Match Thread: Ars*nal vs Tottenham Hotspur

[Neil_Vaughan]

Talk about the game in here before, during and after.

[Spur]

I hate these bastards.

BOOOOOO!!!

I don't think I can watch...!?!

[Chewy]

Bad News - No king and no berbatov. Martin Jol is waiting on an assessment on Mido to see if he will be fit for it after the southend game. Van Persie and Baptista are now injured so Henry will be starting.

Good news is - Jenas is back(good news to me anyway) and Lennon should be well up for this after all the appraisal he recieved after the Southend game.

I'm trying to be optimistic for this game but it is quite difficult. I think the only thing we have going for us is the players know they let us down in the first leg and know they'll have to just go at them. Hopefully Martin will get them up for this one! I'll be watching and by the end of it i'll either be getting drunk with celebrating or getting drunk to drown my sorrows!

C'mon you ****ing spurs lets beat the ****ing scum!

[JuicE]

Let's just turn up late, that should unsettle them! :rolleyes:

[hastingsyid]

Ill be there cheering the boys,we must believe in ourselves then we can and will beat these ****s,dont think my heart can take much more but as long as we win then who cares.......COYS

[Gino Ginelli]

Worried about our attacking threat without Berbatov, but Mido can put himself about and throw himself at those low Lennon crosses. Let's just hope he takes his chance the way Defoe did when Robbie was out and doesn't have a sulk on.

No King is a big blow too, but Rocha looks like a very good blood n guts type defender. Hopefully he'll be up for handling Henry the way he handled Ronaldinho last season.

We're also going to have to rely on Lennon being awesome again, here's hoping he's got the energy to keep it going.

[MaccYid]

Who knows what will happen, I hope that we put in a big performance. Blood & thunder.

The tie is not dead yet but has been extremely difficult with the lose of berbatov. Time for everyone to stand up and be counted. WE CAN STILL DO THIS!!!

[Shuggie13]

Before the season I was calling for Nolan's signing. Yesterday, once agan he did the business against the Scum. Maybe we can just get Big Sam the Dodgy Bung Man to coach the team on Wednesday.

[Ginola's Son]

Henry!!

We're ****ED!!

We were anyway. I'm not sure I can watch either. Just too much for lil old me.

[Ioang]

Nah, not ****ed mate.

A defence of chimbonda, rocha, daws and (whoever) we can have general faith in - much better than if gardner played anyway. Robbo's robbo, make with that what you will.

our midfield'll be fine as long as they play like their lives depended on it - Jenas is back and he always looks forward, and it looks like Zokora's finally remembered how to do those amazing forward surges. Lennon'll have another masterpiece and Malbranque'll get on their nerves immensely - he knows exactly how much pressure you can put players under without conceding the foul. Hell, maybe we can even get one of them sent off, what would you think of our chances then? We have four very decent strikers (we KNOW mido has the skill, remember last season?) so i'm not worrying about that.

I'll leave stuff about the manager unsaid. As long as he realises 0-1 is nowhere near enough.

[Ginola's Son]

Wow. Talk about optimism. I think you are kidding yourself about Mido. The guy has gone to pot.

[Gino Ginelli]

The Arse are always beatable if teams really get in amongst them and piss them off. If Mido is one thing, he's probably very good a pissing people off! Not sure Zokora and Jenas are though... would rather Hudd than Zokora.

[Ginola's Son]

But...they aren't beaten yet at home.

That's the killer. I can't see them surrendering their record at home to us! Not us!

We'll have to be three, four times the team we are to do em over.

[choda]

The Arse are always beatable if teams really get in amongst them and piss them off. If Mido is one thing, he's probably very good a pissing people off! Not sure Zokora and Jenas are though... would rather Hudd than Zokora.

I actually think Zokora Jenas is the midfield for this one. We need to be really mobile and really get stuck in. I love hudd and think he will be awesome, but I'd leave him out for some games, this being one.

If we can get into them, and play as well we can win. A few nasty tackles wouldn't go amiss too. We just need to keep working and playing football for ninety minutes this time.

[SurreySpur]

Im going for a 2-1 win to Spurs. I genuinly believe we can go there and get a result. Stick JJ in the centre with Hudd and play mido up front with Defoe. If we get in their faces from the first whistle and bully them in midfield we'll shit on em. Malbranque and Lennon will have to work their socks off tracking the fullbacks which they are more than capable of doing.

Were only 90mins from another Season in Europe so lets go all out to get it, this will turn out to be one of the greatest glory glory nights for the MIGHTY SPURS!!!!

[Gino Ginelli]

Best have three Shredded Wheat each on Wednesday morning then... :)

[spurs61]

I actually think Zokora Jenas is the midfield for this one. We need to be really mobile and really get stuck in. I love hudd and think he will be awesome, but I'd leave him out for some games, this being one.

If we can get into them, and play as well we can win. A few nasty tackles wouldn't go amiss too. We just need to keep working and playing football for ninety minutes this time.


Spot on there choda, we've already seen that the Hudd is too immobile to have any effect on the goons game. A central axis of Zokora and Jenas should be physical enough to knock them out of their stride and can cover all areas of the pitch. This one is all about the result, I don't care how we get it for once, in fact an ugly win may be just the tonic we all need.

[MaccYid]

Im going for a 2-1 win to Spurs. I genuinly believe we can go there and get a result. Stick JJ in the centre with Hudd and play mido up front with Defoe. If we get in their faces from the first whistle and bully them in midfield we'll shit on em. Malbranque and Lennon will have to work their socks off tracking the fullbacks which they are more than capable of doing.

Were only 90mins from another Season in Europe so lets go all out to get it, this will turn out to be one of the greatest glory glory nights for the MIGHTY SPURS!!!!

Good Lad Surrey, thats the sort of talk i like to hear!!!

[spurs61]

Were only 90mins from another Season in Europe so lets go all out to get it, this will turn out to be one of the greatest glory glory nights for the MIGHTY SPURS!!!!

I was under the impression that we need to win the final to qualify?! As far as I'm aware if we get to the final and Chelsea win, the European placing is handed down the league. Otherwise Wigan would have qualified last season?!

[SurreySpur]

I was under the impression that we need to win the final to qualify?! As far as I'm aware if we get to the final and Chelsea win, the European placing is handed down the league. Otherwise Wigan would have qualified last season?!

To be honest thats what i thought prior to the first leg before i heard on BBC London and on sky sports news during the build up to the game that a final place would give us a Euro spot.

[matthius23]

Where's everyone (thats not going to the Haemmerhoids Stadium) watching the game? Was gonna venture to a pub near the 'Lane.

[spurs61]

Where's everyone (thats not going to the Haemmerhoids Stadium) watching the game? Was gonna venture to a pub near the 'Lane.

From behind the sofa!!! With a paper bag over my head! Whilst taking Valium. And smoking copious quanities of the stinkiest stuff I can get my hands on. Thanks for asking! :p ;) :o

[JJ]

Gonna miss it sadly. Will be on a plane to Amsterdam.

So if the result is a bad one, at least i'll be in the right place to drown my sorrows.

[spurs61]

Gonna miss it sadly. Will be on a plane to Amsterdam.

I'll happily trade places with you! Know where I'd rather be.

[JJ]

I'll happily trade places with you! Know where I'd rather be.

Nah, that's alright ;)

A 3 day binge will be a fitting celebration/period of mourning.

[Welsh Spur]

Amsterdam! I could live there! If only....

Anyways, my thoughts on this one.....

Its gonna be a massive ask to beat them at the meirates, but I can see it being AET or on pens, coz that don't count for them as a proper 90minute loss does it, and plus we've every chance if they stick to this young team coz lets face it, our team is better, they just need to bloody well show it! I'm not gonna be hopeful of a win coz I was last time out and was incredibly disappointed after the game, so I'm just gonna watch unexpectantly and support the lads.

Anyways, I'd go for....

Robbo, Chimbo, Rocha, Dawson, Lee, Lennon, Jenas, Zokora, Malbranque, Mido and Keane.

Subs: Cerny, Defoe, Murphy, Huddlestone, Gardner

[SurreySpur]

Amsterdam! I could live there! If only....

Anyways, my thoughts on this one.....

Its gonna be a massive ask to beat them at the meirates, but I can see it being AET or on pens, coz that don't count for them as a proper 90minute loss does it, and plus we've every chance if they stick to this young team coz lets face it, our team is better, they just need to bloody well show it! I'm not gonna be hopeful of a win coz I was last time out and was incredibly disappointed after the game, so I'm just gonna watch unexpectantly and support the lads.

Anyways, I'd go for....

Robbo, Chimbo, Rocha, Dawson, Lee, Lennon, Jenas, Zokora, Malbranque, Mido and Keane.

Subs: Cerny, Defoe, Murphy, Huddlestone, Gardner

Yeah i agree with that line-up although i would probably go for Defoe up front with Mido.

[jrio]

SSN just confirmed Berb out of the game so that's the end of any lingering hopes. I would expect Mido to replace him, putting the end to any speculation about a move to City. Unless MJ has a tactical masterplan that has not previously seen the light of day.

[Gino Ginelli]

Such as offering his players a shmoke and a pancake before kickoff?

[Ginola's Son]

I'm weeping now.

The thought of Mido being relied upon to bring us glory against THEM.

Please people, don't take leave of your senses. Mido is not the man he once was.

WOE!

[spurs61]

To be fair to Mido, he's hardly had a good crack of the whip this season; his tiggling injuries have meant that he has not been able to perform to the best of his ability. Whilst I would agree that he's not ever going to be first choice with Berbatov around, he is a good back up and given a few games (and fitness) you'd see why we worked so hard to re-sign him. I also think he's the kind of striker who the top teams find hard to handle when he's on his game.

[Spur]

Yea I would rather Mido and Keane I think for this one. But i'm not too fussed out of Keane and Defoe TBH.

[spurs61]

It's gotta be Defoe, Mido and Keane provide no pace at all.

[Ginola's Son]

I'd still start the two littluns, and play the ball on the floor.

