THFC Talk player of the season RESULTS:

[TURKISH]

Its been a long season compiling and doing these threads week in week out. I think its a great way to see who's THFCTalk player of the season is.

A special thanks to GG for doing the spread sheet and making it very easy for a numpty like me to follow.:santaclaus:


League FA Cup League Cup Overall
Heurelho Gomes 49 3 3 55
David Button 0 0 0 0
Ben Alnwick 0 0 0 0
Carlo Cudicini 6 0 3 9

Gareth Bale 49 24 10 83
Sebastien Bassong 12 0 0 12
Kyle Walker 1 0 0 1
Benoit Assou-Ekotto 11 1 0 12
Kyle Walker 0 0 0 0
Michael Dawson 13 0 0 13
Vedran Corluka 0 0 0 0
Kaboul 7 0 0 7
Ledley King 26 0 0 26

Danny Rose 0 0 0 0
Jermaine Jenas 13 0 0 13
Tom Huddlestone 29 1 0 30
Niko Krancjar 30 0 0 30
Wilson Palacios 28 12 0 40
David Bentley 4 13 12 29
Jamie O'Hara 0 0 1 1
Luka Modric 30 3 0 33
Aaron Lennon 21 0 3 24

Jermain Defoe 12 3 0 15
Robbie Keane 15 0 0 15
Roman Pavlyuchenko 4 9 0 13
Peter Crouch 23 0 6 29
EG 6 3 0 9


Bale played how many games in the prem this season? But still managed to win joint first with Gomes who is a GK. Impressive stuff from them two.

Corluka got zero points.

Palacios at one stage early on in the season was running away with it. But when he found his brother who died things went down hill and he turned into Zokora 2 but shitter passing.

Bentley was our best player in the CC.:001_rolleyes:

[Gino Ginelli]

So Gareth Bale is the THFCTalk Player of the Season overall? Very impressive for a lad who only really played half the season.

And look, Crouchy our best forward player as far as the MOTM voting goes.

It's notable how important our midfield players have been in the league this season from this. Hudd, Modders, Niko, Wilson and Lennon (taking his injury into account) all getting lots of votes over the season.

[olly27]

Amazing that Jenas has only two less votes than our top scorer. That is frightening, and breaking it down Jenas has one more vote than Defoe in the League!!!!!!!

[MarlowSpurs]

Even O'Hara got more votes than Corluka and Rose.....go figure

[choda]

Some of these results are odd. Some players maybe tend to stand out more attention wise when they have a good game?

But Bale winning, well you can't argue with it and it is staggering for a guy that only started playing in January. He has been that frighteningly good.

Also Turk mate. Wilson found his brother last March 12 months or so. That's last season.

[TURKISH]

Some of these results are odd. Some players maybe tend to stand out more attention wise when they have a good game?

But Bale winning, well you can't argue with it and it is staggering for a guy that only started playing in January. He has been that frighteningly good.

Also Turk mate. Wilson found his brother last March 12 months or so. That's last season.

Are you sure? No doubting you I can't really remember myself. If true than he has no excuse, he was horrible after the first couple of months during the season.

[Gino Ginelli]

Amazing that Jenas has only two less votes than our top scorer. That is frightening, and breaking it down Jenas has one more vote than Defoe in the League!!!!!!!

This reveals a couple of things perhaps.

First, that I will review the MOTM threads and find out who voted for JJ, then glare menacingly at their avatars for a minute in a rage. Who voted for JJ?! Inconceivable!!

Second, that despite his goal tally, and probable MOTM for his 5 goals against Wigan, Defoe's impact depends largely on the service provided to him from the likes of Lennon and Crouch.

It also shows that we greatly value the creativity of our midfielders, and have reflected that in the voting.

[Gino Ginelli]

Some of these results are odd. Some players maybe tend to stand out more attention wise when they have a good game?

But Bale winning, well you can't argue with it and it is staggering for a guy that only started playing in January. He has been that frighteningly good.

Also Turk mate. Wilson found his brother last March 12 months or so. That's last season.

Well that's the idea, MOTM generally goes to the player who had the biggest positive influence on the game. I think that's reflected. It's good to see that Gomes has been recognised as probably the most vital part of this team as our custodian.

[choda]

Well that's the idea, MOTM generally goes to the player who had the biggest positive influence on the game. I think that's reflected. It's good to see that Gomes has been recognised as probably the most vital part of this team as our custodian.

That's not what I mean. I mean that some players clearly stand out more than others when both actually do well.

I mean Crouch hasn't been doubly as important to us finishing fourth as Defoe, not a notion. In fact given the fact he made far far less starts then that says he was multiple times better and he wasn't. So the results are very skewed in some ways.

It also says he was as good as King as good as Modric and I'm sorry he's not in the same league.

I like Crouchie, I don't want him to leave, he's good for some games and good off the bench but he's not world class like some of our players who got less man of the match points.

Also Lennon has one fourth the points of Bale and David Bentley has more points than Ledley King. And you are telling me it isn't very skewed in some ways?

[TURKISH]

That's not what I mean. I mean that some players clearly stand out more than others when both actually do well.

I mean Crouch hasn't been doubly as important to us finishing fourth as Defoe, not a notion. In fact given the fact he made far far less starts then that says he was multiple times better and he wasn't. So the results are very skewed in some ways.

It also says he was as good as King as good as Modric and I'm sorry he's not in the same league.

I like Crouchie, I don't want him to leave, he's good for some games and good off the bench but he's not world class like some of our players who got less man of the match points.

Also Lennon has one fourth the points of Bale and David Bentley has more points than Ledley King. And you are telling me it isn't very skewed in some ways?

King has only played 18 games or so. Bentley played in fa cup games and CC. If we go by what matters just look at the prem stats. But ultimatley your right.

Also Dawson should surely have more points?

[choda]

King has only played 18 games or so. Bentley played in fa cup games and CC. If we go by what matters just look at the prem stats. But ultimatley your right.

Also Dawson should surely have more points?

Yea, okay with King but there are still loads of other anomolies which I've pointed out. You've even added another one with Dawson. He had a great season and was one of our big players.

Lennon one fourth the points of Bale????? Come on. At worst should be within 30 points if this is a spot on assessment.

[TURKISH]

Yea, okay with King but there are still loads of other anomolies which I've pointed out. You've even added another one with Dawson. He had a great season and was one of our big players.

Lennon one fourth the points of Bale????? Come on. At worst should be within 30 points if this is a spot on assessment.

Lennon was out for four months and only played 22 games. Only three players can get points on the board.

Plus everyone votes for there motm during that one game, people may not agree with the outcome but its not wrong.

Bale and Gomes were fantastic. King was hardly the player he was until the new year.

This season has been a great team performance and I think that shows with the way the points are shared out after Bale and Gomes.

[choda]

Lennon was out for four months and only played 22 games. Only three players can get points on the board.

Plus everyone votes for there motm during that one game, people may not agree with the outcome but its not wrong.

Bale and Gomes were fantastic. King was hardly the player he was until the new year.

This season has been a great team performance and I think that shows with the way the points are shared out after Bale and Gomes.

How many did Bale start???? We are talking comparing like for like. They both played half a season, so I am right.

I know you can only vote for three, so that is probably why it gets skewed. And clearly some tend to stand out more when they do well, even others probably had just as good a game.

Maybe next year we should change it to giving a match rating for all players and then average it out over the year.

