4 points from 4 games.

[TomMcLaren]

Clearly four points from four games is not enough. After today's games the table looks like this:


3 Liverpool -------22 40
4 Bolton----------22 39
5 *******-------21 36
6 Portsmouth-----22 36
7 Tottenham-----22 32
8 Everton--------22 31
9 Reading--------22 30
10 Man City-------22 29
11 Blackburn------21 28
12 Fulham---------22 27

There are 3 points between us and Blackburn in 11th, and we are starting to look like the head of a chasing pack for a European spot. We are still (just) in touch with Pompey and the Scum, for a shot at a UEFA spot, but we need
to start picking up points asap or we're f*cked.

Our next 6 league games are:
Newcastle (H), Fulham (A), Everton (A), Man Utd (H), Sheffield Utd (A) and Bolton (H).

I hate to say it, but there are no easy fixtures in there, and I'm wondering how many points we can take from those games. On current form I hope we can beat two of Fulham, Everton and Sheffield Utd, and two from Newcastle, Manure and Notlob. 12 from 18 should be enough to stay in touch, but won't be enough to push up the league. If we want a European spot, we need 14 points from those games, which is a big ask. But if we want European football, we need to start winning games fast, starting with Newcastle. At the moment, it's not looking good.

[highlander]

Newcastle (H), Fulham (A), Everton (A), Man Utd (H), Sheffield Utd (A) and Bolton (H).

if we are to make it into the top 6 anytime soon then we need to be winning the home games against Newcastle & Bolton. even though we are better than the 3 teams we have to face away from home we wont win them all. 7 points would be nice and if we werent so poor on the road then it would be a reasonable target but i think if we can get 5 from those 3 then it will keep us in touch. despits the Utd game being at home it will be a hugeask to get anything so that counts as a bonus game for me

[hastingsyid]

Just not good enough at the minute,we need to get a run going

[mjbmedia]

heres a simple idea, why dont we do what Man U Chelsea and to some extent the scum do and play away as we do at home, let the opposition worry about us and our strengths and mkae them change their tactics/ style to counteract our methods .

instead we go away playing like we'd take the final whistle after one minute at 0-0 and get a point, we only play when we're behind then when we get level we stop playing again and hold onto it .

ok maybe for certain games but can anyone think of an away game where we controlled it and took it to the opposition (o yes UEFA cup games excluded)

[hastingsyid]

heres a simple idea, why dont we do what Man U Chelsea and to some extent the scum do and play away as we do at home, let the opposition worry about us and our strengths and mkae them change their tactics/ style to counteract our methods .

instead we go away playing like we'd take the final whistle after one minute at 0-0 and get a point, we only play when we're behind then when we get level we stop playing again and hold onto it .

ok maybe for certain games but can anyone think of an away game where we controlled it and took it to the opposition (o yes UEFA cup games excluded)

Ermmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...NO

[jrio]

heres a simple idea, why dont we do what Man U Chelsea and to some extent the scum do and play away as we do at home, let the opposition worry about us and our strengths and mkae them change their tactics/ style to counteract our methods .

Simple: we're not a CL club and don't have the quality of players of those sides. Plus, we have a number of injuries in key positions, much like Chelsea who are getting similar results.

[mjbmedia]

Simple: we're not a CL club and don't have the quality of players of those sides. Plus, we have a number of injuries in key positions, much like Chelsea who are getting similar results.
and so we never will be cos the CL clubs WILL play like that and get the top four positions because of it (simplyfying it maybe but how many times have the top three at least been the same three out of four teams

[Welsh Spur]

I do actually understand what you're trying to say and kinda agree but not really, if that makes sense. I get that to be up there we need to be playing like u say but at the mo we are not one of those teams and can't afford to be playing like that for a number of reasons, such as the fact that we find it nigh on impossible to keep a clean sheet.

[jrio]

Historically, the 3 reds have always been in that situation, Utd mainly under Fergie and Arse under Wenger, and Chelsea are there through vast amounts of wealth. Simple really.

[mjbmedia]

o well so we're all just playing for 5th every season then are we???? :p

[jrio]

Yes, as opposed to struggling in mid-table for the previous 10 years. Highest = 7; Lowest - 14.

I'd also advise you to examine Spurs' historic placings after Bill Nick. They're particularly unimpressive.

[mjbmedia]

Yes, as opposed to struggling in mid-table for the previous 10 years. Highest = 7; Lowest - 14.

I'd also advise you to examine Spurs' historic placings after Bill Nick. They're particularly unimpressive.
yes i do know, i went to most of those seasons thankyou, i didnt just read it in a book!!!

