Match Thread: Sunderland vs Tottenham Hotspur

[Neil_Vaughan]

Talk about the game in here before, during and after.

[SurreySpur]

Talk about the game in here before, during and after.

WOOHOO!!! we've all been waiting for the first match sticky!!

Its been a long summer!! Now my Saturdays have meaning again:p

[proto]

YEEEEEEEEEEEEAH!!!!! COYS!!!

predict tough game with our players finishing being the difference 2-4 :p

[olly27]

Lovely to see this thread again!!

I cant wait for this..worse than being a child at xmas!!..I just hope I get the present am looking for!

Yeah this will be a tough one no doubt about it..if we can be combative in the middle of the park are strikers shoud do all the talking..I am going for 2-1 to the mighty Spurs...:)

[Welsh Spur]

2-0 Spurs, Jenas and Bent to score.

[SurreySpur]

1-3 Spurs with Berbatov, Keane and Kaboul to score.

[\jackdaw]

Now I know the season is about to start .. man this makes me feel good.

Feel upbeat about this one .. a win but will be close.

[wayne wonder]

Sunderland will come at us for the first 20mins or so we have to defend well and hit them on the break i reckon 2-1 to us COYS

[MiloMinderbinder]

WOO HOO, new season is new reason to get optimistic, or is it.....

Anyone remember the hope that sprung eternal last year, "ooh look at all our bright shinny new toys recruited to give a bit of worldly nowhow to our talented but callow squad. We're gonna win something this year I just know it...who's the first game against...ah Bolton away a walk in the park that one, we'll murd....oh crap..."

Sunderland 1 (Chopra (he's the only Mackem I can think of) Spurs 1 (Keane) the Sunderland fans to wet themselves in excitment at least 2 hours before kick off, Jenas to turn up 1 1/2 hours after kick off, Keane (R) to make Keane (R) drool with a sublime piece of skill for Spurs equaliser.

[Gino Ginelli]

Aah that's better, back to normal now with the Friday afternoon match prediction thread back. Good stuff.

Anyway, I predict us to flatter to decieve with a 2-0 victory. Our forwards will make mincemeat of Blunderland no problem, and they simply won't know how to get through our back 4. But I feel that Dwight Yorke is going to embarrass us in midfield, making us look clueless and lightweight.

So same old same old then... :D

[mjbmedia]

3-0 SPURS we'll go 1 up in the first 5 minutes 2 up after around 30 minutes then the third in the last 15 minutes

[spurs61]

Hooray!!! Back from the rally straight into a new season, doesn't get any better then that.

I reckon this will be close, I'll take a narrow 2-1 win with Berby and Robbie scoring one a piece. Sunderland to open the scoring though.

Can't wait to see our new lefty, oh wait....

[Spur]

Hooray!!! Back from the rally straight into a new season, doesn't get any better then that.

I reckon this will be close, I'll take a narrow 2-1 win with Berby and Robbie scoring one a piece. Sunderland to open the scoring though.

Can't wait to see our new lefty, oh wait....

We say that every bloody year S61!

[TURKISH]

I got a feeling if daws is out than 3.2 berbo, keano and jj to put the nail in the coffin for the 3points :D

[Keanoldinho]

3-0 Berby(2) Jenas

We better give this lot a good beatn

[Spur]

Archi on SO said this earlier:

Hey guys,

The final post before i go.

been away from the board as been busy!

Mido not gone to Boro yet as Sunderland have now increased offer!

Dawson will make decision this morning- looks very unlikely though.

Jol not sure what to do yet.

Think that Stalteri will start at left back with Rocha in middle

A defence going: Chim, Rocha, Kaboul, Stalteri

Hope to God he's wrong and Dawson is ok. Either way we have players slightly out of position.

Today's team will be last season's with exception of Kaboul, looking forward to seeing what the bench is like.

Hope Jenas gets off to a flyer, as many times as i've said this next bit before i'm still going to say it - if he starts off well he might be able to get some momentum and give in some improved performances.

Off down the pub already then. Oh how I hate early kick off's...:rolleyes: ;) :cool:

COYS

[SurreySpur]

Im having sky installed as we speak as i moved house recently. Not sure if its going to be done by kick-off tho!! ANyone know of any channels on sopcast showing the game?

Ive already offered him a score if its finished by 12.45pm!!

[Ginola's Son]

It'll be great to start posting on here more often, I haven't had much to say over the last 3 months...this close season has been agonizingly long!!

I think Sunderland with Keane at the helm are a different story...and with a defence that looks shaky to say the least, I think a draw would be a great result. But if we wanna challenge and be up there...we gotta win it!!

COYS!

[hastingsyid]

tough opener for the boys but our strikers will do the business 1-3 COYS

[SurreySpur]

Is it just me or has this morning dragged on and on??

[Ginola's Son]

Not you, it's true

[Thfc4Life]

OMFG that shitter Stalteri is playing!!!

[SurreySpur]

OMFG that shitter Stalteri is playing!!!

You're joking ??

Im sure we all remember Pauls last visit to the stadium of light, letting daryl murphy sneak in for the equaliser.

[jrio]

Just unfathomable, Stalteri on the left instead of Rocha.

[Thfc4Life]

Line up: Robinson, Chimbonda, Kaboul, Gardner, Stalteri, Tainio, Malbranque, Jenas, Zokora, Keane, Berbatov subs: Cerny, Rocha, Huddlestone, Defoe, Bent

Absolutely shocking line up imo, and why is Taarabt not even on the bench he has been our best player in pre season, looks like were playing for the draw :confused:

[denis-cro]

Tainio as a right winger...:(

[AssaTM]

Looks fine to me, that midfield should more than cope, Stalteri at left back is a lil weird yeh, but maybe Rocha is running with a bit of a knock or something? it's the start of the season some players just aint fit enough or pick up small niggles, unfortunately that happens to every team at the start of the season, and with our strikers I think we'll be able to cope more than fine ;) :p

[denis-cro]

Anthony Gardner ...:rolleyes:

[Ginola's Son]

Gardner looks determined to gift them a goal....seeing as his first attempt failed, I'm sure he'll give them a penalty. If they miss that then on to plan c....an own goal!

Stalteri's doing well! And have you forgotten what the man did last season! A hero on one game alone? You got it

We're doing ok I think. Kaboul looks good.

[Gino Ginelli]

Tainio is supposed to be right wing put I haven't seen him there yet! He needs to be offering support to Chimbo in attack & helping him cover that wing. We've been caught out a few times by that. He's just cluttering the midfield up.

Steed's looking busy but isn't sharp enough yet for me. Too many stray passes and not enough darting forward. Zokora is playing very well, all over the place. Kaboul looks sturdy, Bambi's ok except for that ridiculous attempted header which nearly gave them a goal.

Where the **** is Jenas. I see him strolling around now and again but that's it.

BTW, what happened to Chimbo's hair?

[Keanoldinho]

Berby had a great chance there I think the defender clipped him though and made him lose his footing the ref is a ****.

We need Bent in there for the second half move Keano to the LW and bring Bent on up top with Berbatov. Tainio has do **** all on the right wing I wish Routledge woulda got the bloody start his pace is needed.

[SurreySpur]

[QUOTE=Gino Ginelli;55573
BTW, what happened to Chimbo's hair?[/QUOTE]

I was thinking the exact same thing. I was just getting used to the mini dread-locks and he goes and changes it.

[proto]

i think we're doing an awsome job of making 4-4-2 look like 4-3-2

[Ginola's Son]

Chimbo's not got over the reception he got at Blackburn. It looked horrendous.

Gardner playing ahead of Rocha defies all sense. He's clearly the better of the two.

Tainio hasn't done much its true, I definitely think Routledge should have played this game, what does the poor sod have to do to get a game.

Hudd could come on in the second half, beef the midfield up.

[Keanoldinho]

Gardner looks determined to gift them a goal....seeing as his first attempt failed, I'm sure he'll give them a penalty. If they miss that then on to plan c....an own goal!

Stalteri's doing well! And have you forgotten what the man did last season! A hero on one game alone? You got it

We're doing ok I think. Kaboul looks good.


Gardner has looked bloody suspect but at least Kaboul looks good he's comfortabl on the ball as well bringing it out of defence. Our luck is terrible how the **** is Dawson going to get injured the night before the game.:(

[Keanoldinho]

i think we're doing an awsome job of making 4-4-2 look like 4-3-2

that's because Tainio disappeared

[denis-cro]

Please Jol: Bent IN, Tainio OUT, Keane on RW

[Keanoldinho]

Please Jol: Bent IN, Tainio OUT, Keane on RW


:D request granted now we're in business

[MACCSPURS]

As some others have said, Kaboul looks solid and competent which is all we could ask for.

Reminds me a little of Dawson on his debut away to Liverpool when he was top quality.

[Keanoldinho]

Chimbo and Zokora have been class so far

[proto]

that's because Tainio disappeared

LOL my point at halftime was, was he ever there?

[SurreySpur]

just clear the ****ing ball tom!!!!!!!!!!!

[hastingsyid]

**** **** **** **** Sake

[SCIFIN17YID]

FFS ! im off for a pint bollocks !

[proto]

aghhh fucshibastocks. i don't believe it :mad:

[AssaTM]

I expect a shake up for the next match or I will be EXTREMELY pissed off

[denis-cro]

Martin Jol should be sacked IMMEDIATLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! There is no more excusses! This is a dissaster!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Keanoldinho]

************

[original v.L.n.]

I was gonna say what a joke we were but then we went and let one in!

Diabolicle performance!!!

[MACCSPURS]

All that expectation, all the hope.....dead again after 90 mins of the new season.

It's our job to up our game, fight for it and want it and today, we went through the motions and although technically we looked better, we lost.

Yes, we have injuries but it's not an excuse. Games like this HAVE to be won.

Oh well, this is what we get for supporting Spurs :confused:

[AssaTM]

What is our problem with the start of seasons? :/ it was a terrible performance by our expected standards..., no one performed, Zokora played well at first but then he started to pass to Sunderland every time he got the ball

[LifeTimeYido]

Yet again as Spurs fans we put ourselves thru this again - we were ****ing garbage - we were indecisive, negative and never played to our strengths -

SHAME ON YOU SPURS - buck ya ****ing ideas up.

[WelshSpur82]

Joke, again our lack of a wide man has cost us, how many times were there about 10 players on top of each other in the middle of the park, acres of space wild left! SHOCKING.

[MACCSPURS]

If we fool the players into thinking the game against Everton is a friendly, we will probably win. Seems we are good at winning game that are pointless. :confused:

[Jol's Yid Army]

that was a ****ing disgrace. We had two tame shots in 93 mins of play and we're ment to be challenging for the top four, no ****ing way. Sunderland diserve anything they got, well played to them. Mr Jol's ****ing negative tactics and all these millions on players, **** off!!!!!

[SurreySpur]

and now my keyboard is missing a few keys. **** it.

[Gino Ginelli]

Is it me, or do we actually have NO ****ING CLUE on how to actually play football??!

Zokora, our best player, off and not Jenas or Steed?! Christ almighty!

[mjbmedia]

same old bollox at the start of the season really. Keane flapping his arms around and doing **** all, Berbs looking like he dont want to be here, JD given 10 minutes to work miracles in a team that hasnt created anything to date and Stalteri not clearing the ball well enough setting up unneccesary pressure.

To lose to shit like Sunderland who only play cos theyre scared of their boss is a ****ing joke for a team that expect to challenge for 4th and more .

What is it do our team only get paid for 90 minutes football then after that they stop playing cos the number of times we concede in the final minutes is getting extremely tedious.

Still 2nd game home to Everton, remember last season, same scenario , im looking forward to it already.

Maybe one day, just one day we will set up to actually go for it from the off like i said we should set up, instead of being so ****ing negative all the time, long back passes , Robbo our playmaker esp 2nd half just cos Bents on .

Im sure Arsenal are shitting themselves

[Ginola's Son]

I could have written that script. It's nearly amusing. Let's see how those cocks are doing 38 games down the line.

We asked for it really, see, I thought we were doing quite well, we had a lot of the ball, and trying to subdue Sunderland, but as usual, the last ten minutes don't need to be played. Really really awful play after Huddlestone came on. Darren Bent sucked its got to be said, I'll give him another few chances as its his first game, but taking Berba off instead of the inneffective Keane sealed our fate in my book.