I mean there are plenty of games I can remember people tearing their hair out with Bentley, Crouch, Pav before he got a rocket under his ass, Bale when he defended badly in the first half of the year. Games where Defoe was not in it but never stopped his movement and then banged a crucial goal in. And Dawson was mr. consistent and has gotten scant reward on this system for that.

I think the list goes on of how all we've really proven is that this system is pretty flawed! :tongue:

[TURKISH]

How many did Bale start???? We are talking comparing like for like. They both played half a season, so I am right.

I know you can only vote for three, so that is probably why it gets skewed. And clearly some tend to stand out more when they do well, even others probably had just as good a game.

Maybe next year we should change it to giving a match rating for all players and then average it out over the year.

I mean there are plenty of games I can remember people tearing their hair out with Bentley, Crouch, Pav before he got a rocket under his ass, Bale when he defended badly in the first half of the year. Games where Defoe was not in it but never stopped his movement and then banged a crucial goal in. And Dawson was mr. consistent and has gotten scant reward on this system for that.

I think the list goes on of how all we've really proven is that this system is pretty flawed! :tongue:

It defeats the purpose alltogeather imo. I only ask people to pick there motm after every game, if Lennon didn't get enough points then that means he wasn't motm in them games.

All these threads ask is who was motm, you can't argue the outcome of the results for me.

The people never lie.

Its not Choda's player of the year, its THFCTalks player of the year and these results and format stand.

[choda]

It defeats the purpose alltogeather imo. I only ask people to pick there motm after every game, if Lennon didn't get enough points then that means he wasn't motm in them games.

All these threads ask is who was motm, you can't argue the outcome of the results for me.

The people never lie.

Its not Choda's player of the year, its THFCTalks player of the year and these results and format stand.

What are you on about? You agree it can skew the picture and then say it doesn't.

I was not saying it is my player of the year. I was stating facts like Bale was not four times better than Lennon both having played roughly the same etc.

That's not my opinion that's obvious to anyone.

Well done for doing it and everything, but it's kinda been proven to be bollocks, but interesting and good fun.

[TURKISH]

What are you on about? You agree it can skew the picture and then say it doesn't.

I was not saying it is my player of the year. I was stating facts like Bale was not four times better than Lennon both having played roughly the same etc.

That's not my opinion that's obvious to anyone.

Well done for doing it and everything, but it's kinda been proven to be bollocks, but interesting and good fun.

It hasn't because it has the right winner in Bale? Agree or not? Gomes second best player? Agree or not?

[choda]

It hasn't because it has the right winner in Bale? Agree or not? Gomes second best player? Agree or not?

I thought it was Bale just about over Lennon. Lennon is way back. Then I'd go with Gomes third.

[Gino Ginelli]

Err... first off Crouch has been damn important to our league performance, and has stood out because of his towering performances and key goals.

Secondly I think it's perfectly fair. King should be player of the season because he was (undeniably) awesome in about 20 games, as opposed to Gomes who was oustanding for 40? Bale played about 10 games more than King but was phenomenal for all of them. There was also a patch in the winter where we were struggling to find form and Bale was the only one able to make a difference in the games.

Same with Lennon, he was fantastic for the 20 games he made, but because he only managed that many Tom/Wilson/Modders became more vital for us over the season. In the games they played the likes of King and Lennon contributed hugely and played fantastic. But because over season their appearances were limited for whatever reason, the other players contributed more, simply because they played more.

It may sound unfair and skewed, but similarly to say that a player who gave everything over season should not be recognised in favour of a player who was only able to play half a seasons worth, for no other reason than simply not being as naturally gifted, is also a bit unfair.

Therefore, we can see from this series of motm polls who the most consistently key and important players over a season, who made a difference, on the day, really are.

[TURKISH]

Err... first off Crouch has been damn important to our league performance, and has stood out because of his towering performances and key goals.

Secondly I think it's perfectly fair. King should be player of the season because he was (undeniably) awesome in about 20 games, as opposed to Gomes who was oustanding for 40? Bale played about 10 games more than King but was phenomenal for all of them. There was also a patch in the winter where we were struggling to find form and Bale was the only one able to make a difference in the games.

Same with Lennon, he was fantastic for the 20 games he made, and as such Tom/Wilson/Modders became more vital for us over the season. In the games they played the likes of King and Lennon contributed hugely and played fantastic. But because over season their appearances were limited for whatever reason, the other players contributed more, simply because they played more.

It may sound unfair and skewed, but similarly to say that a player who gave everything over season should not be recognised in favour of a player who was only able to play half a seasons worth, for no other reason than simply not being as naturally gifted, is also a bit unfair.

Therefore, we can see from this series of motm polls who the most consistently key and important players over a season, who made a difference, on the day, really are.

Another triffic post.

[Gino Ginelli]

I thought it was Bale just about over Lennon. Lennon is way back. Then I'd go with Gomes third.

Fair enough, and I'm sure your voting on the motm threads over the season reflected that.

[irishspur]

Theres a reason why defoe has very few points, he scores goals but doesnt stand out for his performance at times, although his hold up play has improved a lot. Bale deserves it, i was watching the irish version of match of the day and he made it into all three pundits teams of the season, while daws was in two of them.

[olly27]

Theres a reason why defoe has very few points, he scores goals but doesnt stand out for his performance at times, although his hold up play has improved a lot. Bale deserves it, i was watching the irish version of match of the day and he made it into all three pundits teams of the season, while daws was in two of them.

But my point about Defoe was in comparison to JJ. How the hell can Jenas accrue more points.

Obviously JJ lovers were out in force at one point, because I certainly cant remember one good game from him this season.

His cameo against Blackurn away being the highlight of his season.

[TURKISH]

But my point about Defoe was in comparison to JJ. How the hell can Jenas accrue more points.

Obviously JJ lovers were out in force at one point, because I certainly cant remember one good game from him this season.

His cameo against Blackurn away being the highlight of his season.

He got his points against: Bolton away 3points, pompey away 1 points, stoke home 3 points and 6 points away from hom against Liverpool.

[spursmadnick06]

Why the suprise about the Jenas points, everyone know he can be fantastic one game and then go back to being average.

[olly27]

Why the suprise about the Jenas points, everyone know he can be fantastic one game and then go back to being average.

In relation to Defoe's I mean, he is after all our top goal scorer despite his other limitations.

I just cant fathom that Jenas accrued more points in the league than our top goal scorer, having only played a bit part role and for the most part not that well either.

But there you go lol.

[Gino Ginelli]

Well I think it's just representative of which player made the difference on the day over the course of a whole season. I don't think how the points break down is too important, more the actual result in this case.

[olly27]

Well I think it's just representative of which player made the difference on the day over the course of a whole season. I don't think how the points break down is too important, more the actual result in this case.

Of course. But bear in mind if we have an off day, and you have to vote for somebody when your hard up as they were all under par..someone gets max points compared to when the team plays a blinder all over the pitch, like against Chelsea, Arse and City etc....somebody in fourth place gets no points and in reality had a much better performance.

But same rules for everybody!

[choda]

Fair enough, and I'm sure your voting on the motm threads over the season reflected that.

Probably not, you are not getting what I'm saying. The system itself is flawed. Not even I think Corluka should be dead last, not by a long shot, and I'm not a big fan of him at full back.

[choda]

Err... first off Crouch has been damn important to our league performance, and has stood out because of his towering performances and key goals.

Secondly I think it's perfectly fair. King should be player of the season because he was (undeniably) awesome in about 20 games, as opposed to Gomes who was oustanding for 40? Bale played about 10 games more than King but was phenomenal for all of them. There was also a patch in the winter where we were struggling to find form and Bale was the only one able to make a difference in the games.

