This pretty much sums up my feelings

[Shuggie13]

From a match report this morning.......

Even after being gifted a goal before many spectators had found their seats, Spurs were surprisingly hopeless and never looked like matching United's commitment, let alone getting back into the game once they went behind. There was no Aaron Lennon, but that's not really an excuse for impersonating England.

[hastingsyid]

yep that about says it all

[Ioang]

yeah thats the shizzle. I kinda wasn't born into yidmanship - it was more of a subtle choice over the last few years. Hooked now, ready to deal with the bad cos if you can't do that you don't have any right to enjoy the good really.

[Ginola's Son]

Spurs were surprisingly hopeless

Not very accurate, how many of us were actually surprised?

[peterc]

Not very accurate, how many of us were actually surprised?

You couldn't have described it better, there are serious problems that need immediate action, the longer it takes the worse it will get. Hope Jol will sort out this rot once and for all.

[JuicE]

Not very accurate, how many of us were actually surprised?

I'll be surprised when we actually win a ****ing game and keep a clean sheet! :eek:

[RuFuS]

Spurs site 03:00 12/2/07

Sorry!
Sorry, we are currently upgrading the Tottenham Hotspur site to enhance our fan experience!

They should start with the team 1st :p

[Ginola's Son]

The site should say

'Sorry, we are closing down cos we don't wanna depress you anymore with pointless talk about ****ing training sessions or the reserves cos thats all we've got to ****ing crow about at the mo'

[neilmcnab]

what jol wants to do is to sit them so called players in front of some computers and let them read out loud the comments posted about them and discuss their points and credibility, let them no what many supporters are saying, even tho they must hear from the support at the ground, but they shud hear what we think when the game is over and its just a normal day, mayb then theyll wear the shirt with some pride, because i cant beleive thay are getting bolloxd, and kickd up the backside. as from the 1st kick of the season till now i cant see any improvement in the teams performances, look at arse last nite, 1-0 down for long period, but stil you know they are gonna win they dont give up subs come on and make a diff, thay have a method, thay start who ever is deserved of a start, hence the players on bench , wanna prove themselves to manager, and they are foreign, and for many its their 1st season, just like many of our players...

[Shuggie13]

The scum had a huge help yesterday with their 12th man - the ref.

Point taken though they have scrapped their way to results this season which kind of puts into perspective the difference between our two transitionary sides.

[Ginola's Son]

Don't bring the Gooners into it. They play like utter shit, 1-0 down, you just know fortune will give the ****s what they ****ing well want cos they ALWAYS GET THEIR WAY. They are the only team in the league that don't get punishment for playing shit.

Us on the other hand

[Shuggie13]

Don't bring the Gooners into it. They play like utter shit, 1-0 down, you just know fortune will give the ****s what they ****ing well want cos they ALWAYS GET THEIR WAY. They are the only team in the league that don't get punishment for playing shit.

Us on the other hand

I think the point is, forgetting what we may at times see as unbelievable luck, at least they put the effort in. Surely that is our main gripe with the players at the moment.

[Ginola's Son]

No, no. I will admit it otherwise. But too many times they have NICKED, STOLEN, ROBBED a game that they haven't deserved. I wouldnt want to be a team that did that constantly, I'd want to deserve to win.

[neilmcnab]

thats why we are seen as fickle man, they played to win they attacked.. credit is due, we on the other hand played 4 attackers and while they were on created no,NO, chances, ok, work that 1 out, nothing to do with luck, that my dear frtiend is what you call tactics, and technical ability,work the ball up the field then out to wide position, cross to dangerous 6yd box AND aMIDFIELD PLAYER BURST A GUT TO GET HIMSELF INTO THE BOX...AND HIS HEAD ON THE BALL,unlike our brilliant midfield. who think gettin into the box is it, these teams actually score, and WIN. AHH REALITY...not dream land like us.

[neilmcnab]

to improve our team we must be honest and adress all our failing.lets face it a lot of teams in prem cud beat our puffta lot with a weaken team , or even 9-10 men. we carry to many weak, not upto scratch players

[RuFuS]

But too many times they have NICKED, STOLEN, ROBBED a game that they haven't deserved.