[fluke]

i share everyones frustration. i think not qualifying for the CL last season was a real opportunity missed. not necessarily becauase we would have been succesfull in that competition but in respect that we would have attracted a higher calibre of player. if a club like chelsea are having problems with "squad depth" then what chance do we have. i think our summer purchases have proved to be very mediocre for the most part. i was quite optimistic going in to this season, thinking we would be ahead of the portsmouths and the boltons (portsmouth have all our rejects for gods sake). it really makes you want to pull your hair out.
Anyway, with the exception of last season there does seem to be a pattern developing.

[jrio]

yes i do know, i went to most of those seasons thankyou, i didnt just read it in a book!!!
Neither did I, which is why it's hard to understand the difference between what you've experienced and your statements as to what you expect. And you seem to expect not aspire.

[mjbmedia]

Neither did I, which is why it's hard to understand the difference between what you've experienced and your statements as to what you expect. And you seem to expect not aspire.
well why shouldnt i unless this is yet another false dawn in the spurs history .
i firmly believe that if we set out to outplay and squash the opposition from the first kick off we'd succeed more often than not, yes even against the top four clubs and certainly against the also rans. of course thered be the odd upset as there always is but id rather see,and i expect, us to be more positive.

i repeat, all too often this season and also last season we'd settle for a one goal victory, that cost us a few times last season and indeed cost us CL place , who else out of the top clubs would have been holding out for a 1-0 victory against lowly strugglers sunderland last season, no one and we didnt even manage to hold out , ditto to a few other games = two points dropped = below the scum.

last night Chelsea didnt beat Villa, but did they sit on a point for the last 5 minutes like we did V pompey ?? did they hell ok you can say the rewards for chelsea are different to what they would have been for us, but thats only because they have that attitude each and every game as opposed to our attitude each and every game = circa 20 points difference and a dire goal difference, and as we beat chelsea it would be hard to say theyre better than us, more consistent and harder to beat because of the above attitude but not better.

take Reading are they better than majority of teams in the premier league, theyre just below us for now and they beat us, does that mean theyre better than us, on the day yes. but they have a never say die attitude , its not enough for them against the top teams but it does them good against the others and so you have championship type players beating premier league stalwarts .

spurs attitude seems to be lets not lose first then see what happens, which is shown on the goal difference, too many single goal victories for the quality we have at our disposal we should be putting more teams away when we have control but all too often we lose the inititative and end up holding on.

UEFA cup games esp against Leverkusen we seemed to have the attitude i want and expect us to have in all games , for some reason in the premier league it all too often goes missing.
when we attack how many men are in or getting into the box?? then look at scum,man u and chelsea , not hard to see why they score more. so many times out attacks break down and the loose ball goes to the opposition, again see the aforementioned three teams and the loose ball will go to one of their players as they are more advanced and the pressure is kept on .

[Gregzy]

if a club like chelsea are having problems with "squad depth" then what chance do we have.

Chelsea's depth problems are the fault of their own reckless activity in the transfer market. Every club has two prices for their players now -going rate and Chelsea price and with JM reluctant to pay what he feels are over the odds, he will struggle to find bench-warmers. On top of this, I imagine alot of players will look at the number of talented players who don't get a look in at Stamford Bridge and come to the conclusion that a move to Chelsea can be highly detrimental to their career. A certain Shaun Wright-Phillips springs immediately to mind...

As for our own problems away from home, I really think there is a confidence issue that needs addressing and not alot more. Our last three away games have all been marked improvements from what we were enduring a month or two ago - Newcastle were flattered by their result and Portsmouth would have yielded the full three points were it not for David James's continuing Indian summer. I firmly believe that our away day problems are on the mend and we'll soon be taking teams to the sword on the road as we are usually so good at doing at the Lane.

New year, new beginnings - have fiath my Yid Bredren!

[Welsh Spur]

mjb's post is spot on. Absolutely 100% correct.

[hastingsyid]

well why shouldnt i unless this is yet another false dawn in the spurs history .
i firmly believe that if we set out to outplay and squash the opposition from the first kick off we'd succeed more often than not, yes even against the top four clubs and certainly against the also rans. of course thered be the odd upset as there always is but id rather see,and i expect, us to be more positive.

i repeat, all too often this season and also last season we'd settle for a one goal victory, that cost us a few times last season and indeed cost us CL place , who else out of the top clubs would have been holding out for a 1-0 victory against lowly strugglers sunderland last season, no one and we didnt even manage to hold out , ditto to a few other games = two points dropped = below the scum.