Have to credit Sunderland, they stuck to their task, but they didn't deserve to win. Nor did we.

Agggh, it's a sickener.

[AssaTM]

Berba played like he started last season, I dunno what thats all about, Keane just whines about everyone else and his performance reminded me of mr roundabout man Karol Poborsky, and ignore the no wide men, even our central midfielders were poor, Zokora was our best player and I really cant take much more of Jenas :mad:

[Thfc4Life]

Joke, again our lack of a wide man has cost us, how many times were there about 10 players on top of each other in the middle of the park, acres of space wild left! SHOCKING.

Precisely and who's fault is this...look no further than Martin Jol.

We have wide men (Taarabt, Routledge) and he doesn't even put them on the bench, let alone on the pitch :mad: :confused:

[denis-cro]

Stalteri and Gardner should never ever wear Spurs shirts again. How the **** we still have those two in our squad...:(

[JASER279]

How the **** r Jenas + Gardener on Spurs books?

[mjbmedia]

taking Berba off instead of the inneffective Keane sealed our fate in my book.

.
yeh but Keanes god isnt he :rolleyes: cant sub him he might flap his arms to much and fly off , or punch someone. he shouldnt be captain either , no way, not inspirational in anyway way shape or form, he done nothing to lift the team and seemed to pass back even more than Gardener.

[Ginola's Son]

It was our defence that sucked here more than anything and to be fair, it was down to the bare bones.

[JM_]

Martin Jol should be sacked IMMEDIATLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! There is no more excusses! This is a dissaster!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

There's a supprise comment from you! Jesus, grow up! Jol didn't loose this game, the players did! The players didn't work good enough to get three points today. Not that Sunderland did anyway. Just hope this gives the players a kick up the arse!

Tainio had a shocker and so did Berby, to be fair. Berby mostly because the lack of creativity and support from midfield. And also you expect a lot from a playre like him.

Perhaps Taarby on the right might give us something extra, or even Routledge. Both who are actually wide players and not CMs... Kaboul looked solid but made a few small mistakes. Jenas actually had a good first half, but disappeared in the second. Malbranque works his pants off, but has not got the final touches in his game that could win us the game. Also Keano was lost on the left. We need Bale ready soon (or buy a player who actually is a left midfielder).

[Ginola's Son]

yeh but Keanes god isnt he cant sub him he might flap his arms to much and fly off , or punch someone. he shouldnt be captain either , no way, not inspirational in anyway way shape or form, he done nothing to lift the team and seemed to pass back even more than Gardener.

He just had a bad game this time, and on this occaison...he should have gone off.

Hudd should take a few months off, I'm not happy with him at all.

[WelshSpur82]

I dont care, we should still be beating teams of that quality, going forward we offered **** all! jol must take the blame for that pile of shit

[denis-cro]

Breaking into top four ??? :rolleyes:

[Jol's Yid Army]

only highlight was kaboul, stopped everything.

Who wants a bet that Man Ure, Chelshit, Liverpool and Arsenal will all win at sunderland this season and comfortably. Thats why there top 4 material.

The players didnt look match fit to me and I wonder sometimes why Ghaly came back as he said to bruce "I dont do this running at tottenham". I dont think they do any feckin running, there not fit.

[Ginola's Son]

Oh they're fit, and I don't think we played that badly today. Just the unfortunate victims of the script. I've said we'd lose this game as soon as the fixtures were announced, and the fact that it was in the 93rd just adds to 'the glorious drama of the premiership on tv' which is usually at the expense of us. Bar the WH game.

[SCIFIN17YID]

Martin Jol should be sacked IMMEDIATLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! There is no more excusses! This is a dissaster!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Your a idiot, first off since he has come here to our club, how much has improoved a lot of thing's, grow up your pathetic, you clearly know nothing about football, I bet you dont even go to the game's get a life.

[Keanoldinho]

Midfield was shite. Zokora was the only one in midfield who played well. Jenas, Tainio, Malbranque, and Hudd when he came on were all shite. Should of never taken Zokora off we couldn't even get out our own half after that. Routledge or Taarabt need to be playing.

Kaboul, Salty, and Chimbo looked good in defence but Gardner was as usual shite and successfully gave the game away. He was trying all game to give them a goal the bastard. That's why we need Curtis Davies so we can sell Gardner he don't even deserve to be in our reserve squad.

Bottom line the midfield needs to be sorted asap

[Ginola's Son]

Get out there TONIGHT and sign MGP

[choda]

yeh but Keanes god isnt he :rolleyes: cant sub him he might flap his arms to much and fly off , or punch someone. he shouldnt be captain either , no way, not inspirational in anyway way shape or form, he done nothing to lift the team and seemed to pass back even more than Gardener.

What are you on about? :rolleyes:

It's totally ****ing obvious what happened here today. Jol made a total ****ing hash of the midfield. Tainio and Malbarnauqe out wide. What a ****ing joke.

As soon as I saw it I said 'not good.' Bodged is a another good phrase.

Even sunderland had Richardson and Edwards on their flanks. Tainio on the right is a nothing player and malbranque on the left is stop gap. Mind you malbranque on the right isn't much better.

Where was Taarabt and Routledge? They would have given us some outlets. The central lads started quite well. On a bright note Jenas looked pretty good. I was delighted with him, but even they withered as it went on. I wouldn't blame them though. They had absolutely no outlets out wide. They had to either go sideways, dribble themselves or find a front man. It's too hard against a resolute unit.

The only thing we could hope for was that Berba, Keane or Bent would produce someting out of nothing. Criticising Keane and placing blame at his door is monkey *****. He was one of the few hopes we had.

And so what if he throws his arms up when somebody doesn't make a run or make a simple pass. Wouldn't you?

But when it was option time Jol goes to the bench. NO ****ING WINGER THERE EITHER!

So he puts Keane out left. Keane can't play there. Again pretty obvious. Why not go to a diamond and you may have some joy? And as Berba is starting to get some grip on the game he takes him off for DEFOE!

Jol was a ****ing joke today. He needs to get his act together fast. Otherwise we will be in midtable again come christmas.

He was out thought from the off today by manager with far less resources.

[denis-cro]

Your a idiot, first off since he has come here to our club, how much has improoved a lot of thing's, grow up your pathetic, you clearly know nothing about football, I bet you dont even go to the game's get a life.

No, mate You´re a idiot! Since he came to Spurs, he spent, after Chelsea, the most for transfers. And what we get ??? A CM players playing winger positions. Spending 16.5 mil on a striker who is sitting on a bench, and not buying a natural winger which we need desperately is a IDIOTIC!!!!!!!!!!!! So, if you think Jol will bring us to Champions league, with his defensive tactic, and his ridiculous choice of starting line-up, than mate, YOU´RE a ****ING IDIOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[shoot_ffs]

the stench of misery, it must be the footy season again. where to start??

our midfield was absolutely shocking today, but to be fair it was largely a tactical problem. was zok or jenas our defensive midfield, answers on a postcard please. perhaps more unbelievably, jenas was up against a 73 year old dwight yorke and still made no impression on the game. kaboul made more forward runs than jenas. tainio showed in the last game against torino that he could not play right wing, and would not link up well with chimbo. even more surprsingly, jol made absolutely no difference with his half time talk.

sunderland played with team spirit, never lost belief and were combative all over the pitch. we played like a bunch of ego's, with negative tactics and players out of position. everton must be drooling at the chance to play us in that mood.
i'd love to know what the players thought of our preseason as many of them looked unhappy and off the pace of the game.

[Ginola's Son]

We shouldn't read too much into this. First game back, shocking but not unpredictable finish to the game...and that finish has caused a great deal of you to turn on the players and manager again. It was always gonna be Sunderlands day today.

And I've never thought we could finish top four because we can't get the mentality for it. The pressure is too big and we just can't handle it.

But we'll get some form going soon

[olly27]

What are you on about? :rolleyes:

It's totally ****ing obvious what happened here today. Jol made a total ****ing hash of the midfield. Tainio and Malbarnauqe out wide. What a ****ing joke.

As soon as I saw it I said 'not good.' Bodged is a another good phrase.

Even sunderland had Richardson and Edwards on their flanks. Tainio on the right is a nothing player and malbranque on the left is stop gap. Mind you malbranque on the right isn't much better.

Where was Taarabt and Routledge? They would have given us some outlets. The central lads started quite well. On a bright note Jenas looked pretty good. I was delighted with him, but even they withered as it went on. I wouldn't blame them though. They had absolutely no outlets out wide. They had to either go sideways, dribble themselves or find a front man. It's too hard against a resolute unit.

The only thing we could hope for was that Berba, Keane or Bent would produce someting out of nothing. Criticising Keane and placing blame at his door is monkey *****. He was one of the few hopes we had.

And so what if he throws his arms up when somebody doesn't make a run or make a simple pass. Wouldn't you?

But when it was option time Jol goes to the bench. NO ****ING WINGER THERE EITHER!

So he puts Keane out left. Keane can't play there. Again pretty obvious. Why not go to a diamond and you may have some joy? And as Berba is starting to get some grip on the game he takes him off for DEFOE!

Jol was a ****ing joke today. He needs to get his act together fast. Otherwise we will be in midtable again come christmas.

He was out thought from the off today by manager with far less resources.


I have to agree Choda...when I saw the midfield I knew this was going to be a struggle..I mean created virtually nothing due to the way we were set up...it actually is worrying that
we didn't have a winger on the pitch never mind on the bench..nothing to do with Keane..did anyone see Chimbonda motioning that there was no movement when taking a throw in..how many times was the ball played back...obvious no outlets..over crowded midfield...easy for their defenders.....just totally exasperated...typical start eh?

[TURKISH]

Calm down guys first game of the season, it just shows you can have the best strikers in the world but if you don't have creative midfield than there not gonna score.

I don't know if bale will play left wing but we need a left winger urgent and im getting pissed off that 3 years since jol took over we havent brought one!

I don't know how people can slag off the players today doesn't matter who you got if you don't have a balanced side than you will looks dangerous and creat chances.

Lets hope for our sake that we have a proper out let for left and right wing next game!

Kaboul looked great :D

[Thfc4Life]

What are you on about? :rolleyes:

It's totally ****ing obvious what happened here today. Jol made a total ****ing hash of the midfield. Tainio and Malbarnauqe out wide. What a ****ing joke.

As soon as I saw it I said 'not good.' Bodged is a another good phrase.

Even sunderland had Richardson and Edwards on their flanks. Tainio on the right is a nothing player and malbranque on the left is stop gap. Mind you malbranque on the right isn't much better.

Where was Taarabt and Routledge? They would have given us some outlets. The central lads started quite well. On a bright note Jenas looked pretty good. I was delighted with him, but even they withered as it went on. I wouldn't blame them though. They had absolutely no outlets out wide. They had to either go sideways, dribble themselves or find a front man. It's too hard against a resolute unit.

The only thing we could hope for was that Berba, Keane or Bent would produce someting out of nothing. Criticising Keane and placing blame at his door is monkey *****. He was one of the few hopes we had.

And so what if he throws his arms up when somebody doesn't make a run or make a simple pass. Wouldn't you?

But when it was option time Jol goes to the bench. NO ****ING WINGER THERE EITHER!

So he puts Keane out left. Keane can't play there. Again pretty obvious. Why not go to a diamond and you may have some joy? And as Berba is starting to get some grip on the game he takes him off for DEFOE!

Jol was a ****ing joke today. He needs to get his act together fast. Otherwise we will be in midtable again come christmas.

He was out thought from the off today by manager with far less resources.

Great post your spot on mate.

[Ginola's Son]

Not really, it's just a huge rant. Some fans need to come back down to earth.

[TURKISH]

What are you on about? :rolleyes:

It's totally ****ing obvious what happened here today. Jol made a total ****ing hash of the midfield. Tainio and Malbarnauqe out wide. What a ****ing joke.

As soon as I saw it I said 'not good.' Bodged is a another good phrase.

Even sunderland had Richardson and Edwards on their flanks. Tainio on the right is a nothing player and malbranque on the left is stop gap. Mind you malbranque on the right isn't much better.

Where was Taarabt and Routledge? They would have given us some outlets. The central lads started quite well. On a bright note Jenas looked pretty good. I was delighted with him, but even they withered as it went on. I wouldn't blame them though. They had absolutely no outlets out wide. They had to either go sideways, dribble themselves or find a front man. It's too hard against a resolute unit.