Same with Lennon, he was fantastic for the 20 games he made, but because he only managed that many Tom/Wilson/Modders became more vital for us over the season. In the games they played the likes of King and Lennon contributed hugely and played fantastic. But because over season their appearances were limited for whatever reason, the other players contributed more, simply because they played more.

It may sound unfair and skewed, but similarly to say that a player who gave everything over season should not be recognised in favour of a player who was only able to play half a seasons worth, for no other reason than simply not being as naturally gifted, is also a bit unfair.

Therefore, we can see from this series of motm polls who the most consistently key and important players over a season, who made a difference, on the day, really are.

I was also taking into account games played too as I made a point of comparing in my post. It's clearly flawed in many regards. Again I'm pretty flabbergasted the things people will argue about at times. Can't we get to the real nitty gritty issues instead of arguing over things that are pretty clear?

This system has not given a great represention, it's given a very rough guide which in many regards has very much misrepresented contribution.

Not arguing that Crouch hasn't contributed to us doing well either btw, just in comparison to other players the results are quite odd. There are many other examples too, as pointed out.

[olly27]

Put it like this I am sure if I looked at my individual votes attributed to all those MOM editions they would be different if I were to make a list of which squad players performed the best to worst over the course of the season right now.

Although Bale and Gomes would be right up there for me, if I were doing a list right now. As to Dawson, followed by Hudd, Lennon etc.

[choda]

Put it like this I am sure if I looked at my individual votes attrituted to all those MOM editions they would be different if I were to make a list of which squad players performed the best to worst over the course of the season right now.

Although Bale and Gomes would be right up there for me, if I were doing a list right now. As to Dawson, followed by Hudd, Lennon etc.

Yea, exactly, and it would be signficantly different in terms of the distribution of value this season as well.

Two of the best examples are probably Charlie and Dawson. Charlie was consistently decent, so got dick. Dawson was consistently good to very good and got dick all too.

In other words the more up and down you were the more you benefited. This method is flawed in many regards.

I'm not Dawsons biggest fan compared to other people, even though I like him, but telling me he hasn't been one of the biggest contributors or that it was one eighth of Bale's is just rubbish to me. Jermain Defoe half that of Crouch despite starting way more games too, one eight of Bale even though he started double the games roughly, gimme a break.

[Rojoknapp]

Bloody hell it was only meant to be a bit of fun... does it really matter if it doesn't actually rank the players in the right order?

[TURKISH]

Bloody hell it was only meant to be a bit of fun... does it really matter if it doesn't actually rank the players in the right order?

Thank you, me and Gino put alot of hard effort into this only it to be slagged off once its all done.

I don't know why I bother at times.

[Gino Ginelli]

Probably not, you are not getting what I'm saying. The system itself is flawed. Not even I think Corluka should be dead last, not by a long shot, and I'm not a big fan of him at full back.

No, I didn't think I was ... :001_rolleyes:

It's amazing the number of people on here who "just don't get what your saying"

[earl warwick]

Jenas level with Dawson in the league?

THFCTalk members need to have a strong word with themselves. :glare:

Does anyone know what choda was saying?

[earl warwick]

Thank you, me and Gino put alot of hard effort into this only it to be slagged off once its all done.

I don't know why I bother at times.

You slaaagggg! You muppet!

Sharon's gonna need to have anuvva strong word wiv ya. :fight:

[Gino Ginelli]

You slaaagggg! You muppet!

Sharon's gonna need to have anuvva strong word wiv ya. :fight:

Out of decaff?

[Gino Ginelli]

Right, just to clarify for all you moaning, we are not the fvcking PFA.

It's simply the results of who got the most THFCTalk man of the matches this season, as voted by you, the posters.

Simples. Yes?

[matthius23]

I think the results are pretty much correct... I expected to see Gomes and Bale up there.

Just think it's been put together a bit weirdly.

Makes it look like Gomes and Bale both won 49 League MOTM... despite only playing a possible maximum 38 games?

[Gino Ginelli]

Nah, it's just a points system we used in the process.

There were 3 places in each MOTM poll: 3rd, runner up and MOTM itself. The points were 1pt, 3pts and 6pts respectively. It just totted it all up and hey presto.

[matthius23]

Now I'm with ya...

Okay it makes perfect sense, as you were everyone :001_smile:

[TURKISH]

You slaaagggg! You muppet!

Sharon's gonna need to have anuvva strong word wiv ya. :fight:

:laugh: What are you on at times.

[choda]

Bloody hell it was only meant to be a bit of fun... does it really matter if it doesn't actually rank the players in the right order?

Exactly, it is interesting and a bit of fun, that's exactly what I said. And I also said fair play to them for doing it. But they are trying to say it is accurate, when it isn't, it's actually pretty skewed, not by my analysis but by any objective measure.

If you tabled up player ratings for each game you'd get a very different picture and far more accurate one. I didn't really think about this either until I saw the end results, so not trying to say they were idiots to do it or anything.

Good experiment and a worthwhile exercise, so well done. But yer too close to yer work it would seem because ye're talking shite.

[choda]

No, I didn't think I was ... :001_rolleyes:

It's amazing the number of people on here who "just don't get what your saying"

Yea, don't know why I come on here at times. A lot of people on here at times have all the 'I'll never admit I'm wrong' or else the logical capacity of an ameoba.

I'd expect more common sense from the Turk on this one. At least he doesn't dig his heels in at every opportunity and can take a step back and see some sense. And he can admit when he's wrong, like I will too, if I am.

[Baleinho]

Ahhh the squabbles. Takes me back.

Just want to say, great work on the POTY thing. Was a great and innovative idea to go through the forum :)

I think a simpler way of doing this would be to in effect eliminate the points system and have a 'Vote for one player'. For instance:

MOM vs Chelsea -

Gomes: 6
Dawson: 4
Defoe: 3
Huddlestone: 2
Bale:2

Gomes had 6 votes. He is MOM, rest do not get any points/ mention. The tally ramps up throughout the season, with Gomes having 14 MOM's, Dawson having 10 etc. Come the end of the season, Gomes wins due to having the most MOM awards.

would that be easier?

[Rojoknapp]

Ahhh the squabbles. Takes me back.

Just want to say, great work on the POTY thing. Was a great and innovative idea to go through the forum :)

I think a simpler way of doing this would be to in effect eliminate the points system and have a 'Vote for one player'. For instance:

MOM vs Chelsea -

Gomes: 6
Dawson: 4
Defoe: 3
Huddlestone: 2
Bale:2

Gomes had 6 votes. He is MOM, rest do not get any points/ mention. The tally ramps up throughout the season, with Gomes having 14 MOM's, Dawson having 10 etc. Come the end of the season, Gomes wins due to having the most MOM awards.

would that be easier?

I see what you're saying, buuuuuuuuuuut... the problem is when we have a game like Wigan at home for example - several outstanding performances but only one player from the whole team (Defoe in this case) would get any recognition which seems kinda unfair?

[Gino Ginelli]

Yea, don't know why I come on here at times. A lot of people on here at times have all the 'I'll never admit I'm wrong' or else the logical capacity of an ameoba.

I'd expect more common sense from the Turk on this one. At least he doesn't dig his heels in at every opportunity and can take a step back and see some sense. And he can admit when he's wrong, like I will too, if I am.

Aww bless. How hard it must be for you to have to cope with us intellectual novices. If only we could grasp the same radical and unconventional thought processes that you so obviously possess! :alberteinstein:

[TURKISH]

Yea, don't know why I come on here at times. A lot of people on here at times have all the 'I'll never admit I'm wrong' or else the logical capacity of an ameoba.