[Spur2003s]

He's gotta start with defoe and mido ... we need to be in their scummy faces and pissing people off , zokora needs to get physical on players like fabregas...although he is a genius he is also a sulky little prick when pushed around a bit:mad: cmon you spurs just this once don't make me feel like putting my head through the tv after watching a great game that we lose

[Spur2003s]

He's gotta start with defoe and mido ... we need to be in their scummy faces and pissing people off , zokora needs to get physical on players like fabregas...although he is a genius he is also a sulky little prick when pushed around a bit:mad: cmon you spurs just this once don't make me feel like putting my head through the tv after watching a great game that we lose

[sundancer]

We can win becuse we are better then the team they played in the first leg and if he picks the same team again we will win, Mido and Defoe up front and Zokora and Jenas in M.F.and this time if we keep at them will do it.

[RuFuS]

But...they aren't beaten yet at home.
YET=EVENTUALY

[spurs61]

And eventually = not when we're playing them! Like the optimism though!

[JJ]

And eventually = not when we're playing them! Like the optimism though!

And the font size.

Excellent.

[nuttyhotspurs]

We'll have to be three, four times the team we are to do em over.

i know the arse are favourites for this one but thats just a ****ing stupid thing to say. come on dude own up u are a scum fan.

[Ginola's Son]

**** off.

Why is it only me that gets that. Other people can admit we are outclassed by them and avoid the dreaded 'closet gooner' accusals. But not me. Go suck off Laspur and leave the real Spurs fans like me alone.

I bloody went to spurs on ****ing saturday. North Lower, Gangway 20, Row 5, Seats 102 and 103. Went with my dad, who incidentally is also not a ****ing Arsenal fan.

So, back to the points in hand, we will need to step up a gear by THREE or FOUR fold in order to pull of this near-impossible task. And it's even harder given that Karma and general rub-of-the-green generally goes against us. It's basically us against the world.

[jrio]

We only need to draw in normal time to take the game to ET which we could then win on away goals or by a single goal. Arsenal have a number of injuries and young players that are feeling mental fatigue. It's up to Spurs to press and harry them so they can't easily produce their flowing football. Easily said than done but plenty of sides have done it and got draws there. Scoring the first goal will make a difference. Without Berb and King it's something of an uphill task and the reward isn't particularly enticing. Remember, Wigan got through with a late equaliser last season at Highbury and then got annhilated in the final 4-0 by ManU.

[singapore spur]

this is where jol has to earn his money , if we go out with the right mental attitude we can win it .
if we go out thinking we are second best or already beaten then we will loose no doubt .

[choda]

Spot on there choda, we've already seen that the Hudd is too immobile to have any effect on the goons game. A central axis of Zokora and Jenas should be physical enough to knock them out of their stride and can cover all areas of the pitch. This one is all about the result, I don't care how we get it for once, in fact an ugly win may be just the tonic we all need.

Jol has talked about the need to develop the Hudd's mobility when he hasn't got the ball. I agree. I think this is the last major development he needs to become an awesome footballer.

[Gino Ginelli]

SSN this morning suggested that Wenger will rest Henry again cause Baptista is going to be out for a while, and he won't want to risk being left with only Adebayor.

Bit of a relief if that's the case...

[Spur]

So, back to the points in hand, we will need to step up a gear by THREE or FOUR fold in order to pull of this near-impossible task. And it's even harder given that Karma and general rub-of-the-green generally goes against us. It's basically us against the world.

Since Jol's been in charge, in games against the top four we've only been outplayed twice. That was against Arsenal this season and Liverpool this season. The ratio is on his side, if we can outplay a team like we usually do then we might actually win this one as long as we take our chances.

[Ginola's Son]

That's an interesting point. But no-one will pat us on the back for not being thrashed by these teams, we need to beat them. But good point all the same.

But how about ratio of home games against the big teams and away ones. And also, flattering scorelines that don't tell the real story etc

[spurs61]

Since Jol's been in charge, in games against the top four we've only been outplayed twice.

Frankly, who cares? The facts don't lie and the facts say that we have only won one game against the top four since Jol took charge, not good enough. Did anyone read the Game yesterday and in particular Danny Kelly's article?

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,23530-2571905,00.html

[Spur]

Frankly, who cares? The facts don't lie and the facts say that we have only won one game against the top four since Jol took charge, not good enough. Did anyone read the Game yesterday and in particular Danny Kelly's article?

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,23530-2571905,00.html

Wait spurs61 - I thought you cared.

I thought this is what the whole argument was about?

You really have confused me there :confused:

[spurs61]

Wait spurs61 - I thought you cared.

I thought this is what the whole argument was about?

You really have confused me there :confused:

:confused: Now I'm confused?! I have not been arguing about performances, whilst they've not been brilliant it's the tactics and team selection which has troubled me.

Don't get me wrong, the performances are the most important thing to me, I pay my season ticket cost to be entertained. But there's very litle point in playing well (which we don't really) against the top four and constantly losing. In order to progress we need to be regularly getting results from these games, if only as a statement of intent.

[suBerb]

There is no official confirmation yet that Berbatov won't play tomorrow. I hope that he will.

[Spur]

:confused: Now I'm confused?! I have not been arguing about performances, whilst they've not been brilliant it's the tactics and team selection which has troubled me.

Don't get me wrong, the performances are the most important thing to me, I pay my season ticket cost to be entertained. But there's very litle point in playing well (which we don't really) against the top four and constantly losing. In order to progress we need to be regularly getting results from these games, if only as a statement of intent.

Tactics and performances go hand in hand really. If the performance is good it must mean the tactics are spot on. If the the performance is bad it's either the tactics working ala Botlon who play bad, or the tactics failing miserably no?

We've outplayed all the top four on regular basis. The only theam when games are 50-50 are against Liverpool. But we have outplayed both Man Utd and Chelsea consistently (even with 10 men against Chelsea) and Arsenal too except for this year at their ground and the second half at ours.

We have played some blinding football under Jol, I don't see how people can deny it. I realise we have played some poor stuff, but like I say for me that's the players not performing, otherwise we would be poor week in, week out.

I don't know what it is with Spurs fans, maybe we just need someone to blame for each and every little blip, as a team / squad / Club that is having to regrow-up yet again we are undoubtedly taking, not just strides, but giant ****ing leaps forward. We are in 3 cup competitions, and still in with a very realistic shout of UEFA Cup football via the League for the second year running. When was the last time any of that sentence or paragraph made any kind of sense whatsoever?

Maybe it is the fear of not getting UEFA Cup football that makes some of us scared and having the knee jerk to blame the coach, I don't believe people when they say they have come to the conclusion over the past 3 years that Jol is pants because for the past 2 we were one of the best teams in the world (slight over exaggeration noted). And we did play like it too. I remember one game a year ago against Newcastle I think it was - we were better than Barca.

But that's my overall opinion on the matter. It's gone on too far now to say anymore, we obviously differ in our opinions, which is a good thing considering this is a forum for sharing them. I like the fact everyone got involoved in this one, and that there was obvious divides between the pro's and anti's groups of around the same size. Nice one people, have a drink on me. With your on money :cool:

[choda]

:confused: Now I'm confused?! I have not been arguing about performances, whilst they've not been brilliant it's the tactics and team selection which has troubled me.

Don't get me wrong, the performances are the most important thing to me, I pay my season ticket cost to be entertained. But there's very litle point in playing well (which we don't really) against the top four and constantly losing. In order to progress we need to be regularly getting results from these games, if only as a statement of intent.

Mate, I just don't know how you can be so quick to dismiss Jol as a second rate manager. I've already made many points about this. Here's another one:

In the Arsenal game, did you know that they all agreed at half-time that they had to keep attacking?

Now, that's one example of how your instructions can just go out the window if your players don't perform or bottle it.

I think you can see a mile off when a manager isn't up to it. It's actually a pet hobby of mine. I don't believe that's the case here at all.

I can understand why you may think that, on the face of it, that he's not up to the job, but don't you think your being very premature?

I honestly believe that the managers of the top four would have done similarly last year and had similar struggles in development this year.

[spurs61]

Maybe it is the fear of not getting UEFA Cup football that makes some of us scared and having the knee jerk to blame the coach

That is a huge part of it. Eseentially, if we do not qualify for Europe the past three seasons will go down the plughole. I have never denied that we have progressed greatly during Jol's tenure, anyone who thinks otherwise is blind. But, I would hope that the majority of managers would achive these advances given the kind of cash which has been expended in that time. The problem is that we have not improved on last season, if anything we have regressed. We spent over £30 million in the summer with not very much to show for it, a worse goals for and a worse defence. You can point to the fact that we are still in both domestic cup competitions but I will point to the calibre of opposition we've faced in each round (other than the goons). Whilst our results in Europe have ben heartening, I would swap one or two results for a better league performance and placing. As I said earlier, faiure to qualify for europe will see the majority of our better players on their way.

[Welsh Spur]

I'd still start the two littluns, and play the ball on the floor.

I'd love to see that I know it would work but not when Robbo and Daws are so intent on wasting possession by lumping it up at them, why can't we play the ball up the field on the floor, quick touch passing, keep moving, we have the players, but some seem so brainless at times, what is this route one bullshit? It doesn't work with midgets up front!!!!!!

[Spur]

You can point to the fact that we are still in both domestic cup competitions but I will point to the calibre of opposition we've faced in each round (other than the goons).

The calibre of opponents is still immensely better than that of last season - that shows the lads are progressing with experience.

Also, i'm not sure we would lose any players should we fail to qualify. King won't go, Robbo wants to end his career here, Dawson wouldn't leave. The only one I have my doubts about is Aaron, but I would still have my doubts about him the same as I did Carrick even if we do get UEFA Cup. **** it, I would have my doubts should we pull one miracle out the bag and get CL football next year.

[choda]

That is a huge part of it. Eseentially, if we do not qualify for Europe the past three seasons will go down the plughole. I have never denied that we have progressed greatly during Jol's tenure, anyone who thinks otherwise is blind. But, I would hope that the majority of managers would achive these advances given the kind of cash which has been expended in that time. The problem is that we have not improved on last season, if anything we have regressed. We spent over £30 million in the summer with not very much to show for it, a worse goals for and a worse defence. You can point to the fact that we are still in both domestic cup competitions but I will point to the calibre of opposition we've faced in each round (other than the goons). Whilst our results in Europe have ben heartening, I would swap one or two results for a better league performance and placing. As I said earlier, faiure to qualify for europe will see the majority of our better players on their way.

Well that's the root of it, right there. I don't beleive we have regressed. We've now become a recognised europe team and are doing well in the domestic cups.

We're having problems developing the team in some respects, but it's not easy. We've had a huge turnover of big players this year. It will take time to be consistant on all levels. I think jol deserves our time and patience.

