Where will we finish... place your vote here

[choda]

Okay. I think this will be interesting.

Just wondering what you lot are thinking about this now.

Personally I think we will buy another flanker in the window as we badly need both cover and more options for starting with two wingers maybe and also for springing from the bench when needed.

All the top sides have lots of flankers except us.

I think this is hurting us. However when all is done and dusted I still feel we will be in fourth or near it so that I how I'm going to vote.

We still have a top manager and a very good squad overall and needed additions will be acquired.

[Welsh Spur]

It's about away form and unless it changes drastically, then it's 6th to 10th for me. And that's how I voted. I think our success this season will be in the cups.

I am convinced Spurs will be playing in the last four at least of the UEFA Cup. More convinced than I am of Man Utd or Chelsea winning the league.

[hastingsyid]

i voted betwen 6th and 10th..thats the best we can hope for this year,but god i hope im ****ing wrong and finish higher but i just cant see it

[Spur]

I think those examples of Liverpool and Newcastle in the past have given me new found hope. And Teemu's back. And Jenas is injured. Lots and lots of hope.

[SurreySpur]

who put top three?

[Spur]

Not me. I put 6th - 10th

[spurs61]

Me too, unless there's a drastic change in tactics and personnel between now and mid way through January.

[olly27]

you have fourth as an option and then 4th,5th,6th as an option, why not two separate ie. 4th ....5th or 6th

[olly27]

also completely agree with welsh spur..if away form does not improve very quickly we aint getting anywhere near top 6 nevermind the top 4...we had 6 away wins last season and 6 draws..24 points...we have 3 points so for and we'r passed the one third mark..so we should have 8-10 points on the road already and thats just to keep in line with our points tally last season nevermind beating it...anyone who thinks we'r gonna finish top 4 is extremely naive.

[choda]

you have fourth as an option and then 4th,5th,6th as an option, why not two separate ie. 4th ....5th or 6th

Well I just wanted to see if anyone was still sure we'd finish fourth. The other option is for people who think we could but are not sure by any means.

I think this year we are going to be like newcastle under bobby and houllier's liverpoll in that we will gradually pass out the teams with lesser quality and be up there with Arsenal and Liverpool come the end.

I mean look at pool. Compared to expectation they've been worse than us. Can you see them staying so bad as to not finsih in the top five?

I think it's just because it's us that we are more apprehensive. I still look at us and pool and the likes of villa, portsmouth, everton and bolton and feel that the cream will rise.

Either way I think we've a great chance in the cups. But I think we'll climb the table aswell. If you think about it our players and the pool players are itchy in a way that the teams with lesser quality aren't when they are sitting in mid-table.

And shit teams usually find their level come the end.

[Spur]

anyone who thinks we'r gonna finish top 4 is extremely naive.

Well ya see that's where ya wrong.

I would have said exactly the same thing but, like I say, the Liverpool and Newcastle examples have given me hope.

The only team I fear getting 4th now is Villa. With O'Neill they are the best team in the world...(a bit carried away). But other teams generally back off and I have the belief we could capitalise once the UEFA Cup dies down for the year and start of the next. I mean seriously, do you see Pompey and Bolton challenging come the end of February or March?

[suBerb]

6-8 in premiership and 1-2 finals in the cups

[laspur]

I think we will finish 6-9 cause the inconsistant midfield along with lack of scoring, are areas which will not improve overnight. A 6th place finish hindges on a successful x-mas run, if we get slaughtered, well a 10th place finish is realistic. I'll gladly take a cup finals in any case.

[sundancer]

I still believe we will finish in the top six the reason being is that we have a bigger and better squad then Bolton, Everton and Portsmouth, Villa will struggle unless they buy big in Jan. So apart from the top four of last season we have the chance to finish high again.

[jrio]

Comparisons with Liverpool are invidious. They're always capable of going on a seven game winning run, particularly after the start of the year. We haven't finished above them for about 40 years. Their away games were also actually harder than ours - Chelsea, Everton, ManU, Bolton and Arsenal as against Liverpool, ManU and Bolton.

Arsenal also have the quality to go on a long run. Villa don't have the depth in their squad when they get injuries to the likes of Moore and Petrov to churn out wins. December gives us the opportunity to win 4 or 5 in a row but I estimate that we'll probably only pick up 8 or 9 points unless there's a dramatic change in goal scoring.

So far we've been no higher than 10th and that was for a week. Our form after New Year last season wasn't particularly good with several defeats and dropped points in games we should have won. We don't easily defeat inferior sides under MJ and that has become increasingly worse over the last 18 months, typically having to score 3 to win the game in a number of home games against the likes of Sunderland last season.