The only thing we could hope for was that Berba, Keane or Bent would produce someting out of nothing. Criticising Keane and placing blame at his door is monkey *****. He was one of the few hopes we had.

And so what if he throws his arms up when somebody doesn't make a run or make a simple pass. Wouldn't you?

But when it was option time Jol goes to the bench. NO ****ING WINGER THERE EITHER!

So he puts Keane out left. Keane can't play there. Again pretty obvious. Why not go to a diamond and you may have some joy? And as Berba is starting to get some grip on the game he takes him off for DEFOE!

Jol was a ****ing joke today. He needs to get his act together fast. Otherwise we will be in midtable again come christmas.

He was out thought from the off today by manager with far less resources.

SPOT ON! But all i say is calm down first game of the season, it was just a typical spurs performance against a shit team.

[Welsh Spur]

Today I thought we played well and that a draw was the fair result. As a Jack I ****ing hate Chopra anyway but now I hate the little **** even more.

Kaboul was ****ing shithot today. What was wrong with Daws? I knew we'd b in shite as soon as I saw Stalteri and Gardners names on the teamsheet. What the ****. Today, I'm afraid, was completely and totally Martin Jol's fault. Jenas and Zokora were equally impressive, Can anyone explain what the idea of having four central midfields starting is? Er, hello, wide men please, Taarabt creaming to start a game today would have been perfect for him. Top 4 teams DO NOT lose at Sunderland.

we need width, and we need it now.

Bent sucked also. Did Defoe even touch the ball?

[Ginola's Son]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Calm down guys first game of the season, it just shows you can have the best strikers in the world but if you don't have creative midfield than there not gonna score.

I don't know if bale will play left wing but we need a left winger urgent and im getting pissed off that 3 years since jol took over we havent brought one!

I don't know how people can slag off the players today doesn't matter who you got if you don't have a balanced side than you will looks dangerous and creat chances.

Lets hope for our sake that we have a proper out let for left and right wing next game!

Kaboul looked great

People don't seem to realise that a depleted side doesn't lend confidence to the remaining players. None of the team are confident in Gardner and are often reluctant to pass to him.

Today I thought we played well and that a draw was the fair result. As a Jack I ****ing hate Chopra anyway but now I hate the little **** even more.


It's sickening when a total piece of cock***** gets the winner.

[olly27]

Today I thought we played well and that a draw was the fair result. As a Jack I ****ing hate Chopra anyway but now I hate the little **** even more.

Kaboul was ****ing shithot today. What was wrong with Daws? I knew we'd b in shite as soon as I saw Stalteri and Gardners names on the teamsheet. What the ****. Today, I'm afraid, was completely and totally Martin Jol's fault. Jenas and Zokora were equally impressive, Can anyone explain what the idea of having four central midfields starting is? Er, hello, wide men please, Taarabt creaming to start a game today would have been perfect for him. Top 4 teams DO NOT lose at Sunderland.

we need width, and we need it now.

Bent sucked also. Did Defoe even touch the ball?

What are you on about that Bent sucked???...we created nothing for the whole game...a totally unbalanced midfield...how can you be critical of the strikers if they are not being supplied the ball regularly in advanced areas??..
Effective wide men drag defenders out and allow people like Bent to attack the space and play on the shoulder effectively..our midfield in unbalanced and condensed...hence slow movement and predictable and easy to defend against...

[choda]

Not really, it's just a huge rant. Some fans need to come back down to earth.

I'm not a knee jerker mate. I was always said we'd finish top six last year and often called for balance.

As for this game I said it when I saw the team, I said it in the game and after, so shut the **** up.

[Ginola's Son]

Bent had the ball quite a bit and just ran himself into a defender and lost the ball. He was poor. But first game jitters and all that

[jrio]

Some disastrous selections from Jol today compounded by a bench that made no sense - Bent and Defoe?! How can Taarabt not even feature on the bench? Is Rocha really our 5th choice CB? You can talk about needing Prem experience but our experience of Gardner is that he's clearly not up to it, and always looks likely to commit a glaring error.

Midfield was predictably pedestrian and created little. Great to have 4 lethal strikers but if they're not given any chances not so great. Mal seemed even less effective on the right than he was on the left. Again there is no creativity from the centre and JJ and Zokora looks a weak and uninspired combination.

Apart from Bent, what was the thinking on the substitutions? Defoe for Berb? Berb was fairly poor but it just seemed designed to give Defoe some game time. Hudd was an even bigger disaster. Constantly dwelt on the ball and badly mistimed challenges. Sunderland were at their most dangerous after he came on. Under Keane last season Sunderland won a lot of games in the last 20 minutes. I didn't get any sense Spurs wanted to go that extra mile in the later stages and for most of the game we looked as though we were playing a friendly. Utter shite, regardless of missing King, Dawson et al.

[Ginola's Son]

I'm not a knee jerker mate. I was always said we'd finish top six last year and often called for balance.

As for this game I said it when I saw the team, I said it in the game and after, so shut the **** up.

Oooh, it's even got fans turning on eachother.

Come on, think about the game, we had a lot of the ball, we weren't played off the park like so many away games last season, there's a positive to take from the game in the sense that we aren't showing any fear in away games. Jol was forced into making changes to the side today. I agree that his selection of Gardner over Rocha was a major error as was Routledge not filling Lennon's role...but I think he thought he'd need a worker like Tainio to match the workhorses of Keane's Sunderland, pity that Teemu only turns up in a 3rd of the games he plays. It's food for thought, I think we need to offer a different line-up on tues, if he makes no changes I may start to think he's too proud to admit his first team selection is failing.

[olly27]

Bent had the ball quite a bit and just ran himself into a defender and lost the ball. He was poor. But first game jitters and all that

At the end of the day we did not give ourselves the best possible chance of winning this game due to how we were set up..my opionion...notwithstanding our injury problems..

[Ginola's Son]

So, what would you have done Olly?

[jrio]

Today I thought we played well and that a draw was the fair result.
I didn't see that at all. A draw yes, but Spurs looked totally lacklustre. Sunderland played within their limitations but after 80 minutes I could only remember Berb's half chance against Murphy's gift from Gardner and Etuhu's effort saved by Robbo.

Top 4 teams DO NOT lose at Sunderland.


I'd normally agree but Arsenal lost at Sheff Utd last season.

[olly27]

So, what would you have done Olly?

I would of included Routlidge or Taarby for a start..in an attempt to provide an outlet and hopefully some penetration...of course heindsight is a wonderful thing..but I had these thoughts before we kicked off!!...I was impressed by Kaboul though..

[jrio]

I would of included Routlidge or Taarby for a start..in an attempt to provide an outlet and hopefully some penetration...of course heindsight is a wonderful thing..but I had these thoughts before we kicked off!!...I was impressed by Kaboul though..
Agreed except Routledge's been told he can go and wasn't even in the squad. I would even have sanctioned Ghaly playing on the right.

[LifeTimeYido]

Thats one of the embarrasing things - we have players who can play in wide areas - but they dont even make the bench - even after good performances pre-season.

What a kick in the teeth for those players...........

[Defoe8]

Just come back from the pub, having watched the match.

Very poor performance by Spurs, we had no width in the midfield and no creativity, it was too congested meaning we ended up hoofing the ball.

The defence wasn't awful but was bad, although Kaboul played pretty well for a debut.

I have no idea why Tarrabat didn't start, if he was fit and Jol didn't put him on the bench at least then he needs his head examined. Jenas continues to piss me off, an average player at best and his set pieces aren't even good, so there is no use for him, should sell him asap.

The strikers were poor as well, although they had to set up their own chances as the midfield wasn't doing much.

Crosses, long balls into the box, set pieces - we just seem incapable of defending these.

Pathetic performance.

[choda]

Oooh, it's even got fans turning on eachother.

Come on, think about the game, we had a lot of the ball, we weren't played off the park like so many away games last season, there's a positive to take from the game in the sense that we aren't showing any fear in away games. Jol was forced into making changes to the side today. I agree that his selection of Gardner over Rocha was a major error as was Routledge not filling Lennon's role...but I think he thought he'd need a worker like Tainio to match the workhorses of Keane's Sunderland, pity that Teemu only turns up in a 3rd of the games he plays. It's food for thought, I think we need to offer a different line-up on tues, if he makes no changes I may start to think he's too proud to admit his first team selection is failing.

You're a patronising little ****er, aren't you?

You even agree with the analysis, but have to make your petty comments.

I am thinking about the game and calling it as I see it.

Why couldn't Jol see the obvious before the game? You could have asked people on here before hand about that midfield and they would have told you it was inept. He made a **** of it today and it cost us 3 points, end of.

Who cares if you have the ball and run down blind alley ways or go nowhere?

I don't want him to be sacked or anything. I defended him last year when people wanted him out. He tends to learn from his errors, but he was very slow last year to recognise that playing a pedestrian line-up doesn't win you games.

You'd think he'd have learned that lesson, which is part of the reason why I am so pissed with him. We need to get it all right this year to keep berba and make cl. Football is hard enough without shooting yourself in the foot.

We can't afford stupid **** ups over long periods like last year. We just had one today. If it continues we are going to be struggling for fifth again.

[Defoe8]

Martin Jol isn't a risk taker, and that needs to change fast!!

[LifeTimeYido]

Why couldn't Jol see the obvious before the game? You could have asked people on here before hand about that midfield and they would have told you it was inept. He made a **** of it today and it cost us 3 points, end of.

Happened too many times last season IMO.

Thought that he may of learnt from that but.........*shrugs* guess not.

Personally i cant see where the creativity is going to come from.

[jrio]

Martin Jol isn't a risk taker, and that needs to change fast!!

I don't know, what else would you call playing Gardner in the centre! :eek:

Post-match he says he wasn't even in the squad but thought he did well!

[proto]

our whole midfield today excpet zokora are arguably bench players, steeds okay at a push cos he puts in 100%, its just a shame his 100% isn't as good as it could be and we won't get his best out wide anyway. but that glamour whore jenas has got to on his arse tuesday, maybe he was okayish in the 1st half, but overall steed would put more pressure on an oposition in that role. complete waste of time having the strikers we do if jenas is as good as service gets, in the 2nd half evrytime he got the ball he went backwards and seemed to look for a pass into..... the position he's meant to be in!

the only positives were:
kaboul looked like he can do the job well enough, and even sparked some runs a couple times.
chimbo managed to almost do the job right back AND right wing
robbo can make a reflex save and... errr... can kick the ball a long way :confused:
zokora showed some real quality today getting in their way and shouldering some of the creative burden jenas is meant to.

the negatives were:
many

imo we should be grabbing that taylor guy from pompey like tonight, maybe davies too, more of a well spent 16mil or less than bent(not that i don't think bent was a good buy). a team of width and players in their right positions like...(yeah i added players that arn't ours, this is an illustration).....

chimbo,kaboul,davies,rocha
ghaly(zoinks!),zokora,steed,taylor
berbs,keane/bent

they woulda won this game. and us still have first choicers like lennon, bale, king, dawson to come back and our bright young hopes tarby, boateng etc to move up and in too. and even some better second choicers like Lee to come back too.
bad selection today(too much "experience" over tactics), missing too many key players, and poor spirit. blame can be spread between jol, the players and injuries, but mostly Jol as he is responsable for initial 11 and choosing what he has on the bench. i just hope he's learnt from today.

and lets sell jenas and gardner, neither are good enough, and i admit i REALLY don't like them, but i don't think either are good enough as 2nd string players either, not with our ambition

[SCIFIN17YID]

No, mate You´re a idiot! Since he came to Spurs, he spent, after Chelsea, the most for transfers. And what we get ??? A CM players playing winger positions. Spending 16.5 mil on a striker who is sitting on a bench, and not buying a natural winger which we need desperately is a IDIOTIC!!!!!!!!!!!! So, if you think Jol will bring us to Champions league, with his defensive tactic, and his ridiculous choice of starting line-up, than mate, YOU´RE a ****ING IDIOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Want to fu*cking meet up ?

[fluke]

Glad we got rid of the dead wood then!

[Ginola's Son]

You're a patronising little ****er, aren't you?

You even agree with the analysis, but have to make your petty comments.

I am thinking about the game and calling it as I see it.

Why couldn't Jol see the obvious before the game? You could have asked people on here before hand about that midfield and they would have told you it was inept. He made a **** of it today and it cost us 3 points, end of.

