Does Jol Need Help?

[spurs61]

Given that Saturday was the second game in a row that we have failed to beat ten-men opposition I believe the time has come to get Jol some tactical support. Throughout last season and this we have thrown away stupid points on numerous occasions and failed to beat teams we should have done. The Fulham game was yet another example of Jol not being able to alter the side to take advantage of our numerical advantage. On Saturday Jol threw on Keane and Lennon in an attempt to win the game, fair enough on the face of it. But clearly neither of these players were give specific instructions to stretch the game and make life difficult for Fulham. Instead we continued down the same methodical route we had followed all game with absolutely no success and no imagination; irrefutable evidence is the fact that Chimbonda’s goal was our only shot of note for the entire 90 minutes. This is not a new phenomenon and the negative and unimaginative tactics on display will not wholly surprise anyone who witnessed our callow performance at Sunderland last season.

So it seems to me that something has to change if this side is to realise its full potential. None of us wants or thinks that Jol has to go I hope but I strongly feel that he needs help on the tactical side of the team. I don’t think it would be a bad move to bring in a wise and experience head to guide and provide Martin with some tactical pointers both during games and on the training pitch.

[Shuggie13]

I see what you are saying but surely how much instructions do you need to give when throwing on Keane and Lennon. Arguably our two most creative players shouldn't need instructions, they should just play their game. The rest of the team shouldn't need instructions to get the ball to them.

I agree that at times Jol needs to be pro-active. However not beating ten men was down to the players not taking advantage, not Jol being tactically aware or giving instructions.

[Spur]

However not beating ten men was down to the players not taking advantage, not Jol being tactically aware or giving instructions.

Spot on.

Its obvious that the players aren't in top gear, rarely this season have they been. Unless of course Jol's tactical and motivational attributes increase for the games we win and decrease for those we lose :confused:

[wayne wonder]

The problem is Chris Hughton in my opinion granted he's part of the furniture etc but i dont think he's up to the task unlike a carlos quireoz etc

[Shuggie13]

In what way Wayne? Do you mean his input in training, or being a vocal outlet pitchside?

[wayne wonder]

In what way Wayne? Do you mean his input in training, or being a vocal outlet pitchside?

I thank his loyalty and stuff as he's spurs through and through but i dont think his tactical nouse is up to scratch.

Take manure quieroz does the training etc and has a major impact on tactics and team choices for some reason i dont think hughton's like that he's probably a more of a yes man.

Maybe im wrong and i hope i am but i reckon Clive Allen needs to be given more of a role as he's got the reserves purring right now this and last season.

[Shuggie13]

I think you may have a point there Wayne. Quieroz does have the advantage of managing sides, which is probably why Fergie wanted Jol as an assistant.

[spurs61]

I think you may have a point there Wayne. Quieroz does have the advantage of managing sides, which is probably why Fergie wanted Jol as an assistant.

But Fergie wanted Jol for his man manegement skills and to assist on the trainig pitch, the majority of the tactics are still conceived by Ferguson.

[wayne wonder]

But Fergie wanted Jol for his man manegement skills and to assist on the trainig pitch, the majority of the tactics are still conceived by Ferguson.

And thats why in my opinion Jol cant take us any further than we are as he's a more man manager than a tactical genius which Jose, Fergie and even though it pains me to say the ***** at the hemroids stadium.

Granted he's been our best boss since god knows when but how man times have we failed to beat 10men or win games we should have?

I like big martin probably more than i loved terry venables or pleat (1st time round) but he needs help asap i think.

[spurs61]

I see what you are saying but surely how much instructions do you need to give when throwing on Keane and Lennon. Arguably our two most creative players shouldn't need instructions, they should just play their game. The rest of the team shouldn't need instructions to get the ball to them.

In that case we don't need a manager at all? :confused: All players require some form of instruction unless they are given a free role like Ronaldinho. The managers' job during the 90 minutes is to analyse what is going on on the pitch and make adjustments accordingly. So either Lennon and Keane (just as an example) were not given any instructions and told to play their game, or they were given instructions which were incorrect. Either way it is not particularly inpressive and with our most important game of the season so far on Wednesday I expected a more positive approach in order to breed confidence. As it is we are going into the game on the back of a very poor run in the league and struggling against lower division opposition, surely a dream scenario for the goons?

[spurs61]

And thats why in my opinion Jol cant take us any further than we are as he's a more man manager than a tactical genius which Jose, Fergie and even though it pains me to say the ***** at the hemroids stadium.

Granted he's been our best boss since god knows when but how man times have we failed to beat 10men or win games we should have?

I like big martin probably more than i loved terry venables or pleat (1st time round) but he needs help asap i think.


Well it's nice to know I'm not the only one. I do really like Jol, we have progressed a remarkable amount in his tenure, but as you say he may have taken us as far as he can without some input from a more experienced and wily tactitian.

[olly27]

I like BMJ but would like to see him be more proactive than reactive. I know its up to the players to perform but there is still explicit instructions for specific games that players carry into these matches. It is any wonder that we have scored so few goals on the road this season? All are away games smell of negativity...trying to contain the oppostion which invites ridiculous amounts of pressure and inevitably we concede then start to attack! I am not saying we should be going in gung-ho and having no sort of game plan..what I am saying is to be more positive..not cavalier..but to get after the opposition more and attack them..seems obvious!...I know BMJ had one eye on wednesdays game..and his team selection wasn't that bad given the likely nature of the affair;physical and scrappy...but why not start lennon?..panic them from the off..inject pace into the game early on and really unsettle them..instead we allow them to settle infront of their own fans and they become more confident..then we sit off them and invite them on to us for the majority of the game!...being realistic I would like to see us scrap harder and attack with more desire and purpose in away fixtures..I almost get the feeling BMJ would take a point before every away game...am sorry but if we want to be consistently a top 6 side it does involve winning some away games....6 we won last year....we'll be lucky to win 3 this year at this rate...:)

[wayne wonder]

Well it's nice to know I'm not the only one. I do really like Jol, we have progressed a remarkable amount in his tenure, but as you say he may have taken us as far as he can without some input from a more experienced and wily tactitian.

I thought it many times last season granted we are probably the most fickle fans in the world and when we got 5th we're moning etc and now we're moaning about him etc. But i dont see it like that many times on the road we've gone to contain more than win the match and i think we need to be more flexible away from home and actually go and win games.

Yesterday fergie pulled a masterstroke with his tactics by playing larsson by himself, rooney left, ronaldo right and giggs pushing up behind. The scum couldn't cope and even ***** said. EVERYONE knows how we play and because we have no width it's easy to suss and we cant change mid game like the mancs do and it does my head in.

[wayne wonder]

I think away from home or even at home we have the players to go 4-3-3 or 3 at the back i think chombonda would make an excellent centre back alongside daws, ledders.

[MiloMinderbinder]

I think away from home or even at home we have the players to go 4-3-3 or 3 at the back i think chombonda would make an excellent centre back alongside daws, ledders.

Fine in theory, in pratcise, there would be even less width than we have now.

[wayne wonder]

Fine in theory, in pratcise, there would be even less width than we have now.

True mate but i was saying we're not flexible enough to change formations as we're too rigid.