I still can't fathom where all this is coming from. It seems like huge impatience, maybe it isn't, I don't know.

[Spur]

I'd love to see that I know it would work but not when Robbo and Daws are so intent on wasting possession by lumping it up at them, why can't we play the ball up the field on the floor, quick touch passing, keep moving, we have the players, but some seem so brainless at times, what is this route one bullshit? It doesn't work with midgets up front!!!!!!

I want Mido because he can muscle his way past Senderos - who is the worst defender in the league. I would actually consider playing Titus instead of Senderos. Why did Wenger sell Cygan and keep Senderos? I thought he was the best manager in the world with the best eye for talent...? No, hmm, it seems all Arsenal fans are mistaken.

[MiloMinderbinder]

Also, i'm not sure we would lose any players should we fail to qualify. .

Wanna bet! It's like sunshine, you don't realise how much you value it until it's not there anymore. I doubt Berbatov would be too impressed at not playing in Europe next year.

[Spur]

Wanna bet! It's like sunshine, you don't realise how much you value it until it's not there anymore. I doubt Berbatov would be too impressed at not playing in Europe next year.

Well he shouldn't ****ing miss so many sitters then. Perhaps he could play for us in away games as well?

[choda]

We have got to qualify. We're in deep shit on many levels if we don't, but I'm sure we will.

If we don't THEN serious questions will have to be asked of Jol.

[MiloMinderbinder]

We have got to qualify. We're in deep shit on many levels if we don't, but I'm sure we will.

If we don't THEN serious questions will have to be asked of Jol.

Dunno if you noticed but regulars to the Lane have been questioning Jol for some itime, might be something in that don't you think!

[spurs61]

It certainly isn't impatience, I resent the implication as this is my 20 season as a ticket holder. If I was that impatient I would have given up long ago, I am and have always been an advocate of planning for the long-term.

My reservations regarding Jol are purely down to a number of issues, namely his inability to change a game, the set up of his sides against either better teams or more physical sides, the amount of money spent, the lack of a leader on the pitch, the lack of steel in the team in general, the seeming inability to recruit left sided players (not entirely down to Jol) and finally the fact that evryone thinks he's the messiah when he has achieved almost exactly what Bolton have achieved on a vastly inflated budget.

I've always said that I'm happy to see where we are come the seasons end and to remove Jol now would be idiotic in the extreme. I just think that he is viewed through rose-tinted specs by the overwhelming majority of our fans.

[Welsh Spur]

I can understand the fact that he's being questioned but at the same time, I don't want to see him gone, this club is at the best it's been in at least 10 years, and all I've seen in my 13 years is chopping and changing of managers. He still needs time, this is the first season we've had to play so many games in ages....by the end of this season we will have played 50% more games than last year. I think he's still on a learning curve and we can't expect him immediately take us to the CL. Things take time, I'm sure whatever happens by the end of this season we'll be better equipped next time around.

If we win the UEFA Cup, I cannot wait to see what all the Jol-bashers have to say then.....:p

[MiloMinderbinder]

I can understand the fact that he's being questioned but at the same time, I don't want to see him gone, this club is at the best it's been in at least 10 years, and all I've seen in my 13 years is chopping and changing of managers. He still needs time, this is the first season we've had to play so many games in ages....by the end of this season we will have played 50% more games than last year. I think he's still on a learning curve and we can't expect him immediately take us to the CL. Things take time, I'm sure whatever happens by the end of this season we'll be better equipped next time around.

If we win the UEFA Cup, I cannot wait to see what all the Jol-bashers have to say then.....:p

Christ, if we win the UEFA cup I think even Lee will be regarded with some affection!

[Welsh Spur]

I still like Lee, THAT incident against Manure last season just put a question mark over his head, and it doesn't seem to have gone!

[MiloMinderbinder]

I still like Lee, THAT incident against Manure last season just put a question mark over his head, and it doesn't seem to have gone!

do you know why I have a question mark over his head? It's for the burning issue of "how shit is he" a) very, b) extremly c) mind blowingly d) not at all it's us, we're all wrong and the bloke is a world beater.

Funnily enough I am leaning away from option d):D

[choda]

It certainly isn't impatience, I resent the implication as this is my 20 season as a ticket holder. If I was that impatient I would have given up long ago, I am and have always been an advocate of planning for the long-term.

My reservations regarding Jol are purely down to a number of issues, namely his inability to change a game, the set up of his sides against either better teams or more physical sides, the amount of money spent, the lack of a leader on the pitch, the lack of steel in the team in general, the seeming inability to recruit left sided players (not entirely down to Jol) and finally the fact that evryone thinks he's the messiah when he has achieved almost exactly what Bolton have achieved on a vastly inflated budget.

I've always said that I'm happy to see where we are come the seasons end and to remove Jol now would be idiotic in the extreme. I just think that he is viewed through rose-tinted specs by the overwhelming majority of our fans.

Okay it's not impatience then and your not being premature as you want to wait.

So it's basically that you are unhappy with the team right now and believe it is down to Jol. I on the other hand think it is developmental in nature and as a result of team-building factors.

Now, the comparison to Bolton I don't like. I certainly don't like it style wise and I don't think it is fair overall either. Here's why: We pushed the top four to the last game last year, Bolton never did that. We are a serious european contender, Bolton were average and failed in europe.

And here's the big point: I don't think Bolton will ever get beyond where they've been bobbing around for the past few years. Namely because of an effective but limted caveman style of play and also the fact that they buy veterans.

They are buying instant success in a way, instant success for Bolton. Fair enough, they'd probably get relegated if they bought a team of youngsters they could get.

We are building a proper team and will pass them out. We have bought talented youngsters and are developing them, that is why we are competing on a similar level right now. But we are far more likely over the next few seasons to break the top four.

I ****ing hate that I have to point this out. Baulton, as if they are anything to Spurs.

[Welsh Spur]

I hate Bolton :mad:

[JJ]

Dunno if you noticed but regulars to the Lane have been questioning Jol for some itime, might be something in that don't you think!

Possibly, but then we have the reputation of being fickle for a reason.

[MiloMinderbinder]

Possibly, but then we have the reputation of being fickle for a reason.

yeah mainly propgated by so called "experts", armchair fans and fans from other clubs. By fickle they mean demanding by demanding they mean, "oh they want to win AND play good football" I make no apologise for so called "fickle" fans, it means we know what we want and we will not be happy until we get it.

Another point is that Spurs fans tend to look beyond what the Sun:mad: tells them to think and formulate their own opinions as to what the issues at the club are based on evidence gleaned with their own eyes. That's why we are the best supporters in the land, unswerving loyalty to the club despite not nesscearily agreeing with them or each other on certain things (especially ticket prices).

[JJ]

yeah mainly propgated by so called "experts", armchair fans and fans from other clubs. By fickle they mean demanding by demanding they mean, "oh they want to win AND play good football" I make no apologise for so called "fickle" fans, it means we know what we want and we will not be happy until we get it.

Another point is that Spurs fans tend to look beyond what the Sun:mad: tells them to think and formulate their own opinions as to what the issues at the club are based on evidence gleaned with their own eyes. That's why we are the best supporters in the land, unswerving loyalty to the club despite not nesscearily agreeing with them or each other on certain things (especially ticket prices).

Well, then it comes down to whether we feel we should be that demanding at the moment. Anyone who feels we should be winning all the time whilst playing good football doesn't have a clear grasp on how the game works at all.

Not saying that you're one of those guys at all, but there has to be a level of understanding that we're in the middle of a transitional period. The squad of players we have is a serious team for the future, that doesn't necessarily mean that they're completely ready for the present, but that's the only way they'll learn.

[MiloMinderbinder]

Well, then it comes down to whether we feel we should be that demanding at the moment. Anyone who feels we should be winning all the time whilst playing good football doesn't have a clear grasp on how the game works at all.

It's about what we aspire to do and be. Anyone who says differently clearly doesn't understand the philosophy of the club and the fans and ought to go an suport the heinious lt down the road. Here's a simple test;

The philosophy of Tottenham Hotspur Football Club, is it;

a) "the game is about glory....."

or

b) "if you want entertaining go to the circus"

I think we know what the answer is to that one.

[JJ]

It's about what we aspire to do and be. Anyone who says differently clearly doesn't understand the philosophy of the club and the fans and ought to go an suport the heinious lt down the road. Here's a simple test;

The philosophy of Tottenham Hotspur Football Club, is it;

a) "the game is about glory....."

or

b) "if you want entertaining go to the circus"

I think we know what the answer is to that one.

Yeah, but they wouldn't be aspirations if we were already at that point of success. I can understand completely where we want to be and what we want to achieve, that doesn't mean that we demand that it happens right now.

[MiloMinderbinder]

Yeah, but they wouldn't be aspirations if we were already at that point of success. I can understand completely where we want to be and what we want to achieve, that doesn't mean that we demand that it happens right now.

I didn't say we should, I was trying to illustrate the phrase "fickle fan" is bullshit, apart from anything else it doesn't legislate for a change of mind (although it is a given that quite a lot of football fans don't have a mind to change in the 1st instance, is it Gooners?!).

Personally I am more interested in seeing us play top quality stuff week in week out than trying to win the league, which lets face it is just vulgar:p .

[JJ]

I didn't say we should, I was trying to illustrate the phrase "fickle fan" is bullshit, apart from anything else it doesn't legislate for a change of mind (although it is a given that quite a lot of football fans don't have a mind to change in the 1st instance, is it Gooners?!).

Personally I am more interested in seeing us play top quality stuff week in week out than trying to win the league, which lets face it is just vulgar:p .

I'm with you, i'd much rather lose and play wonderful football, and the fact that we do that in patches when most teams in the Premiership play none at all is very reassuring for me.

My problem is that if someones mind can change that drastically, then they clearly didn't know what they were talking about in the first place. Again, not aimed at you, but there are many people (not on the forum) who talk about Jol not being the man to take us further. He was last year, why wouldn't he be now?

[Welsh Spur]

I'm in agreement over the transitional period. Jol didn't have to deal with what he's had to deal with this season last year, if that makes sense, this is the first time he's had this squad competing on a lot of fronts and I bet he's learned a few lessons. We need more quality for one, the only gripe I have about him are the tatics used in games like last wednesday's, it just beggars belief how we can go 2-0 up early on and then just sit off our biggest rivals at home for a place in a domestic final!?!?