I'd expect more common sense from the Turk on this one. At least he doesn't dig his heels in at every opportunity and can take a step back and see some sense. And he can admit when he's wrong, like I will too, if I am.

Lets all get along and make love?

http://thelodownnow.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/barry_white.jpg

[olly27]

Yea, don't know why I come on here at times. A lot of people on here at times have all the 'I'll never admit I'm wrong' or else the logical capacity of an ameoba.

I'd expect more common sense from the Turk on this one. At least he doesn't dig his heels in at every opportunity and can take a step back and see some sense. And he can admit when he's wrong, like I will too, if I am.

Flip me I know that feeling!

[TURKISH]

Flip me I know that feeling!

:laugh: :santaclaus:

[Gino Ginelli]

Can't argue with the Walrus of Luuurve

[earl warwick]

Yea, don't know why I come on here at times. A lot of people on here at times have all the 'I'll never admit I'm wrong' or else the logical capacity of an ameoba.

I'd expect more common sense from the Turk on this one. At least he doesn't dig his heels in at every opportunity and can take a step back and see some sense. And he can admit when he's wrong, like I will too, if I am.

Shurely(sic) "amoeba"?

I expect no sense from T. I'm usually well rewarded! :playingball:

[choda]

Aww bless. How hard it must be for you to have to cope with us intellectual novices. If only we could grasp the same radical and unconventional thought processes that you so obviously possess! :alberteinstein:

Oh yea, so radical and unconventional to say Dawson wasn't half as important as Crouch. That Defoe was one seventh as important as Bale despite even playing almost double the games. I mean what was I thinking. :001_rolleyes:

This is the kind of logic some of you back at times and stick to for love nor money. So progressive, intellectually brilliant and mature.

[Gino Ginelli]

I think that you missed that I was getting at how you just made a sweeping accusation about other posters of a behaviour that you yourself are the worse culprit of.

And for the last time, we are NOT the PFA. This isn't an in depth analysis of each player. Just the fecking MOTM awards from a bloody internet forum. Stop taking everything so bloody seriously and picking every last bloody thing apart and just enjoy yourself.

I bet you're a hoot in the pub when someone tells an Englishman, Irishman and Scotsman joke. You'd probably start a diatrabe on how it's so typically empirical that the Englishman comes first, the social psycholgy of having those three nationalities as a trio of friends, and the damning prejudices of the world by having the Irishman the object of hilarity and scorn in each one (it's called a joke).

Lighten up FFS! :santaclaus:

[olly27]

I think that you missed that I was getting at how you just made a sweeping accusation about other posters of a behaviour that you yourself are the worse culprit of.

And for the last time, we are NOT the PFA. This isn't an in depth analysis of each player. Just the fecking MOTM awards from a bloody internet forum. Stop taking everything so bloody seriously and picking every last bloody thing apart and just enjoy yourself.

I bet you're a hoot in the pub when someone tells an Englishman, Irishman and Scotsman joke. You'd probably start a diatrabe on how it's so typically empirical that the Englishman comes first, the social psycholgy of having those three nationalities as a trio of friends, and the damning prejudices of the world by having the Irishman the object of hilarity and scorn in each one (it's called a joke).

Lighten up FFS! :santaclaus:

lol...ok that really did make me laugh!

[choda]

I think that you missed that I was getting at how you just made a sweeping accusation about other posters of a behaviour that you yourself are the worse culprit of.

And for the last time, we are NOT the PFA. This isn't an in depth analysis of each player. Just the fecking MOTM awards from a bloody internet forum. Stop taking everything so bloody seriously and picking every last bloody thing apart and just enjoy yourself.

I bet you're a hoot in the pub when someone tells an Englishman, Irishman and Scotsman joke. You'd probably start a diatrabe on how it's so typically empirical that the Englishman comes first, the social psycholgy of having those three nationalities as a trio of friends, and the damning prejudices of the world by having the Irishman the object of hilarity and scorn in each one (it's called a joke).

Lighten up FFS! :santaclaus:

You weren't joking you tw*t. If it was a joke then it would be all in jest. You were saying it was right. I was saying it was just a bit of fun. Great cop out.

And I'm not the worst culprit, it's just that you happen to disagree a lot of the time, can't admit when you are wrong and then come up with points that often have little logic to them.

I can always admit when I'm wrong. If I am wrong you will even see me reverse my opinion in the middle of a debate, like I've done loads of times when people prove me wrong with better logic or facts.

And I will admit when I'm wrong over a longer time like I was with Dawson and Hudd, because I got it all wrong.

You'd never do that so there is as much sense in those ramblings as saying I lack a sense of humour.

It's just difficult dealing with people like yourself on a forum who often act like exasperating dolts. I probably should be more tolerant, but then it's oh so charming when someone tells you are talking crap even when you know you are right and its actually pretty obvious.

Funny how this happens all the time on forums repeatedly if anyone ever properly participates. I don't encounter this bollocks in real life at all.

You'd probably be really surprised at how I am in the real world, in fact I'm told I don't take things serious enough! Just like you probably aren't close to as big an egotistal incoherent twit as you seem to me.

Maybe forums should be banned!

[Gino Ginelli]

You seem a very angry man sometimes...

And I don't recall ever using obsceneties to you either. I'd appreciate the same from a supposedly "reasonable" individual.

No one ever said you were talking crap either. You're quite happy to throw that about yourself though.

And yes you are the worst culprit for exactly that behaviour. Have a good look over your posting history. Every, and I mean every regular poster on this forum has had exactly the same problems with you time and time again. People have left because of you.

And I'll say it again. Leaving the boards for 3 months 'cause your boy left then come swanning back on here with your piety towards everyone when it looks like we're doing well doesn't endear you to anyone.

You bring the place down when you start going on like this. If you're so exasperated with no one understanding you then give us all a break and don't bother.

[choda]

You seem a very angry man sometimes...

And I don't recall ever using obsceneties to you either. I'd appreciate the same from a supposedly "reasonable" individual.

No one ever said you were talking crap either. You're quite happy to throw that about yourself though.

And yes you are the worst culprit for exactly that behaviour. Have a good look over your posting history. Every, and I mean every regular poster on this forum has had exactly the same problems with you time and time again. People have left because of you.

And I'll say it again. Leaving the boards for 3 months 'cause your boy left then come swanning back on here with your piety towards everyone when it looks like we're doing well doesn't endear you to anyone.

You bring the place down when you start going on like this. If you're so exasperated with no one understanding you then give us all a break and don't bother.

It's all from your perspective and to think I think it is distorted and inaccurate would be an understatement. And you have to bring up Keane again, which has little to do with anything. I left for three weeks, not three months, because I had a lot on and also because I was fed up of Crouch and Defoe starting at that time.

That's was an objection to long ball and us sliding away from fourth, nothing directly to do with Keane. And again the distortion of me being a fair weather fan. Oh so that isn't the worst insult to a yid and then if I call you a c*nt for it I'm the bad guy.

I never jumped when we were bottom of the table, never. All I said was PC-JD as a pair will cause problems and I hate watching it. When they stopped playing it we started doing well again and I came back. If I stayed you'd have complained about me complaining. You can't win with some people. It's just a forum. Be fair, be rational, be willing to listen and admit when you are wrong and then there are no problems.

I can get a load of posters that think you are a jumped up power tripper with a stick up his ass too. It's all relative because this isn't close to reality, it's a forum. A mod is a not a leader either by the way, it is a peacekeeper.