I think the only time we have was when we played chelski and we all know what happened there :cool:

[MiloMinderbinder]

True mate but i was saying we're not flexible enough to change formations as we're too rigid.

I think the only time we have was when we played chelski and we all know what happened there :cool:

We were more or less playing 4-5-1 on that glorious day, with Keano butchering the rightbacks (2 of them cos they couldn't cope!) all day. Perhaps that's a formation which could be employed for away games, but my 1st change would be to play Mido away from home as Berba looks disinterested away from home.

[wayne wonder]

We were more or less playing 4-5-1 on that glorious day, with Keano butchering the rightbacks (2 of them cos they couldn't cope!) all day. Perhaps that's a formation which could be employed for away games, but my 1st change would be to play Mido away from home as Berba looks disinterested away from home.

Yes exactly!! oh what a day that was still brings a smile to my face when i see lennon's goal on sky it has to be the best match so far this season.

Yeah i totally agree with you berbs dont cut it away in the league i'd have robbie and mido away from home as jd's too lightweight

[hastingsyid]

After the amount i drank lastnight i defo need help

[JJ]

I don't think he does. You can tell the players whatever you want before they get on the pitch. If the team isn't playing any football, then instructions are useless.

[DonJolSpurano]

so martin jol needs help...from who?

You?

absolute bollocks!!!

damn it, we have a slight drop in form and its all 'jump ship' and question the best boss we've had since burks.

Ledders is a big miss, as is JJ. the sooner these two are back, the sooner our form will pick up again. the leader of the team in defense and the tireless midfield runner who's attacking impetus we've sorely missed from the centre/

[spurs61]

so martin jol needs help...from who?

You?

absolute bollocks!!!

damn it, we have a slight drop in form and its all 'jump ship' and question the best boss we've had since burks.

Ledders is a big miss, as is JJ. the sooner these two are back, the sooner our form will pick up again. the leader of the team in defense and the tireless midfield runner who's attacking impetus we've sorely missed from the centre/

A slight drop in form? Is that what you'd call this season?

Sometimes I wonder why I bother, I guess you'll just read whatever you want to read and dismiss any other thoughts out of hand. Yeah, Jenas has provided real attacking impetus whenever he's payed, scoring loads of goals and providing a hatful of assists. :rolleyes:

Nobody has questioned Jols' position as a manger, I have just suggested that he needs help in the tactical department as is evidence from our last two games. Frankly if you can't see what I and a fair proportion of season ticket holders see, then maybe you should watch more games in their entirety rather than ten minutes of highlights on MOTD.

[MiloMinderbinder]

A slight drop in form? Is that what you'd call this season?

Sometimes I wonder why I bother, I guess you'll just read whatever you want to read and dismiss any other thoughts out of hand. Yeah, Jenas has provided real attacking impetus whenever he's payed, scoring loads of goals and providing a hatful of assists. :rolleyes:

Nobody has questioned Jols' position as a manger, I have just suggested that he needs help in the tactical department as is evidence from our last two games. Frankly if you can't see what I and a fair proportion of season ticket holders see, then maybe you should watch more games in their entirety rather than ten minutes of highlights on MOTD.

oooh get you, slightly uncalled for, but sadly, I can't pick any holes in your argument other than you forget to mention the continual lapse in playing dogeater game in game out (even though he has improved (slightly) of late.

[spurs61]

Yeah maybe over the top but when one attempts to introduce an adult debate it's rather annoying when a so called fan dismisses a well thought out argument with the words "absolute bollocks". Nice argument there, beautifully articualted and meticulously planned.

[TomMcLaren]

Question: I haven't seen the game, why did he do a straight swap for Defoe? Wouldn't 4-3-3 have been a better switch?

[MiloMinderbinder]

Question: I haven't seen the game, why did he do a straight swap for Defoe? Wouldn't 4-3-3 have been a better switch?

Only if you hadn't seen the Newcastle game, when Jol introduced Keane into the fray we essentially had 3 players all trying to take up the same space, they effectively got in each others way.

The way to open up a ten man time is by stretching them by using the entire width of the pitch, which is obviously our serious weak point at present.

[spurs61]

Question: I haven't seen the game, why did he do a straight swap for Defoe? Wouldn't 4-3-3 have been a better switch?

Hooray, another fan with at some tactical sense! What we should have done is stretch the game, drag the defenders around and create space. We, on the other hand, narrowed the pitch and knocked long balls from front to back. :mad: :( :confused:

[MiloMinderbinder]

Hooray, another fan with at some tactical sense! What we should have done is stretch the game, drag the defenders around and create space. We, on the other hand, narrowed the pitch and knocked long balls from front to back. :mad: :( :confused:

ECHO, ECHo, ECho, Echo, echo, ech....

[JJ]

Only if you hadn't seen the Newcastle game, when Jol introduced Keane into the fray we essentially had 3 players all trying to take up the same space, they effectively got in each others way.

The way to open up a ten man time is by stretching them by using the entire width of the pitch, which is obviously our serious weak point at present.

Not if they're playing 4-4-1. The midfield and defence is no less wide, so attacking down the wings doesn't become any easier at all.

It's on the defenders to bring the ball forward to draw in the Fulham midfield and open up some space, and Dawson and Gardner are no ball carriers.

[wayne wonder]

Hooray, another fan with at some tactical sense! What we should have done is stretch the game, drag the defenders around and create space. We, on the other hand, narrowed the pitch and knocked long balls from front to back. :mad: :( :confused:

If we're gonna play 4-3-3 we have to play lennon on one side and keano/defoe on the otherside with berbs/mido in the middle. Deffo play mido away from home or play him and berbs and berbs can drop deep and link play

[canadaspur]

Hooray, another fan with at some tactical sense! What we should have done is stretch the game, drag the defenders around and create space. We, on the other hand, narrowed the pitch and knocked long balls from front to back. :mad: :( :confused:

which actually goes to a more fundamental question...have we had any kind of 'dip in form'?I think not,I see the same as last season,just less points for it at the moment.Same problems of width,lack of left side creativity,spotty striking,too much slow lateral & backwards passing...perhaps the defence & Robbo a bit more vulnerable than last year.I think we've been 'found out' a bit more,we don't like teams getting in our faces,so of course more of them do it!

[Gino Ginelli]

Maybe there is some lack of tactical nous, but I think the main problem could be that a few players need to get their finger out and concentrate on what their doing. Like completing passes and keeping your eye on who you're marking.

[wayne wonder]

Not if they're playing 4-4-1. The midfield and defence is no less wide, so attacking down the wings doesn't become any easier at all.

It's on the defenders to bring the ball forward to draw in the Fulham midfield and open up some space, and Dawson and Gardner are no ball carriers.

That's why we miss ledders so much because he does carry the ball and daws just whacks it out :( and as for bambi (gardner) im not even gonna waste my time on that c*ck unless he scores 2 against the scummers THEN and only then will i forgive that he's a wank footballer.

[MiloMinderbinder]

Not if they're playing 4-4-1. The midfield and defence is no less wide, so attacking down the wings doesn't become any easier at all.

It's on the defenders to bring the ball forward to draw in the Fulham midfield and open up some space, and Dawson and Gardner are no ball carriers.

