everton

[singapore spur]

in a very busy transfer market this summer , and with untold amounts of speculation with most teams , is it me or have everton been very very quiet ?
i cant think of any significant signings made , or even linked , from a team that really should be trying to push on from last year . i realise there has been talks about a new ground and stuff but what are peoples views of them this season ?

[SCIFIN17YID]

From what I have read they are splashing all there cash on a new ground.

[SurreySpur]

They signed Steven Pienaar yesterday, he's the south afrcan that used to play for Ajax. I'd expect Everton to do some more business but i cant see any big money signings.

[singapore spur]

im thinking of selling their points spread again at 52 , reallyt cant see them performing as well as last year , and they do tend to alternate good and bad seasons

[SurreySpur]

im thinking of selling their points spread again at 52 , reallyt cant see them performing as well as last year , and they do tend to alternate good and bad seasons

Its a tough one to call, its difficult to know what to expect from everton. My mate is a fan and he's feeling very positive about the new season, They dont concede many goals and with Johnson up front they're always likely to nick a 1-0. I think they'll finish in the top 7.

[mjbmedia]

they did ok last season considering they had 2 or 3 top players out for a huge chunk of it . Cahill and Arteta 100% fit all season is as good as two new players , think they could do with a bit more in defence to help lescott , but hopefully not til theyve played us.

[shoot_ffs]

yer they had a disaster season when they last played uefa and i don't think they have a very strong squad, especially compared to the rebuilding going on at newcastle, villa, west ham, and maybe even city.

having said that they produce as many good young players through as anyone and they have a savvy gaffer. top 7 only.

[choda]

My prediction: ninth.

Playing extra games and european football is a big ask on your squad. Spurs are the only side to requalify for the uefa in recent years. And there are some very good coaches with some money at Newcastle, Villa, etc.

I just don't think they are good enough.

[jrio]

im thinking of selling their points spread again at 52 , reallyt cant see them performing as well as last year , and they do tend to alternate good and bad seasons

That's a reasonable bet. The stadium move won't eat up any of their funds(it's mainly being financed by the sale of Goodison and a tie-up with Tesco), but Moyes complained a few weeks ago about the inflated fees being paid for players making it more difficult for them to get the players they wanted. They're stilling trying to off-load Beattie and Vaughan is out for 3 months. Jagielka for 4m is their only purchase so far(Pienaar is on a season's loan) and it seems Moyes only has another 6m at his disposal. The extra European games will give them added pressure as they made such a dismal early exit last time.

[wayne wonder]

We should have signed Lescott he's a class player ive watched him loads of times when i went to watch wolves with my old man and when they went up and he got injured i think most prem clubs were looking at him.

[TURKISH]

We should have signed Lescott he's a class player ive watched him loads of times when i went to watch wolves with my old man and when they went up and he got injured i think most prem clubs were looking at him.

I agree i would of loved lescott what a player! I also feel they missed out on nugent i think him and johnson would of doen well togeather. They seem not to be spending the cash. I feel as a buisness they are not run as astute as us.

[jrio]

I feel as a buisness they are not run as astute as us.
I disagree with that. Johnson ran the club into the ground, something Sugar never did at Spurs despite all of his flawed managerial appointments. Everton have struggled to recover from that after Kenwright had to find the funds to buy the club. Liverpool have cast a bigger shadow over them then Arsenal have over us and the proximity of ManU doesn't help. Everton don't have the profile that Spurs have and it has hindered them in their commercial activities. If they were based in London like us they would find it easier to attract players and more lucrative deals. Johnson is their biggest buy at 8.6m, easily dwarfed by several other clubs and there's no likelihood of that figure being broken within the next few years.

[TomMcLaren]

they also don't benefit from their crappy stadium - costs them something like a £1mm a year just to get the safety certificate renewed.

[jrio]

Re: stadiums - some interesting expanded pictures of the proposed Liverpool stadium, including inside the ground looking at the Kop. http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/newstadium/

The new Kop will have 18,000 seats and the inside looks rather different from the Emirates' bowl shape. Our expansion plans would require ends about 2/3 the size of that.

[Spur]

Re: stadiums - some interesting expanded pictures of the proposed Liverpool stadium, including inside the ground looking at the Kop. http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/newstadium/

The new Kop will have 18,000 seats and the inside looks rather different from the Emirates' bowl shape. Our expansion plans would require ends about 2/3 the size of that.

Those pictures look so shabby.

I know plenty of people that LFC should have gone to to get better pictures than those, the quality is just poor.

[wayne wonder]

I agree i would of loved lescott what a player! I also feel they missed out on nugent i think him and johnson would of doen well togeather. They seem not to be spending the cash. I feel as a buisness they are not run as astute as us.

He'a quality mate! Dunno bout Nugent though as the 2 kids they have upfront are gonna be quality if they stay fit and progress how they have been.

[TURKISH]

Wayne i feel nugent could be a good striker for them and a good link up play. But your right there two young lads up front should become good players for them.