Who cares if you have the ball and run down blind alley ways or go nowhere?

I don't want him to be sacked or anything. I defended him last year when people wanted him out. He tends to learn from his errors, but he was very slow last year to recognise that playing a pedestrian line-up doesn't win you games.

You'd think he'd have learned that lesson, which is part of the reason why I am so pissed with him. We need to get it all right this year to keep berba and make cl. Football is hard enough without shooting yourself in the foot.

We can't afford stupid **** ups over long periods like last year. We just had one today. If it continues we are going to be struggling for fifth again.

I can't see any patronage, I was the one told to shut the **** up. Your rant was overblown and over the top.

I agree with some of the analysis, but this ultra doom and gloom effect, like this is the end of our season is something I don't appreciate.

The pedestrian line-up in some areas couldn't be helped. Rocha was needed as a centre-half back up so couldn't play LB, Stalteri came in, out of position and did the best he could. Rocha should have played for Gardner I quite agree... Our midfield on paper had to be picked as it was. When your facing a team of grafters, then you have to play your Tainio's. Jenas is so hit and miss, but he did get his foot stuck in today I thought. Zokora played well, and Malbranque was the realistic option to play today. If you're looking for blame, the forwards certainly did not live up to their billing today.

[Defoe8]

I don't know, what else would you call playing Gardner in the centre! :eek:



Foolish!!

Risk taking would have been playing Routledge (possibly even Ghaly) on the RW, Tarrabat on the LW and Boetang in AM.

[Jol's Yid Army]

Martin Jol isn't a risk taker, and that needs to change fast!!

Your comment is so true. I feel he always worries about the other team rather than looking at our strengths. You dont see Fergie, Mourinho or Peeeedo worrying about the opposition. Mr Jol you've gotta take risks in this life or your never succeed, in which I mean breaking into the top four.

[denis-cro]

Want to fu*cking meet up ?
Sure, why not, but I doubt You´ll came to Croatia to meet me up :)

[irishspur]

Lets not jump on the ridiculous JOL OUT bandwagon. Yes, he made mistakes but lets judge him after the other 37 league games.

[choda]

I can't see any patronage, I was the one told to shut the **** up. Your rant was overblown and over the top.

I agree with some of the analysis, but this ultra doom and gloom effect, like this is the end of our season is something I don't appreciate.

The pedestrian line-up in some areas couldn't be helped. Rocha was needed as a centre-half back up so couldn't play LB, Stalteri came in, out of position and did the best he could. Rocha should have played for Gardner I quite agree... Our midfield on paper had to be picked as it was. When your facing a team of grafters, then you have to play your Tainio's. Jenas is so hit and miss, but he did get his foot stuck in today I thought. Zokora played well, and Malbranque was the realistic option to play today. If you're looking for blame, the forwards certainly did not live up to their billing today.

It's not doom and gloom. I'm still hopeful we will get our act together and challenge for fourth. But you won't do it with that midfield.

It's complete bollox that the midfield had to be picked like that. You have Taarby and Routledge.

You're the one taking shit and then saying I am going over the top. The midfield failed miserably.

And in case you didn't notice they had two wingers and Yorke in their midfield. All you have to do is put your own line up out, balanced, potent and get them to work as hard as they can and get stuck in. That's what sunderland did and that's what we should have done.

We have more quality therefore we would have most likely beaten them comfortably.

When manu even played wimbeledon did they take out the wingers? No. You match them for aggression and play your own game. We had ample strength in there with Zokora and Jenas (they aren't brutish but they work hard) versus Etuhu and Yorke.

If your so worred maybe put Tainio in there instead of Zokora or Jenas.

I'm talking about having width and pace.

I'm not fussed about the rest of the team, it was not so bad. But I'd have put in Rocha instead of Tony. That was another misjudgement, as if Sunderland are a long ball team or something. It wasn't the main problem though anyway.

[Welsh Spur]

I can't see any patronage, I was the one told to shut the **** up. Your rant was overblown and over the top.

I agree with some of the analysis, but this ultra doom and gloom effect, like this is the end of our season is something I don't appreciate.

The pedestrian line-up in some areas couldn't be helped. Rocha was needed as a centre-half back up so couldn't play LB, Stalteri came in, out of position and did the best he could. Rocha should have played for Gardner I quite agree... Our midfield on paper had to be picked as it was. When your facing a team of grafters, then you have to play your Tainio's. Jenas is so hit and miss, but he did get his foot stuck in today I thought. Zokora played well, and Malbranque was the realistic option to play today. If you're looking for blame, the forwards certainly did not live up to their billing today.

I have to be honest GS, you're completely wrong. Choda's "rant" was right on the money. Somewhere Jol has yet to locate. Someone called him an incompetent buffon last season, and day by day, game by game, it is becoming more and more true. Don't get me wrong, I love what he's done for us as a club but Jesus christ - what kind of tactical ideas was he using today?

I'm am sorry but there is absolutely no sense in using four central midfielders in four midfield slots. Why?
1. There was no width
2. The players he did use on the flanks are inept (in those positions)
3. We have Taarabt, hell, Routledge should have even been involved, even on the bench.

Putting both Defoe and Bent on the bench was ridiculous, look, if Defoe wants to go then ****ing pack him off, don't put him on the bench and use him when there was no need, it seemed to me it was just to keep him happy, Taarabt could have come on instead - Defoe did **** all - and given some creativity.

Finally why the **** would you buy another defender, shit, a versatile one like Rocha and then use two players completely out of their depth instead of him. I think I did see Rocha's name on the subs bench though? Stalteri's bad enough on the right and he sticks him on the ****ing left? Today pissed me off. Big time.

All this "we can break top 4" bullshit - ****ing forget it, or buck your ****ing ideas up fast. My personal opinion is, unless we are fighting for or have achieved top 4 at the last game of the season (i.e. there is still a mathematical chance of being fourth dependant on the final days results) then I'm afraid it will be time for the big man to go. He spent too much, I still feel like I'm watching the same Spurs side as two years ago, we don't seem to be getting better at all.

[Ginola's Son]

So you think you would have got a performance out of Routledge today? A man stuck out on loan for the last two seasons? A man who must be quite aware that the club don't think that highly of him? He'd have been crap too, I can't prove that of course, just a theory.

As for Taraabt, a substitute option yes, but never a starter, he's just a kid and this game was too important.

[Welsh Spur]

Well the multi million pound players who did get the nod obviously didnt think it was important did they. taarabt is a kid dying to impress and it would have been perfect for him. Not sayin Rout should have started but he could have been an option. If hes got the right attitude then he'll show what he can do not sulk coz he cant get a game.

If this is how our 1st team plays an important game then we're ****ed

[Ginola's Son]

I have to be honest GS, you're completely wrong. Choda's "rant" was right on the money. Somewhere Jol has yet to locate. Someone called him an incompetent buffon last season, and day by day, game by game, it is becoming more and more true. Don't get me wrong, I love what he's done for us as a club but Jesus christ - what kind of tactical ideas was he using today?

He must be the most competant of incompetant managers to engineer two top five finishes in one of the toughest leagues in the world. His tactics are off sometimes, but not always, after a glorious win, no-one ever says a word about the dodgy bringing on of Gardner or what have you, when a defeat comes our way, Jol has to take all the abuse for his nonsensical selection, he deserves to be criticised yes, villified no.


I'm am sorry but there is absolutely no sense in using four central midfielders in four midfield slots. Why?
1. There was no width
2. The players he did use on the flanks are inept (in those positions)
3. We have Taarabt, hell, Routledge should have even been involved, even on the bench.

I happen to think that Steed is quite handy down the flanks, and proved so a few times last season. Routledge playing a part is a debate for sure, but I still maintain that a gritty player like Tainio on paper was the right choice.

Putting both Defoe and Bent on the bench was ridiculous, look, if Defoe wants to go then ****ing pack him off, don't put him on the bench and use him when there was no need, it seemed to me it was just to keep him happy, Taarabt could have come on instead - Defoe did **** all - and given some creativity.

Defoe has not indicated at any point that he wants to go, the man has showed remarkable maturity by remaining loyal to the team even though he's aware he's not first or even third option. He has come out at least twice and said he loves the club and will sweat it out. And he only gets kudos from me. Defoe did **** all because the team at that point had collapsed and were willing on their winner. Hudd I blame more than anyone for playing absolutely crud when he came on. Bent also did **** all. Keane also did **** all. And Berby was way off the pace.

Finally why the **** would you buy another defender, shit, a versatile one like Rocha and then use two players completely out of their depth instead of him. I think I did see Rocha's name on the subs bench though? Stalteri's bad enough on the right and he sticks him on the ****ing left? Today pissed me off. Big time.

Yes, totally agree. How Gardner has remained at my club so long is a mystery, the man is a menace.

All this "we can break top 4" bullshit - ****ing forget it, or buck your ****ing ideas up fast. My personal opinion is, unless we are fighting for or have achieved top 4 at the last game of the season then I'm afraid it will be time for the big man to go. He spent too much, I still feel like I'm watching the same Spurs side as two years ago, we don't seem to be getting better at all.

I agree with that, the top four talk is BULLSHIT, it's spurs fans and the press getting ahead of themselves, as I've said already, we don't have the mentality to do it, over the long haul.

[choda]

So you think you would have got a performance out of Routledge today? A man stuck out on loan for the last two seasons? A man who must be quite aware that the club don't think that highly of him? He'd have been crap too, I can't prove that of course, just a theory.

As for Taraabt, a substitute option yes, but never a starter, he's just a kid and this game was too important.

Well, this is what jol has left himself with. And I also question whether that's good enough. Those are the like for like options, like it or not. It's better to have some outlets even if they are too young or not good enough overall. At least they will give you another dimension.

Tainio was a nothing player today. Any winger would have been better. Mal was huff and ouf and nothing much better, as usual. He's a central player or simple not good enough.

And Taarby has shown us enough to warrant a place at least on the bench. He's a cracking talent. And routledge is a like for like for lennon, in style. He has good games. At least it's his positon.

I've every right to moan about this. I've been wanting it fixed for two years. But still not enough wide options and he even ignores the ones has.

[jrio]

So you think you would have got a performance out of Routledge today?

Not on the basis of his performance in pre-season. Inexplicable that Taarabt wasn't even on the bench instead of Defoe. Shockingly inept selections from BMJ.

[Keanoldinho]

Routledge should of started simply because he's a direct replacement for Lennon and Taarabt should of at least been on the bench. Rocha should of definately played instead of Gardner who's absolute shite in its purest form. It's all over now so roll on Everton I need to forget about this game it was a bloody disaster. Sunderlands whole line up would be in our reserve team it's just an embaressment.

[Ginola's Son]

I've every right to moan about this. I've been wanting it fixed for two years. But still not enough wide options and he even ignores the ones has.


And I think I've got every right to challenge these moans.

Tues will be a different story. This was just newly promoted team luck and no more, we didn't play THAT badly.

[hastingsyid]

whats all this bollox about wanna meet up for a row.ffs fellas were all pissed off after this result but lets all calm the **** down and chill.

[choda]

And I think I've got every right to challenge these moans.

Tues will be a different story. This was just newly promoted team luck and no more, we didn't play THAT badly.

You need your eyes examined.

Big improvement needed.

[Ginola's Son]

I'm not the only one who thinks that

[choda]

Routledge should of started simply because he's a direct replacement for Lennon and Taarabt should of at least been on the bench. Rocha should of definately played instead of Gardner who's absolute shite in its purest form. It's all over now so roll on Everton I need to forget about this game it was a bloody disaster. Sunderlands whole line up would be in our reserve team it's just an embaressment.

Fair play to you Keanolidinho, at least when you watched the game you could see what was happening.

[Welsh Spur]

To be honest I'm more bitter than usual due to the nature of this defeat. Lets be honest, did Sunderland deserve to win today? ABSOLUTELY NOT. Fair enough, they kept going and their defenders played very well, but a draw really was the fair outcome. To lose with basically the last kick of the game, especially from that little **** Chopra, has left me tampin for the day.

But anyway - the selections of Gardner, Stalteri and Tainio today were shite. Utter Shite. Tainio's only just come back from injury - and Taarabt is looking a fair handful - yet he picks Tainio?