Yeah, I know, but so do the oppositon and will guard against being drawn out, which is why in the cirumstances you would have to widen the pitch. It's not neccesarily the avenue to attack but once you have widened the pitch you will create space in the centre, as long as you have the players to spot and pick the right pass.

The cliche about 10 men being harder to beat does ring true as they will concentrate and work harder. Something about a little "pain" that concentrates the mind.

[JJ]

Maybe there is some lack of tactical nous, but I think the main problem could be that a few players need to get their finger out and concentrate on what their doing. Like completing passes and keeping your eye on who you're marking.

Yup, i would definately put it down to slack play ahead of tactical problems.

[wayne wonder]

Yup, i would definately put it down to slack play ahead of tactical problems.

And the 2 biggest culprits for that no make that 3 are Zokora, Ghaly and Jenas

[spurs61]

ECHO, ECHo, ECho, Echo, echo, ech....

****, ****, ****! :p

[JJ]

Yeah, I know, but so do the oppositon and will guard against being drawn out, which is why in the cirumstances you would have to widen the pitch. It's not neccesarily the avenue to attack but once you have widened the pitch you will create space in the centre, as long as you have the players to spot and pick the right pass.

The cliche about 10 men being harder to beat does ring true as they will concentrate and work harder. Something about a little "pain" that concentrates the mind.

Yeah, the movement wasn't good enough. The conditions didn't help. People kept saying that the grass was too long, and that the wind affected the movement of the ball quite heavily.

These all sound like excuses, but they will contribute to a poor performance. Then again poor performances away aren't exactly a shock these days.

[JJ]

And the 2 biggest culprits for that no make that 3 are Zokora, Ghaly and Jenas

Generally yeah.

Ghaly tries a bit too much sometimes, i have no doubt that he's capable of beating people but it gets a bit silly.

Zokora, although an absolute athlete, seems to have very little composure unless running with the ball. Which is odd as you would think that it was more difficult then controlling and passing the ball while standing still.

And Jenas is probably the most frustrating of them all (in my opinion) as he seems to have alot of talent, but just seems to play with very little confidence.

Then Huddlestone switches off sometimes, plays passes blind, loses his man.

And that's just those players, everyone is guilty of it in patches.

It's all little things which add up to very scrappy and inconsistent football. We're still trying to figure out the best system for us to play, and it's a long process.

[MiloMinderbinder]

Yeah, the movement wasn't good enough. The conditions didn't help. People kept saying that the grass was too long, and that the wind affected the movement of the ball quite heavily.

These all sound like excuses, but they will contribute to a poor performance. Then again poor performances away aren't exactly a shock these days.

as the cliche goes, the condition/pitch was the same for both teams.

Did anyone see the damning stat in the Times this week, we have conceeded 30 goals this season, nearly 1/3 of which (9/30) are form outside the area, the paper then questions whether Robbo is culpable and if he should be both Spurs and England number 1 - interesting.

[spurs61]

which actually goes to a more fundamental question...have we had any kind of 'dip in form'?I think not,I see the same as last season,just less points for it at the moment.Same problems of width,lack of left side creativity,spotty striking,too much slow lateral & backwards passing...perhaps the defence & Robbo a bit more vulnerable than last year.I think we've been 'found out' a bit more,we don't like teams getting in our faces,so of course more of them do it!

I agree entirely my Canuck friend. All the points you have raised have been weighing on my mind since last seson. In particular I feel that we move the ball on too slowly; it allows the oposition to shut down any space and does not play to our forwards strengths (pace and guile). The lack of a left side and leader is well documented, the pace which we play the game is not. efectively we play in the same way that Jols' RKC side played. What Jol needs to finally grasp is that a) this is a much quicker and more physical league b) teams do not roll over and die when they are a goal or two down, they continue to fight until the last c) we need a genuine on-field leader and a hardman d) the vast majority of the players need to demonstrate more passion and commitment. It's all well and good saying you're "gutted" after performances such as Newcastle but we're sick of it! If our players (in general) showed as much desire as their opponents they wouldn't need to be "gutted" in the first place.

[MiloMinderbinder]

****, ****, ****! :p

just cos you're incapable of independent thought you suburban working ****, always stealing ideas from us city folk!

[Gino Ginelli]

There's also there's the issue of us doing so well due to the lack of other competitions to play in. This season we're in 4 competitions so almost twice the games, and we haven't the squad to cope with it. As a result our league form has dipped, but I'll take mid table if it means UEFA cup success.

I would also point out that our midfield is almost entirely different this year, and we still haven't settled on what our ideal line up is.

[wayne wonder]

Generally yeah.

Ghaly tries a bit too much sometimes, i have no doubt that he's capable of beating people but it gets a bit silly.

Zokora, although an absolute athlete, seems to have very little composure unless running with the ball. Which is odd as you would think that it was more difficult then controlling and passing the ball while standing still.

And Jenas is probably the most frustrating of them all (in my opinion) as he seems to have alot of talent, but just seems to play with very little confidence.

Then Huddlestone switches off sometimes, plays passes blind, loses his man.

And that's just those players, everyone is guilty of it in patches.

It's all little things which add up to very scrappy and inconsistent football. We're still trying to figure out the best system for us to play, and it's a long process.

People might have a go but i think the problem with the hudd is that he's like rio ferdinand he's that good that he looks lazy on the picth and we take that as a negative but the boy is that good and does try too many hollywood passes now and again.

Jenas plays within himself and he really needs to start sorting his shit out asap the guys more than an athlete than say david platt but yet platt scored a shed load of goals.

As for ghaly im not sure yet about the lad

[spurs61]

[QUOTE=Gino Ginelli;36456]This season we're in 4 competitions so almost twice the games, and we haven't the squad to cope with it. QUOTE]

We've got probably the biggest squad in the league! We (should) have two players for every position so I won't hear this as an excuse. It's true to say that our defence is threadbare at the moment but that's down to the management. Most of us recognised prior to the seasons begining that we only had two quality centre halves, it should have been addressed months ago.

[wayne wonder]

We need to be stronger in midfield we've not got the fight in the middle of the park hence the reason why we get overrun

Get scott parker in i say

[spurs61]

Get scott parker in i say

Hmmm, said that when the barcodes signed him! Interestingly I heard a rumour that we have contacted Newcastle regarding Duff, apparenlty he's not happy there and wants to move to Spurs. I'm told he wanted to come here all along but Chelsea refused to sell him to us.

[MiloMinderbinder]

Hmmm, said that when the barcodes signed him! Interestingly I heard a rumour that we have contacted Newcastle regarding Duff, apparenlty he's not happy there and wants to move to Spurs. I'm told he wanted to come here all along but Chelsea refused to sell him to us.

Duff said he cried the day he left Chel$ki, I thought it was cos he had to live in Newcastle but maybe it's cos he was denied his favoured move.

[wayne wonder]

Hmmm, said that when the barcodes signed him! Interestingly I heard a rumour that we have contacted Newcastle regarding Duff, apparenlty he's not happy there and wants to move to Spurs. I'm told he wanted to come here all along but Chelsea refused to sell him to us.