[JJ]

I'm in agreement over the transitional period. Jol didn't have to deal with what he's had to deal with this season last year, if that makes sense, this is the first time he's had this squad competing on a lot of fronts and I bet he's learned a few lessons. We need more quality for one, the only gripe I have about him are the tatics used in games like last wednesday's, it just beggars belief how we can go 2-0 up early on and then just sit off our biggest rivals at home for a place in a domestic final!?!?

Sadly though, according to the players that wasn't the plan tactically. The players just mentally did it themselves. That attitude is something that will develop in time, but it's not really something you can force players to do.

[Welsh Spur]

I heard a comment from a Chelsea player saying that Mourinho is such a good manager because he instills that belief into them that they can beat anyone, that they are the best....

...our players just don't seem to have that belief even though they clearly have the talent, look at Berbatov away from home, Keane, Defoe and Lennon, Huddlestone....

...The two players that have impressed me the most this season are Malbranque and Chimbonda. Always on their game, doing their jobs and working their socks off. And I don't think Dawson has really put a foot wrong since he's been here.

[MiloMinderbinder]

I'm with you, i'd much rather lose and play wonderful football, and the fact that we do that in patches when most teams in the Premiership play none at all is very reassuring for me.

My problem is that if someones mind can change that drastically, then they clearly didn't know what they were talking about in the first place. Again, not aimed at you, but there are many people (not on the forum) who talk about Jol not being the man to take us further. He was last year, why wouldn't he be now?

my friend qualify for the "Spurs - style over substance award for long suffering football pursits" which I am the president of.

Rather lose 5-4 in a cracker than draw 0-0 in a drab game.

To illustate this point, want to know what one of my favourite games of all time is? - Spurs 3 Man U 5 - the football played by both sides was easily the best I have ever seen by any team, anywhere.

I take your point about changing your mind, but it's all a matter of opinion, as I have said, given the amount of £ spent and players at our disposal what was achieved last year, although a great improvement on recent times, is the bare minimum I would of expected.

[JJ]

I heard a comment from a Chelsea player saying that Mourinho is such a good manager because he instills that belief into them that they can beat anyone, that they are the best....

...our players just don't seem to have that belief even though they clearly have the talent, look at Berbatov away from home, Keane, Defoe and Lennon, Huddlestone....

...The two players that have impressed me the most this season are Malbranque and Chimbonda. Always on their game, doing their jobs and working their socks off. And I don't think Dawson has really put a foot wrong since he's been here.

It's easier with Chelsea though considering their team is packed full of experienced internationals, and generally cocks with massive egos so i doubt it takes much.

Plus they won the league, which can't hurt.

[suBerb]

Jol is a very good manager. However, is he in the same class as Ferguson, Wenger, Benitez and Mourinho? I doubt it.

[JJ]

Jol is a very good manager. However, is he in the same class as Ferguson, Wenger, Benitez and Mourinho? I doubt it.

They all had to start somewhere.

Wenger started management at Nancy in '84, didn't win anything. Then went to Monaco and won 2 trophies in 7 years, won the Japanese league with Grampus Eight then came to Arsenal and the rest is history, so to speak.

Ferguson has been managing since 1974, can't be ****ed going through his lanky history, but needless to say he wasn't an immediate success story either.

Mourinho didn't win anything at his first 2 clubs, and then worked with Bobby Robson at both Porto and Barcelona before taking on an actual coaching role so it's not like he hasn't taken some time to learn.

The pattern? Time, none of them were immediately successful.

[Gino Ginelli]

Absolutely. It's going to take Jol a good 3 or 4 seasons to make us a consistent top 6 - 4 team, and then you're talking a lot of hard work on top of that to start winning leagues and stuff.

As for the Champions League, Man Utd have got to just ONE final in thier last decade and a half of successes. So let's just stay realistic and be patient with the big man, hughton, commolli, Levy and the key players we have.

As I've said on another thread, we're several players away from that squad yet.

[suBerb]

Some mates here raise the question about Berbatov's away form. OK, he hasn't been impressive but this has nothing to do with his mentality. Last season he scored nearly 70% of his goals in the Bundesliga in away games. And his best preformances in the Champions League were at Bernabeu and Olimpico, i.e., far from BayArena. So, the problem is hardly with his away form but rather with the team's away performances.

As regards Spur's complaint that he misses sitters, I'd say that there is no forward in the world who does not miss sitters. Henry and Shevchenko missed incredible chances in the last two finals of the CL and this costed their teams the title. To put it somewhat differently, the fact that Berbatov misses sitters is a blessing in disguise. For otherwise he would rapidly move to Barca or Real. Now he will stay here at least to the summer of 2008 and help us finish in top 3 next season. Remember where you have read it!

[jrio]

Just hearing on SSN that City are confident of signing Mido by midnight tomorrow seems to indicate that this will be his last game for us. I'm assuming that he will start otherwise we may be in for an Arsenal passing show.

[SurreySpur]

Just hearing on SSN that City are confident of signing Mido by midnight tomorrow seems to indicate that this will be his last game for us. I'm assuming that he will start otherwise we may be in for an Arsenal passing show.

I assume that we will have a replacement already lined up, cant go through the rest of the season with only 3 strikers.

[JJ]

Rasiak! :D

[Spur]

My reservations regarding Jol are purely down to a number of issues, namely his inability to change a game

So the 15 games last season where we went 1 or 2 nil down and still came back to win have had no effect on you? None at all?

[mjbmedia]

So the 15 games last season where we went 1 or 2 nil down and still came back to win have had no effect on you? None at all?
AHH IT HAD AN EFFECT LAST SEASON, but that was last season, if he could do it last season and is , according to many on here, making progress, how come he aint doing it this season??

it seems MJ has taken a backward step in his management skills and also seems to be taking a long time trying to take a step forwards again ie making the same sort of errors time and again.
i watched the fulham game in a bar in Barbados and god it was drab (the game not Barbados!!) as usual away from home we only started playing when we was behind, heres an idea why not play the 90 minutes like that then we might win more!!!!!

been saying it for at least 6 months now and getting shot down in flames mostly for it but hes too negative , we have the squad to dominate most games yet seem content to grind

[Spur]

AHH IT HAD AN EFFECT LAST SEASON, but that was last season, if he could do it last season and is , according to many on here, making progress, how come he aint doing it this season??

UEFA Cup Quarters, 90 minutes away from a trip to Cardiff, and well on our way to the first Wembley final. All this without falling out of touch in the league whilst being hit by injuries to key personnel throughout the whole season...i'd say we have done pretty well so far.

And that's without even performing yet.

[spursmadnick06]

Arsenal squads been announced ..

2. Abou Diaby
4. Francesc Fabregas
5. Kolo Toure
6. Philippe Senderos
7. Tomas Rosicky
15. Denilson
16. Mathieu Flamini
19. Gilberto
21. Mart Poom
22. Gael Clichy
24. Manuel Almunia
25. Emmanuel Adebayor
30. Jeremie Aliadiere
31. Justin Hoyte
32. Theo Walcott
45. Armand Traore


No Henry at least...

[MiloMinderbinder]

Arsenal squads been announced ..

2. Abou Diaby - destined to be a full international
4. Francesc Fabregas - destined to be like the best player you've ever seen.
5. Kolo Toure - full international inc World Cup
6. Philippe Senderos - full international inc World Cup
7. Tomas Rosicky - full international - inc World Cup
15. Denilson - destined to be a full international
16. Mathieu Flamini - shite (great he'll score now)
19. Gilberto - full international inc World Cup
21. Mart Poom - full international
22. Gael Clichy - overrated.
24. Manuel Almunia - dog's wank.
25. Emmanuel Adebayor - full international inc. World Cup
30. Jeremie Aliadiere - err, hmm, yeah DOGS WANK
31. Justin Hoyte - will never be an international
32. Theo Walcott - full international inc World Cup(?) Peado's favourite
45. Armand Traore - err who


No Henry at least...

ah yes the famous Arsenal "kids" an anottated summary of which I have issued for ease of reference so that you will all see how inexperienced these little boys are.

[hastingsyid]

Come On You Spurs

[mjbmedia]

be abit embarrasing losing to them wont it

[MiloMinderbinder]

be abit embarrasing losing to them wont it

it's embarrasing losing to anyone. But check out the comments I have left on their squad, don't believe the bullshit that Sky and the tabloids (same thing really, in fact Sky should be rebranded as Chav TV) about the Gooners being kids, it's complete an utter drivel, made up to sell their shitty newspapers to morons. 75% of the statring xi are full internationals with significant numbers of those having played at the World Cup.

[mjbmedia]

NO???? Really cor i didnt know that :rolleyes: :D

so not too disimilar to our own team then except that all of ours have a lot of first team experience whereas many of theirs dont = embarrasing to lose to them

[MiloMinderbinder]

NO???? Really cor i didnt know that :rolleyes: :D

so not too disimilar to our own team then except that all of ours have a lot of first team experience whereas many of theirs dont = embarrasing to lose to them

Which ones don't have a lot of experience? I can only think of A. Toure, Denilson and of course Walnut and that's about it. The rest of them are fully versed in 1st team football and as stated mst are internationals - which of course translates as "inexperienced kids" in the eyes of gutter press journos.

Our lot are slightly more experienced but nevertheless still rather green.

It's a tabloid myth for council estate dwellers who can't question information of their own free will.

[Chaydle]

The first leg was embarrassing enough, lets hope BMJ has learnt his lessons and play to win away from home not scrape a lead and hang on to it!!!

[wayne wonder]

Lets all fear the worst and hope the opposite happens because im sick of my heart being broken and i've had a shit day today so if we lose that'll send me over the edge for sure. :(

[Chaydle]

Lets all fear the worst and hope the opposite happens because im sick of my heart being broken and i've had a shit day today so if we lose that'll send me over the edge for sure. :(


Fearing the worse is one of my best defence weapons when it comes to being a spurs fan for the last 25yrs!!!

Always expect the unexpected!

[mjbmedia]

is it right i know away goals dont count as in Europe, but i think at the end of extra time they do count, i could be wrong but im not normally :p

of course no one on Sky will tell us until theres 119 minutes gone and some scottish **** will say ''ayyee well now ayyeee there you go Jimmy '

could we bear penalties ??

ps as i was away what was all the hassle over ticket allocations at the skank new place ?? how many did we get tonite?

[Chaydle]

Away goals count after extra time

As for tickets we have about 3,000

It's them and us!