last night Chelsea didnt beat Villa, but did they sit on a point for the last 5 minutes like we did V pompey ?? did they hell ok you can say the rewards for chelsea are different to what they would have been for us, but thats only because they have that attitude each and every game as opposed to our attitude each and every game = circa 20 points difference and a dire goal difference, and as we beat chelsea it would be hard to say theyre better than us, more consistent and harder to beat because of the above attitude but not better.

take Reading are they better than majority of teams in the premier league, theyre just below us for now and they beat us, does that mean theyre better than us, on the day yes. but they have a never say die attitude , its not enough for them against the top teams but it does them good against the others and so you have championship type players beating premier league stalwarts .

spurs attitude seems to be lets not lose first then see what happens, which is shown on the goal difference, too many single goal victories for the quality we have at our disposal we should be putting more teams away when we have control but all too often we lose the inititative and end up holding on.

UEFA cup games esp against Leverkusen we seemed to have the attitude i want and expect us to have in all games , for some reason in the premier league it all too often goes missing.
when we attack how many men are in or getting into the box?? then look at scum,man u and chelsea , not hard to see why they score more. so many times out attacks break down and the loose ball goes to the opposition, again see the aforementioned three teams and the loose ball will go to one of their players as they are more advanced and the pressure is kept on .

Well put fella

[jrio]

well why shouldnt i unless this is yet another false dawn in the spurs history. etc etc

mjb, it has proved to be something of a false dawn so far. The away form has been lamentable with 4 games in which we've conceded 3 goals. Zokora and Ekotto have had major lapses in form and the midfield still lacks width, regular goals and a settled formation.

I don't think we've been too defensive away from home. We took the game to both ManU and Liverpool away, totally outplayed Villa and were easily in control against Reading before imploding. At Pompey we started brightly, conceded a deflected goal yet looked in the second half as though we would win 3-1. Last season at Sunderland was a disgrace but you can also point to games like Boro away where we finished the game with 4 strikers on the pitch. The reason for the lack of goals is that we struggle to create clear chances and even when we do are not lethal enough in finishing them.

Chelsea are in a different mindset to us. They are the champions trying to win a third in a row and for them failure is finishing second. They have the confidence and fluidity from continued success and acquiring proven international players. I wouldn't say we are better than them just because of one victory. In that game they were the better side for the first and last 20 minutes where we certainly too negative in trying to hang on against 10 men at home.

Reading and Portsmouth are playing above themselves at the moment. I think Pompey will finish about 8th and Reading a few places below that. Look at Wigan. They were ahead of us for a few months at the start of last season and are currently on a bad run.

As for Europe I felt most of those sides showed us too much respect and allowed us to dictate the games. They never attacked us like Premiership sides can do and we always looked comfortable. I've no doubt that will change at the semi-final stage.

[Spur]

mjb, it has proved to be something of a false dawn so far.

This has pissed me off beyond belief. What did youy expect? You expected to win the title within a season? You talk about semi finals in the same breath as false dawn, not just any shitty Carling Cup smei finals but the semis of a European competition....a false dawn? So far I think it's been a pretty successful period in time. I can't believe people question Jol. There was a comparison made with George Graham as well. People like this make me ashamed to support the same club. It's ridiculous.

We are constantly against all the odds and whilst we cannot win every battle, like with Carrick leaving, we are still fighting to come out on top, by having Huddlestone ready and waiting. That's just one example.

The only way you have a quick fix and become title challengers overnight is if you have a Roman Abramovich. I don't want one. We are one of the few clubs running consistantly at a profit, which shows how the club is now being run. On the pitch we have just had our best ever finish, look shit ****ing hot in europe and have got to the semi's of the Carling Cup too and still people complain....I don't get it. What do we need to do?

On Newsnow i'm constantly seeing articles from sites like all3points that just rinse down the club. I don't read them because I know they will piss me off. I always backed up our club and fans when people called us fickle. I always thought Villa fans were worse than our own. Maybe i'm wrong.

[jrio]

What are you getting so worked up about in my post, Spur? In reference to the Prem after the players that came in you can't possibly say that we progressed as expected. That's what is being referred to. Do you think Jol expected the Prem performances that we have had so far? Being critical isn't the same as slagging off the club. It's pointing out areas that have failed to live up to their potential. Nothing I wrote was akin to comparing Jol to Graham nor is there any expectation of us winning the league. Usually I get slagged off for saying we won't finish in the top four.

[Welsh Spur]

Mate, we have played 31 games so far this season with at least another 21.... last season we played 40 exactly. I will gladly go along with the reasoning that this is the reason for our indifferent league form.

I hope we win the UEFA Cup then finish outside top 6, just to see if people are still as cynical.