I'd give them ghaly, murhpy, mido and lee and what the heck throw in stalteri and gardner for parker and duff!!

Chelski are ****s and thats the reason why i hate them!!

[Billywhizz]

Generally yeah.
Then Huddlestone switches off sometimes, plays passes blind, loses his man.
play, and it's a long process.

Yep!!! he is guilty of that sometimes, he needs to be on the button for wednesday night or Fibreglass will have a field day, I thought The Manure midfield done a good job on him yesterday. How many times did the scum hit long balls to Sadebayor, by-passing Fibreglass

[spurs61]

I'd give them ghaly, murhpy, mido and lee and what the heck throw in stalteri and gardner for parker and duff!!

Sounds like a fair deal if you ask me! :D I'd swap them AND change places in the league! If we could sign those two players in addition to a proper centre half we'd be close to challenging for the last Champions League spot next season.

[canadaspur]

Yep!!! he is guilty of that sometimes, he needs to be on the button for wednesday night or Fibreglass will have a field day, I thought The Manure midfield done a good job on him yesterday. How many times did the scum hit long balls to Sadebayor, by-passing Fibreglass

yep,started to look like us booting it towards Jermain the Midget & thus losing the ball!

[wayne wonder]

Sounds like a fair deal if you ask me! :D I'd swap them AND change places in the league! If we could sign those two players in addition to a proper centre half we'd be close to challenging for the last Champions League spot next season.

I'd take that too! Parker and, Gamst or duff and if only woodgate could stay injury free i'd snap him up

[spurs61]

Yep!!! he is guilty of that sometimes, he needs to be on the button for wednesday night or Fibreglass will have a field day, I thought The Manure midfield done a good job on him yesterday. How many times did the scum hit long balls to Sadebayor, by-passing Fibreglass

Mmmm, I have to say from what little I saw of the game, Fabregas was quietly awesome. I'm sorry, but he's the best young talent I've EVER seen. I'm just SICK that he plays for the scum, he was born to wear a Spurs shirt! The Times compared him to Ardiles in his pomp, I don't think that's too far from the mark and he's only 19!!!!!!!! I think I'm going to cry. :( :o :(

[MiloMinderbinder]

Mmmm, I have to say from what little I saw of the game, Fabregas was quietly awesome. I'm sorry, but he's the best young talent I've EVER seen. I'm just SICK that he plays for the scum, he was born to wear a Spurs shirt! The Times compared him to Ardiles in his pomp, I don't think that's too far from the mark and he's only 19!!!!!!!! I think I'm going to cry. :( :o :(

Yep, he's not Fibreglass he's Fabulous, I hate the scum for having him, and Fran Merida is meant to be better:eek:

He ran things yesterday, very much in the manner that Veron ran things in his pomp (yes even for Man U it's just our press have no idea what they are watching)

[Billywhizz]

Mmmm, I have to say from what little I saw of the game, Fabregas was quietly awesome. I'm sorry, but he's the best young talent I've EVER seen. I'm just SICK that he plays for the scum, he was born to wear a Spurs shirt! The Times compared him to Ardiles in his pomp, I don't think that's too far from the mark and he's only 19!!!!!!!! I think I'm going to cry. :( :o :(

Yep!!! I agree he's a great young talent, but as for yesterday Carrick & Scholes kept him at arms length, i can't remember him running in behind which he does, at one time they were so narrow that peado Wenger was pulling Sadebayor wide right, whilst Pleb went walk-a-bout and was tucking in. the scum play very narrow with no width hardly and peado knows this and ManUre sussed them yesterday, they fell a sleep with a give go which led to the winner and Ferdinand let Henry get a yard on him, which is dangerous to say the least.

[wayne wonder]

Yep!!! I agree he's a great young talent, but as for yesterday Carrick & Scholes kept him at arms length, i can't remember him running in behind which he does, at one time they were so narrow that peado Wenger was pulling Sadebayor wide right, whilst Pleb went walk-a-bout and was tucking in. the scum play very narrow with no width hardly and peado knows this and ManUre sussed them yesterday, they fell a sleep with a give go which led to the winner and Ferdinand let Henry get a yard on him, which is dangerous to say the least.


Yeah Fabregas is a class act but still should get shot for playing for them!!

Manure know how to play scum well and they just switched off yesterday as they thought they had it in the bag which they should of

[JJ]

Mmmm, I have to say from what little I saw of the game, Fabregas was quietly awesome. I'm sorry, but he's the best young talent I've EVER seen. I'm just SICK that he plays for the scum, he was born to wear a Spurs shirt! The Times compared him to Ardiles in his pomp, I don't think that's too far from the mark and he's only 19!!!!!!!! I think I'm going to cry. :( :o :(

Yeah, he's a fantastic player. More composure than you would think is humanly possible at that age.

[Billywhizz]

Yeah Fabregas is a class act but still should get shot for playing for them!!

Manure know how to play scum well and they just switched off yesterday as they thought they had it in the bag which they should of

Wayne, any good with a sniper's rifle, only it can be arranged.............;) ;)

[MiloMinderbinder]

Wayne, any good with a sniper's rifle, only it can be arranged.............;) ;)

err, try asking spurs61, you may get somewhere!

Oh shit, sorry 61, they'll know where to look now.

[spurs61]

£5,000 no questions asked.

Although I'm sure I could find a Spurs supporting assassin who'd do it for the fun and blaze of publicity.

[wayne wonder]

£5,000 no questions asked.

Although I'm sure I could find a Spurs supporting assassin who'd do it for the fun and blaze of publicity.

Well if thats the case forget fabregas just get *****!!!:p

[MiloMinderbinder]

£5,000 no questions asked.

Although I'm sure I could find a Spurs supporting assassin who'd do it for the fun and blaze of publicity.

I killed the President of Paraguay with a fork.....

[SurreySpur]

I killed the President of Paraguay with a fork.....

Ahhh Grosse Pointe Blank, Great Film.

[MiloMinderbinder]

Ahhh Grosse Pointe Blank, Great Film.

I would have killed the President of Iraq....but he got tired of hanging around :rolleyes:

[canadaspur]

I would have killed the President of Iraq....but he got tired of hanging around :rolleyes:

an oubliette has no etiquette.

[MiloMinderbinder]

an oubliette has no etiquette.

sorry, I forget what your talking about....

[spurs61]

Oh shit, sorry 61, they'll know where to look now.

Strangely I'm not in the phone book under "spurs61" so they might have a hard time tracking me down; that and the fact that I am a master of disguise.

[SurreySpur]

Strangely I'm not in the phone book under "spurs61" so they might have a hard time tracking me down; that and the fact that I am a master of disguise.

Just Like Inspector Clouseau?

[suBerb]

Mmmm, I have to say from what little I saw of the game, Fabregas was quietly awesome. I'm sorry, but he's the best young talent I've EVER seen. I'm just SICK that he plays for the scum, he was born to wear a Spurs shirt! The Times compared him to Ardiles in his pomp, I don't think that's too far from the mark and he's only 19!!!!!!!! I think I'm going to cry. :( :o :(

The 18 y.o. Messi was more impressive in the game vs Chelsea imo. He was the man of the match in the presence of Ronaldinho, Eto'o, Deco, Lampard, Terry, Robben etc. Fabregas is brilliant but still far from the 20 y.o. Diego Armando. I saw the young genius in a game against Austria in Vienna. He scored 4 goals and made all their defenders looking ridiculous. No player could ever dream of his dribbling skills. He was only 20. Unbelievable.

