levy in the crowd on monday night , he looked like a cold, emotionless, wet fish , who was more intrested in plotting corporate and machevellian schemes than actually caring about spurs .
he alsmost looked smug when we were 4-1 down as though that justifys his own personal agenda . as a fan , as he claims to be , you never want to see your club in that position , you should be pulling your hair out ( ok thats a bit tough for him ) at every sloppy pass , bungled goal conceded etc

12) peter , peter , peter ......

13) get well soon ledley , please please please get well soon

[mjbmedia]

12) watching pictures of levy in the crowd on monday night , he looked like a cold, emotionless, wet fish , who was more intrested in plotting corporate and machevellian schemes than actually caring about spurs .
he alsmost looked smug when we were 4-1 down as though that justifys his own personal agenda . as a fan , as he claims to be , you never want to see your club in that position , you should be pulling your hair out ( ok thats a bit tough for him ) at every sloppy pass , bungled goal conceded etc


NO NO NO I wont have that, when Kaboul equalised Levy was on his feet smiling and applauding frantically , i thought he almost wanted to go mental , now the bird next to him, she was a damp squib.

Slight irony there to be sure.

End of the season that point could be so important , in either direction :o

[singapore spur]

NO NO NO I wont have that, when Kaboul equalised Levy was on his feet smiling and applauding frantically , i thought he almost wanted to go mental , now the bird next to him, she was a damp squib.

Slight irony there to be sure.

End of the season that point could be so important , in either direction :o


ok fair enough , i didnt see that , maybe i was cracking a beer open or something ,but whenever i saw him he seemed very smug and mini-me like

[peterc]

1) comparing jol's position to fergie's from 20 years ago is unrealistic , football has moved on , the rewards are so much greater now, so corporate pressure dictates quick success unfortunatly


Football has moved on, fair enough, but humans are human and mistakes will be made, some more than others, are you Mr Perfect, just asking?:rolleyes:

[choda]

what? sorry mate but we've never seen you rate Defoe ever.!!!!

still you are entitled to change your mind now that he looks our most dangerous player as and when he plays :rolleyes: just dont expect anyone to take much notice of what you say so 'definitely' in future ;)

Sorry to disappoint you mate but I still don't rate him. It's not so simple as rate him, don't rate him and never play them in the opposite.

Defoe is looking sharp and Berba and Bent are not looking in any kind of form, so I would like Defoe to come in and get a chance. He'll probably do my head in again in time and the others will most likely return to form, but just because I don't rate him doesn't mean I'd never like to see him get a chance.

Plus I did rate him before Jol got his hands on him! Same with Jenas! Not that it's likely to be Jol's fault, I don't think so anyway.

[spursmadnick06]

Would Spurs have got themselves into a situation of being 4-1 down with JJ in the center on Monday night? i tend to think not.

The stats will tell you that we play better with Jenas in the side, i don't think thats a coincedence.

[Welsh Spur]

Would Spurs have got themselves into a situation of being 4-1 down with JJ in the center on Monday night? i tend to think not.

The stats will tell you that we play better with Jenas in the side, i don't think thats a coincedence.

Maybe that's why he keeps getting picked....Is Jol a bit of a Statto?

[choda]

Would Spurs have got themselves into a situation of being 4-1 down with JJ in the center on Monday night? i tend to think not.

The stats will tell you that we play better with Jenas in the side, i don't think thats a coincedence.

What ****ing stats? Based on one season where the team was awful for the first half of the year when Jenas was there or not and then turned its form by closing down sessions with Zokora and Tainio and continued to do well. It was **** all to do with Jenas. Sorry, but that's complete and utter tosh.

Plus take a look at the goals the other night before you make your rash comments. One was a howler from Robbo, the other was a cross, the next was a long ball break and the last was a free kick where robbo made another balls of it. This is not to mention that we have conceded how many this year with Jenas in the team? And many of those also came from the centre of the pitch.

[jrio]

Would Spurs have got themselves into a situation of being 4-1 down with JJ in the center on Monday night? i tend to think not.

The stats will tell you that we play better with Jenas in the side, i don't think thats a coincedence.

This is a favourite topic of fans when Jenas isn't in the team and we lose or concede a lot of goals. Plenty of games where we lost heavily with JJ in the side last season - 3 nil to Pool and Arse and 4 nil to United - and 3-1 at home to Everton and Arse this season. Stats will tell you we've never been 4-1 down after an hour at home wearing that replica Blackburn kit.

[Gino Ginelli]

Would Spurs have got themselves into a situation of being 4-1 down with JJ in the center on Monday night? i tend to think not.

The stats will tell you that we play better with Jenas in the side, i don't think thats a coincedence.

My knee jerk reaction to this is that it'd have made no difference as those goals were for the most part complete flukes, and for the rest shambolic goalkeeping/defending. Also there's the fact that I've considered JJ to be complete wank since his last season at Newcastle.