[neilmcnab]

I still believe we will finish in the top six the reason being is that we have a bigger and better squad then Bolton, Everton and Portsmouth, Villa will struggle unless they buy big in Jan. So apart from the top four of last season we have the chance to finish high again.
HEY ITS NOT HOW BIG IT IS ITS HOW YOU USE IT, ASK ANY WOMANager.

[choda]

Comparisons with Liverpool are invidious. They're always capable of going on a seven game winning run, particularly after the start of the year. We haven't finished above them for about 40 years. Their away games were also actually harder than ours - Chelsea, Everton, ManU, Bolton and Arsenal as against Liverpool, ManU and Bolton.

Arsenal also have the quality to go on a long run. Villa don't have the depth in their squad when they get injuries to the likes of Moore and Petrov to churn out wins. December gives us the opportunity to win 4 or 5 in a row but I estimate that we'll probably only pick up 8 or 9 points unless there's a dramatic change in goal scoring.

So far we've been no higher than 10th and that was for a week. Our form after New Year last season wasn't particularly good with several defeats and dropped points in games we should have won. We don't easily defeat inferior sides under MJ and that has become increasingly worse over the last 18 months, typically having to score 3 to win the game in a number of home games against the likes of Sunderland last season.

Why are these comparisions unfair? They've woefully underperformed in many games so have we.

I think we can challenge them. Their back four has lost it. Hypia was hanging on last year but he's gone now. Agger is dodgy. Carragher is slow and not performing. Their keeper is rubbish. Gerrard isn't playing well. Their strikers aren't scoring. The manager keeps chopping and changing for no apparent reason.

They don't look good now.

Arsenal are mixed bag. They nothing special either. And as I predicted they are having trouble on the big pitch at home as they are still predictable and one dimensional. Even though the passing through midfield is sublime they're not great after that.

It's early doors that's all I'm saying. And we finished fifth last year and so close to fourth. We've a better squad now and still a top manager.

Two wins and we're in the top eight. A good christmas and we're bang in the hunt for fourth. A decent christmas and were still in touch with HALF the season to go.

I so hope your wrong. I don't get my hopes up because that can lead to pain, but thats how I see it objectively. And I have definite preferences for how I want things to go.

Your attitude still strikes me as pure misery. Or maybe I'm being unfair, maybe you've had loads of experiences of getting your hopes up, expecting and then being shit on.

I've never gotten my expectations up with spurs before (because I never saw anything to create it... I'm a fan for fourteen years now) and so it's never happened to me.

I blame my dad for bringing me to the lane where I promptly fell in love with everything about useless spurs (at the time): The style, the ethos, the fans.

And I must admit Klinsmann was a deal breaker. At twelve years of age I had to support the team with the coolest player in the prem and the famous five helped. Spurs are showbiz and rock and roll. Always have been.

However, this is a different spurs to any spurs I've ever seen since I've been a fan. There's not just glamour but substance. And that's not an opinion that is a fact.

Since the start of the prem: We've never achieved a points tally like last year in the prem, we've never had a top manager, we've never had such a strong squad of exciting young talent, we've never had a scouting network so good and last but certainly not least we've never had a chairman like Daniel Levy.

I apologise if I've been a jerk to you before, but a lot of the things you say come across to me at least as really negative. I don't like negativity, especially when it's not really warrented at the best time in spurs recent history.

However, maybe I misinterpret you.

[Welsh Spur]

Let's look at the bright side, or the pros, if you will.

We've won 10 out of 19 in all competitions.
We've scored in 11 of our last 12 games.
Quarter Finalists (at worst) League Cup
We have a 100% Cup record.
We went on a ten game unbeaten run.
The forwards have managed 16 goals in 19 games.

The cons are:
13th in the league.
Poor away form.
No open play goal on the road.

I know runs and stats count for nothing but they are bright spots and all reasons to be cheerful and still (albeit quietly) optimistic.

I've been doing my homework:-
We have 25 league games left, if we win 16 of them and draw 4 we will finish with 68 points. That means losing only 5 more. I think it can be done, it's definately obtainable. But we're runnig out of time to deliver. This team can beat anyone in the league, I'm sure of it, we've seen glimpses of it. I'm just hopin they realise sooner rather than later.

[jrio]

Let's temper one of those pros - ten game unbeaten run - and say it was a five game unbeaten league run that should have been seven.The defeat to Reading was a key indicator that the season will consist of lightweight performances against less talented opposition whilst scoring less goals than last season equalling a slump into mid-table. It's greatly disappointing because the club invested in several quality players, principally Chimbonda, Zokora and Berbatov, which shouldn't have seen us fall so far so quickly.