If I'm guilty of anything is I've such a low tolerance for spoofers and people that like to try to shit on someone for having a different opinion and then I hit back harder.

But ask Kevspur if I treated him badly. So many disagreed with him, I did too, but we just had a ding dong and a chat. We knew what it was, and that is it. Many were insulting him and calling him a muppet FIRST OFF, which he rightly thought was out of order. I NEVER do that.

He was rational in his WAY of debating which makes him head and shoulders above many posters, however much I disagree with him.

Some of you didn't treat me well when I had maverick opinions, and yes you were saying I was talking shite, just bumming Keane, obsessed and I wouldn't mind but I knew I was right and was proven so as when Crouch Jd was broken up and we a hold up/link man back we shot up the table again.

That's when all of this started so don't act like you are blameless, some of you were actually the cause.

This all started because of a maverick opinion and some posters not seeing it as early. Simple as that.

This is not a stupid crusade. Far from it, I just stated my opinion and the reaction was appalling, disrespectful and very unfair so an argument started. It's all a load of bollocks.

[Gino Ginelli]

Yep, we're all wrong except you. I get it... :001_rolleyes:

[olly27]

It's all from your perspective and to think I think it is distorted and inaccurate would be an understatement. And you have to bring up Keane again, which has little to do with anything. I left for three weeks, not three months, because I had a lot on and also because I was fed up of Crouch and Defoe starting at that time.

That's was an objection to long ball and us sliding away from fourth, nothing directly to do with Keane. And again the distortion of me being a fair weather fan. Oh so that isn't the worst insult to a yid and then if I call you a c*nt for it I'm the bad guy.

I never jumped when we were bottom of the table, never. All I said was PC-JD as a pair will cause problems and I hate watching it. When they stopped playing it we started doing well again and I came back. If I stayed you'd have complained about me complaining. You can't win with some people. It's just a forum. Be fair, be rational, be willing to listen and admit when you are wrong and then there are no problems.

I can get a load of posters that think you are a jumped up power tripper with a stick up his ass too. It's all relative because this isn't close to reality, it's a forum. A mod is a not a leader either by the way, it is a peacekeeper.

If I'm guilty of anything is I've such a low tolerance for spoofers and people that like to try to shit on someone for having a different opinion and then I hit back harder.

But ask Kevspur if I treated him badly. So many disagreed with him, I did too, but we just had a ding dong and a chat. We knew what it was, and that is it. Many were insulting him and calling him a muppet FIRST OFF, which he rightly thought was out of order. I NEVER do that.

He was rational in his WAY of debating which makes him head and shoulders above many posters, however much I disagree with him.

Some of you didn't treat me well when I had maverick opinions, and yes you were saying I was talking shite, just bumming Keane, obsessed and I wouldn't mind but I knew I was right and was proven so as when Crouch Jd was broken up and we a hold up/link man back we shot up the table again.

That's when all of this started so don't act like you are blameless, some of you were actually the cause.

This all started because of a maverick opinion and some posters not seeing it as early. Simple as that.

This is not a stupid crusade. Far from it, I just stated my opinion and the reaction was appalling, disrespectful and very unfair so an argument started. It's all a load of bollocks.

Your still missing the point, starting Crouch and Defoe has yielded us important points at certain times and it was correct to do so for some games, I emphasise some - even though it can compromise our playing style. Harry has used the squad to the full, and its because of the strength and depth and Harry's ability to get the best out of all of them as to why we were so successful this season.

Anyway, lets not go there, your still very much of the opinion that you were proved right, and you really dont listen (read) to what others are saying. Its actually staggering the way your portraying it all.

What I think really pisses you off is that we did it without Keane and all this arguing is just an extension of that. I argued with you at the time that it was the right decision to loan Keane out - it was.

The first thing you came on and said after qualifying for the CL was about Crouch/Defoe and how it was wrong to start them...who gives a **** at that point we had just qualified for the CL. Furthermore it was the correct decision to start them.

Maverick opinions, or biased ones that cloud your own judgement? Nice euphemism there, albeit unintentional.

[TURKISH]

Do I need to bring out Mr Barry White again? Because people just totally ignored the man!!!:001_rolleyes:

[apr82]

danny rose followed by wondercat from you tube
:rofl::rofl:

[choda]

Your still missing the point, starting Crouch and Defoe has yielded us important points at certain times and it was correct to do so for some games, I emphasise some - even though it can compromise our playing style. Harry has used the squad to the full, and its because of the strength and depth and Harry's ability to get the best out of all of them as to why we were so successful this season.

Anyway, lets not go there, your still very much of the opinion that you were proved right, and you really dont listen (read) to what others are saying. Its actually staggering the way your portraying it all.

What I think really pisses you off is that we did it without Keane and all this arguing is just an extension of that. I argued with you at the time that it was the right decision to loan Keane out - it was.

The first thing you came on and said after qualifying for the CL was about Crouch/Defoe and how it was wrong to start them...who gives a **** at that point we had just qualified for the CL. Furthermore it was the correct decision to start them.

Maverick opinions, or biased ones that cloud your own judgement? Nice euphemism there, albeit unintentional.

You just don't get it at all, as proven by even thinking it is just that I'm pissed off we did it without Keane. I mean that's just retarded.

I've always said we just need someone to hold the ball up or link the play, Keane, Pav or Eidur I really don't care. Your basics is to have at least one of them on the pitch. No matter what system, no matter what way you play ball retention and quality play is a basic of the game.

Again, check the league points with Defoe and Crouch compared to others. I mean if you don't believe me that its a big problem in performance - maybe a look at the points will do it.

Oh we won some games with them, of course we did, its a bloody good team that would still win games despite an imbalance, a lack of consistent quality moves and poor ball retention with that pair up front. And they can be good themselves when they get into position. That's not the point!

The point is we hadn't a notion of cl at the end of the two months of that pair being first choice, we were slipping out of contention from a great position and we'd have been lucky to finish 8th the way it was going. Thankfully it was changed and when it was brought back it was too late to cause any serious damage over a long spell!

Also note the last three games they started after a long spell where it was abandoned. A long spell where we were blinding. Then we lose to Pompey and Burnley in three starts. Not a great example but further illustrates very clear spells earlier in the year and the awful trouble keeping the ball/getting some quality passing moves together that showed up once again versus Pompey and City. Thankfully City were really shit at the back and we were great at the back on the night.

Not proven? Are you actually having a laugh? Some of you had the gall to be abusive on a simple disagreement and then when it was proven you couldn't even have the grace to admit you were wrong and apologise for being a c*nt for so long.

And I'm far from alone in thinking these things about PC and JD as a pair Gino as much as you love to be smarmy and think everything you think is 'everybody knows'. What does what most think matter anyway when you see some of the things the majority have gotten so totally wrong?