[spurs61]

is it right i know away goals dont count as in Europe, but i think at the end of extra time they do count, i could be wrong but im not normally :p

of course no one on Sky will tell us until theres 119 minutes gone and some scottish **** will say ''ayyee well now ayyeee there you go Jimmy '

could we bear penalties ??

ps as i was away what was all the hassle over ticket allocations at the skank new place ?? how many did we get tonite?

If I were you I'd have stayed in Barbados until this tie was over! ;)

Away goals only count after extra time, so it's not a problem. :rolleyes:

I think the scum gave us a typically generous allocation of 6 tickets and then demanded the entire West Stand for the previous tie. Bunch of wankstains that they are.....

[mjbmedia]

so how many did they have at our place????

3000 can still do a lot of damage to a new stadium and its surroundings and most of all the ugly fans that frequent it , its about time it went off big time between us im getting bored with all the niceties

[spurs61]

so how many did they have at our place????

3000 can still do a lot of damage to a new stadium and its surroundings and most of all the ugly fans that frequent it , its about time it went off big time between us im getting bored with all the niceties

The thing is, if we go down a trash the place the club get punished. The best thing to do is to wait until the Spammer or somesuch play at the shitehole. Then we send down a few thousand ringers and hey presto, one trashed stadium AND the Spammers get punished for it! Not that I would advocate that sort of behaviour!

[nuttyhotspurs]

lennon on the bench. great news

[Ioang]

jol isnt starting mido or lennon.

Either he's been handed money to throw the tie or lennon's on his way out to chelsea for £20 mil at midnight....

what. the. ****?

[SurreySpur]

You're ****ing kidding me right?

No lennon or Mido?

[Ioang]

we wish.

tactical ineptness is one thing - MJ is something completely different.

[Ioang]

mido's definitely out then. Shouldnt we get a replacement in too? 3 forwards isnt enough! Berbatovs injured right now...

[Spur]

Where / What is the team?

[GOONHATER]

good Luck To All Of You Boys Tonight! Were On Our Way To Cardiff! Coys!!!!!!!!

[Ioang]

emirates/NARROW. Park the bus in front of goal-narrow.

[SurreySpur]

Robinson, Chimbonda, Dawson, Gardner, Assou-Ekotto, Ghaly, Malbranque, Jenas, Zokora, Defoe, Keane

Subs: Cerny, Rocha, Lennon, Huddlestone, Mido

[Spur]

Robinson, Chimbonda, Dawson, Gardner, Assou-Ekotto, Ghaly, Malbranque, Jenas, Zokora, Defoe, Keane

Subs: Cerny, Rocha, Lennon, Huddlestone, Mido

Well that's just ridiculous.

I don't think i'm gonna watch.

[shakey18]

According to Sky, Lennon's name was originally on the teamsheet, but was then replaced by Ghaly for "tactical reasons".I hope BMJ knows what he's doing.

[jrio]

That looks like a side that is going to be easily beaten. Maybe the tactic is to go into half-time all square and bring Lennon on in the second half. It doesn't look very positive and if that was the idea I'd have expected Mido to start.

[SurreySpur]

Lets just get behind the team, it may not be the side that we'd all choose but they are still Tottenham Hotspur!!!!!!!!!!

[shakey18]

Lets just get behind the team, it may not be the side that we'd all choose but they are still Tottenham Hotspur!!!!!!!!!!

Well said SS!! COYS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Ioang]

Ok lennon's been a bit poorly - thats excusable. Why don't we have a single other wide player? Why haven't we recalled Routledge yet? Why isn't Mido Playing?

Come on you spurs! (tacked on the end!)

[spurs61]

Once again our Manager has demonstrated his mentality, he's so negative! He has effectively handed the initiative and even greater psycological advantage to Arsenal. Regardless of the result tonight I hope that todays selection will finally show the majority of our fans that Jol. is the wrong man for Spurs. FFS, monkeys learn from their mistakes but apparently not Martin Jol. Having handed the goons the first leg on a plate after half time, he's now gone one better.

[canadaspur]

I'm gobsmacked by this team selection,looks like a ****ing surrender!

[jrio]

The consensus seems to be that Lennon has been suffering from sort of illness, so it would be understandable if he doesn't start.

[SurreySpur]

Well in ghaly, in his defence senderos' head does look like a football!!

[Billywhizz]

Robinson, Chimbonda, Dawson, Gardner, Assou-Ekotto, Ghaly, Malbranque, Jenas, Zokora, Defoe, Keane

Subs: Cerny, Rocha, Lennon, Huddlestone, Mido

WTF, It seems to me Jol is frightened shitless with there passing and movement.........thats such a negative team selection it's unreal. he should have been a lot bolder than that, still we will wait and see what happens.:confused: :confused:

[Mido11_pharaoh]

keano misses a chance ...

[SurreySpur]

****ing hell, free kick after free kick going to the whiny little ****s.

[Ioang]

we are outsinging them SO badly!

[MarlowSpurs]

**** my heart isn't going to take much more. Is it me or do we look really narrow, everything is down the middle or to one of there players.

[Ginola's Son]

Jenas is ****ING ME OFF!

He's playing like its an away game at Watford! ITs the Semi's of a cup against the gooners! For ****s sake!!

WHERE IS LENNON! WHY IS GARDNER PLAYING!!! WHY JOL WHY!"!

[MarlowSpurs]

WHERE IS LENNON! WHY IS GARDNER PLAYING!!! WHY JOL WHY!"!

Answers on a postcard please to the usual address.

[SurreySpur]

And we only have four subs!!! for **** sake

[SurreySpur]

Defoe isnt in the game at all, the time might be right to make a change!!

[Mido11_pharaoh]

adebayor scorres ......

[Ioang]

****.













****.

[nuttyhotspurs]

dawsons first mistake of the match. switches off for a split second and goal

[MarlowSpurs]

****ing Bollocks

[MACCSPURS]

Fact is, we blew it in the first match and watching this we don't look like we are ever going to score anyway.

This is the best we have against their kids....

all you can do is "sigh"

[SurreySpur]

Midoooooooooooooooooooooooo

[MACCSPURS]

Wait one second....

[nuttyhotspurs]

This is the best we have against their kids....

it isnt the best we have. king, berby, lennon not playing. i dont know about you but i think they are our 3 most important players

[Ioang]

of course he should have ****ing started.
of course the hudd should have ****ing started.

[Mido11_pharaoh]

Midoooooooooooooooooooooooooo.....I can't believe it

[SurreySpur]

Nearly the winner!!! COME ON YOU SPURS

[Ioang]

dya think he looks like a guy who's playing for a last minute outgoing loan cancellation...?

[MarlowSpurs]

Anyone know if you can jump start your heart with a pair of jump leads attached to your nipples from a car battery cause my heart is ****ed.

[nuttyhotspurs]

i dont give a ****. if he scores again and we go through. he be a spurs legend whatever happens after the game

[GOONHATER]

I'm Well Pissed Now Are We Going To Do This! Coys

[Spur]

I'm shitting bricks.

Those whiny little ****s can't even win in normal time playing 12 men (The Referee).

[MarlowSpurs]

I wish I could shit bricks my arse has clammed up

[SurreySpur]

****ing ****s

[JuicE]

We still need to score, lets see the master tactician at work! :(

[JuicE]

Daws up front!!!! :eek:

[Ioang]

I didn't want to lose this one on away goals. Thats the only positive I can think of right now!

[Mido11_pharaoh]

we need a goal for pelanties shots

[JuicE]

I didn't want to lose this one on away goals. Thats the only positive I can think of right now!

How about not having to get getting thumped in the final? ;)

[SurreySpur]

The Ref has been ****ing appaulling

[SurreySpur]

I feel like ****ing hurting someone!! ;)

[SurreySpur]

And doesn't Andy Gray just love it, ****ing sweaty ****

[JuicE]

its over!!!!

[MACCSPURS]

Now we are 3-1 down, we will probably wake up...:confused:

[Spur]

At least Sky will be happy.

[Chaydle]

3-1 getting what we deserved for yet another Jol negative display, 1 shot on goal, ****ing disgrace:mad:

[nuttyhotspurs]

definately a baptism of fire for rocha. hope this doesnt affect him too much

[Chaydle]

And doesn't Andy Gray just love it, ****ing sweaty ****

Agree, one of the most biased piece of commentating i've heard for a long time, go on glenn **** him!

[denis-cro]

Martin Jol should be sacked ASAP!!! :mad:

[nuttyhotspurs]

And doesn't Andy Gray just love it, ****ing sweaty ****

he is a prick but he got it right. the scum have been the better side for all but the 1st half of the 1st leg.

its simple we blew it in the 2nd half last week. the players only have themselves to blame

[JuicE]

It's what happens when you play two small guys up front with no service.

[nuttyhotspurs]

Martin Jol should be sacked ASAP!!! :mad:

i was waiting for that lol

[SurreySpur]

3-1 getting what we deserved for yet another Jol negative display, 1 shot on goal, ****ing disgrace:mad:

Why equalise, get to extra time then sit back and not try to win the game?? Surely we had the phsycological edge having equalised so late in the 90mins.

Im absolutley gutted at this performance. Actually ashamed is a more accurate description. Gutless bunch of tarts.

[denis-cro]

Same mistakes over and over again ...:(

[Ioang]

We can't be too ashamed - a much better performance than our last game at the emirates. There are lots of ways to lose to Arsenal - losing 5-3 on aggregate really aint too bad.

[MACCSPURS]

You can blame the ref

You can moan about Andy Gray

But the scum fans never said it better when they sang "you were 2-0 up and f**ked it up"

Face it, we have never been in this game since the end of the first half in the first leg.

[SurreySpur]

I hope i never meet Andy Gray!!

[Spur]

Gutless bunch of tarts.

That's the story of our season.

There's not many people coming out of this game with any amount of credit. It might stretch to Chimbo, Dawson, Benny and Robbo. That's it. Keane has done an awful lot of running but no end product. I'm still waiting for Jenas and Zokora to show up. Steed did alright.

[MACCSPURS]

We can't be too ashamed - a much better performance than our last game at the emirates. There are lots of ways to lose to Arsenal - losing 5-3 on aggregate really aint too bad.

That's a good point because that was a joke too......losing 3-0 to the scum but in that game none of our players could be asked.