Stalteri over Rocha was plain dull. Fair enough, no-one wanted either Stlateri or Gardner and but I think one of them would have had to have played. Shit how about this-

Ifil-Kaboul-Chim-Rocha

And don't give me shit about Ifil being unready - he played in a season opener TWO YEARS AGO against Liverpool. I'd have preferred the above to what I saw today. gardner is a liability, plain and simple, and Stalteri is not a PL defender - end of. What that abbreviation again? NGE.

Hudd I think is not going to turn out the player we all think. He's too slow, and lacks brain - yes he can hit a great shot and a wonderful pass but his flaws come to the fore way more.

[choda]

It's not so much the result that is annoying me it's the team selection and the resulting performance.

[Keanoldinho]

I'm sitting here watching Citeh with Elano in the middle and Petrov on the wing and they look dangerous I'm ****ing jealous.

[SurreySpur]

whats all this bollox about wanna meet up for a row.ffs fellas were all pissed off after this result but lets all calm the **** down and chill.

Spot on Hastings.

An away game to a newly promoted team like Sunderland is a somewhat unknown quantity, they were fired up and with 45k fans behind them they did well. Neither team deserved a win but sometimes these thing happen.

We looked negative and at times lethargic, Jenas surely has to be on borrowed time, he seems to offer us absolutley nothing. Hopefully the management will realise this and replace him.

We'll turn Everton over in midweek and we'll push on form there.

[Welsh Spur]

I'm not the only one who thinks that

I didn't think we were awful, only for the last 20 mins really thats when our heads went.

We definately did not deserve to lose to a pile of shite like Sunderland.

Like I said I'm just worked up due to the nature of this loss - the last kick of the game. If we'd have got a point then I think we'd all be relatively happy. Its just that bit of poor luck right at the death that have highlighted MJ's ineptitude today.

[Ginola's Son]

Jenas is NOT on borrowed time though is he? Jol seems to adore him

[Welsh Spur]

I'm sitting here watching Citeh with Elano in the middle and Petrov on the wing and they look dangerous I'm ****ing jealous.

Citeh will be this seasons surprise package. Mark my words. I have really been left gutted/jealous by their transfer dealings this summer.

[Keanoldinho]

To be honest I'm more bitter than usual due to the nature of this defeat. Lets be honest, did Sunderland deserve to win today? ABSOLUTELY NOT. Fair enough, they kept going and their defenders played very well, but a draw really was the fair outcome. To lose with basically the last kick of the game, especially from that little **** Chopra, has left me tampin for the day.

But anyway - the selections of Gardner, Stalteri and Tainio today were shite. Utter Shite. Tainio's only just come back from injury - and Taarabt is looking a fair handful - yet he picks Tainio?

Stalteri over Rocha was plain dull. Fair enough, no-one wanted either Stlateri or Gardner and but I think one of them would have had to have played. Shit how about this-

Ifil-Kaboul-Chim-Rocha

And don't give me shit about Ifil being unready - he played in a season opener TWO YEARS AGO against Liverpool. I'd have preferred the above to what I saw today. gardner is a liability, plain and simple, and Stalteri is not a PL defender - end of. What that abbreviation again? NGE.

Hudd I think is not going to turn out the player we all think. He's too slow, and lacks brain - yes he can hit a great shot and a wonderful pass but his flaws come to the fore way more.


I agree with you there he just seems to be a big slow idiot when we took Zokora off we may as well not had a midfield out there at all.

I don't think Salty was that bad but Gardner is woeful we need Curtis Davies badly and MGP or Taylor or Sniejder or Downing.

When does Bale get back anyone know if he'll be available for Everton?

[Ginola's Son]

I didn't think we were awful, only for the last 20 mins really thats when our heads went.

We definately did not deserve to lose to a pile of shite like Sunderland.

Like I said I'm just worked up due to the nature of this loss - the last kick of the game. If we'd have got a point then I think we'd all be relatively happy. Its just that bit of poor luck right at the death that have highlighted MJ's ineptitude today.

Of course the nature of the defeat hurts, you wouldn't be a fan of your club if it didn't, a point snatched away and replaced with zilch all in a heartbeat. But it happens all the time, 90th minute shenanigans, sometimes you benefit, sometimes not.

[olly27]

I am aware that managers should be looking at the opposition when formulating their tactics for a particular match.However the main thrust of Jol's tactics should be about deploying our strengths to maximum effect given the quality of the opposition.Jenas and Zokora in the midfield should be providing enough in terms of battling for possession and Zokora breaking up the play and protecting the back four ..yes its an away match against a newly promoted combative side under a hungary manager who many expect to do well...Not only, for me at least, were the selections wrong across parts of the midfield..it just screamed that we were more concerned about containing them than concentrating on our own game...I think Roy Keane would have taken it as a compliment when he saw our midfield before kick off...an outlet would of least gave them something to think about...remember when Jol took lennon and berby off againt Chelscum 3-1 up...everyone can make mistakes...but successfull managers learn from them and in the end make more right decisions than wrong ones...I hope big Martin goes down that road...two home games next...6 points required simple as that.

[choda]

I don't think Sunderland are shite. I reckon they will finish in the top 14. They are a different kettle of fish now.

But it's not much to do with us. We were bad today, and as I say I think it was all tactical.

The players did do some good things, but it was all predictable and without enough options.

[SurreySpur]

When does Bale get back anyone know if he'll be available for Everton?

I think i read that he's 2/3 weeks away from full match fitness

[jrio]

. Shit how about this-

Ifil-Kaboul-Chim-Rocha

And don't give me shit about Ifil being unready - he played in a season opener TWO YEARS AGO against Liverpool. I'd have preferred the above to what I saw today. gardner is a liability, plain and simple, and Stalteri is not a PL defender - end of. What that abbreviation again? NGE.

Hudd I think is not going to turn out the player we all think. He's too slow, and lacks brain - yes he can hit a great shot and a wonderful pass but his flaws come to the fore way more.
Ifil played quite poorly against Liverpool and has done nothing since to indicate he belongs in a PL side. I'd have played Gardner at LB where he can do little damage. Stalteri looks the free transfer he is.

Hudd's gotta long way to go. The passing of Carrick with little else. Wouldn't be surprised if he left at the end of the season.

[choda]

I am aware that managers should be looking at the opposition when formulating their tactics for a particular match.However the main thrust of Jol's tactics should be about deploying our strengths to maximum effect given the quality of the opposition.Jenas and Zokora in the midfield should be providing enough in terms of battling for possession and Zokora breaking up the play and protecting the back four ..yes its an away match against a newly promoted combative side under a hungary manager who many expect to do well...Not only, for me at least, were the selections wrong across parts of the midfield..it just screamed that we were more concerned about containing them than concentrating on our own game...I think Roy Keane would have taken it as a compliment when he saw our midfield before kick off...an outlet would of least gave them something to think about...remember when Jol took lennon and berby off againt Chelscum 3-1 up...everyone can make mistakes...but successfull managers learn from them and in the end make more right decisions than wrong ones...I hope big Martin goes down that road...two home games next...6 points required simple as that.

Roy Keane picked Yorke and two wingers. It says it all. He didn't pick millar on the right or any ****ing about to contain us. He focused on his own team largely, which is what you should do.

But he ain't stupid either, he had a guy on Hudd like a fly on shit as soon as he came on.

I don't want to make it seem like I hate jol, because I don't but he was totally outclassed today.

[jrio]

We looked negative and at times lethargic, Jenas surely has to be on borrowed time, he seems to offer us absolutley nothing. Hopefully the management will realise this and replace him.

A lot of fans will be disappointed because Jol was lavishly praising JJ in an interview several days ago, when he again made the same appraisal of Dawson over last season(his possible player of the season). It's clear JJ is central to his plans and nothing will alter that.

[jrio]

When does Bale get back anyone know if he'll be available for Everton?

No, another 2 weeks.

[jrio]

I don't think Sunderland are shite. I reckon they will finish in the top 14. They are a different kettle of fish now.

How do you think that side would do without Keane as their manager? Individually there's little quality but it was clear they were easily more than the sum of their parts.

[SurreySpur]

A lot of fans will be disappointed because Jol was lavishly praising JJ in an interview several days ago, when he again made the same appraisal of Dawson over last season(his possible player of the season). It's clear JJ is central to his plans and nothing will alter that.

I dont have a problem with managers having their favourites. It happens at every club.

JJ has the potential to be a very good player but he doesnt have the mentality of a lampard or gerrard. Its a very important position to gamble with especially when the rest of the midfield is constantly changing. Put Teemu in the middle with Zokora and play Flair wide players likeLennon and Taarabt.

[peterc]

WOO HOO, new season is new reason to get optimistic, or is it.....

Anyone remember the hope that sprung eternal last year, "ooh look at all our bright shinny new toys recruited to give a bit of worldly nowhow to our talented but callow squad. We're gonna win something this year I just know it...who's the first game against...ah Bolton away a walk in the park that one, we'll murd....oh crap..."

Sunderland 1 (Chopra (he's the only Mackem I can think of) Spurs 1 (Keane) the Sunderland fans to wet themselves in excitment at least 2 hours before kick off, Jenas to turn up 1 1/2 hours after kick off, Keane (R) to make Keane (R) drool with a sublime piece of skill for Spurs equaliser.

Well, you were right about Chopra, lets hope we will play much better against Everton.

[Defoe8]

Right, this in my opinion with the current injuries we have, what the starting XI should be:

GK - Robbo
LB - ???
CB - Kaboul
CB - Rocha
RB - Chimbonda

LW - Tarrabat
DM - Zokara
AM - Boteang
RW - Routledge/Ghaly/youth team player

CF - Berbatov
CF - Bent

We need width desperately, and Jenas just isn't good enough to play in a top 6 team.

Keano seems to be very good as a super sub, and with Bent we'd have pace and power up front.

Can Iffil play at LB??

[peterc]

Right, this in my opinion with the current injuries we have, what the starting XI should be:

GK - Robbo
LB - ???
CB - Kaboul
CB - Rocha
RB - Chimbonda

LW - Tarrabat
DM - Zokara
AM - Boteang
RW - Routledge/Ghaly/youth team player

CF - Berbatov
CF - Bent

We need width desperately, and Jenas just isn't good enough to play in a top 6 team.

Keano seems to be very good as a super sub, and with Bent we'd have pace and power up front.

Can Iffil play at LB??

Ghaly, sorry mate, he should never wear our colours again END OF..................

[Defoe8]

I hate Ghaly, but we are desperate for some sort of width in the midfield.

What position does Rose play btw?

Martin Jol, I hope to never see the exact lineup vs Sunderland again this season.

More worrying though alot of pundits are saying are midfield in general is just not good enough and don't create enough chances.

What we need is another quality AM, like Van Der Vaart or Sneijder, as if Boteang gets injured we'll be in trouble.

[Ginola's Son]

We don't even know if Boateng's any good yet

[choda]

How do you think that side would do without Keane as their manager? Individually there's little quality but it was clear they were easily more than the sum of their parts.

That side as in our club or the side we put out?

He'd struggle with the side we put out, anyone would, but I don't think he'd have put out a side with no wingers.

He played Richiardsen and Edwards against a much bigger club, says it all.

It's early days, but I always thought he'd be a great manager. He is very knowledge and very sharp. Reading his book I could see he knows the game inside out. And so far he hasn't done anything to suggest otherwise.

Jol could still be a great manager, but days like today suggest he may fall short. I thought he was appalling today.

[choda]

I hate Ghaly, but we are desperate for some sort of width in the midfield.

What position does Rose play btw?

Martin Jol, I hope to never see the exact lineup vs Sunderland again this season.

More worrying though alot of pundits are saying are midfield in general is just not good enough and don't create enough chances.

What we need is another quality AM, like Van Der Vaart or Sneijder, as if Boteang gets injured we'll be in trouble.

Left wing.

[jrio]

I hate Ghaly, but we are desperate for some sort of width in the midfield.
For throwing his shirt on the pitch? More instructively, Bruce criticised him for saying: "we don't do this at Tottenham, we don't do that at Tottenham". Seems Ghaly liked a lot of what he did at Tottenham. Could be the greatest comeback since Elvis in '68.

[Keanoldinho]

Right, this in my opinion with the current injuries we have, what the starting XI should be:

GK - Robbo
LB - ???
CB - Kaboul
CB - Rocha
RB - Chimbonda

LW - Tarrabat
DM - Zokara
AM - Boteang
RW - Routledge/Ghaly/youth team player

CF - Berbatov
CF - Bent

We need width desperately, and Jenas just isn't good enough to play in a top 6 team.