[spurs61]

Yup, Messi is on a par with Fabregas in terms of talent although they're very different players.

I laughed my arse off reading your comparison with the Great One! It's a bit like comparing a Robin Reliant with an F1 car! I think it should be against the laws of the game to compare anyone with Maradona.

[suBerb]

Yup, Messi is on a par with Fabregas in terms of talent although they're very different players.

I laughed my arse off reading your comparison with the Great One! It's a bit like comparing a Robin Reliant with an F1 car! I think it should be against the laws of the game to compare anyone with Maradona.

Ha-ha-ha, you are damn right. I would add the 20 y.o. Ronaldo at Barcelona. He was absolutely fabulous and finished the season with 46 goals in all competitions for Barca and 6-7 goals for Brasil. I thought that he was going to overshadow Pele. Then he made the huge mistake to move to Seria A...

[JJ]

Ha-ha-ha, you are damn right. I would add the 20 y.o. Ronaldo at Barcelona. He was absolutely fabulous and finished the season with 46 goals in all competitions for Barca and 6-7 goals for Brasil. I thought that he was going to overshadow Pele. Then he made the huge mistake to move to Seria A...

Yeah. He was literally unstoppable.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xKZ7V-iOlE

[bocayid]

last time i looked Mr Jol,had us 8th in the premiership..(season aint over yet)...semis of carling cup,last 32 of uefa cup and prob further cos of feyenoord ban....and still in FA cup.....for ****s sake people....

[highlander]

Although he has been our best manager for a long time, i can see the point people are making with Jol's tactical ineptitude. this is why Jol was origionally bought in as an assistant to Santini who is a tactically sound manager. perhaps a greater tactician should be bought in if we are to make the step up, someone like Marcello Lippi would be nice but i dont know how the situation would work, who would be the manager, would Jol stand for being demoted to assistant etc etc etc. i think things are best left the way they are for the time being

[canadaspur]

last time i looked Mr Jol,had us 8th in the premiership..(season aint over yet)...semis of carling cup,last 32 of uefa cup and prob further cos of feyenoord ban....and still in FA cup.....for ****s sake people....

strong,but not compelling arguments,we're going nowhere in the league(even 6th is unlikely)so we have to win a Cup or make the FA Cup Final to get into Europe next season...if we thought losing 4th on the last day of last season was bad,missing any Euro qualification is a fkuc of a lot worse!

[JuicE]

How about? If we win a cup or two or maybe qualify for the CL, we keep him. If we win nothing and finsih 8th we sack him?

Fickle? :confused:

[Spur]

So Jol is tactically inept and poor man manager - you do realise he took a team with shit players and no money and won the cup in his previous job. On the verge of Europe every season...no bells rung?

Santini was brought in because we needed a big name, Frankie wanted Jol - and apparently he still wants Jol at Chelsea. Funny that.

We have one of the most likeable and respected managers in the league. Whats to argue about? If you want someone to blame its the players.

I don't see one player on the pitch wearing a Spurs shirt who was here last season - they all look totally different.

Maybe it's the weight of expectancy coupled with injuries which have hit us hard. But no-one can deny we've played some great stuff this year, even if we have lost the White Hart Lane Fortress image.

[canadaspur]

Maybe it's the weight of expectancy coupled with injuries which have hit us hard. But no-one can deny we've played some great stuff this year, even if we have lost the White Hart Lane Fortress image.

along with the ability to play a competitive away game.

[JuicE]

Praise where praise is due and likewise for critisicm.
When Jol produces consistency and wins something and preferably often, then maybe he can be called a great manager. He has achieved a decent record but at a very inconsistent rate. He has been given a huge budget and should produce at least what he has. He has a long way to go before he can be called anything other than a nice guy trying hard to do well. Others have mentioned his lack of tactical awareness and he often shows this but he has to learn. He must also be able to take the critisicm that comes with playing under par. I hope he does well but he has a long way to go. A cup would help but it could all finish so badly still!

[Spur]

along with the ability to play a competitive away game.

Well that too.

When somethings wrong rarely is it one thing in particular. Generally speaking its an accumulation of events that happen/don't happen. I can't believe people are willing to question the manager for away games and not home games etc. Let's blame the assistant manager for no good reason. Where's the evidence he is anything other than a top bloke who will give his all for the club? If he was shit he wouldn't have made it to Assistant manager let alone stayed in coaching for 15 years!

This is where we get our fickle rep from, quick to blame and blame whoever is the easiest. We look at the dugout. We should be looking on the pitch at those who aren't performing. First and foremost its the players. And it's not even just the same players week in week out. Even Michael Dawson has been looking lazy lately.

We all see it in performances and we all know something is wrong, but from Jol's reaction to each goal we concede, to each point we drop he is feeling it the most.

When we score him and Chrissy H make me laugh and smile, top blokes wanting the best for the club. I'd say that Jol has become an adopted Yid, never playing for us but one of our own nonetheless.

There was actually an article called the Jol out campaign I saw earlier, or something similar. I didn't bother reading it because it would make me pissed off to be a Yid. Ashamed if anything.

[choda]

I believe what is going here is absolute gross impatience. Spur 62, a quite devilish but good poster is having another well timed rant. He spaces them out about two weeks and then has another whack at someone or a whack at those down the road. :D

Fair enough and we're all entitled to our opinions, but in my view, having a pop at Jol is unfair. The fact is he took a stable but distinctly average set of players two years ago. Since then it has been steady, if inconsistant (what else do you expect in football), climb towards europe and a better squad.

He, along with Levy and Comolli, continues to improve the club structure and the squad. It's all there in a blueprint for the continuation of the improvement.

That everything doesn't go your way immediately doesn't mean he is making gross errors, as I think is being implied. The fact is, all I heard last year was how he was a tactical genius, as we were winning. When things are not going well, it's easy and reactionary to say his substitutions are tactically inept and so on.

A glance at the whole picture, in my view, tells a different story... and a rather good one about Martin Jol.

[JuicE]

Well Choda, Brother of Dick, Cock and Martin, I hope your not offering tactical advice on team selection. A Goalkeeper is always usefull.:p

[spurs61]

I believe what is going here is absolute gross impatience. Spur 62, a quite devilish but good poster is having another well timed rant. He spaces them out about two weeks and then has another whack at someone or a whack at those down the road. :D

Fair enough and we're all entitled to our opinions, but in my view, having a pop at Jol is unfair. The fact is he took a stable but distinctly average set of players two years ago. Since then it has been steady, if inconsistant (what else do you expect in football), climb towards europe and a better squad.

The fact is, all I heard last year was how he was a tactical genius, as we were winning. When things are not going well, it's easy and reactionary to say his substitutions are tactically inept and so on.