[MiloMinderbinder]

What are you getting so worked up about in my post, Spur? In reference to the Prem after the players that came in you can't possibly say that we progressed as expected. That's what is being referred to. Do you think Jol expected the Prem performances that we have had so far? Being critical isn't the same as slagging off the club. It's pointing out areas that have failed to live up to their potential. Nothing I wrote was akin to comparing Jol to Graham nor is there any expectation of us winning the league. Usually I get slagged off for saying we won't finish in the top four.

has someone contended that we'll finish top four:rolleyes: I think not my friends, not until we stop getting our players from Holland, France and other 3rd rate leagues, there is a reason the players are plying their trade there, they are no ****ing good. Who has that seen that pisspot Zokora play (£8mil!!!) and still thinks the guy cuts the mustard? give him time?! give him a one way ticket back to the muppets league is more like it. It's players like that which will set us back and players like Berba that will take us forward, we've brought in too many like Zokora and not enough like Berba, therefore we are now struggling to maintain the status quo.

[jrio]

We were playing poorly before we even started playing all the cup games(Bolton, Everton etc) so that isn't the reason. More likely it's the loss of Carrick who was our prime playmaker and opened up space for us. That would account for the lack of clear chances and goals away. King was also missing from early on, Lennon hasn't played as regularly and Robinson was regularly failing to deal adequately with long range shots.

[jrio]

Who has that seen that pisspot Zokora play (£8mil!!!) and still thinks the guy cuts the mustard? give him time?! give him a one way ticket back to the muppets league is more like it.
He's had a bad lapse but it's too early to take such a view. I thought he was a good acquisition having seen him in the WC and he has looked dynamic in a number of games. Giving the ball to Gerrard on Saturday was a massive error but hardly any worse than Jenas' miss in the away game.

[MiloMinderbinder]

He's had a bad lapse but it's too early to take such a view. I thought he was a good acquisition having seen him in the WC and he has looked dynamic in a number of games. Giving the ball to Gerrard on Saturday was a massive error but hardly any worse than Jenas' miss in the away game.

I am not basing it on that horrific bit of play, although standing around like a **** at a gay bar whilst they walked through did not improve my opinion of him. No I actually said after the Sheff. Utd game that I thought he was going to struggle and how I wish he has been that good. He can't pass, certainly can't tackle, can't head a ball and doesn't really harry the opposition and has the worst first touch I have ever seen and I watched Les Ferdinand for 3 years. Apart from that he has been a revelation. I will give him some leeway due to his malarial bout (it's seriously debilitating) but even before hand I had my doubts.

Oh and buying players based on World Cup is just about as dangerous as it gets. for example Gerrard and Ronaldinho played like shite due to the number of games they had played during the season but would you turn them down? likewise players who have not played as much or in as many difficult games can look great in a World Cup as they are relatively fresh. In Zokora's case he was in a midfield that included Yapi Yapo (great name), Yaya Toure and Kaga Akale all of whom are prepared to put their foot in and work, this gave him license to rampage forward, but IMO to little effect.

[Spur]

What are you getting so worked up about in my post, Spur? In reference to the Prem after the players that came in you can't possibly say that we progressed as expected. That's what is being referred to. Do you think Jol expected the Prem performances that we have had so far? Being critical isn't the same as slagging off the club. It's pointing out areas that have failed to live up to their potential. Nothing I wrote was akin to comparing Jol to Graham nor is there any expectation of us winning the league. Usually I get slagged off for saying we won't finish in the top four.

The Graham part wasn't aimed at just you, but it was an example of another fan being a muppet. I fail to see how this can be called a false dawn. Maybe parts of your argument are right but saying it's a false dawn, saying we won't accomplish anything - that just ain't on. We've just gone from 14th to 5th in a matter of 3 seasons.

http://www.tottenhamhotspur.com/matches/matches_frr.html Look at that. When have you ever seen so many WON on that page?

We've had nearly 50 players coming in and going out in those 3 seasons, one summer we had 24 players come in the doors!!! You can't expect overnight results, I don't know what you were expecting, but I was expecting improvement. We have got it. I don't see how people can still complain. We finished 5th last year and i'd be more than happy with it again. I'd kill even for 6th and guaranteed UEFA.

Our main player was ripped from us so we have had to learn all over again, with half a season gone we are still very much in a race for 3rd and 4th...we was no where near a race for 9th or 10th in previous seasons look at the improvement.

[highlander]

to build on last seasons 5th place finish and break the top 4 would have been a huge challeneg keeping in mind the 20-odd extra games we are playing/are going to play. as long as we keep european football for next season ill be happy, be it through the league or winning a cup. it does take time to build a solid team capable of challenging for the CL every season.