[peterc]

Where the **** was Defoe that many of you think he is one the best English strikers in the Premiership?, a complete waste of space. Well over rated. Mido has shown he can be affective if given the chance. Arsenal won tonight simply cos they outclassed us in extra time, they were determined to win, we weren't.

[MACCSPURS]

Now we will hear Jol say......

"we were tired"

[Chaydle]

You can blame the ref

You can moan about Andy Gray

But the scum fans never said it better when they sang "you were 2-0 up and f**ked it up"

Face it, we have never been in this game since the end of the first half in the first leg.


I agree, that means we can all blame Martin Jol and I ****ing do, our best chance of Europe gone
:mad:

[Ioang]

Jol never makes excuses - I won't hear that said against him.

[Spur]

Oh yea and Defoe must still be on the coach. ****in' shocking. Done nothing for the whole ****ing game. Total shit.

[jrio]

3-1 getting what we deserved for yet another Jol negative display, 1 shot on goal, ****ing disgrace:mad:

The figures don't back that up: 11-3(on target), 16-8(off target).

[MACCSPURS]

One last thing....

I really hate Henry and his stupid dancing when he is NOT even playing after a goal. It's a real shame there are no player like Roy Keane about any more to take that frog out!

[Mido11_pharaoh]

We needed lenon and mido in and Rocha out to win this game ....hardluck guys

[Spur]

I don't think you can blame the coach. The players showed they are willing to play because they did it for ten minutes. If it were the coach then they wouldn't have done it at all.

The best description is gutless - again. You can't blame a coach for being gutless. You blame the players for not putting their shift in - which very few of them have done.

Of course not many of you will see it that way. You view it bad performance = bad management.

[Ioang]

at least we can stop all the bollocks about 'still going strong in 4 competitions'

[denis-cro]

I think I´ll dream about Mido´s shot in 91st minute...so close...:(

[MACCSPURS]

Now we can spend the rest of the evening talking about who we are not going to sign :)

[Chaydle]

The figures don't back that up: 11-3(on target), 16-8(off target).

Ok, I may have got the figures wrong, but was this not a game that we needed to win, not sit back and invite pressure on to us.

When will Jol take the initiative rather than fire fighting!

[nuttyhotspurs]

Where the **** was Defoe that many of you think he is one the best English strikers in the Premiership?, a complete waste of space. Well over rated. Mido has shown he can be affective if given the chance. Arsenal won tonight simply cos they outclassed us in extra time, they were determined to win, we weren't.

he had a bad game but everyone one knows he never plays well alongside keane and vice versa, they are a shite partnership.mido can be effective when given a chance yea but are you saying defoe isnt effective when playing alongside berbatov? of course he is.

he had a bad game but he had absolutely jack shit to work on. get off his back. it was a pretty abysmal team display overall. dawson worked hard but made costly mistakes, keane worked hard but for what? same goes for steed, benny and chimbo

[Chaydle]

I don't think you can blame the coach. The players showed they are willing to play because they did it for ten minutes. If it were the coach then they wouldn't have done it at all.

The best description is gutless - again. You can't blame a coach for being gutless. You blame the players for not putting their shift in - which very few of them have done.

Of course not many of you will see it that way. You view it bad performance = bad management.

Oh yes, this was the isolated bad performance:rolleyes:

As has been stated before, if George Graham was manager the reaction would be different

[denis-cro]

Anyone knows if Berbatov will be fit to play against MUFC on Sunday ???

[wayne wonder]

****KKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK IT!!!

GRRRRRRRRR ****ING BUNCH OF SLAGGING ****S EVERYTIME :mad: :mad:

[Billywhizz]

We had them by the bollox when we scored, they were all over the place because it was getting a bit physical. Then we decide to go back into our shells in the 1st period of extra time when they were there for the taking. very poor tactics i'm thinking.

Rocha looks a solid defender but he's got to learn not to head the ball when it's 2 inchs of the floor bad mistake.:( :( :(

[Chewy]

For the first time I doubt martin jol. I DO NOT want him sacked but not only do we REALLY need a left winger...we REALLY need a new assistant manager who has experience.

We waited until they had scored to bring on subs, for **** sake at one point the possession was 78 percent to 22 percent. Martin, that means make changes i.e Do your job!!

[wayne wonder]

We had them by the bollox when we scored, they were all over the place because it was getting a bit physical. Then we decide to go back into our shells in the 1st period of extra time when they were there for the taking. very poor tactics i'm thinking.

Rocha looks a solid defender but he's got to learn not to head the ball when it's 2 inchs of the floor bad mistake.:( :( :(

hahaha true he looks decent tho and better than gardner!!

[Spur]

Oh yes, this was the isolated bad performance:rolleyes:

As has been stated before, if George Graham was manager the reaction would be different

Had George Graham had had the same last season as Jol did last season it wouldn't be different from me.

If George Graham had had the same last season and this season as Jol did have and is having would you still be happy to get down on your knees to give him a blowjob? So if the answer is no doesn't that make your point pointless then?

[wayne wonder]

For the first time I doubt martin jol. I DO NOT want him sacked but not only do we REALLY need a left winger...we REALLY need a new assistant manager who has experience.

We waited until they had scored to bring on subs, for **** sake at one point the possession was 78 percent to 22 percent. Martin, that means make changes i.e Do your job!!

Mate he doesn't do changes he's a *****!!!

[highlander]

we REALLY need a new assistant manager who has experience


im behind you all the way with that 1

[spurs4ever]

Absolutley gutted........ I really thought we could do it....

****ing defensive shit play, did not hold the bal enough, no threat up front!! I had to check the team sheet in extra time to see if De Foe was still on the pitch!!

All this against the scums weaken side... FFS!!! I am gonna get the shit ripped at work for days now!
THANKS JOL!! YOU USELESS FAT ****!! SORT IT OUT!

and the lads did not fair much better Only Dawson looked any good and perhaps MIDO who at least made a fist of it!

UTTER SHIT RESULT!

[Ginola's Son]

My take on the game.

I am very emotional because it really sickens me to watch my team that I love dearly, play like that.

It was so so patchy. I mean, to lose 3-1 AET to a team filled with impressive players is no disgrace. But at the same time, it is a disgrace, because after we clawed our way back into the game, the onus really was on us to nick it, to really show them. Instead we play like utter flops in Extra time and hand them the game on a plate.

We could and should have sneaked that, we managed to contain them defensively, Robbo did well, Dawson was heroic, Gardner was shaky but luck held out, Chimbo was gutsy and even BAE was getting in there, but when it came to the midfield, Zokora was slow, where were his bursts of speed? Jenas was bar-none our worst player on the field, I cannot beleive how lazily he approached the most important game we've had at the club in 6 years. I'm disgusted with him. Malbranque was courageous, but he could not do it all on his own. Keane and Defoe could do little with the service they did manage to get because every air-ball was the goalies or the defences, and every ball on the floor was predictable.

I'd like to apologize to Mido. Even though he won't ever read this, but I thought his attitude when he came on was marvellous, he came on, got in their faces, scored a brilliant goal and then never gave up in the ghost in ET even though the rest of team had.

Rocha made a very very huge mistake that cost us the game. He needs to live with that now, not the best way to start your career with us, when in doubt Ricardo....HOOF IT OUT!

At the end of the second half, we were actually taking them on, finally shitting them up a bit on their damn new stadium, but it was to no avail...you see we lose Lennon entirely. But they have a fresh Fabregas to run at us for 30 mins, we really didnt stand a chance at that point. Thier subs won them the game and the result cannot be complained about, but the attitudes of certain of our players can be. We did not deserve to go to a final based on that performance. Not good enough at all, and as usual against them, we get found out. And it hurts SO much. Cos they always get their own way. This Tottenham team just like EVERY Tottenham team, no matter who the gaffer is, just cannot withstand them over a 90 or 120 minute period. It's horrible for us, Everton get the odd win over Liverpool, City beat United on occaison, but we never never get to beat Arsenal. Why does this happen to us? Because we have no beleif and thats fans and players alike.

The only way we can buck this trend....and I hate saying this...is to get an 'Abramovich' in, to buy the worlds best and force it home like Chelsea.

I feel like crying. Not because we lost, because never for a second did I think we would win. But because of the despair I feel at yet another non-achievement. I'd give a lung to see us just win something....anything.

Now we've lost a cup game, we must make sure we don't shit it...we are still in two cups, many other teams have nothing, there's still a season to play for. Hopefully, tonight has tought some of the players that you don't get given anything in this game, you have to TAKE IT!

Always Spurs to my dying day

*GS sniffles into his hankie*

[Billywhizz]

hahaha true he looks decent tho and better than gardner!!

Agree with ya there..............but to be fair i don't think Gardner had a bad game and thats on both times we've played them, i don't think that long streak of piss adyboring beat him to many times in the air.

anyway have we bought anyone i heard Giles Barnes then Nene and even Teddy...........:confused: :confused:

[Chaydle]

BMJ is getting more like Sven with every passing game, instead of sitting on the bench with arms folded, stands in the technical area with arms folded, where's the urgency, where's the passion, where's the tactical nous.

I'm not having it that it's the players fault, give the same players to Sam Allardyce/MON/Steve Coppell/Harry Redknapp and we would be top 5 every year

[peterc]

he had a bad game but everyone one knows he never plays well alongside keane and vice versa, they are a shite partnership.mido can be effective when given a chance yea but are you saying defoe isnt effective when playing alongside berbatov? of course he is.

he had a bad game but he had absolutely jack shit to work on. get off his back. it was a pretty abysmal team display overall. dawson worked hard but made costly mistakes, keane worked hard but for what? same goes for steed, benny and chimbo

Why should I not slate Defoe, he was shit and many of you think he is the living legend at the Lane, I don't. Sell him tonight.

[denis-cro]

BMJ is getting more like Sven with every passing game, instead of sitting on the bench with arms folded, stands in the technical area with arms folded, where's the urgency, where's the passion, where's the tactical nous.

I'm not having it that it's the players fault, give the same players to Sam Allardyce/MON/Steve Coppell/Harry Redknapp and we would be top 5 every year

Well said...

[Chaydle]

Had George Graham had had the same last season as Jol did last season it wouldn't be different from me.

If George Graham had had the same last season and this season as Jol did have and is having would you still be happy to get down on your knees to give him a blowjob? So if the answer is no doesn't that make your point pointless then?

I'm no big fan of Graham but I was talking about us playing negative football.