Is this aimed at Spus or me? :confused:

I don't think most of you guys have understood what I've been driving at. I love Jol as our coach, he has performed wonders and is a gentleman amongst theives. I happen to think that he is slightly out of his depth in terms of tactics; there is no shame in that when his fellow managers have been around at top level football for donkeys years. Big Mart has limited experience in comparison to Ferguson, Benitez or Wenger and will thus continue to be out thought by said coaches for some time to come. To counter act this I feel the club and the manager would be best served by bringing in a tactical specialist.

For the final time, I am not having "a pop" at Jol, it is constructive critisism, everyone has to learn from somebody and a year or two of guidance from a more experienced coach will stand Jol in good stead for what will hopefully be a long tenure as our coach.

[Billywhizz]

Is this aimed at Spus or me? :confused:

I don't think most of you guys have understood what I've been driving at. I love Jol as our coach, he has performed wonders and is a gentleman amongst theives. I happen to think that he is slightly out of his depth in terms of tactics; there is no shame in that when his fellow managers have been around at top level football for donkeys years. Big Mart has limited experience in comparison to Ferguson, Benitez or Wenger and will thus continue to be out thought by said coaches for some time to come. To counter act this I feel the club and the manager would be best served by bringing in a tactical specialist.

For the final time, I am not having "a pop" at Jol, it is constructive critisism, everyone has to learn from somebody and a year or two of guidance from a more experienced coach will stand Jol in good stead for what will hopefully be a long tenure as our coach.

Spurs61, maybe Venners would consider a roll as tactical specialist,did'nt he do something like that with Boro a few years ago, he's the only one who i can think of @ the moment who would give the above a run for there money.

[spurs61]

Spurs61, maybe Venners would consider a roll as tactical specialist,did'nt he do something like that with Boro a few years ago, he's the only one who i can think of @ the moment who would give the above a run for there money.

Bringing in Venables is not my idea of a tactical genius. Football has moved on from Venables time, which is evidence from his ill fated time at Portsmouth and Leeds. Sadly he's a bit of a dinosour now. He' also not welcome at the club given his dubious business dealings.

But, that is what I'm getting it, bringing in someone in that sort of advisory role can only benefit the team and ultimately Martin Jol himself.

[MiloMinderbinder]

Bringing in Venables is not my idea of a tactical genius. Football has moved on from Venables time, which is evidence from his ill fated time at Portsmouth and Leeds. Sadly he's a bit of a dinosour now. He' also not welcome at the club given his dubious business dealings.

But, that is what I'm getting it, bringing in someone in that sort of advisory role can only benefit the team and ultimately Martin Jol himself.

There is/was nothing dubious about Venables business dealings what so ever - he is an out and out thief, cheat and liar.

[wayne wonder]

I think we must be the most fickle fans after the spammers treatment of pardew when he 1st went there and they wanted him sacked.

I like Jol but i think Hughton should go and deal with the reserves and bring in Graham Roberts he'd make a great number 2

[hastingsyid]

I think we must be the most fickle fans after the spammers treatment of pardew when he 1st went there and they wanted him sacked.

I like Jol but i think Hughton should go and deal with the reserves and bring in Graham Roberts he'd make a great number 2

hastingsyid would make an even better no2:D

[wayne wonder]

hastingsyid would make an even better no2:D

haha you'd get sacked for kerb crawling :p

[hastingsyid]

haha you'd get sacked for kerb crawling :p

lol already been done for that:D

[wayne wonder]

lol already been done for that:D

hahaha ya tart

[hastingsyid]

hahaha ya tart

thats me alrite:D

[choda]

Is this aimed at Spus or me? :confused:

I don't think most of you guys have understood what I've been driving at. I love Jol as our coach, he has performed wonders and is a gentleman amongst theives. I happen to think that he is slightly out of his depth in terms of tactics; there is no shame in that when his fellow managers have been around at top level football for donkeys years. Big Mart has limited experience in comparison to Ferguson, Benitez or Wenger and will thus continue to be out thought by said coaches for some time to come. To counter act this I feel the club and the manager would be best served by bringing in a tactical specialist.

For the final time, I am not having "a pop" at Jol, it is constructive critisism, everyone has to learn from somebody and a year or two of guidance from a more experienced coach will stand Jol in good stead for what will hopefully be a long tenure as our coach.

Well I'm great at having a blow rant myself on occasions when I see fit, so I'm certainly not having a go at you mate. Hence even the smiley!

Our previous setup from 1990 to before Levy got it right was a joke, and yes, I will have a go at that all day long. We had nothing but shit ownership, shit managers and average teams. That's not inherently having a go at the club, as you were possibly hinting at.

I just think you are jumping the gun here, and calling Jol tactically inept is having a 'pop'. Constructive or not, it is a rather large criticism and that's how you set it up. That's why people took it that way.

If I was Levy anyway, I would not be venturing into the old sage market. I don't think it's appropriate for us. I don't see the tactical weaknesses you are referring to. I think the big man is very tactically aware.

I don't always see it as he does (I certainly wouldn't have left us so short of wingers), but that doesn't mean he is wrong and I am right. I think he's somone who has proven he has his way and it's a good way. I don't believe in absolutes.

And when things are glaringly wrong he does act, even if he's sometimes, in my view, slow to see the game after game obvious. The same can be said of Fergie. Some of his team selections (slivestre at cb, for instance) leave one wondering how the hell he has so many trophies, but then eventually he nearly bloody always gets to where he wants eventually.

I think many of us think we could do better, but it ain't easy, think of many things those guys have to think about!

In my opinion, what's really going on is that not everybody agrees on everything! And also EVERYBODY gets things wrong from time to time.

But I think we have one of the best managers. The time to judge him is at the end of this season and the end of next season. Then we will know for sure what is going on and what his ability is.

If he does fail then you can tell us you saw it earlier than us, but I really think it's premature to judge him. I think you maybe need to ask yourself if your just reacting to the fact that the progress is not going straight to where we want to go.

I think that bringing another guy in would only convolute a good structure, too many cooks. But maybe an old sage as number two. I wouldn't be adverse to that... possibly, if he knows his place. However, I think Jol knows what he is doing.

[fluke]

I think it's really obvious that we do not have a left side. This makes us really one dimensional and surely the management know it. I think this will be rectified but not untill next season. Let's just hope we get some more "byes" and win a cup without having to play away from the lane.

[JJ]

I think it's really obvious that we do not have a left side. This makes us really one dimensional and surely the management know it. I think this will be rectified but not untill next season. Let's just hope we get some more "byes" and win a cup without having to play away from the lane.

Very few teams in the league have a left side, not one worth having anyway. We can't pin too much on the fact we don't have an out and out left winger. The left back we can sort easier.

[choda]

I think it's really obvious that we do not have a left side. This makes us really one dimensional and surely the management know it. I think this will be rectified but not untill next season. Let's just hope we get some more "byes" and win a cup without having to play away from the lane.

I was referring to more than that, as he has tried to sort that. And it's not a huge problem unless malbranque/lennon is injured (having said that there is no bench alternative during games either).

Some of the main 'gaffs' this year, in my view, have been: not 'resting' jenas after repeated bad performances, leaving us short of wingers, constantly rotating the strikers, and at the very start of the year playing three physical midfielders and only one creator.

[Spur]

Is this aimed at Spus or me? :confused:

Who you calling a Spus?