Have a read of these comments on a spurs article. Some quality knowledgable comments:

peterballb 'I love the revisionism. So Defoe was great for 2/3 of the season, was he? 13 goals in our first 13 PL games (5 against Wigan, 3 against Hull - 5 in the other 8 - suspension for red card). Since then he has scored 5 goals in 26 or so PL games, most of which he was partnered with Peter Crouch, not Pav. You're correct though, Pav and Defoe doesn't work. Pav does work well with his national team strikers, so we know he can partner with other players and his play with Modric on the left for 4 games or so starting with his sub appearance against Wigan (first action in 6 months) was dynamic and fruitful to say the least. But it's Pav. Defoe/Crouch has not worked. Keane/Defoe didn't really work either did it? Nor Mido/Defoe. Nor Berbatov/Defoe. Nor Bent/Defoe. If only someone were good enough to play with Defoe? Why do we keep getting him crap to work with? I mean it can't be him? The fact that he is still always offside, still scores in bunches, still goes absent for months at a time. None of that's him. Oh yeah, he doesn't work well with the crap England striker Rooney either. I'm certain that Fabiano, or Dzeko, or Suarez, or Falcao or Lukaku will all love to be part of his insightful runs, and quick 1-2's that just open up so much room. The first problem is Defoe. The second problem is HR plays him even though he's been crap since November. Pick on Pav all you want, but 10 or so starts a season, while having to play with Defoe or Crouch is not going to bring out the best in anyone. Yes Pav is lazy, but so is Berbatov. Neither work well with Defoe. Man they suck. We won't get Tevez, but that's the first thing you've stated that has any fact associated with it at all. Shame Harry didn't play Eidur behind Pav or Defoe so we could see the value that he could bring to the squad. But Crouch must be our best striker because he played in every game. Indispensable. Strikers need a complete overhaul. Bring in Dzeko or Suarez and Lukaku and then we'll be lethal. COYS'

Hmm, great post, making me think Defoe is nearly as much a problem as Crouch in the JD and Crouch pairing than I had even latched onto. This dude has revised my opinion because his logic is so good. Still think its not a major issue at least if one of them plays with a good hold up/link man. But for progess you probably need to take both out of the first choice and we will hopefully do that by buying someone unreal.

Heres' another one:

'Ive been challenging mates on that Defoe issue for an age now. Like Peter Balib says...all these partners and yet some struggle to do such simple arithmetic. He scores less then
Fat Lampard and has only a third of Ronneys desire and awareness . Oh and touch and vision and passing range, If he was'nt a spursman I'd go in harder. One last one actually, has he ever been taught the offside rule. Now, is Crouch not the anti footballer that has steeredour play in the direction of say Wigans. Time after time this guy's touch is worse than Pav's and his physical conditioning is non existent what exactly are his strength's, as shit as Keane became ...atleast he always had a go at doing something other than just leaning all over deffnders conceeding free kicks and bouncing the ball away from his ankle/chest/face/foot. For me had he not scored against City ...I'd of flogged him, literally.
CRouch fuc** up the involvement of intelligent footballers who have creativity. When mod plays with pav and eider we looklike genuine CL and premier enteties imo, the rest of thetime we are just a bit flat and generally lack that cutting edge that is well within our capabilities.'

How dare they, eh? I mean its soo maverick.

I would have thought the situation was obvious after three games of it, not to mind after a year of it playing out, but yet among some of the regulars on here these guys would be outlandish... unconventional... maverick, even if they were right! AND get lambasted for it! I don't expect a well done and sorry for all the schtick you took, but a humble acknowledgement that I was right all along would be what you'd expect off decent people.

Earlier in the year when there was no Eidur or Pav they probably talked about Keane needing to play. So then they must just be Keane bummers!

And now of course they are just pissed off that we haven't done it with Keane. :001_rolleyes:

[berbzy 'G']

Its been a long season compiling and doing these threads week in week out. I think its a great way to see who's THFCTalk player of the season is.

A special thanks to GG for doing the spread sheet and making it very easy for a numpty like me to follow.:santaclaus:


League FA Cup League Cup Overall
Heurelho Gomes 49 3 3 55
David Button 0 0 0 0
Ben Alnwick 0 0 0 0
Carlo Cudicini 6 0 3 9

Gareth Bale 49 24 10 83
Sebastien Bassong 12 0 0 12
Kyle Walker 1 0 0 1
Benoit Assou-Ekotto 11 1 0 12
Kyle Walker 0 0 0 0
Michael Dawson 13 0 0 13
Vedran Corluka 0 0 0 0
Kaboul 7 0 0 7
Ledley King 26 0 0 26

Danny Rose 0 0 0 0
Jermaine Jenas 13 0 0 13
Tom Huddlestone 29 1 0 30
Niko Krancjar 30 0 0 30
Wilson Palacios 28 12 0 40
David Bentley 4 13 12 29
Jamie O'Hara 0 0 1 1
Luka Modric 30 3 0 33
Aaron Lennon 21 0 3 24

Jermain Defoe 12 3 0 15
Robbie Keane 15 0 0 15
Roman Pavlyuchenko 4 9 0 13
Peter Crouch 23 0 6 29
EG 6 3 0 9


Bale played how many games in the prem this season? But still managed to win joint first with Gomes who is a GK. Impressive stuff from them two.

Corluka got zero points.

Palacios at one stage early on in the season was running away with it. But when he found his brother who died things went down hill and he turned into Zokora 2 but shitter passing.

Bentley was our best player in the CC.:001_rolleyes:

You got that right

[olly27]

Choda I do get it. All I am saying is that in certain games it has proved to be effective and has picked us some important points in the season that has certainly contributed to our tally of 70 points. For the last time I am not arguing that it should be our first choice partnership because it shouldn't, I am simply saying it has been effective at certain stages in the season. Harry has used this squad to the full and got the best out of them - thats were the success really lies, no matter who the personnel have been at various stages of the season. His predecessors failed to an extent, well Ramos certainly did given the players he had at his disposal. In terms of our success thats been the real difference for me this season.

Infact I would say Robbie Keane was the only one this season that Harry failed to get the best out of, perhaps thats why he was loaned out. Not like thats Harry's fault of course.

Anyway hopefully we will see a world class CF in over the summer and onwards and upwards.

At the end of the day we can go round and round in cirlces with this but lets just agree to disagree and move on.

Off to bed because your last post knackered me :santaclaus:

[deadleyledley]

what strikes me most is that the player who was voted player of the season only got 13 points.

how is that possble. funny how things change over the course of the season.

[choda]

Choda I do get it. All I am saying is that in certain games it has proved to be effective and has picked us some important points in the season that has certainly contributed to our tally of 70 points. For the last time I am not arguing that it should be our first choice partnership because it shouldn't, I am simply saying it has been effective at certain stages in the season. Harry has used this squad to the full and got the best out of them - thats were the success really lies, no matter who the personnel have been at various stages of the season. His predecessors failed to an extent, well Ramos certainly did given the players he had at his disposal. In terms of our success thats been the real difference for me this season.

Infact I would say Robbie Keane was the only one this season that Harry failed to get the best out of, perhaps thats why he was loaned out. Not like thats Harry's fault of course.

Anyway hopefully we will see a world class CF in over the summer and onwards and upwards.

At the end of the day we can go round and round in cirlces with this but lets just agree to disagree and move on.

Off to bed because your last post knackered me :santaclaus:

Harry is an excellent manager and was excellent in almost every regard aside from some blatent errors at certain points. Crouch and Defoe playing together, subsitution errors in the first half of the year, lack of know how in changing tactics against park the bus teams and bizarre team selections and tactics in three of the first four top side clashes being the big errors which did cost us about 12 points overall.

But he did so much right in other regards he got away with that in getting top four. He has also been different class to our other recent coaches going back two decades! He also tends to learn from mistakes so I'm hardly critical of Harry at all and hope he gets years at this job to have a tilt at all the opportunity coming his way to really do special things.

In fact second half of the year I'd describe his management as near flawless apart from the last three games when he had to go back to Crouch and JD and we had two bad losses and a performance at City where we gave up so much of the ball it was lucky the defence was majestic and City wilted.