What would you prefer finishing 5th and getting into the UEFA cup or winning the League Cup like GG did in 99 and getting into the UEFA cup??
I know what I'd choose!

[spurs4ever]

Why should I not slate Defoe, he was shit and many of you think he is the living legend at the Lane, I don't. Sell him tonight.

I agree, He was all but invisible tonight when we needed him the most. Andy cock Gray pointed out that he and Keano needed a big game....

Semi v the SCUM, it does not get much bigger....

Mido was tencious, hungry and up for it.. if he goes **** me what will we do next.

as an aside How the **** can we shoot oursleves in the foot before we kick a ball by not doing the team sheet properly...

[wayne wonder]

Agree with ya there..............but to be fair i don't think Gardner had a bad game and thats on both times we've played them, i don't think that long streak of piss adyboring beat him to many times in the air.

anyway have we bought anyone i heard Giles Barnes then Nene and even Teddy...........:confused: :confused:


He did have a decent game mate!!!

****ing hurts mate but the fans did us proud again!!!

[peterc]

I agree, He was all but invisible tonight when we needed him the most. Andy cock Gray pointed out that he and Keano needed a big game....

Semi v the SCUM, it does not get much bigger....

Mido was tencious, hungry and up for it.. if he goes **** me what will we do next.

as an aside How the **** can we shoot oursleves in the foot before we kick a ball by not doing the team sheet properly...

That shows what type of management we have in the team.

[spurs4ever]

That shows what type of management we have in the team.

****ing shambles.... utter shambles

[wayne wonder]

The person i feel for is Ledley King the only shining light in that team and dawson!!!

**** em all off im off to bed i cant be arsed:(

[Thfc4Life]

BMJ is getting more like Sven with every passing game, instead of sitting on the bench with arms folded, stands in the technical area with arms folded, where's the urgency, where's the passion, where's the tactical nous.

I'm not having it that it's the players fault, give the same players to Sam Allardyce/MON/Steve Coppell/Harry Redknapp and we would be top 5 every year

Spot on mate!

Ive said it before and I will say it again, we will NEVER win anything with Martin Jol in charge, because he is far too negative and cautious.

You only have to look at the successful managers in recent years Ferguson, Wenger, Mourinho etc all of them have an attacking mentality and don't just sit back on a one goal lead :rolleyes:

[Ginola's Son]

Ferguson, Wenger, Mourinho etc all of them have an attacking mentality and don't just sit back on a one goal lead

Yeah, its not like Mourinho and Ferguson can buy anyone in the world either.

[Shuggie13]

I know we are all pissed off, but slating Defoe is just nonsense. When the team has been playing well he has scored, when we are shit he has not. It's not rocket science. How many sitters has he missed during this piss-poor spell? Not many I bet.

[Ginola's Son]

Exactly Shuggie. Its the same old story.

Someone called Jol a Fat Cu** on here which I think is disgraceful and some people need to grow up and take it on the chin. We asked to lose and we got what we deserved.

[spurs61]

Exactly Shuggie. Its the same old story.

Someone called Jol a Fat Cu** on here which I think is disgraceful and some people need to grow up and take it on the chin. We asked to lose and we got what we deserved.

Couldn't agree more GS me old china. Can I think he's ****in' clueless though? ;)

Ah gallows humour, I was wondering what had got me through the past two decades of unrimmitting faliure punctuated by the occassional false dawn. :rolleyes:

[Ginola's Son]

There's nothing you can say really. You just want to moan to the rooftops. But I guess the only consolation is that a semi-final is at least progress and that you have to be in it to win it. Pity we can't win it if those red ****s are involved

And ****ing Alilililalalalalalaldiarhoea has to score! He's SHIT!

[spurs61]

Could have sworn we'd been in a final a few seasons back?! D'you know I also never really thought we'd win tonight. I just thought we might at least put in a positive performance for the fans and for pride.....

[Ginola's Son]

That final was 5 years ago, we'd seriously regressed after that, so, I think a first semi in 5 years is progress as opposed to what we'd become under Pleat.

[spurs61]

Decent teams played in run to semi-final? Struggled to out play several lower league teams?

You're right, we have progressed but it's soley due to a fairly sizeable chunk of cash being thrown around. To be honest I think what we've "achieved" so far is the very least we should expect. As I keep saying, we really haven't done anything more than Bolton or 'Boro have.

[Ginola's Son]

Well, Euro Football, a sustained Euro run, surely THAT's worth crowing about?

[choda]

I was working tonight. I came home and watched the highlights.

Here's what I think:

We were annihalated by a team of youngsters. They played us off the park.

Now, that display was as good as any Arsenal performance I've ever seen. I think over ten games their semi-second string is actually as good as the first team.

So that's the first thing to put in perspective. The second thing was that I thought tonight we showed more fight. We didn't show much quality, though. There wasn't enough courage to believe in OUR technical ability. That's what I thought. Arsenal on the other hand were in complete control of their touch and passing.

Whether they'd be like that for 60 games is another question, but that's irrelevant to us. Our team needs to learn to have the winning mentality to keep working hard AND the coruage to do the right things and play football.

I'm disappointed but I feel it is part of a learning curve for this team. Arsene has been grooming this setup for ten years now. He also inherited a very strong team to begin with.

In short, I don't agree with the doom and gloom merchants, and the people criticising Jol. I think these folks are wrong on both counts.

On a bright note, since Robbo has lost weight he is starting to get back to his best. And there IS a large and distinctive improvement in mobility, so it wasn't just something I and others were imagining.

[Gino Ginelli]

Well it never fails does it? Again my beloved Spurs have put me through the mill and left me with the usual numbing inevitibility. At 1-0 to the Arse, I saw the last 15 being a slow wimpering and rolling over as they got a couple more. At this point i was resigned to the familiar sense of dejection and would have gone to bed abject but calm.

But oh no...

My team just had to go and ensure that I experienced the full roller coster by actually playing a big man up front, with a central midfielder who can actually pass and score a rejuvenating equaliser. Suddenly I was on my feet crying "Midooooooooooooooooooo" and I now felt the elated sense that we might, dare I say it, WIN!

Extra time loomed, could this finally, finally be the day when dreams came true, we reached a final and defeated the sworn enemy on their new semi-plastic turf. We needed one goal, just One goal. Surely we'd go all out, Keano, Defoe, Mido, Hudd, raining shots and crosses on the Arse goal mouth? Surely?

No.

For some reason we had a sudden attack of the "Eriksson's" and we were sitting back, giving them space, encouraging them on and, bizzarly, putting into practice the controversial "head the ball on the ground" approach of defending. In essence... it all went tits up. We DID roll over and die, and in the end I'm left again with the exauhsted frustration and anger of another Spurs capitulation in a cup. Bugger.

Well... on to the players review:

Robbo - Relatively underworked for 1st half, but produced some fine and important stops as the pressure mounted. Is shaking off the dodgyness I feel.
Chimbonda - Very effective on the attack and stopped Adebayor for the most part. Did well.
Dawson - Giant for the most part. Was forced to leave Adebayor to close down Rosicky which let him in. Did well.
Gardner - Mostly fine, but made some ridiculous challenges, coming all the way out and got booked. Generally did well.
Ekotto - Was strong last night and cleaned up well at the back. Still prone to drifting in and leaving space on his flank, and still misplaces passes.
Gahly - Good on the ball and beat a few players, but loses it too cheaply, and his final ball needs work.
Zokora - Complete waste of blood and organs. DM should track the opposition AM, eg. Rosicky, and cover his defenders. He doesn't, giving Rosicky tons of time and space on the edge of OUR box, forcing Daws to leave his man. This = goal. He is also incapable of completing a constructive pass. Shite.
Jenas - Ran tirelessly and was good on the ball, making tackles... for about 40 minutes. Don't think he came out after half time. I didn't see him anyway. Back to his best then! :mad: Good cross for the goal mind.
Steed - Ran his bollocks off again, nearly scored a header. HAS to stay in his LM position though, we leave way too much space there.
Defoe - Who? Only saw him when he was offside or breaking Senderos' leg.
Robbie - Again who? Only saw him when he was waving his arms around bitching.

Rocha - Well. Looked terrific. Probably still is. But MUST clear the ball with his foot when its ON THE ****ING GROUND!!!
Hudd - Instant impact with distribution. ****ed off again in extra time.
Mido - Was out to prove point and did. Should have been on from the start. Scored good header and had a good couple of efforts.

Well, needn't say any more. Here's too improved success in the UEFA cup and the FA cup. Wouldn't hold out for the league too much now.

Cheers :cool:

[suBerb]

I stick to my prediction that we are going to play two finals this season. Still, it's a shame that we are behind Reading in the league. We are financially several times better than they are.

[Welsh Spur]

Don't worry lads.....it's Man United next. Another home defeat then.....:confused:

[spurs61]

Doubless Jol will play the same gutless and one dimensional tactics again. I've changed my mind about him.....we've basically got to make a desicion now; do we want to see Martin Jol at the Lane next season or do we want to see Lennon, Berbatov, King, Keane and our other better player? It is looking increasingly likely that this is the choice the board have to make now. Our next 5 games after Man U are against sides we should be beating comfortably, I'm willing to bet right now that we struggle against all of them. And some of you will still blame the players...

[Spur]

Doubless Jol will play the same gutless and one dimensional tactics again. I've changed my mind about him.....we've basically got to make a desicion now; do we want to see Martin Jol at the Lane next season or do we want to see Lennon, Berbatov, King, Keane and our other better player? It is looking increasingly likely that this is the choice the board have to make now. Our next 5 games after Man U are against sides we should be beating comfortably, I'm willing to bet right now that we struggle against all of them. And some of you will still blame the players...

Because the players are to blame! It sums it all up when I ask the question - how many of our players have looked good this season? How many genuinely come out of the season with any credit?

I'm not saying Jol is perfect, I have my own criticism's of him, but the way we can play because sometimes we do is not one of them. That criticism belongs to the players.

[Ginola's Son]

Well it never fails does it? Again my beloved Spurs have put me through the mill and left me with the usual numbing inevitibility. At 1-0 to the Arse, I saw the last 15 being a slow wimpering and rolling over as they got a couple more. At this point i was resigned to the familiar sense of dejection and would have gone to bed abject but calm.

But oh no...

My team just had to go and ensure that I experienced the full roller coster by actually playing a big man up front, with a central midfielder who can actually pass and score a rejuvenating equaliser. Suddenly I was on my feet crying "Midooooooooooooooooooo" and I now felt the elated sense that we might, dare I say it, WIN!