The loss of Carrick does account for a great deal of the mediocrity of so many of our performances. Central midfield is our main problem as Zokora sitting deep with Jenas only several yards further forward greatly constricts our attacking options. There is far too little support for the forwards. Carrick could sit deep and orchestrate attacks with his visionary passing but Zokora doesn't have that vision and his strength is running with the ball, leaving him vulnerable to getting caught out of position if the ball is lost easily. Jenas' main strength seems to be his athleticism and stamina; his range of technical ability causes few problems at this level. Huddlestone is physically imposing with a powerful shot, lacking some mobility but having a range of passing potentially akin to Carrick's. Huddlestone would be a more natural fit with Jenas but Zokora has more attributes to open up defences and create space for the forwards. It all points to either Jenas or Zokora not being at the club next season, just as Jol's constant switching of the strikers to make sure both Defoe and Keane get games will mean the exit of one before next season.

[olly27]

the simple thing for me is...noooooooooooooooo GOALS..the only side we have beat at a canter this season is sheff U...could of been a different result against porstmouth, villa, watford, and even chelsea. Even West ham we were missing sitters..If I see more signs of the team clicking and uping a gear I will have more hope for optimism...I also think we need to be more ruthless..I am not doubting are quality (far from it)..but until these things are rectified I cant see the top 6 this season..its like we had a bad start to the season..and people keep looking at the games ahead and those games pass and still no improvement ...then you look at the next batch of games...no improvement..before you know it the season is practically over! hopefully though we'll turn it around...if we aint in the top 8 after xmas..forget it!

[choda]

Let's temper one of those pros - ten game unbeaten run - and say it was a five game unbeaten league run that should have been seven.The defeat to Reading was a key indicator that the season will consist of lightweight performances against less talented opposition whilst scoring less goals than last season equalling a slump into mid-table. It's greatly disappointing because the club invested in several quality players, principally Chimbonda, Zokora and Berbatov, which shouldn't have seen us fall so far so quickly.

The loss of Carrick does account for a great deal of the mediocrity of so many of our performances. Central midfield is our main problem as Zokora sitting deep with Jenas only several yards further forward greatly constricts our attacking options. There is far too little support for the forwards. Carrick could sit deep and orchestrate attacks with his visionary passing but Zokora doesn't have that vision and his strength is running with the ball, leaving him vulnerable to getting caught out of position if the ball is lost easily. Jenas' main strength seems to be his athleticism and stamina; his range of technical ability causes few problems at this level. Huddlestone is physically imposing with a powerful shot, lacking some mobility but having a range of passing potentially akin to Carrick's. Huddlestone would be a more natural fit with Jenas but Zokora has more attributes to open up defences and create space for the forwards. It all points to either Jenas or Zokora not being at the club next season, just as Jol's constant switching of the strikers to make sure both Defoe and Keane get games will mean the exit of one before next season.

You're right, there's no doubt that we adopted a style of play around Carrick. But you can adapt and we are starting to do that (slowly).

Reading was a lack of drive and work rate. Simple as in my view. Young side and complacent there I thought. Very disappointing but they'll learn from it.

My concerns are that when Lennon is out we've no like for like. And then he crazily often picks three defensive midfielders in a wooden midfield. As we know we could actually do with another two wingers for the squad. A lot of our games two flankers would give us many more options.

Also I think we really suffer when he drops Keane and Berb for important tough games when they could play. All our away league fixtures are important and tough, so are loads of home games.

And I think he also needs to quite simply drop Jenas. In my view he's just not good enough. All I like about him at this stage is that he can get about.

Hudd and Zokora could develop into an excellent partnership. There's also Davids, Tainio and Ghaly.

With your indicators to how the season will go Jrio, your just going on our form so far which has been bad. Form can change, we all know that. Many teams with quality (and some in the past with less than us) have changed form and got to the top six... even top four.

I think you also have to add in ability to change things that need changing (a top manager), the quality of your squad (we have lots of quality), the learning curve of youngsters to new experience of extra competitions and the january transfer window.

I think the real question is will Jol address what needs addressing and can our players start to perform better: And I believe in his ability and the team so I think it there's a good chance of a yes.

[choda]

the simple thing for me is...noooooooooooooooo GOALS..the only side we have beat at a canter this season is sheff U...could of been a different result against porstmouth, villa, watford, and even chelsea. Even West ham we were missing sitters..If I see more signs of the team clicking and uping a gear I will have more hope for optimism...I also think we need to be more ruthless..I am not doubting are quality (far from it)..but until these things are rectified I cant see the top 6 this season..its like we had a bad start to the season..and people keep looking at the games ahead and those games pass and still no improvement ...then you look at the next batch of games...no improvement..before you know it the season is practically over! hopefully though we'll turn it around...if we aint in the top 8 after xmas..forget it!

Well I think that one is simple. The goals tally is rubbish because he keeps chopping and changing the strikers. There's fifty million pounds worth of quality there. IT'S NOT WORKING MJ.

He needs to just make Keano and Berbatov his first choice. Even if he made Mido and Defoe his first choice it'd be much better than what he's doing now.

[olly27]

Completely agree. Berby and keane though for me.