Keano seems to be very good as a super sub, and with Bent we'd have pace and power up front.

Can Iffil play at LB??


We've finished 5th the past two seasons with Jenas in CM most games. The problem today was on the wings and Gardner at the back was awful to. Boateng isn't match fit yet either so he'll need a week or two so against Everton I hope we see

--------------Robbo
---Chimbo Kaboul Rocha Salty
-Routledge Zokora Jenas Taarabt
-----------Berby Bent

subs: Cerny Gardner Tainio Malbranque Keano

[jrio]

That side as in our club or the side we put out?

Not sure how you misread that as it responds to your post about Sunderland "not being rubbish" and says "how would they do without Keane as manager".

For Keane it was a great opportunity as how much lower could they have gone? What he has done had been not much short of incredible, probably miraculous. Very noticeable that as a manager he is so detached and you'd never guess from watching him on the touchline, and in interviews, that he is an active manager. Almost like he's playing Championship Manager, but it's for real.

As for MJ, big problems. Completely inept midfield, inexplicable defensive choices, tactics look Erikkson-like, and subs made no sense. I've never had the sense he'd be a great manager, more a competent, chummy one.

[Richard Wells]

typical ****ing tottenham. i knew the signings were flatering to decieve, all that money spent , and where is the left winger? for **** sake the midfield has had no change, the one thing that needs balance. the midfield were clueless, all of them made the effort, but too much fannying around, losing possesion so often its criminal. no orginisation whatsoever. no gameplan. makes you wonder what to they get told to do?

bent has to be a starter. the midfield needs direction and balance. hoping we get someone in before the end of the window. id be delighted with matty taylor.

its only one result and ive said all pre season that id be happy with top6 . just because we got a striker for 16 million it dont mean we shoud get top 4. its up to martin to get this lot organised now, and once he gets a left winger he has no excuses.

[proto]

@ Jiro LOL indeed ;)

balancing ghaly the tantrum thrower V's ghaly the player who can play properly on the right. **** any misgivings about his personality. besideas, he earned his kudos loosing his teeth for us, then lost it tossing the shirt, as far as i'm concerned i can call that even, and maybe if he ain't the most awsome player, but hes good enough because just having the team spread properly would have improved matters no end.

rose is too young and tarby can't be our only left side player (he isn't even left footed is he?). i say again, buy the taylor bloke NOW for whatever he costs. for the same argument as ghaly, its better to have the right players in the right places than amazing players in the wrong places (or like today, average ones out of position).

by making a sensible purchase now and boateng working out we could have a decent workable proper midfield.
lennon/ghaly, zokora/hudd, boateng/steed, tarby/taylor and tanio and routledge extra cover centraly and on the sides respectivly. and theres room to shift about too, lennon went central, or swapped with tarby midmatch or whatever, 10x better than todays layout. and get davis in too to replace gardner. finish 4th

and then next summer after some success splash out on a world class attacking midfielder and put steed in the utility bracket again. and maybe let routledge and ghaly go and get a real class lefty and a righty as well. rose and some of the other young prospects flower too.

there, i got it all worked out, world domination in 5 realistic signings(2 now, 3 next summer), 4 players being shown the door, a squad thats got options but ones even Jol can't get wrong and all over 2 seasons. 2009/2010 and the spurs run of consecutive titles and CL finals start :p


heres to beer and daydreams :cool:

[choda]

Not sure how you misread that as it responds to your post about Sunderland "not being rubbish" and says "how would they do without Keane as manager".

For Keane it was a great opportunity as how much lower could they have gone? What he has done had been not much short of incredible, probably miraculous. Very noticeable that as a manager he is so detached and you'd never guess from watching him on the touchline, and in interviews, that he is an active manager. Almost like he's playing Championship Manager, but it's for real.

As for MJ, big problems. Completely inept midfield, inexplicable defensive choices, tactics look Erikkson-like, and subs made no sense. I've never had the sense he'd be a great manager, more a competent, chummy one.

Oops! I've got a sore head and throat, forgive me.

Okay, my answer to your question is: not very good. Although I think he has bought quite well for the money has had.

But they are a seamlessly well oiled unit defensively, they work hard and they know what is expected of them attacking wise. They play the ball out and keep it rolling etc. More than the sum of their parts describes it exactly.

I'm hugely impressed with every aspect of his management. He's now also transferred the aura he has from player to manager without missing a beat. He's a lot more savvy and intelligent than people know.

Objectively, I thought they were worth their win today, at least in the moral sense.

By the way what did you think of McShane today? Good player isn't he? He's been in the Ireland team for the last year and he's let nobody down.

In my fantasy team. ;)

As for MJ, last year there were many complaints about him, and both of us stuck by him. But we also said that last year, this year and next are the main tests for Jol's credentials. Overall, I still think he has done well so far.

I can't say how far he can go. I'm just not sure. He has aspects of excellence followed by days like today where he was just awful.

My big concerns with him would be one, he seems to oversimplify with some players: You score you are a great player for me... two: His idea that the 'modern' game has left wingers behind... and three: The way to kill a game is to sit back and let them have territory and possesion and hit them on the counter.

Every time I see errors with spur's tactics it is down to one of these three mistaken perceptions.

I really hope it will change with spurs. He deserves the benefit and much of last years struggle I still maintain was down to getting used to extra games and the team growing up. However, some of the tactics have to be improved.

That's the question with Jol; are you a manager or just a top class coach?

[choda]

We've finished 5th the past two seasons with Jenas in CM most games. The problem today was on the wings and Gardner at the back was awful to. Boateng isn't match fit yet either so he'll need a week or two so against Everton I hope we see

--------------Robbo
---Chimbo Kaboul Rocha Salty
-Routledge Zokora Jenas Taarabt
-----------Berby Bent

subs: Cerny Gardner Tainio Malbranque Keano

Yes, but we also finished fifth with Salty in the side. Is he a top six player?

I thought Jenas was cool on the ball today in the first half. He actually looked in control. It bodes well, but one things for sure mate, he has got to be much better than the last two years. Otherwise he is concern as well as cover for the wide positions.

We can't be content anymore with decent or good, we have to be the real deal in defence, midfield and attack. We are only top class up front as it is.

Kaboul looks ****ing awesome though, and hopefully Bale is the man for left back. Lee was very astute defensively last year, beefed up and was good coming out with the ball. He also got better going forward but he was still painfully lacking a left foot for crossing.

It's a big year for the midfield players. It's big year for Jenas, Zokora, Hudd, Boeteng and Taarabt. They all have to be players for us, or at least some of them force themselves to be the first mid names on the sheet.

As for many people suddenly wanting Bent over Keane. What has suddenly changed there? I always said I don't mind which plays, I like both, and nothing has changed for me.

Keane wasn't bad, he was good first half for the little service he got. I don't really get that one. Bent didn't get any service either.

[Keanoldinho]

Yes, but we also finished fifth with Salty in the side. Is he a top six player?

I thought Jenas was cool on the ball today in the first half. He actually looked in control. It bodes well, but one things for sure mate, he has got to be much better than the last two years. Otherwise he is concern as well as cover for the wide positions.

We can't be content anymore with decent or good, we have to be the real deal in defence, midfield and attack. We are only top class up front as it is.

Kaboul looks ****ing awesome though, and hopefully Bale is the man for left back. Lee was very astute defensively last year, beefed up and was good coming out with the ball. He also got better going forward but he was still painfully lacking a left foot for crossing.

It's a big year for the midfield players. It's big year for Jenas, Zokora, Hudd, Boeteng and Taarabt. They all have to be players for us, or at least some of them force themselves to be the first mid names on the sheet.

As for many people suddenly wanting Bent over Keane. What has suddenly changed there? I always said I don't mind which plays, I like both, and nothing has changed for me.

Keane wasn't bad, he was good first half for the little service he got. I don't really get that one. Bent didn't get any service either.


I think Salty is a good back up he didn't do much wrong today and gets alot of unfair stick. Jenas definately needs to improve on his performance today he was ok at the beginning but faded out along with Tainio and Malbranque when Boateng gets match fitness he could be in trouble.

I've got a feeling Bale will be used as our left winger with Lee or Ekotto behind him because he's a very attack minded player and as for Bent in and Keano on the bench it's simply because we just spent 16.5 mil on him and he needs to be starting.

[choda]

I think Salty is a good back up he didn't do much wrong today and gets alot of unfair stick. Jenas definately needs to improve on his performance today he was ok at the beginning but faded out along with Tainio and Malbranque when Boateng gets match fitness he could be in trouble.

I've got a feeling Bale will be used as our left winger with Lee or Ekotto behind him because he's a very attack minded player and as for Bent in and Keano on the bench it's simply because we just spent 16.5 mil on him and he needs to be starting.

He does get some unfair stick, but he's not a top player. He gets caught for pace and he's not a great footballer.

Some say we'd have made cl only for him. And some say with more wingers and a better Jenas we would have been uefa winners and very much in the hunt for third last year.

With Bent I don't get that logic. It's not about money. And if we sold Keane it would be for a similar figure anyway.

[wayne wonder]

Right my saturdays well ****e dup ive not answered the phone or door and i dont wanna go out thanks lads!!

Jenas i cant be arsed talking about because Etuh scared him that many times i thik he actually shitted himseld. Gardner and Stalteri aren't even good back up players for a start and i dont care what anyone says Tainio is shit he might give it 100% but he's not up to scratch and is too slow.

Can someone tell me why play Roooooooooutelidge and Tarby all pres season only for them not to be in the 16?????????????????:confused:

Keano PISSES me oss when he starts waiving his hands in the air like a ****ing raver instead of chasing back and playing to the whistle and Berbs just looked like he couldn't be arsed to play with such tripe!!!

[choda]

Right my saturdays well ****e dup ive not answered the phone or door and i dont wanna go out thanks lads!!

Jenas i cant be arsed talking about because Etuh scared him that many times i thik he actually shitted himseld. Gardner and Stalteri aren't even good back up players for a start and i dont care what anyone says Tainio is shit he might give it 100% but he's not up to scratch and is too slow.

Can someone tell me why play Roooooooooutelidge and Tarby all pres season only for them not to be in the 16?????????????????:confused:

Keano PISSES me oss when he starts waiving his hands in the air like a ****ing raver instead of chasing back and playing to the whistle and Berbs just looked like he couldn't be arsed to play with such tripe!!!

Exactly, why play them pre-season and then drop them like hot potatoes?

Taarabt was one of the reasons for a great pre-season. That's another reason why I was so annoyed. He gave the indication that he had learnt from last year and the year before that a 442 squad actually needs plenty of wingers!

[wayne wonder]

Exactly, why play them pre-season and then drop them like hot potatoes?

Taarabt was one of the reasons for a great pre-season. That's another reason why I was so annoyed. He gave the indication that he had learnt from last year and the year before that a 442 squad actually needs plenty of wingers!

Even if you play with one winger at least you have an outlet we had 4 central mids on the pitch today shocking!! We never did the basics which was keeping possesion instead we hoofed it up to berbatov hoping it would stick etc

Only shinning light is Kaboul he's Baresi for 2007 and beyond i feel he could play i midfield he's that comfortable on the ball he's what rio ferdinand should be like as he has the skill

[Keanoldinho]

He does get some unfair stick, but he's not a top player. He gets caught for pace and he's not a great footballer.

Some say we'd have made cl only for him. And some say with more wingers and a better Jenas we would have been uefa winners and very much in the hunt for third last year.

With Bent I don't get that logic. It's not about money. And if we sold Keane it would be for a similar figure anyway.


Some people say alot of things but all that he say she say crap has no basis in reality because they don't really know they're just running their mouths.

Salty isn't a top player but he gets stuck in and has experience the man did nothing wrong at all today.

It's not all about money with Bent either but the fact is he is the only one of our forwards with blistering pace and he's our record signing so he needs to be starting against Everton. We can't drop Berbatov for him because he's in a league of his own and Keano usually makes a good impact coming off the bench so I'd give Berby and Bent a run of games and see how things go.

[jrio]

By the way what did you think of McShane today? Good player isn't he? He's been in the Ireland team for the last year and he's let nobody down.
He caught my eye by the second half and he seemed a very confident player.
My impression was that the only team likely to score a hatful of goals there would be ManU, simply because of their attacking options and philosophy. Expect a lot of low-scoring draws at Sunderland this season.