But I'll admit to being quietly impressed with him so far this season. He has proved to be something of a workhorse (water carrier is the term I like to use) and yes, we possibly do play a bit better with someone like that in the team. Your point may be that we'd have had more cover for our defenders but I can't say I really believe that.

JJ does a fine job, but won't ever be enough to get us higher as he simply can't impose himself on the game, and doesn't have the strength of body or character to compete with a Fabregas (as we've seen) or a Gerrard (as we'll devastatingly see this weekend).

[singapore spur]

simply can't impose himself on the game, and doesn't have the strength of body or character to compete with a Fabregas (as we've seen) or a Gerrard (as we'll devastatingly see this weekend).


aint that the truth , love him or hate him , i have never seen him dominate a game , or a midfield when up against anyone of note .

[mjbmedia]

so four of the last five posts state that the reason we were 4-1 down was due to errors by pretty much one player, Robbo.

Yet this game is still used as a further excuse to pillory Jol, we were 4-1 down the goals must have been Jols fault :rolleyes: yet above those same people state categorically that the goals were player errors ?? ok Jol picks those players and i want Robbo dropped but he has also kept us in games previously (recently) so can also understand why hes still picked.

4-1 down, Jol does something, makes changes in personnel and tactics,/ positioning, we come back to 4-4, is that Jols doing???? nooooo of course not that just a minor inconvenience and the fact we were 4-1 down at home in the first place is the big issue, not the fact we had the guts, determination and Jol had the nous to make the right gutsy calls (Berbs off Bent wins pen , keane pushed deep and makes it tick, Defoe on and instant danger) .

Like those ****s who left early, missed the traffic and a great comeback , good you ****heads dont bother coming to another game

[peterc]

As Kaboul quoted "Jol picks the players, he does not play on the pitch, it's up to us." End of.

[wayne wonder]

so four of the last five posts state that the reason we were 4-1 down was due to errors by pretty much one player, Robbo.

Yet this game is still used as a further excuse to pillory Jol, we were 4-1 down the goals must have been Jols fault :rolleyes: yet above those same people state categorically that the goals were player errors ?? ok Jol picks those players and i want Robbo dropped but he has also kept us in games previously (recently) so can also understand why hes still picked.

4-1 down, Jol does something, makes changes in personnel and tactics,/ positioning, we come back to 4-4, is that Jols doing???? nooooo of course not that just a minor inconvenience and the fact we were 4-1 down at home in the first place is the big issue, not the fact we had the guts, determination and Jol had the nous to make the right gutsy calls (Berbs off Bent wins pen , keane pushed deep and makes it tick, Defoe on and instant danger) .

Like those ****s who left early, missed the traffic and a great comeback , good you ****heads dont bother coming to another game

Totally agree with you mate i was sat there thinking **** off ive travelled miles and paid a lot of money to watch this game i dont care if we ship 6 im staying to the end they're a total disgrace:mad:

[Spur]

Would Spurs have got themselves into a situation of being 4-1 down with JJ in the center on Monday night? i tend to think not.

The stats will tell you that we play better with Jenas in the side, i don't think thats a coincedence.

Stats actually show we miss Teemu more than Jenas.

So unless you want to take back your sentence I suggest you go and get TAINIO on the back of your shirt there Nick.

[spurs61]

Like those ****s who left early, missed the traffic and a great comeback , good you ****heads dont bother coming to another game

Fans are entitled to show their displeasure and what better way than voting with your feet. I happened to stay until the end but in no way did I blame those who left after Villas fourth goal. Most of us had treked across London rush hour traffic to see and exibition of football and a celebration of all things Spurs. We expected a bit of passion and comitment on what was a special night, the appearance of all those former players with medals galore between them should have inspired the side to beat Villa out of sight.

[jrio]

so four of the last five posts state that the reason we were 4-1 down was due to errors by pretty much one player, Robbo.

Yet this game is still used as a further excuse to pillory Jol, we were 4-1 down the goals must have been Jols fault :rolleyes: yet above those same people state categorically that the goals were player errors ?? ok Jol picks those players and i want Robbo dropped but he has also kept us in games previously (recently) so can also understand why hes still picked.

4-1 down, Jol does something, makes changes in personnel and tactics,/ positioning, we come back to 4-4, is that Jols doing???? nooooo of course not that just a minor inconvenience and the fact we were 4-1 down at home in the first place is the big issue, not the fact we had the guts, determination and Jol had the nous to make the right gutsy calls (Berbs off Bent wins pen , keane pushed deep and makes it tick, Defoe on and instant danger) .

Robbo was by far the worst culprit but Chimbo and Dawson also had culpability in 2 of the goals, and generally defended poorly. 2 of the goals were lost to deadballs, a constant problem for the past year. Look at the figures. We're conceding 2 goals a game, often 3 or 4.

Rather than Jol you can thank MON's bringing on Harewood, who gave away a needless penalty and completely failed to hold up the ball for Villa, who did our usual trick of retreating to the edge of their penalty area to defend a lead.