Jrio i feel that everton over the years when they ql for europe they don't seem to spend or spend on good players. The last two years they have, they have started buying good young players, i just feel in buying and selling they are not up to our speed. I see potential in the club fan base wise, europe and players. Considering they have QL for euro a few times in last 5 years and the rooney sell they havent really invested well or enough.

I understand your point on kenwright his done his best with what he's got and the fact that liverpool are so dominent, but that didn't stop arsenal when we were so good all them years back. I just feel we as an example if you buy the right players for the right price you can have a successful team in a few years.

But it seems that deep down through the board maybe they just don't want to invest and risk being a leeds?

[TomMcLaren]

Re: stadiums - some interesting expanded pictures of the proposed Liverpool stadium, including inside the ground looking at the Kop. http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/newstadium/

The new Kop will have 18,000 seats and the inside looks rather different from the Emirates' bowl shape. Our expansion plans would require ends about 2/3 the size of that.

IMO that looks dreadful, so square and so many right angles, looks like an 80's throw back. And that concrete carbuncle on the "Kop" end, with a million rows back - f*cking dreadful.

It looks fat and squat, look a scouse hooker, no style or grace to it at all. Awful. Very American. If we get something like that at the lane I will be so disappointed.

[Chaydle]

I can't see a problem with their stadium, looks great to me. It makes a nice change to the standard stadiums that have been churned out recently

[Gino Ginelli]

It looks absurd... so there! :p

[SurreySpur]

I can't see a problem with their stadium, looks great to me. It makes a nice change to the standard stadiums that have been churned out recently

Yeah i agree Chaydle, I think its refreshing to see a stadium that has a completely different feel to it rather than all these identical new stadiums that have been built recently. Although t'll be interesting to see whether the finished stadium looks anything like the plans.

[jrio]

I understand your point on kenwright his done his best with what he's got and the fact that liverpool are so dominent, but that didn't stop arsenal when we were so good all them years back. I just feel we as an example if you buy the right players for the right price you can have a successful team in a few years.

But it seems that deep down through the board maybe they just don't want to invest and risk being a leeds?
The goalposts have been moved greatly from that time in the 80s when Spurs and Everton were in the top 5, particularly with wages for top players. Arsenal never fell to the level that Everton did, avoiding relegation twice on the last day of the season, memorably being 2-0 down to Wimbledon in one before winning 3-2. When Wenger took over they'd finished 5th the previous season. Spurs have wheeled and dealed and taken advantage of the fact that a lot of foreign players want to be based in London. Try listing all the players that have come and gone in quick succession. Moyes' record is fairly average - for every high-priced flop like Beattie and Kroldrup he's bought players like Cahill and Arteta cheaply.

I think Everton had 20m of debt when Rooney was sold, City were near 70m when they sold SWP for 21m, Leeds at over 90m when they collapsed. Everton have also had to consider plans for moving ground, a further financial constraint. Spurs have shrewdly taken advantage of others' financial misfortunes(Robbo, Lennon, Kanoute, Carrick and Defoe) and with the latter 3 geography came into it. Everton could have spent a further 30m on players and finished no higher than they have under Moyes.

[Spur]

Tommy Mac you said it, Very American.

[jrio]

IMO that looks dreadful, so square and so many right angles, looks like an 80's throw back. And that concrete carbuncle on the "Kop" end, with a million rows back - f*cking dreadful.

It looks fat and squat, look a scouse hooker, no style or grace to it at all. Awful. Very American. If we get something like that at the lane I will be so disappointed.

Yes, I thought it looked very American and it was a designer they've used over there that modified the design. It doesn't have any elegance and the buttressing of the Kop is made necessary by the capacity and steepness of the stand. There seems to be a determination to match up to United's capacity as it can be extended to seat 75,000.

[highlander]

i cant for the life of me see why they spent £4million on Phil Jagielka who is an average utility man at best when they have Phil Neville who is far better. what a waste of money

[mjbmedia]

daft scousers should have ground shared and had a fabulous huge stadium between them instead of two that will be deemed fairly average in a few years time.

People will say you cant share with your rivals, Lazio and ROma, Juve and Torino , the Milan duo prove otherwise , for one season the fans my hate it but then once used to it its great.

[SurreySpur]

daft scousers should have ground shared and had a fabulous huge stadium between them instead of two that will be deemed fairly average in a few years time.

People will say you cant share with your rivals, Lazio and ROma, Juve and Torino , the Milan duo prove otherwise , for one season the fans my hate it but then once used to it its great.

Oe of the big problems with ground sharing is the pitch quality deteriorates far quicker, what with the pitch being in use every 3 or 4 days for 9months.

[TomMcLaren]

daft scousers should have ground shared and had a fabulous huge stadium between them instead of two that will be deemed fairly average in a few years time.

People will say you cant share with your rivals, Lazio and Roma, Juve and Torino , the Milan duo prove otherwise , for one season the fans my hate it but then once used to it its great.

Would you have us share with Arsenal? The thing with the Italian grounds is that the council owns them, so there is less "our ground" feeling and history. I've been to the Stadio Olimplico to see Lazio, and there was no real feeling of being at a specific club's ground, apart from the fans in sky blue scarves.