My big concerns with him would be one, he seems to oversimplify with some players: You score you are a great player for me... two: His idea that the 'modern' game has left wingers behind... and three: The way to kill a game is to sit back and let them have territory and possesion and hit them on the counter.
Apparently his idea is that you need one winger for pace and penetration behind a solid 3 midfield. He thinks that 2 wide players leaves the team too vulnerable. I don't see how that marries with last season when we looked very vulnerable due to a soft centre. You can see how it worked with Carrick, a much under-appreciated player(I was one of those, largely due to his inaccurate shooting). But surely today cried out for a natural wide player like Taarabt allied with someone like Mal on the right? I don't see how any Spurs manager can think about killing games bearing in mind Spurs' values and heritage. We simply don't have the players and tactics to achieve that. Clubs like Arsenal and Liverpool have it as a mindset but when have Spurs ever been able to replicate that, even under a manager like Graham? There is a lot of expectation on Spurs' shoulders this season, not without reason, and it's better to go out as a heroic failure than to whimper and die.

[wayne wonder]

McShane looked good today then again that wasn't hard! I watched hima few times for albion last season and he looked great at right back gets stuck in probably not the quickest but decent

Lets get Davies in and give them gardner

[choda]

Some people say alot of things but all that he say she say crap has no basis in reality because they don't really know they're just running their mouths.

Salty isn't a top player but he gets stuck in and has experience the man did nothing wrong at all today.

It's not all about money with Bent either but the fact is he is the only one of our forwards with blistering pace and he's our record signing so he needs to be starting against Everton. We can't drop Berbatov for him because he's in a league of his own and Keano usually makes a good impact coming off the bench so I'd give Berby and Bent a run of games and see how things go.

Well, what about the three clumsy mistakes he made in the latter half of the season before last that cost us nine points? Is that not reality?

I think its harsh, he is fairly 'solid' and experienced, but I can see the point of view. They could be right.

And with a better attacking midfield, whether it be Jenas himself performing to his potential and better wide options would most defintiely have improved our side last year. And this year it is a must too.

Especially when the other areas of the squad that needed some addition got exactly what was required.

[choda]

He caught my eye by the second half and he seemed a very confident player.
My impression was that the only team likely to score a hatful of goals there would be ManU, simply because of their attacking options and philosophy. Expect a lot of low-scoring draws at Sunderland this season.


Apparently his idea is that you need one winger for pace and penetration behind a solid 3 midfield. He thinks that 2 wide players leaves the team too vulnerable. I don't see how that marries with last season when we looked very vulnerable due to a soft centre. You can see how it worked with Carrick, a much under-appreciated player(I was one of those, largely due to his inaccurate shooting). But surely today cried out for a natural wide player like Taarabt allied with someone like Mal on the right? I don't see how any Spurs manager can think about killing games bearing in mind Spurs' values and heritage. We simply don't have the players and tactics to achieve that. Clubs like Arsenal and Liverpool have it as a mindset but when have Spurs ever been able to replicate that, even under a manager like Graham? There is a lot of expectation on Spurs' shoulders this season, not without reason, and it's better to go out as a heroic failure than to whimper and die.

I totally agree.

But to an extent he is seeing what he wants to see. Fact of the matter is Manu won the league with two pacey dribblers on either flank, in as styish a manner as has been seen for many a year and Reading came up last year and played two wingers. Sunderland today played two wingers. That's three teams doing very well, and there are many others.

433 or 442 with one winger may be more suited to europe, which is why we maybe look better there, but in the prem it is not working well enough. I think the prem is a lot about pace and the up and down ding dong, which is why you need pace and ball players out wide.

I think you have to have one winger and one half winger at least and probably somebody to come on and shake it up if necessary. Today, as you know we had one half winger in Mal, a tackler in Tainio and nothing on the bench except strikers and putting another striker to the wing. :rolleyes:

[MACCSPURS]

with or without injuries, the squad we put out today was more than capable of beating the strongest Sunderland side.

It's because of this reason we "were" touted as possibly breaking into the top 4.

The fact we lost today cannot be blamed on players a few of us think are "crap".

[Keanoldinho]

Well, what about the three clumsy mistakes he made in the latter half of the season before last that cost us nine points? Is that not reality?

I think its harsh, he is fairly 'solid' and experienced, but I can see the point of view. They could be right.

And with a better attacking midfield, whether it be Jenas himself performing to his potential and better wide options would most defintiely have improved our side last year. And this year it is a must too.

Especially when the other areas of the squad that needed some addition got exactly what was required.


I can't remember all of them but the one against chelski I can and that was a bloody once in a lifetime goal for Gallas and the stick he got for that was undeserved.

[choda]

with or without injuries, the squad we put out today was more than capable of beating the strongest Sunderland side.

It's because of this reason we "were" touted as possibly breaking into the top 4.

The fact we lost today cannot be blamed on players a few of us think are "crap".

I'm not blaming the players. They just did exactly what would have been expected.

[choda]

I can't remember all of them but the one against chelski I can and that was a bloody once in a lifetime goal for Gallas and the stick he got for that was undeserved.

I just remember three times when he was somebody got in behind him when they shouldn't have, and he looked like a right donkey there and then and an even bigger one when they did some damage.

I was wrong to say 9 points, but he probably cost us 3-6 points that year, which would have been enough for cl.

It's conjecture and there are many reasons, but I can understand people saying it.

I can't remember the incidents, was Gallas one of the incidents he was villified for? Because I don't remember being annoyed with him about that. I only remember being annoyed at Carrick for not closing down properly.

[choda]

whats all this bollox about wanna meet up for a row.ffs fellas were all pissed off after this result but lets all calm the **** down and chill.

I wanna meet with you hastings. :mad:

If you could just politely send me your name, photo and where we will meet. :mad: ;) :D

[Spur]

Just got in from night out drowning my sorrows.

We played terrible. Defence was shocking, only Kaboul (who played very well) looked professional worthy.

The midfield is clearly shite. Jenas, Tainio, Zokora all rubbish. Teemu hardly got involved at all. Steed showed why he should be playing in the middle gettting stuck in and going past people well. Huddlestone had little impact.

Why was Berbatov taken off?

Why was Bent played seemingly right wing?

Why is Stalteri and Gardner still allowed to play for us?

Why take off the one striker who can pull rabbits out of a hat in Berbatov and not bring on the one midfielder who can pull rabbits out of a hat in Huddlestone?

Robinson did well. No fault for the goal at all.

Our best passages of play were when we played long ball.

On the bright side, we kept up our abysmal away record so well done to the boys for that.

Criticism aplenty over yesterdays performance and management.

Shocking.

[Apples]

No, mate You´re a idiot! Since he came to Spurs, he spent, after Chelsea, the most for transfers. And what we get ??? A CM players playing winger positions. Spending 16.5 mil on a striker who is sitting on a bench, and not buying a natural winger which we need desperately is a IDIOTIC!!!!!!!!!!!! So, if you think Jol will bring us to Champions league, with his defensive tactic, and his ridiculous choice of starting line-up, than mate, YOU´RE a ****ING IDIOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thing is I agree Jol is absolutely clueless. All that goes through my mind is the Sevilla game last year when he played Tainio right back, Chimbonda left back - so instead of one player out of position he has two!!!!!!

JOL IS A JOKE END OFF. We could have a quality team by now but he doesn't know what to do!

[mjbmedia]

you know if the forwards dont find space, the midfield cant give it to them very easy, if the other players dont move to help the forwards make space then that exasperates the situation. Ive been saying all along lack of movement off the ball and self belief are our two bug bears and both were proven yesterday . We didnt believe in the final minutes we could win it and were pressed back time and again by the less experienced and skilled players.

Instead of Berbs off, Keane should have gone , he done nothing all game except pass back and when youve got 4 top strikers if ones having such a mare then ****ing take him off, doesnt mean drop him or hate him, just sub him.


whatever, its done and we aint gonna get them three points back now and that will cost us whether its the first game or the last game, three points dropped could mean 5th rather than 4th or even worse.


Our preseason was against teams of no hopers
,hardly good preparation for the premier league and it showed.

[Ioang]

Preseason doesnt make a difference, remember beating inter last year?

[mjbmedia]

Preseason doesnt make a difference, remember beating inter last year?
youre telling me mate it looked like we didnt even have a pre season . the point i was sort of badly making was that we struggled to play teams like St Pats and Kaiser Chiefs off the park and we conceded goals against crap teams albeit without our first team out , now if we'd struggled to play Barca or Ajax off the park pre season then fair dos but they werent there.

[choda]

you know if the forwards dont find space, the midfield cant give it to them very easy, if the other players dont move to help the forwards make space then that exasperates the situation. Ive been saying all along lack of movement off the ball and self belief are our two bug bears and both were proven yesterday . We didnt believe in the final minutes we could win it and were pressed back time and again by the less experienced and skilled players.

What are you on about?

Berbartov and Keane are two of the best in the business at finding space. Our only hope was that they would conjure a goal from nothing yesterday because the service was appalling.

Whats your answer anyway: Oh yea, Defoe, football movement's equivalent of oxygen deprivation at birth.

If you said that in the dressing room Berbatov would shrug his shoulders and think 'I'm out of this place' and Keane would want to smack you in the face.

It's so totally ****ing obvious the problem was the lack of wingers. Of course you won't have good movement with Malbranque and Tainio out wide cutting in and conjesting the space up. Nor will they attack the space out wide and stetch the play. THERE WILL BE NO SPACE TO RUN INTO!

Berbatov and Keane were finding as much space as there was available, and doing alright for the crap they were getting. You saw what Defoe did with what was available, absolutely nothing.

It's the same nonsense as last year when people blamed the strikers when they got no service. Then they got service and then they scored a lot of goals, linked fantastically and got the rep of the dangerous twosome.

[mjbmedia]

strange then how the lesser talented Sunderland forwards with the lesser talented midfield managed to find space .OK they did have more width but hey, if thats where the space is then i know thats where JD and Bent would have been positioning themsleves or at least aiming to run into.
of course youd never allow anyone to say Keane had a poor game and not leap to his defence. one poor game doesnt make him a poor player but it does make it a viable option to try some other bodies.
Im sure that if JD and Bent were started on Saturday we'd have had a bit more action upfront with the same set up for the rest of the team, we could hardly have had less, they may not have scored but at least our excitment level would have gone above dire boredom levels.

To compare JD being on there for ten minutes when we had little good possesion to Keane being on there 90 and berbs for 60ish , a big part of which we had good possesion is unsurprisingly for you yet again biased , yes Berbs and Keane are great at finding space all the more reason to be unhappy when they dont do it or even seem to try much in the areas that it will hurt.

[Gino Ginelli]

Whats your answer anyway: Oh yea, Defoe, football movement's equivalent of oxygen deprivation at birth.

Berbatov and Keane were finding as much space as there was available, and doing alright for the crap they were getting. You saw what Defoe did with what was available, absolutely nothing.

Will you please stop berating JD unnesecarily. You seem to attribute at least 10% of all blame to him. It get's a bit absurd blaming him for 10 minutes of the game when the problems, as you point out, ar not with the forwards.

Are you sure you're not a relative of Robbie Keane?

The frustrating thing is that the rest of your observations on the game are correct. The basic problem is that the midfield was arse. Steed is too attack minded to be an effective winger as he is required to cover that flank both forwards and back. That's the responsibility of the role.

As for Tainio, I maintain that last season we were at our most effective when Zokora & he played CM together. Unfortunately he is not a winger in the slightest. At no point did he look like he even wanted to move onto the flank to support give Chimbo someone to play forwards to, or cover when defending. He just ran into Jenas or the forwards space & as result he just got in the way & was completely ineffective.

Jenas put his boot in a bit but again looked completeley uninterested in the game. On several occasions when we being stretched I saw him just strolling around. His delivery from set pieces is still terrible. I just can't be arsed commenting on him any more.

Zokora was excellent. All over the place, fully committed and bossed midfield. My only complaint is that he takes an age to release the ball, so if a forward or winger runs into a good position he's liable to go unnoticed as Zokora's taking too long to simply turn around. But his powerful runs forward are going to be important this year, & he looks the business.