They aint called lucky Arsen*! for nothing !!!! for donkeys years even pre GG they would soak up pressure and then get a goal in the last minite.
It aint nice. It aint pretty but it gets results.
Then add a couple of class players like Henry,Brady (yadah,yadah, yadah) that can actually turn games and you win trophies

[spurs61]

to improve our team we must be honest and adress all our failing.lets face it a lot of teams in prem cud beat our puffta lot with a weaken team , or even 9-10 men. we carry to many weak, not upto scratch players

FFS, when will you people realise that it's got very little to do with the players. Do you think they have all become top flight professional footballers by spending their careers ducking responsibility and shirking from a fight? Do you think that professional footballers play this badly week in and week out becase they're poor players? Do you think they stick with inept and negative tactics because that's how they think the game should be played? Admittedly there are one or two who are patently not good enough at this level (Zokora, BAE, Lee) but the rest of them are proven internationals who have spent their entire career in top flight leagues, by and large, they know how to do their jobs and what it takes to win. Their manager, on the other hand, has spent his entire career playing for shitty little clubs like WBA and ADO Den Haag (failed miserably at Munich and cast out after one season) and coaching clubs considered less than second class in the fourth rate Dutch league. And people still think that it's the players who aren't up to scratch

[Spur]

FFS, when will you people realise that it's got very little to do with the players.

I'm only going to use one exampole here.

So your saying Paul Robinson deserves to be in the team of the year?

[spurs61]

I'm only going to use one exampole here.

So your saying Paul Robinson deserves to be in the team of the year?

That's a usless argument. Robinson's form is cerainly not good enough but he is not the root cause of the problem. He has no protection from his midfield and can only rely on Dawson to shackle the opponents forward line. But, Robbo is not a party to the tactics, his role in the team does not alter from one game to the next, he's a goalkeeper and does not generally affect the performance of the rest of the team. Yes he deserves to be dropped but he is a victim of the poor performances and lack of desire to win, and the same applies to his England position.

Rather than pick out individual examples, why don't you address my previous post and explain how this is the players fault rather than the manager? Do you really think that all of the players are lazy and not giving their all, everyone of them? Or could it possibly be down to the instructions they are given week in and week out? Do you think professional footballers don't know when to go for the kill and when to sit back and soak up pressure? Or could it posibly be due to a manger who has spend his entire career playing and coaching negative and risk-free football mainly at small clubs in the bottom reaches of the table?

[Spur]

Do you really think that all of the players are lazy and not giving their all, everyone of them?

Do you think they are giving their all? How many players can you say have been upto scratch this year? And i'm going to continue just picking out players randomly. Do you think Murphy and Ghaly are good enough. Do you think Lee or Benny is good enough? How was Calum for you? ALl these players good enough to be keeping us up with the top four are they? That's only talking about ability not even getting onto form.

By naming Robinson I was merely pointing out form. But your right, your argument wouldn't stretch to him except for the big kicks down field.

Or could it possibly be down to the instructions they are given week in and week out? Or could it posibly be due to a manger who has spend his entire career playing and coaching negative and risk-free football mainly at small clubs in the bottom reaches of the table?

Again, by saying that your questioning common sense of the highest order. It's something that you can say for ten years about him and I still won't believe it. Not whilst he comes out to the press every week and says exactly the same as we say on here, if he came out and blmaed the ref or whatever then I would start saying he hasn't a clue, but whilst the players are letting him down and whilst he knows it i'm not going to question him.

We have seen some good football this season despite what you will say. We also saw some excellent football last year. Not negative stuff in my opinion. I feel the negative football approach some have is down to the long balls that Dawson, Robinson play. But I ask you now, in a game of football, which is more important - the first ball or the second ball?

[spurs61]

When Jol comes out and says "I got the tactics and set up of the side totally wrong, I will learn from this." Then I will have more time for him but he's passing responsibility onto the players. At no point has Jol taken responsibility for the poor run of results, which is his job. Part of his job is defend the players whilst privately pointing out any failings, his job is not to say "well we're without Lennon and Jenas and Tainio and as a result the rest of the team is not good enough" which is effectivley what he said last week.

You may think the football we play is attractive and exciting but I know better, ask any ticket holder what they think of the crap served up most weeks and you will by and large gat the same answer I give. Your comments about Robbo and Daws punting long balls have aided my argument, thank you! Do you not think that if Jol was not happy with Robbo and Daws whaking the ball up he would have prevented them from doing it? They are acting under direct instructions from Jol. Remember how every other ball was played long to Mido last season, we're doing the same thing this season except we are using Berbatov who is not half as good as Mido aerially speaking.

Of all the players you mentioned as not being good enough (I disagree about Ghaly) every one of them was signed by Jol, so thanks another argument in my favour and against Jol. None of those players are good enough and had no business wearing a Spurs shirt, Martin Jol thought they were the solution, what does that say about his judgemet? The fact that the majority of players have under performed this season is not a coincidence. These guys do not all play badly all of the time unless they are not motivated and/or lack belief in their managers tactics otherwise they would not be professional footballers in the top flight.