I hope he's learned his lesson on that one, because his subsitutions and big game performance improved dramatically in the second half of the year and on top of his other attributes, which are many, he could be sensational and with a few more good signings even win the league or cl!

[olly27]

Harry is an excellent manager and was excellent in almost every regard aside from some blatent errors at certain points. Crouch and Defoe playing together, subsitution errors in the first half of the year, lack of know how in changing tactics against park the bus teams and bizarre team selections and tactics in three of the first four top side clashes being the big errors which did cost us about 12 points overall.

But he did so much right in other regards he got away with that in getting top four. He has also been different class to our other recent coaches going back two decades! He also tends to learn from mistakes so I'm hardly critical of Harry at all and hope he gets years at this job to have a tilt at all the opportunity coming his way to really do special things.

In fact second half of the year I'd describe his management as near flawless apart from the last three games when he had to go back to Crouch and JD and we had two bad losses and a performance at City where we gave up so much of the ball it was lucky the defence was majestic and City wilted.

I hope he's learned his lesson on that one, because his subsitutions and big game performance improved dramatically in the second half of the year and on top of his other attributes, which are many, he could be sensational and with a few more good signings even win the league or cl!

To be honest mate, unless Crouch is going to be sold its more than likely you will see that again at various points this season when the conditions or circumstances demand it.

Anyway where have you been?

[TURKISH]

To be honest mate, unless Crouch is going to be sold its more than likely you will see that again at various points this season when the conditions or circumstances demand it.

[B]Anyway where have you been?

X-Factor auditions have began.

http://shirleybassey.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/louis.jpg

[choda]

To be honest mate, unless Crouch is going to be sold its more than likely you will see that again at various points this season when the conditions or circumstances demand it.

Anyway where have you been?

I fail to see where a lack of quality hold up in bringing the play together and giving up possession cheaply is ever demanded, even if we got away with it at times. When it got a run the results were poor and the performances deteriorated badly.

I can see the logic in going for Crouch and Eidur in certain games where Eidur can fill in the gaps of the PC-JD pair, but the latter is never a goer in any game as far as I'm concerned, much like playing Gerrard and Lampard is never a goer in central midfield.

You might still do well in some games if other things go right and if there are good things in other positions, but it is so lacking in part of the basics of any team I'd see it as a disaster bound to rear up over time or when you least want it to happen.

I nearly had a stroke when I saw the teamsheet for City, thankfully we got away with it that night, but the FA cup was a different story. Our quality of football and ball retention was greatly diminished in both games.

As for me I've been working hard, drinking, soaking up the sun and playing golf.

[olly27]

I fail to see where a lack of quality hold up in bringing the play together and giving up possession cheaply is ever demanded, even if we got away with it at times. When it got a run the results were poor and the performances deteriorated badly.

I can see the logic in going for Crouch and Eidur in certain games where Eidur can fill in the gaps of the PC-JD pair, but the latter is never a goer in any game as far as I'm concerned, much like playing Gerrard and Lampard is never a goer in central midfield.

You might still do well in some games if other things go right and if there are good things in other positions, but it is so lacking in part of the basics of any team I'd see it as a disaster bound to rear up over time or when you least want it to happen.

I nearly had a stroke when I saw the teamsheet for City, thankfully we got away with it that night, but the FA cup was a different story. Our quality of football and ball retention was greatly diminished in both games.

As for me I've been working hard, drinking, soaking up the sun and playing golf.


As for the team sheet against City we didn't get away with anything that night, we were clearly the better side and the game had absolutely massive signifcance so I doubt Harry just stumbles on an eleven to play and hopes for the best!

A bit of thought went in to it. We also 'got away with it' when those two started up top when we beat them 3-0 at WHL!

One of the biggest games in Harry's Club career and you dont think he is confident in terms of his selection and the decisions he makes. Its not a case of getting away with it, he believes he is fielding the best team to win us the game and we are talking about a guy who has huge experience - in reality I might add.

So I was pleased he went for those two that particular night as they had caused them problems previously.

The reality is we got top 4, and sometimes playing Crouch and Defoe worked, others time it didn't. I think in the main Harry got his team selections pretty spot on, bar the start of the season against the top 4 - when Keane was on the left etc. He had different combinations to use upfront and tweaked them according to certaing games.

[choda]

As for the team sheet against City we didn't get away with anything that night, we were clearly the better side and the game had absolutely massive signifcance so I doubt Harry just stumbles on an eleven to play and hopes for the best!

A bit of thought went in to it. We also 'got away with it' when those two started up top when we beat them 3-0 at WHL!

One of the biggest games in Harry's Club career and you dont think he is confident in terms of his selection and the decisions he makes. Its not a case of getting away with it, he believes he is fielding the best team to win us the game and we are talking about a guy who has huge experience - in reality I might add.

So I was pleased he went for those two that particular night as they had caused them problems previously.

The reality is we got top 4, and sometimes playing Crouch and Defoe worked, others time it didn't. I think in the main Harry got his team selections pretty spot on, bar the start of the season against the top 4 - when Keane was on the left etc. He had different combinations to use upfront and tweaked them according to certaing games.

One thing he got right v City was to start Crouch because he caused them kittens in the air. Starting Defoe rather than Eidur alongside caused ball retention problems that could have easily cost us. When the ball keeps bouncing back it leaves you open to big trouble.

But if the rest of your team is doing well and the other team isn't playing particularly well, then it may not be a problem on particular nights. It's a lot more simple than 1+1 which is why I refer to longer term problems/results that crop up with that pair that may or may not show up in the result of one or two games. However I and many others can always see the problems in the performance when both of those start as a pair.

Just because Harry achieved top four doesn't mean he didn't make mistakes along the way or is always correct in his decisions. In fact it really just illustrates how good he is in most regards and actually how far tottenham can go when we get all the foundations right like Manu etc generally do.

Overall, he's doing a smashing job and (ups and downs aside) has gradually gotten better and better in his own performance too so I hope it continues.

[olly27]

One thing he got right v City was to start Crouch because he caused them kittens in the air. Starting Defoe rather than Eidur alongside caused ball retention problems that could have easily cost us. When the ball keeps bouncing back it leaves you open to big trouble.

But if the rest of your team is doing well and the other team isn't playing particularly well, then it may not be a problem on particular nights. It's a lot more simple than 1+1 which is why I refer to longer term problems/results that crop up with that pair that may or may not show up in the result of one or two games. However I and many others can always see the problems in the performance when both of those start as a pair.

Just because Harry achieved top four doesn't mean he didn't make mistakes along the way or is always correct in his decisions. In fact it really just illustrates how good he is in most regards and actually how far tottenham can go when we get all the foundations right like Manu etc generally do.

Overall, he's doing a smashing job and (ups and downs aside) has gradually gotten better and better in his own performance too so I hope it continues.

Yes, and I can as well - for sure. But in some instances it works. All I am saying whatever way we play next season, if we have those 2 strikers out of 4 say, that at some points during the season they will end up playing together.

Its about results at the end of the day, and if its a windy afternoon at Blackburn and they do the trick together I am all for it if we are bringing home 3 points.

Ideally I wouldn't want to see that every week, but in some instances it can work thats all I am saying and Harry obviously sees it that way or he wouldn't of used them so much. So unless Crouch is sold I just cant see how they wont play together at various points throughout the season.

Personally I would love a 30 million pound man to lead the line and go 4-5-1.

I dont see whats wrong with using different tools for different jobs but I would prefer to see good football and it can compromise that. That said, if we need the points and they end up doing the trick so be it.