Defence did very well for me. Stalteri worked hard and did alright I thought. Chimbo I thought was just about outstanding playing in two positions at once for 90 mins! Kaboul looked very comfortable for me, he's an absolute giant, and made more convincing forward runs than Jenas. Gardner was alright for me, but made two comical errors which... well we know what happened. Rocha really should have started.

All I can say is get Jol on here because he's not seeing what we are. I want a more offensive positive team on tuesday. Play Berba & Bent with Keano behind them, Zokora, Taarabt & Boateng in midfield with Rocha starting ahead of Bambi if daws aint back. If he is then put Rocha at LB. C'mon Jol. We ahve the players. Use them!

[spurs61]

I really can't be bothered to comment on yet another abject and souless display save to make two or three observations.

1. we need a leader, fast.

2. we need a left winger, fast.

3. we need a cohesive central midfield unit.

Clearly the summer is not long enough to address issues which have remained unchanged for at least three seasons.

[MiloMinderbinder]

Shite performance from all bar Kaboul and Zokora, although Berbatov depite looking disinterested was still a threat.

TT and Jenas were the wrong way round, TT is the only midfield "fighter" in the squad so why would you play him anywhere other than the centre, especially in front of Jermain "Effete bastard" Jenas, how many times was he mugged for the ball by Ethuhu only to just look bemused at the lack of a freekick? Useless little faggot that boy.

One player who gets off scot free from criticism it seems to me is Chimbonda, now he may well be a very good player but he's fairly lazy and so ****ing sloppy it's untrue, he showboats all the time "look I am ze most wonderful player 'ow can I not play for Le Blues?" cos you're so busy trying to look good you end up being a liability. His failure to stay with Chopra for the goal was school boy standard defending.

The person truly to blame has to me Jol, terrible side to put out, terrible negative tactics and poor substitutions, for **** sake, Huddlestone will never be able to play succesfully in anything but 5-3-2 formation with two players to do his running for him, why take off Berbatov at all and where the hell where the attacking midfield options on the bench?

Incidentally, I noticed that through out the game Sunderland players were blocking off ours off the ball, whilst technically it is a foul which of the piss poor officials that we are cursed with will have the gumption to call it as such? None of them, so why do we not do the same thing?

If we lose like this to Sunderland I hate to think what Everton will do to us.

[choda]

Will you please stop berating JD unnesecarily. You seem to attribute at least 10% of all blame to him. It get's a bit absurd blaming him for 10 minutes of the game when the problems, as you point out, ar not with the forwards.

Are you sure you're not a relative of Robbie Keane?

The frustrating thing is that the rest of your observations on the game are correct. The basic problem is that the midfield was arse. Steed is too attack minded to be an effective winger as he is required to cover that flank both forwards and back. That's the responsibility of the role.

As for Tainio, I maintain that last season we were at our most effective when Zokora & he played CM together. Unfortunately he is not a winger in the slightest. At no point did he look like he even wanted to move onto the flank to support give Chimbo someone to play forwards to, or cover when defending. He just ran into Jenas or the forwards space & as result he just got in the way & was completely ineffective.

Jenas put his boot in a bit but again looked completeley uninterested in the game. On several occasions when we being stretched I saw him just strolling around. His delivery from set pieces is still terrible. I just can't be arsed commenting on him any more.

Zokora was excellent. All over the place, fully committed and bossed midfield. My only complaint is that he takes an age to release the ball, so if a forward or winger runs into a good position he's liable to go unnoticed as Zokora's taking too long to simply turn around. But his powerful runs forward are going to be important this year, & he looks the business.

Defence did very well for me. Stalteri worked hard and did alright I thought. Chimbo I thought was just about outstanding playing in two positions at once for 90 mins! Kaboul looked very comfortable for me, he's an absolute giant, and made more convincing forward runs than Jenas. Gardner was alright for me, but made two comical errors which... well we know what happened. Rocha really should have started.

All I can say is get Jol on here because he's not seeing what we are. I want a more offensive positive team on tuesday. Play Berba & Bent with Keano behind them, Zokora, Taarabt & Boateng in midfield with Rocha starting ahead of Bambi if daws aint back. If he is then put Rocha at LB. C'mon Jol. We ahve the players. Use them!

I was merely responding to mjb's comments on the game. His first critical assessment was three sentences berating Keane and nothing else.

Either you didn't see that and my reasons or you have half a brain.

I will always defend Keane when he gets abuse that isn't warranted. It happens for some reason and just because I know his worth (goalscorer, creative, quality movement, enthusiasm) and don't knee jerk it doesn't mean I'm a relative.

The relative thing is just a cheap shot from somebody who has nothing better to comment.

Mjb at least tried to address my comments, even if he did it it in his own unfathomable way. :D

You may notice that when mjb had a go at Berba later I defended him too, but of course that escapes some folks attention as the fact that Berba is my personal favourite. If there is bias from my camp (and there isn't) it is likely to show up for Berbatov.

Yea, they both had a 'poor' game, but either of them getting the blame for the performance is total cock. Strikers rely to a large extent on service, support and movement around them. The midfield was the problem, as you agree.

They ALL had a problem. Bent had a half an hour and didn't do any better than the other two lads up top.

Maybe Keane got more stick because he was the one shunted out of position for 30 minutes of nothing. But why is that not noted? It's wasn't his fault, he's a striker.

You can say Defoe had ten minutes and it's a fair comment, but in those ten minutes in his position you got absolutely nothing. And I know that for the other 80 it would have been similar. If Keane, Bent and Berba struggled to find space then how the hell is Defoe going to get any sniff?

Berbatov was just starting to influence the game when he is taken of for a guy who wouldn't lace his boots. If I take that out on Defoe then it is unfair, but it's not how I mean it. I've nothing personally against Defoe, but it's quite obvious he's not on the same level as the other three, with Berba being better than the other two.

Maybe we should drop Keane on Tuesday and start Bent. This is what I'm thinking, and that hardly makes me biased or a relative, does it?

For reasons of cohesion I'd probably go for Keane and Berba for now. You give them service and they will do damage. We know that, but I think in time Bent will be as good as Keano.

The midfield on the other hand has GOT to change.

[Gino Ginelli]

By christ you're tetchy. The slightest challenge to an opinion and you're off. I simply ask you to lay off the Defoe bashing in a couple of lines and that was it. Someone dare's suggest Keane had a bad game (which wasn't me by the way. I also notice that Mjbmedia didn't actually mention Robbie or any striker in particular either) and you roll out half a dozen paragraphs on the subject. I read all of your post, which was on the money, but the frequency of the Defoe blame didn't link in with the rest of your arguments. It's like you just wanted to throw the name in.

My slightly wry suggestion of a personal link to Robbie wasn't half as cheap as your suggestion that I have half a brain. That's like responding to a valid argument with "yeah but you smell."

Now i'm not going to engage in a Robbie V Defoe debate. As you initially pointed out the issue lies with midfield NOT the strikers. I'm sure Berba/Keane would have had much better games if Tainio & Steed hadn't kept running into their space, forcing them wide or deep, or if JJ had actually supported them. Defoe had as much as a chance from that sort of service as any of the other three.

Right. That's the first time I've directly responded to another poster like that and I shan't again. Just please stop taking each comment against whoever you're favourite player is so personally. That's why I joked about you being related or a mate of Keano.

Anyway, **** it, they were all shite. Whoever the line up is they need to perform.

[SurreySpur]

By christ you're tetchy. The slightest challenge to an opinion and you're off. I simply ask you to lay off the Defoe bashing in a couple of lines and that was it. Someone dare's suggest Keane had a bad game (which wasn't me by the way. I also notice that Mjbmedia didn't actually mention Robbie or any striker in particular either) and you roll out half a dozen paragraphs on the subject. I read all of your post, which was on the money, but the frequency of the Defoe blame didn't link in with the rest of your arguments. It's like you just wanted to throw the name in.

My slightly wry suggestion of a personal link to Robbie wasn't half as cheap as your suggestion that I have half a brain. That's like responding to a valid argument with "yeah but you smell."

Now i'm not going to engage in a Robbie V Defoe debate. As you initially pointed out the issue lies with midfield NOT the strikers. I'm sure Berba/Keane would have had much better games if Tainio & Steed hadn't kept running into their space, forcing them wide or deep, or if JJ had actually supported them. Defoe had as much as a chance from that sort of service as any of the other three.

Right. That's the first time I've directly responded to another poster like that and I shan't again. Just please stop taking each comment against whoever you're favourite player is so personally. That's why I joked about you being related or a mate of Keano.

Anyway, **** it, they were all shite. Whoever the line up is they need to perform.

Give it a rest smelly!!:p

[choda]

By christ you're tetchy. The slightest challenge to an opinion and you're off. I simply ask you to lay off the Defoe bashing in a couple of lines and that was it. Someone dare's suggest Keane had a bad game (which wasn't me by the way. I also notice that Mjbmedia didn't actually mention Robbie or any striker in particular either) and you roll out half a dozen paragraphs on the subject. I read all of your post, which was on the money, but the frequency of the Defoe blame didn't link in with the rest of your arguments. It's like you just wanted to throw the name in.

My slightly wry suggestion of a personal link to Robbie wasn't half as cheap as your suggestion that I have half a brain. That's like responding to a valid argument with "yeah but you smell."

Now i'm not going to engage in a Robbie V Defoe debate. As you initially pointed out the issue lies with midfield NOT the strikers. I'm sure Berba/Keane would have had much better games if Tainio & Steed hadn't kept running into their space, forcing them wide or deep, or if JJ had actually supported them. Defoe had as much as a chance from that sort of service as any of the other three.

Right. That's the first time I've directly responded to another poster like that and I shan't again. Just please stop taking each comment against whoever you're favourite player is so personally. That's why I joked about you being related or a mate of Keano.

Anyway, **** it, they were all shite. Whoever the line up is they need to perform.

Well you proved that you don't have half a brain because you didn't see the comment. He did make a comment about Robbie to begin with and nothing else.

I'm not taking it personally but your relative comment annoyed me a bit, as it was unwarranted.

I actually like you mate.

Maybe I am slightly tetchy, but that abject performance REALLY pissed me off. That what's pissing me off, not you or anyone else.

And I don't blame any of the players to be honest, I blame Jol. There are times to be critical of players but I expected exactly what we got when I saw the team.

My thinking is how can you even know if the players were bad when the line up was set up so badly. The midfield was all congested, it was almost a nothing midfield really and the strikers had no service.

[Gino Ginelli]

Give it a rest smelly!!:p

Thhpppptttt!!! :p

[Gino Ginelli]

Well you proved that you don't have half a brain because you didn't see the comment.

It has been theorised that lesser brain size would actually highten instinctual senses such as eye-sight. Therefore my lack of observational skills must suggest that I have a whole brain that functions quite well, diminishing the quality of my eye-sight.

Anyway :cool: onto the next game... joy of joys (!):o

[\jackdaw]

It has been theorised that lesser brain size would actually highten instinctual senses such as eye-sight. Therefore my lack of observational skills must suggest that I have a whole brain that functions quite well, diminishing the quality of my eye-sight.

Anyway :cool: onto the next game... joy of joys (!):o

Im as blind as fook without my glasses so does that make me super clever?

[Gino Ginelli]

Im as blind as fook without my glasses so does that make me super clever?

If you like. Might make my father-in-law feel better about himself as well!

[choda]

That would make my winky Einstein. ;)

[Gino Ginelli]

That would make my winky Einstein. ;)

Why, does that eye not work either? ;) :p

[choda]

He's no Plato I can assure you. And he's as blind as Stevie Wonder.

He'd get up for the back of a bus, :o, thus proving both theories.

And he's up before me in the morning, completely ignoring the fact that he can't get any action without me in a waking state. He's a real brain surgeon. :rolleyes:

I'm going to stop referring to my todger in the third person now.

I'm starting to sound like the vagina monologues (what the hell is that about?).

'Up before me in the morning', that must be a distant memory for some of you fellas. :D

[Gino Ginelli]

He'd get up for the back of a bus, :o, thus proving both theories.

And he's up before me in the morning, completely ignoring the fact that he can't get any action without me in a waking state. He's a real brain surgeon. :rolleyes:

You're a Billy Connolly fan aren't you?

They get up in the middle of the night as well you know, or so I'm told...

[choda]

You're a Billy Connolly fan aren't you?

They get up in the middle of the night as well you know, or so I'm told...

Certainly am buddy. But I didn't copy him word for word, there was some re-invention. ;)