Your a Spus! :mad:

[choda]

Well Choda, Brother of Dick, Cock and Martin, I hope your not offering tactical advice on team selection. A Goalkeeper is always usefull.:p

Robbo's the keeper. That's no longer an issue to me. He's lost weight and in the last two games looks immediately back to his best.

I'm sure now that it was a weight issue. Porkie Paul equals bad perfomances. Stay in shape Robbo!

[spurs61]

You're a Spus!

[Spur]

You're a Spus!

Ah shit. Ok, we've established that in the heat of battle i'm illiterate.

What a Spus!

[Gino Ginelli]

[QUOTE=Gino Ginelli;36456]This season we're in 4 competitions so almost twice the games, and we haven't the squad to cope with it. QUOTE]

We've got probably the biggest squad in the league! We (should) have two players for every position so I won't hear this as an excuse.

A big squad is one thing, a big squad of quality across the board is another. Yes we have a lot of midfielders, but not all of them are strong enough for me. Huddlestone is certainly one for the future but still needs to develop, Jenas is suspect, Zokora is struggling with the Prem, Tainio / Murphy / Ghaly all work hard but aren't first team choices for me, and Davids, to my regret, is now past it.

Tainio and Murphy can go for me, with some serious work put in on the training ground for Zokora and Gahly, who could be excellent with time in this league.

Give me depth and quality over sheer numbers anytime.

[spurs61]

Well I certainly didn't expect the most convincing argument regarding this thread would come from our Manager. Thank you Mr Jol but I think you made your point against Newcastle and Fulham. :mad: :mad: :mad:

[Welsh Spur]

Well I certainly didn't expect the most convincing argument regarding this thread would come from our Manager. Thank you Mr Jol but I think you made your point against Newcastle and Fulham. :mad: :mad: :mad:

You're as pissed as the rest of us obviously, so are you still behind the big man?

[spurs61]

You're as pissed as the rest of us obviously, so are you still behind the big man?

No! I have always been concerned Jol's tactical ineptness, last night was the final straw! Essentially Jol threw the towel in at two nil up, there was no excxuse for what Jol did, it was typical of his naive and negative mentality. So Berbatov was injured, so what? We were two goals up and the Arsenal players had begun to argue amongst themselves, there was no need to alter the system. Jol set his stall out at the begining of his tenure that wouldn't play Keane and Defoe together and refuses to go back on it. He allowed his personal dispute with Mido to get in the way and refused to play him yesterday until it was too late. He started a sluggish Huddlestone in a game where he would clearly be marginalised by his painful inability to cover any ground (I don't care how talented Tom is, if you can't get around the pitch you can't be on it). He obviously told both Huddlestone and Zokora to sit deep which allowed Arsenal to attack with impunity as we had no one up front to hold the ball up when it was whacked clear by the defenders.

This is the third game in a row that Jol's idiotic tactics have cost us dearly. Our last two league games have been played against ten men for a total of 90 minutes and Jol was still unable to get the team to out play the opposition. Let me also point something else out. In Jol's two and a half years as Manager we have had one good result, namely against Chelsea this season. Other than that he has been our thought and out fought by every team who considers themselves superior to us. Mr Jol has taken us as far as he can and has hit the glass ceiling.

[Thfc4Life]

No! I have always been concerned Jol's tactical ineptness, last night was the final straw! Essentially Jol threw the towel in at two nil up, there was no excxuse for what Jol did, it was typical of his naive and negative mentality. So Berbatov was injured, so what? We were two goals up and the Arsenal players had begun to argue amongst themselves, there was no need to alter the system. Jol set his stall out at the begining of his tenure that wouldn't play Keane and Defoe together and refuses to go back on it. He allowed his personal dispute with Mido to get in the way and refused to play him yesterday until it was too late. He started a sluggish Huddlestone in a game where he would clearly be marginalised by his painful inability to cover any ground (I don't care how talented Tom is, if you can't get around the pitch you can't be on it). He obviously told both Huddlestone and Zokora to sit deep which allowed Arsenal to attack with impunity as we had no one up front to hold the ball up when it was whacked clear by the defenders.

This is the third game in a row that Jol's idiotic tactics have cost us dearly. Our last two league games have been played against ten men for a total of 90 minutes and Jol was still unable to get the team to out play the opposition. Let me also point something else out. In Jol's two and a half years as Manager we have had one good result, namely against Chelsea this season. Other than that he has been our thought and out fought by every team who considers themselves superior to us. Mr Jol has taken us as far as he can and has hit the glass ceiling.

As much as it pains me to say this, I think Spur61 is absolutely spot on!
I applaud him for his honesty, even though the majority will shoot him down and accuse him of being 'fickle'.

Last night proved to me once and for all what many supporters have been saying regarding Jol's woeful negativity and this has happened on numerous occasions both this season and last. The game was there for the taking, yet Jol went 5 in midfield at home against a second string arsenal once getting 2 goals infront!

Now, who here believes that with that sort of negative mentality we are ever going to break into the top 4 or ever going to win anything?

Because I hate to break it to you guys but it aint happening.

Do you think either Ferguson, Mourinho or Wenger would have even dreamed of doing what Jol did last night in the same circumstances? no chance in hell! they would have continued with 442 and put the tie out of sight, and that is in essence the main problem, this cannot be changed in Jol this is how he is and Im afraid it isn't ever going to get us to where we want to be.

Also to the people that will say he got us 5th last year, yeh he did and that was a good achievement, but Allardyce has done that twice with Bolton on a fraction of the money Jol has had to spend, look at our squad the bare minimum we should be getting is 5th, it is head and shoulders above any other squad barring the top 4 and in my opinion not too far off of Liverpool's and Arsenal's.

Also one last thing, Jol has had four transfer windows to get a left winger in and still hasn't done this! that in itself is inexcusable especially considering that both Duff and Boa Morte have both been available and signed for lesser clubs. Since he has been here he has signed an abundance of average central midfielders and put them out of position on the flanks, thus giving us very little width when Lennon is out of the team and making us very easy to play against as the central area gets very congested due to them all wanting to be in the centre!

I could also go on and talk about our abysmal away form too, but I think that this to a certain extent comes under 'tactical ineptness' the way we set up so negatively on our travels, and from kick off always look as though we would be happy with a point even when the opposition go down to ten bloody men :rolleyes:

Rant over!

[Spur]

Last night proved to me once and for all what many supporters have been saying regarding Jol's woeful negativity and this has happened on numerous occasions both this season and last. The game was there for the taking, yet Jol went 5 in midfield at home against a second string arsenal once getting 2 goals infront!

I agree in principal, but despite our fantastic start and one goal lead the centre midfield was still getting walked through. By putting another centre midfielder in you was supposed to be coming out with the ball every time a battle ensued, which surprisingly wasn't the case.

[Shuggie13]

Also one last thing, Jol has had four transfer windows to get a left winger in and still hasn't done this! that in itself is inexcusable especially considering that both Duff and Boa Morte have both been available and signed for lesser clubs.

It would be naive to think that Jol was the sole reason for these players not signing for the club. Jol may well of identified a number of left-wingers that he wanted it is then down to the club to follow that up.