Having differnt options availabile to you throughout a game certainly gives the oppossition plenty to think about as well.

Kranjcar's take on the City game was pretty much the same as mine:

http://www.tottenhamhotspur.com/news/articles/niko-060710.html

[choda]

Yes, and I can as well - for sure. But in some instances it works. All I am saying whatever way we play next season, if we have those 2 strikers out of 4 say, that at some points during the season they will end up playing together.

Its about results at the end of the day, and if its a windy afternoon at Blackburn and they do the trick together I am all for it if we are bringing home 3 points.

Ideally I wouldn't want to see that every week, but in some instances it can work thats all I am saying and Harry obviously sees it that way or he wouldn't of used them so much. So unless Crouch is sold I just cant see how they wont play together at various points throughout the season.

Personally I would love a 30 million pound man to lead the line and go 4-5-1.

I dont see whats wrong with using different tools for different jobs but I would prefer to see good football and it can compromise that. That said, if we need the points and they end up doing the trick so be it.

Having differnt options availabile to you throughout a game certainly gives the oppossition plenty to think about as well.

Kranjcar's take on the City game was pretty much the same as mine:

http://www.tottenhamhotspur.com/news/articles/niko-060710.html

Fair dues, and I see what you are saying. What I'm saying is I see Crouch and JD like I do Gerrard and Lamps, something that I think should never be paired up in a two. I think it is too detrimental on a fundemental level.

Every time I see Gerrard and Lamp as a pair no one shows for the ball off the defenders and the standard is really diminished. Every time I see Crouch and JD we can't hold the ball up well, our quality of possession suffers and it is continually launching counter attacks on our goal, opening up games we should be far more dominant and secure in.

That doesn't mean you can't still win games. England do, we do, but it leaves you open to disaster imo and long term it wouldn't get you anywhere. I said we'd finish about 7th with that pair up top because the rest of the side and what Harry has done has been so good. And the 7th team is still capable of getting good results on any given day.

I understand what you are saying about horses for courses at times. I have always advocated using Crouch at the right time and off the bench, but I also think it has to be recognised what he and his partner can and can't do.

So on a windy day or a central defence suspect to aerial power by all means use Crouchie but then I think you have to take out JD or play three up top because if you take away ball retention up front you are really rolling the dice imo.

And when it was tried for a good two months we started to go downhill in a big way, at that stage fourth looked very distant until we got good intelligent forwards back in the team to play with Crouch or JD at different times.

[olly27]

Found this on another Spurs site from quite an insightful poster regarding Crouch etc (I agree with most of it):

The whole "ball hoofed up to Crouch" thing was blown out of proportion at the time & just plain wrong now.

Yes we did play long balls at times last season, it was actually a good thing by the way, and on (literally) 1 or 2 occasions we relied on it too much. The reason being is that it had worked extremely effectively now that we had a player who could make it effective (Crouch), so when teams came and stuck 5 in the midfield OF COURSE we will go over the top instead of trying to play it thru the middle and after awhile teams clocked onto it. What was SO good about last season tho, is when they clocked onto it, we adapted again.

We had to mix it up tho & we did brilliantly. We scored goals like Defoe's against City where there were just 2 touches between Gomes & Defoe's strike on goal & we scored goals like Eidur's against Fulham which had 18 passes in the build-up &, guess what, Crouch was involved in both.

The "long-ball" thing just became an excuse when we could not force a winner against Villa and Hull and so on. Actually, it was not that at all. Yes, we played a lot of long-balls in those games but it was not the reason we failed to score, that was because of our poor finishing.

What was BRILLIANT about last season was we ALWAYS tried to play it the right way but, when that failed, we had the option to play a less pretty,more direct way.

There were times when we just played badly tho, like in the 1st half against Bolton or Fulham in the FA Cup. That wasn't because of tactics or long-balls tho, its just that the players did not play well.

Crouch & "the long-ball" became a bit of a scapegoat. In reality tho we've always played long-balls well before Crouch ever came here (Dawson & Huddlestone in particular) but we never complained about them before. Suddenly we have a player who can make something from deep crosses into the box & we all complained!! Personally, I think that was just our frustration at wanting to always see our team do their best.

At the end of the day the football I watched from us last season was 70% sublime & 20% hard-graft - the rest being a mixture of long-balls etc. Footballing wise it was the best I have seen down the Lane since the days of Gazza and I honestly cannot understand anyone who cannot appreciate the quality we played.

[choda]

Found this on another Spurs site from quite an insightful poster regarding Crouch etc (I agree with most of it):

The whole "ball hoofed up to Crouch" thing was blown out of proportion at the time & just plain wrong now.

Yes we did play long balls at times last season, it was actually a good thing by the way, and on (literally) 1 or 2 occasions we relied on it too much. The reason being is that it had worked extremely effectively now that we had a player who could make it effective (Crouch), so when teams came and stuck 5 in the midfield OF COURSE we will go over the top instead of trying to play it thru the middle and after awhile teams clocked onto it. What was SO good about last season tho, is when they clocked onto it, we adapted again.

We had to mix it up tho & we did brilliantly. We scored goals like Defoe's against City where there were just 2 touches between Gomes & Defoe's strike on goal & we scored goals like Eidur's against Fulham which had 18 passes in the build-up &, guess what, Crouch was involved in both.

The "long-ball" thing just became an excuse when we could not force a winner against Villa and Hull and so on. Actually, it was not that at all. Yes, we played a lot of long-balls in those games but it was not the reason we failed to score, that was because of our poor finishing.

What was BRILLIANT about last season was we ALWAYS tried to play it the right way but, when that failed, we had the option to play a less pretty,more direct way.

There were times when we just played badly tho, like in the 1st half against Bolton or Fulham in the FA Cup. That wasn't because of tactics or long-balls tho, its just that the players did not play well.

Crouch & "the long-ball" became a bit of a scapegoat. In reality tho we've always played long-balls well before Crouch ever came here (Dawson & Huddlestone in particular) but we never complained about them before. Suddenly we have a player who can make something from deep crosses into the box & we all complained!! Personally, I think that was just our frustration at wanting to always see our team do their best.

At the end of the day the football I watched from us last season was 70% sublime & 20% hard-graft - the rest being a mixture of long-balls etc. Footballing wise it was the best I have seen down the Lane since the days of Gazza and I honestly cannot understand anyone who cannot appreciate the quality we played.

It was our worst period of the year points wise, we went from a strong position to having our cl challenge almost slip from contention until we brought an intelligent forward back into the team.

When he went back to Crouch-JD in the last three games, we lost the fa cup semi and lost to Burnley as well.

I've no problem with going more direct at times, the problem is when you aren't hitting balls that stick (aimless) or when the forwards just aren't holding it up well you are inviting counters and a lack of control of the ball.

It's not what this guy is claiming at all, even Harry and his son were saying the players had to be educated on how to use Crouch better.

I don't think it is the players lacking education but just a natural adaptation to a pair that has problems functioning. However much the players were coached and directed when we play Crouch and Defoe if you watch closely we go longer and longer gradually after a while because better football simply isn't very effective with those two on the pitch, it is not held up well, so to get any joy you have to go to a rudimentary approach. It can be effective but overall it is very limited and as it proved over time it started to hurt us badly until it was abandoned.

The problem is not really Crouch, though he's never really great, but playing Crouch and Defoe together. When we played Crouch and Eidur they actually functioned alright as a pair and the team had no need to start reverting to anything scrappy, same with Pav-Defoe, Pav-Keane, Keane-Defoe etc.