[TomMcLaren]

Yeah i agree Chaydle, I think its refreshing to see a stadium that has a completely different feel to it rather than all these identical new stadiums that have been built recently. Although t'll be interesting to see whether the finished stadium looks anything like the plans.

Ugh. I hope they do build it, because it would be nice to say that the PL can lay claim to the ugliest top flight ground in Europe.

In addition, how much wasted space is there in that design? Would love to see some kind of "energy efficiency" stats vs. other new stadiums.

Actually, I've just worked out what they're doing there - they want a "distinct" Kop, keeping the "big end" feel, so they have no tiers and don't link it in to the other stands. Interesting idea, but the implementation is a bag of shite IMO.

[choda]

..... 'SACCER!' :p

[jrio]

Actually, I've just worked out what they're doing there - they want a "distinct" Kop, keeping the "big end" feel, so they have no tiers and don't link it in to the other stands. Interesting idea, but the implementation is a bag of shite IMO.
Do you think that's been done to get the fans backing it? What do you think of Everton's, Tom. http://www.evertonfc.com/club/stadium-gallery.html

I think it looks rather smart and much more like a proper football stadium than Liverpool's. The more I think about it, the more Liverpool's seems like a monstrosity.

[Spur]

Do you think that's been done to get the fans backing it? What do you think of Everton's, Tom. http://www.evertonfc.com/club/stadium-gallery.html

I think it looks rather smart and much more like a proper football stadium than Liverpool's. The more I think about it, the more Liverpool's seems like a monstrosity.

Now that's a nice stadium. I'd be proud of that stadium if it didn't have TESCO written across it!

And the pictures look almost real. I reckon the Liverpool one is a fake, someone put it on their website to make them look silly!

[jrio]

Now that's a nice stadium. I'd be proud of that stadium if it didn't have TESCO written across it!

And the pictures look almost real. I reckon the Liverpool one is a fake, someone put it on their website to make them look silly!

Yeah, that's what I thought but a guy on SO thought "Really? I think that's just as pedestrian, uninspired and architecturally b-o-r-i-n-g as the Liverpool proposal. Worse, actually." Seems his idea of a modern football stadium is the Allianz Arena because it's " Daring. Distinctive. Unique." Still, he works in housing and seems to have a passion for architecture, which explains it.

[singapore spur]

i would agree the liverpool stadium looks shite , for me all grounds that have gaps at the corners look a bit unfinished , but the idea of keeping the kop as a whole unsegregated bank i think is a good idea , and should keep what can be an intimidating atmosphere and a good vocal hardcore . yes it looks like some of the terracing of old , but so what ?i would love to be able to recapture the old shelf atmosphere with somethng similar, imagine taking a penalty in front of that .

i would have thought there would be some safety issues with that desgn though and lack of exits

[TomMcLaren]

Yeah, that's what I thought but a guy on SO thought "Really? I think that's just as pedestrian, uninspired and architecturally b-o-r-i-n-g as the Liverpool proposal. Worse, actually." Seems his idea of a modern football stadium is the Allianz Arena because it's " Daring. Distinctive. Unique." Still, he works in housing and seems to have a passion for architecture, which explains it.

I'm not sure, the roof line is very beautifully done, and the open areas under the stands are very nice, but there's something not quite right about it. Better than 'pools though. My friend (who's a toffee) described it as the "Tesco Value Option"... :D

And the alliance arena is pretty special...
http://www.sportsvenue-technology.com/projects/allianz/allianz1.html

[jrio]

My friend (who's a toffee) described it as the "Tesco Value Option"... :D
It's a bit better than that, but not "Tesco's Finest". It could cost Everton as little as 10m after selling Goodison. They intend to sell the naming rights and I see Liverpool have similar intentions for around 100m.

I see the construction cost of the Allianz was only 175m for a 66,000 capacity. That seems very cheap in comparison to English stadia.

[TomMcLaren]

Just got this response from my mate - think it may be a typical (depressing) response.

Sadly they will be build their stadium on a park in the middle of liverpool... we will build ours on valueless land in some crappy village outside of liverpool. Totally against the move... we will lose future generations of support but then, we cant afford our own stadium so what choice do we have.....

[jrio]

Just got this response from my mate - think it may be a typical (depressing) response.
And he's called my mate. What's your handle - his mate?

The economics are totally against Everton. Liverpool are investing 300m in their new stadium and there doesn't seem to be an appropriate site in the city where Everton could relocate. Self-funding would see them with a stadium without any players worth watching. Would he have preferred sharing with them than moving to Kirkby? It's a very difficult choice for the club, but staying at Goodison will see them on a slow path of deterioration whilst the Kirkby move could mean a significant loss of support.

[TomMcLaren]

And he's called my mate. What's your handle - his mate?

The economics are totally against Everton. Liverpool are investing 300m in their new stadium and there doesn't seem to be an appropriate site in the city where Everton could relocate. Self-funding would see them with a stadium without any players worth watching. Would he have preferred sharing with them than moving to Kirkby? It's a very difficult choice for the club, but staying at Goodison will see them on a slow path of deterioration whilst the Kirkby move could mean a significant loss of support.

Catch 22 really.