Extra time loomed, could this finally, finally be the day when dreams came true, we reached a final and defeated the sworn enemy on their new semi-plastic turf. We needed one goal, just One goal. Surely we'd go all out, Keano, Defoe, Mido, Hudd, raining shots and crosses on the Arse goal mouth? Surely?

No.

For some reason we had a sudden attack of the "Eriksson's" and we were sitting back, giving them space, encouraging them on and, bizzarly, putting into practice the controversial "head the ball on the ground" approach of defending. In essence... it all went tits up. We DID roll over and die, and in the end I'm left again with the exauhsted frustration and anger of another Spurs capitulation in a cup. Bugger.

Well... on to the players review:

Robbo - Relatively underworked for 1st half, but produced some fine and important stops as the pressure mounted. Is shaking off the dodgyness I feel.
Chimbonda - Very effective on the attack and stopped Adebayor for the most part. Did well.
Dawson - Giant for the most part. Was forced to leave Adebayor to close down Rosicky which let him in. Did well.
Gardner - Mostly fine, but made some ridiculous challenges, coming all the way out and got booked. Generally did well.
Ekotto - Was strong last night and cleaned up well at the back. Still prone to drifting in and leaving space on his flank, and still misplaces passes.
Gahly - Good on the ball and beat a few players, but loses it too cheaply, and his final ball needs work.
Zokora - Complete waste of blood and organs. DM should track the opposition AM, eg. Rosicky, and cover his defenders. He doesn't, giving Rosicky tons of time and space on the edge of OUR box, forcing Daws to leave his man. This = goal. He is also incapable of completing a constructive pass. Shite.
Jenas - Ran tirelessly and was good on the ball, making tackles... for about 40 minutes. Don't think he came out after half time. I didn't see him anyway. Back to his best then! Good cross for the goal mind.
Steed - Ran his bollocks off again, nearly scored a header. HAS to stay in his LM position though, we leave way too much space there.
Defoe - Who? Only saw him when he was offside or breaking Senderos' leg.
Robbie - Again who? Only saw him when he was waving his arms around bitching.

Rocha - Well. Looked terrific. Probably still is. But MUST clear the ball with his foot when its ON THE ****ING GROUND!!!
Hudd - Instant impact with distribution. ****ed off again in extra time.
Mido - Was out to prove point and did. Should have been on from the start. Scored good header and had a good couple of efforts.

Well, needn't say any more. Here's too improved success in the UEFA cup and the FA cup. Wouldn't hold out for the league too much now.


Nice post mate. Sums up most of my feelings.

Jenas though. His general attitude to this game was atrocious. He really looked like he didnt give a shit. Keane and Defoe were anonymous because the service was anonymous...what can you do without the service? The way Mido played against Southend, I wouldn't have started him. Defoe and Keane on paper should have far more invention IF they get that service, but because Jenas and Zokora were so lacadaisical in midfield, this service was not forthcoming. Steed could only do so much, but Arse identified him as the biggest threat and always closed him down

Anyone seen 'Glengarry Glen Ross' - To borrow a phrase from this film, Arsenal follow the 'ABC' method and we do not. ABC? - Always Be Closing!

We give teams, and thats all teams FAR FAR too much space. The lack of closing down is abominable!

[suBerb]

Because the players are to blame! It sums it all up when I ask the question - how many of our players have looked good this season? How many genuinely come out of the season with any credit?

I'm not saying Jol is perfect, I have my own criticism's of him, but the way we can play because sometimes we do is not one of them. That criticism belongs to the players.

Who does select the players? Who is responsible if our players do not play as good as they can? Look at Reading. How many of their players could walk in our first eleven?

It's a difficult period. Hopefully, good runs for the UEFA and FA cups will save the season. However, given the amount of money for new players and the current squad, we shouldn't have great problems to finish in top six. If we don't, the one to blame is Jol himself. We begin the second half of the season as bad as we began the first one. Hopefully, we will be as good in the remainig part of the season, as we were after the Besiktas game.

[Ginola's Son]

The buck stops with Jol unfortunatly. Can't deny that. But I just won't entertain cries to remove him.

[JuicE]

It was thrown away! Simple as that. he has done the best he can and i cannot see him taking this club any further. Of course he won't be sacked and probably rightly so, but he won't progress much and Spurs will be a mediocre club again for the next 5 to 10 years because of it! :(

[olly27]

Sadly though, according to the players that wasn't the plan tactically. The players just mentally did it themselves. That attitude is something that will develop in time, but it's not really something you can force players to do.

thats why there's a technical area..for Jol to shout and issue instructions..to reshape the side...and get them to push up...

[JuicE]

All this talk of sacking is stupid!

There's a ****ing good oppurtunity for a hanging and were gonna miss it i know we will! :rolleyes:

[olly27]

I don't think you can blame the coach. The players showed they are willing to play because they did it for ten minutes. If it were the coach then they wouldn't have done it at all.

The best description is gutless - again. You can't blame a coach for being gutless. You blame the players for not putting their shift in - which very few of them have done.

Of course not many of you will see it that way. You view it bad performance = bad management.

thats nonsense...i always maintained that sometimes his tactics are questionable...and dont help us...i never for one minute said they were soley responsible for our demise :cool:

[spurs61]

thats why there's a technical area..for Jol to shout and issue instructions..to reshape the side...and get them to push up...


No, no Olly, that's the players fault as well. :rolleyes: Clearly nothing to do with Jol, it's not his job to motivate the players or to select the right tactics he gets paid to be all nicey nicey in press conferences. Why should Jol issue instructions and reshape the side, surely the players should be doing that and then letting Jol take all of the credit for pulling off a tactical master-stroke? :rolleyes: And if it doesn't work then it's easy for Jol to point the finger of balme at the players;

"They were tired, er it was their fault that we sat back and got outplayed. I tried to tell them to push forward but they ignored me. Mido has been saying nasty things about me so I'm not going to play him. Aren't I jolly unlucky and a thoroughly nice bloke?" :mad:

[olly27]

one more point of note; why oh why didn't he start mido or at least bring him on earlier..i knew as soon as they scored he would make the change...he's reactive and not proactive..we were never gonna outplay arsenal with the ball on the deck..whats the one weakness arsenal have had this season? defending setpieces....and we didn't even try to exploit this from the start...then mido comes on..wouldn't you know it..he scores from a set piece..this goes back to my argument in this first leg..when mido should of been brought on as a like fo like replacement for berba..we may not have won overall..but my god it would of given us a much better chance...these in my eyes are tactical faults...we dont hold the ball well enough (against the better sides) to play it through to two small men upfront on the deck.....thats why it appeard that defoe and keane did nothing for the whole game....these things arnt as apparent when the opposition are vastly inferior....but playing better opposition it is even more crucial that we employ the right tactics..

[Chaydle]

Excellent point olly27, do you fancy a job!?

[Chaydle]

Ahh, just re-read that, doesn't quite sound right!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I mean to you fancy a job helping out BMJ..............phew!

[hastingsyid]

All i can say is if it wasnt for the die hard fans that support this team week in week out i think id ****ing give up

[spurs61]

one more point of note; why oh why didn't he start mido or at least bring him on earlier..i knew as soon as they scored he would make the change...he's reactive and not proactive..we were never gonna outplay arsenal with the ball on the deck..whats the one weakness arsenal have had this season? defending setpieces....and we didn't even try to exploit this from the start...then mido comes on..wouldn't you know it..he scores from a set piece..this goes back to my argument in this first leg..when mido should of been brought on as a like fo like replacement for berba..we may not have one overall..but my god it would of given us a much better chance...these in my eyes are tactical faults...we dont hold the ball well enough (against the better sides) to play it through to two small men upfront on the deck.....thats why it appeard that defoe and keane did nothing for the whole game....these things arnt as apparent when the opposition are vastly inferior....but playing better opposition it is even more crucial that we employ the right tactics..

Yeah, nice summary olly, pretty much as I saw it as well. Our tactics have been wrong from the first game this season and have rarely improved.

[olly27]

Ahh, just re-read that, doesn't quite sound right!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I mean to you fancy a job helping out BMJ..............phew!

..nothing is ever simple in football..i still love the big guy..it might not sound like it..but i do..i just hope that some of these things are put right :cool:

[olly27]

Yeah, nice summary olly, pretty much as I saw it as well. Our tactics have been wrong from the first game this season and have rarely improved.

another point to consider..as our stratgies/gameplans could been seen to be a bit negative..do you think this rubs off on our players and affects their belief and confidence?

[spurs61]

another point to consider..as our stratgies/gameplans could been seen to be a bit negative..do you think this rubs off on our players and affects their belief and confidence?

No! Really? You don't say!? Of course it does, as I stated earlier. It is pretty much impossible to motivate yourself if your boss gives you negative instructions. Especially if you know those instructuions are wrong but you still have to adhere to them.

[peterc]

I know we are all pissed off, but slating Defoe is just nonsense. When the team has been playing well he has scored, when we are shit he has not. It's not rocket science. How many sitters has he missed during this piss-poor spell? Not many I bet.

Defoe deserves all the slating he can get, it was okay to slate Mido to bits by many of the faithful supporters, who is Defoe, the living god of the Lane, he is not worth the mention, he has showed that he is not the prolific striker some of you think he is. Not only on the last game but on other ocassions. If I was Levy, I would have sold him to Portsmouth for £15 million and bought another decent striker.

[Ginola's Son]

He's scored a lot of goals this season. As I say, a striker needs service.

[spurs61]

He's scored a lot of goals this season. As I say, a striker needs service.

Agreed GS, I'm not even close to being Defoe's biggest fan but he has impressed me this season so far. I'd be very interested to know what people think Defoe should have done last night? As you said, he received no service and no support. As Mourinho said last season;

"Poor boy, I felt sorry for him."

[olly27]

Agreed GS, I'm not even close to being Defoe's biggest fan but he has impressed me this season so far. I'd be very interested to know what people think Defoe should have done last night? As you said, he received no service and no support. As Mourinho said last season;

"Poor boy, I felt sorry for him."

very simple isn't when your team doesn't have the ball its a bit hard...:)

[peterc]

He's scored a lot of goals this season. As I say, a striker needs service.

Sorry mate, if he scored so many goals, can't see his name near any of the top seven strikers in the Premiership.