[Spur]

It would be naive to think that Jol was the sole reason for these players not signing for the club. Jol may well of identified a number of left-wingers that he wanted it is then down to the club to follow that up.

Indeed. And we also know for a fact we have bid for Boa, Downing, Pedersen, and Duff. So you can't say Damien Comolli (not Jol did you notice that?) isn't trying.

[choda]

No! I have always been concerned Jol's tactical ineptness, last night was the final straw! Essentially Jol threw the towel in at two nil up, there was no excxuse for what Jol did, it was typical of his naive and negative mentality. So Berbatov was injured, so what? We were two goals up and the Arsenal players had begun to argue amongst themselves, there was no need to alter the system. Jol set his stall out at the begining of his tenure that wouldn't play Keane and Defoe together and refuses to go back on it. He allowed his personal dispute with Mido to get in the way and refused to play him yesterday until it was too late. He started a sluggish Huddlestone in a game where he would clearly be marginalised by his painful inability to cover any ground (I don't care how talented Tom is, if you can't get around the pitch you can't be on it). He obviously told both Huddlestone and Zokora to sit deep which allowed Arsenal to attack with impunity as we had no one up front to hold the ball up when it was whacked clear by the defenders.

This is the third game in a row that Jol's idiotic tactics have cost us dearly. Our last two league games have been played against ten men for a total of 90 minutes and Jol was still unable to get the team to out play the opposition. Let me also point something else out. In Jol's two and a half years as Manager we have had one good result, namely against Chelsea this season. Other than that he has been our thought and out fought by every team who considers themselves superior to us. Mr Jol has taken us as far as he can and has hit the glass ceiling.

But it's not always a question of tactics mate. It was obviously the case with Sven and other managers but it is not the case here, in my view. I think to sack Jol would be a crazy decision. Who would we get that's better? Lippi? Could we get him?

Just like at the start of the year I think people are getting over-reactionary to bad results. And it's becuase fans are getting ahead of themselves. The team is in DEVELOPMENT. There will be disappointments and bad performances along the way.

I stick by the things I said in my previous post.

I'll say it again, judge Jol at the end of next season.

If you want to talk about last nights tactics, we were leading and the game was wide open. He decided he'd like to create more numbers in midfield to take more control, but the midfield performed so badly it was even less in control. That was the players fault. They bottled it or let themselves get tired or whatever. I think it all goes back to the young team and new foreigners.

[spurs61]

I'll reply to this tomorrow, too stoned to do anything right now*****

[choda]

I'll reply to this tomorrow, too stoned to do anything right now*****

Fair enough, have a good one mate.

[spurs61]

:D Oh I will! :p :p ;)

[Gino Ginelli]

Naturally these sort of sentiments always come out after a bad runs of form, but I think we are all suffering a hangover from the party of last season. We all got drunk last year, stayed 4th almost all season, then finally realised we'd had too much and started chundering on the last game (Lasagnegate)

Now we are feeling the effects of that party, with 4 competitions, new personell, and over-expectations. Jol really needs to be given more time to get it right.

I've always felt that we are still some way from the team we need. The current set of players aren't the ones who will return Glory Glory to WHL. We have the strikers, the keeper and at least 3 of the back 4 in Chimbo, Daws and King, and our creative starlet in Lennon. The rest of the positions are not there yet, and it may be a year or two before they start assembling.

I was watching an interview with David Bentley, and it occured to me that Hughes is getting close to assembling a strong squad at B'Burn, with some key players, but still a few gaps in his squad. Jol is maybe a season behind this, but what I'm saying is that with time, the squad is assembled. Granted we are probably a season behind due to losing a key member of the squad building (in Carrick) but if we hold on to the key players and strengthen in the places outlined then we will get there eventually.

We just have to let him carry on the good work he's done so far.

[Welsh Spur]

I'll reply to this tomorrow, too stoned to do anything right now*****

I wish I was stoned, I've run out and it's dry as a bone round my way. Any other stoners around here know anything about the current drought in UK? PM me if you have any info....

[choda]

Naturally these sort of sentiments always come out after a bad runs of form, but I think we are all suffering a hangover from the party of last season. We all got drunk last year, stayed 4th almost all season, then finally realised we'd had too much and started chundering on the last game (Lasagnegate)

Now we are feeling the effects of that party, with 4 competitions, new personell, and over-expectations. Jol really needs to be given more time to get it right.

I've always felt that we are still some way from the team we need. The current set of players aren't the ones who will return Glory Glory to WHL. We have the strikers, the keeper and at least 3 of the back 4 in Chimbo, Daws and King, and our creative starlet in Lennon. The rest of the positions are not there yet, and it may be a year or two before they start assembling.

I was watching an interview with David Bentley, and it occured to me that Hughes is getting close to assembling a strong squad at B'Burn, with some key players, but still a few gaps in his squad. Jol is maybe a season behind this, but what I'm saying is that with time, the squad is assembled. Granted we are probably a season behind due to losing a key member of the squad building (in Carrick) but if we hold on to the key players and strengthen in the places outlined then we will get there eventually.

We just have to let him carry on the good work he's done so far.

Great post chap. I agree entirely.

What has happened this year could quite easily have happened for the reasons stated. And I always said if it did I would call for patience.

[spurs4ever]

I agree, all this sack Jol talk is nonsense... the man gave us our best season in 9 years

Its gonna take a few great signings and a decent clear out to make head way....

[JuicE]

We need to get over this "Best season last year for nine years" shit, We had no cup runs because we were beaten by shit lower league teams. As well as the budget he had huge backing and a large squad. He also missed out the the best ever opportunity to qualify for CL football in 10 thousand years!
The bottom line is that he won't take us to the next level and we are wasting a good budget and great sponsorship by keep buying average players and loaning them out or selling them on. The tactics are nothing short of ****ing laughable at times.

[Spur]

we are wasting a good budget and great sponsorship by keep buying average players and loaning them out or selling them on.

So you want Comolli out as well?

[spurs61]

I hate to gloat (yeah right) but the mooted return of Teddy is purely down to the club trying to bring in a tactical expert without treading on Jol's toes. If he returns, expect to see Teddy sitting on the bench regardless of being in the squad. So it looks like the power that be at the club hold the same view as me!

[MiloMinderbinder]

I hate to gloat (yeah right) but the mooted return of Teddy is purely down to the club trying to bring in a tactical expert without treading on Jol's toes. If he returns, expect to see Teddy sitting on the bench regardless of being in the squad. So it looks like the power that be at the club hold the same view as me!

or could it be that Mido is off to Man City or Celta and we have neither the time nor the cash to buy a quick replacement before the window closes.

Amusingly enough Jol had apprently told Levy he wants "power and pace" so obviously we're looking at Teddy!

[Spur]

or could it be that Mido is off to Man City or Celta and we have neither the time nor the cash to buy a quick replacement before the window closes.

Yea, it could possibly have to do with bringing in a striker who won't get paid much and will help out with the youngsters now that Edgar has gone.

I read today (I think it was the Mirror - obviously I read it online I wouldn't waste my cash on that!) that Mido was on £35,000 a week. For starters I don't believe he's on that. Maybe around 20-ish but still, it's alot of money considering he's only started no more than 10 games.