[Spur]

Out of those I mentioned only Lee and Ghaly are Jol's buys IMO. After those you still have Teemu, Zokora, Stalteri - they're all shit at the moment. None of those were brought in by Jol.

Did I say the football was attractive? I do believe I said at times the football was good, excellent even. And it is. That's undeniable. Sadly not much of it this season though.

I'm giving you the long ball bit, that's a given. It's not something anyone likes to see but sometimes it has to be done (especially with our midfield unable to pass to anyone in white no?). With the players around the people up front we have enough about us to win a second ball every now and then. Jenas, Defoe, Keane, Berba, Lennon, Steed, Ghaly - you'd expect at least one of those to get the ball when it's not in the air but they still don't.

It's obvious the fans are divided. Jol or the players. I hope people will look at the players and blame them, otherwise we are just as bad - if not worse - than every other set of fans in the country. It's sad that despite 20 years of firing managers after 6 games the fans still want the Club to do it. Embarrassing even.

What more can be said though? At the end of it I look at the players doing sweet **** all and blame them. Others do too, that's why headlines about bite and gutless displays ring true after every match on the fans sites. But so do articles on the ineptness of Jol - magically appearing after 2 months of bad results but magically disappearing for the previous two seasons. Those are from the people that see the players doing sweet **** all but blame the bald one gritting his teeth in despair at yet another misplaced pass or shot wide from ten yards out.

But always one to look for a laugh, you know what the funny thing is for me - if only we'd taken all our chances, no-one would even be complaining :D How comical.

[spurs61]

Out of those I mentioned only Lee and Ghaly are Jol's buys IMO. After those you still have Teemu, Zokora, Stalteri - they're all shit at the moment. None of those were brought in by Jol.

Did I say the football was attractive? I do believe I said at times the football was good, excellent even. And it is. That's undeniable. Sadly not much of it this season though.

I'm giving you the long ball bit, that's a given. It's not something anyone likes to see but sometimes it has to be done (especially with our midfield unable to pass to anyone in white no?). With the players around the people up front we have enough about us to win a second ball every now and then. Jenas, Defoe, Keane, Berba, Lennon, Steed, Ghaly - you'd expect at least one of those to get the ball when it's not in the air but they still don't.

It's obvious the fans are divided. Jol or the players. I hope people will look at the players and blame them, otherwise we are just as bad - if not worse - than every other set of fans in the country. It's sad that despite 20 years of firing managers after 6 games the fans still want the Club to do it. Embarrassing even.

What more can be said though? At the end of it I look at the players doing sweet **** all and blame them. Others do too, that's why headlines about bite and gutless displays ring true after every match on the fans sites. But so do articles on the ineptness of Jol - magically appearing after 2 months of bad results but magically disappearing for the previous two seasons. Those are from the people that see the players doing sweet **** all but blame the bald one gritting his teeth in despair at yet another misplaced pass or shot wide from ten yards out.

But always one to look for a laugh, you know what the funny thing is for me - if only we'd taken all our chances, no-one would even be complaining :D How comical.

I'm enjoying this. I wonder if other clubs' fans have these sort of conversations whilst still respecting each others opinions and refraining from personal insults (you muppet!!!;) ) , I suspect not!

[Spur]

I'm enjoying this. I wonder if other clubs' fans have these sort of conversations whilst still respecting each others opinions and refraining from personal insults (you muppet!!!;) ) , I suspect not!

I feel certain other club's fans would struggle to put a paragraph or two together.

Just out of interest, and this goes out to everyone in the world, which other clubs do you respect the most? We're talking in the PL for the times being, and you may not like them at all but which teams / clubs do you respect the most?

[spurs61]

Manchester City, I've got a lot of time for them. Like us they are genuine, long suffering supporters who appreciate and demand good football. They also appreciate other sides as well. I've got some time for 'Boro as well, simply for thier enterprising approach to the game. How they manage to attract playuers like Ravenelli, Juniniho, Mendieta etc really is a masterstroke of persuasion.

[Spur]

Manchester City, I've got a lot of time for them. Like us they are genuine, long suffering supporters who appreciate and demand good football. They also appreciate other sides as well. I've got some time for 'Boro as well, simply for thier enterprising approach to the game. How they manage to attract playuers like Ravenelli, Juniniho, Mendieta etc really is a masterstroke of persuasion.

I would say Man City as well. Not sure why, maybe it's because they are long suffering like you say, living in the shadow of their neighbours. And probably because of the loyal fans.

[Milney yid]

I'd agree with Man City and I'd also say Man U, due to their attacking style and brilliant, creative players they've had over the years. The only team in the top 4 I don't hate.