[jrio]

The Graham part wasn't aimed at just you, but it was an example of another fan being a muppet. I fail to see how this can be called a false dawn. Maybe parts of your argument are right but saying it's a false dawn, saying we won't accomplish anything - that just ain't on. We've just gone from 14th to 5th in a matter of 3 seasons.

I don't disagree with that(progress in 3 seasons) but for me it's a false dawn from last season to this in the league. With the money we spent on several key players I was expecting noticeable improvements in performances. Last season we often fell behind at home to sides low in the league and struggled to win games by the odd goal that we should have dominated. Chimbo and Berb have been great successes but Ekotto and Zokora haven't so far. There are no signs that we are closer to the CL sides. Yes, we beat Chelsea but didn't score a goal in 4 other games against ManU, Pool and Arse. I would be happy with 5th and that is what I expected at the start of the season.

[laspur]

has someone contended that we'll finish top four:rolleyes: I think not my friends, not until we stop getting our players from Holland, France and other 3rd rate leagues, there is a reason the players are plying their trade there, they are no ****ing good. Who has that seen that pisspot Zokora play (£8mil!!!) and still thinks the guy cuts the mustard? give him time?! give him a one way ticket back to the muppets league is more like it. It's players like that which will set us back and players like Berba that will take us forward, we've brought in too many like Zokora and not enough like Berba, therefore we are now struggling to maintain the status quo.

But we all know bringing any foreigners into the EPL is always a gamble whoever it is. If i remember correctly, Drogba's 1st season was mediocre as was Essien's. Now look at Essien, the best midfielder in the league in my opinion, and Drogba is making a case for best forward at the moment. I still think Zokora will add something maybe not this season but perhaps next season. Berbatov, i love tha man for what he's able to do but against the big dogs, he really hasn't scored but he will most definiteley.

[JJ]

He can't pass, certainly can't tackle, can't head a ball and doesn't really harry the opposition and has the worst first touch I have ever seen and I watched Les Ferdinand for 3 years.

Hey.. i won't hear a bad word about Sir Lesley of Ferdinand.

Or his solid steel head.

[spurs61]

why dont we ........let the opposition worry about us and our strengths and mkae them change their tactics/ style to counteract our methods .

instead we go away playing like we'd take the final whistle after one minute at 0-0 and get a point, we only play when we're behind then when we get level we stop playing again and hold onto it .

ok maybe for certain games but can anyone think of an away game where we controlled it and took it to the opposition (o yes UEFA cup games excluded)


I have always been an advocate of this mentality, not against the top three or four teams but certainly against teams like Bolton, rather than getting involved in battles we can't win.

[MiloMinderbinder]

Hey.. i won't hear a bad word about Sir Lesley of Ferdinand.

Or his solid steel head.

yeah you're right, top bloke, shame he had to ruin it by trying to hard for us. The problem was his head was more skillful than his feet. Still a great buy for £6mil:rolleyes:

[JJ]

yeah you're right, top bloke, shame he had to ruin it by trying to hard for us. The problem was his head was more skillful than his feet. Still a great buy for £6mil:rolleyes:

Haha, he was never the sharpest tool in the shed or any good with his feet really.

Ginola had the right idea at Newcastle, just kick the ball at his head and 9 times out of 10 it would go in.

[MiloMinderbinder]

Haha, he was never the sharpest tool in the shed or any good with his feet really.

Ginola had the right idea at Newcastle, just kick the ball at his head and 9 times out of 10 it would go in.

reminds me of when we had Andy Gray taking throw ins straight onto Teddy's head and.................goal. That was leathal, shame the only other thing Gray was good for was acting as a waste disposal unit in the canteen.

[spurs61]

the only other thing Gray was good for was acting as a waste disposal unit in the canteen.

That's not fair! I once saw Gray hit a penalty in a reserve match against the scum at WHL. There were builders above the Park Lane end in the upper tier, Gray's penalty went so far over it actually knocked a builders' hard hat clean off his head. Now that's accuracy, there's no way he didn't mean to do that.........lmfao! :p ;) :o

[MiloMinderbinder]

That's not fair! I once saw Gray hit a penalty in a reserve match against the scum at WHL. There were builders above the Park Lane end in the upper tier, Gray's penalty went so far over it actually knocked a builders' hard hat clean off his head. Now that's accuracy, there's no way he didn't mean to do that.........lmfao! :p ;) :o

oh of course, he was also a comedy genius. Didn't he end up playing for Marbella, I could think of worse places to ply your trade (like West Ham or Blackburn).

Andy Gray, my god, now the real debate should be who was fatter, him or pieboy Reid?