Yet another Pav thread

[Milney yid]

Surely, SURELY Harry can see sense now, and must start Pav over the useless lanky streak of piss Crouch. Pav's goalscoring ratio recently must be about 1 every 10 minutes, and he just looks a class act. Plus I noticed at the end of the game how quick all the players were to congratulate him. He's popular with the players, the fans, please Harry join in the we love Pavlyuchenko group, COYS!

[inthewoods]

Totally agree. Pav was fantastic today when he came on and Redknapp HAS to take notice of this guys talents. He has been terribly treated at Tottenham and although his depature is inevitable he can still do a big, big job for us this season.

BTW, how triffic is Modric?

[deadleyledley]

Surely, SURELY Harry can see sense now, and must start Pav over the useless lanky streak of piss Crouch. Pav's goalscoring ratio recently must be about 1 every 10 minutes, and he just looks a class act. Plus I noticed at the end of the game how quick all the players were to congratulate him. He's popular with the players, the fans, please Harry join in the we love Pavlyuchenko group, COYS!

sounds like you are going to create a facebook group.

looks like harry is the odd one out. big decision, but quite an easy one for harry to make on wednesday.

SUPER, SUPER PAV,
SUPER, SUPER PAV,
SUPER, SUPER PAV,
SUPER PAVLYUCHENKO:santaclaus::santaclaus::santaclaus:

[nuttyhotspurs]

im pretty sure he will start mid week now and deservedly so

[Don Corleone]

Pav is so much more electric that the other strikers and can create something out of nothing... he needs a full run now. Swallow your pride 'Arry

[Antilokhos]

Pav is so much more electric that the other strikers and can create something out of nothing... he needs a full run now. Swallow your pride 'Arry
That doesn't really seem to be a strength of Harry's now does it? He didn't even look too thrilled when Pav wrapped up the points today. Just looked bored, like he always does lately.

[olly27]

Far from setting this in stone after his last few cameos, but I always said he was the best all round striker at the Club.

Baffled why the Club have failed to get the best out of this guy. Ok we dont know what his attitude is like but we do know he has talent in abundance.

[MarlowSpurs]

That doesn't really seem to be a strength of Harry's now does it? He didn't even look too thrilled when Pav wrapped up the points today. Just looked bored, like he always does lately.

I've noticed that, I just thought it was age!!!!!

[Antilokhos]

I've noticed that, I just thought it was age!!!!!
Yeah, but Wenger is roughly the same age, and Ferguson is even older. They don't look dead on the sidelines.

[choda]

That doesn't really seem to be a strength of Harry's now does it? He didn't even look too thrilled when Pav wrapped up the points today. Just looked bored, like he always does lately.

He's not the only one. :dong:

He's being God awful stubborn with Crouch and long ball. He thinks it works and he is also clinging on because he signed Crouch and really wants him to work.

It's sad the way Harry has messed up, he did so much right for so long. Last Jan to Oct was one of the best times to be a spurs fan in the last twenty years. It was class.

[choda]

Far from setting this in stone after his last few cameos, but I always said he was the best all round striker at the Club.

Baffled why the Club have failed to get the best out of this guy. Ok we dont know what his attitude is like but we do know he has talent in abundance.

That's a very big statement. Based on ability he could be as good an all rounder as Keane is/was, but he has a lot to prove because for 80% of the games last year he was so lethargic of body and mind that his general play was as big a problem as JD. He deserves to be ahead of Crouch in the pecking order though, because when he plays boy is he good and the rest of the time he isn't as limited.

[TURKISH]

Harry didn't look happy when Pav got his second, but the reaction from the lads when pav scored and post match was telling. They went nuts for him and was very happy.....Especially Defoe.

Redknapp needs to look at himself, Crouch hasn't been scoring and hasn't even looked like scoring. Pav DERSERVES a run of games and everytime he has played with Defoe they look dangerous togeather.

Why not give it a go?

Also a big shout out to defoe who scored his 22nd goal of the season!

[choda]

Harry didn't look happy when Pav got his second, but the reaction from the lads when pav scored and post match was telling. They went nuts for him and was very happy.....Especially Defoe.

Redknapp needs to look at himself, Crouch hasn't been scoring and hasn't even looked like scoring. Pav DERSERVES a run of games and everytime he has played with Defoe they look dangerous togeather.

Why not give it a go?

Also a big shout out to defoe who scored his 22nd goal of the season!

My opinion is scoring is the least of our worries up front. The scoring by everyone, especially JD (who's scoring like Ashley Cole in a brothel), hasn't been too bad. Just lately the general play up front has been non-existent.

[TURKISH]

Scoring is the least of our worries up front, the scoring by everyone, especially JD (who's scoring like Ashley Cole in a brothel), hasn't been too bad.

Before this game it was, apart from Defoe no one was chipping in. Its depressing watching Drogba who can do anything and then watch Crouch for us, he is so robust. I think Harry really rates Crouch to the point he becomes blind to bad performances, I think Pav will need to jump through walls to impress Harry. Crouch has 5 prem goals in 27 games.:thumbdown:

But another clean sheet and we are progressing all the time. Harry has done a triffic job which gets overlooked , he has improved so many players Gomes, Benoit, Bale, Dawson, Lennon, Hudd, Defoe and Modric.

[choda]

Before this game it was, apart from Defoe no one was chipping in. Its depressing watching Drogba who can do anything and then watch Crouch for us, he is so robust. I think Harry really rates Crouch to the point he becomes blind to bad performances, I think Pav will need to jump through walls to impress Harry. Crouch has 5 prem goals in 27 games.:thumbdown:

But another clean sheet and we are progressing all the time. Harry has done a triffic job which gets overlooked , he has improved so many players Gomes, Benoit, Bale, Dawson, Lennon, Hudd, Defoe and Modric.

Yea, but that's the long ball. You can't score from all over because they aren't playing together. ManU have always scored from all over because they always have a hold up player and they either play out and feed it into his feet or hit him early but so it will STICK and he holds it up and links up cleverly, then the whole team start to play.

What people don't seem to notice is this ManU team is actually pretty ordinary. The only special things are Rooney and the MANAGER. They've many so so or aging players at the moment.

With long ball you cut your options and rely focus too much on one or two tactics and players.

As for Harry, I agree but he's also shafting his progress and putting a big limit by picking Crouch. It's a disaster.

Harry had a great set of ingredients and he messed with it. Time to go back to something as similar as possible. And as you say some things have even kicked on from back then as well, the defence, Hudd, Bale, so if we sort it we could still get fourth.

[Rojoknapp]

It doesn't matter how good Pav is, because he can't be worse than Crouch, because, simply put, Crouch is shit. His first touch is appaling. His heading is disgusting. His lack of strength is embarassing. The way he keeps giving away stupid fouls is incredibly annoying. His inability to finish is stunning. The amount of time it takes him to receive the ball and move it on is SO SHIT! :cursing:

[Antilokhos]

Yea, but that's the long ball. You can't score from all over because they aren't playing together. ManU have always scored from all over because they always have a hold up player and they either play out and feed it into his feet or hit him early but so it will STICK and he holds it up and links up cleverly, then the whole team start to play.

What people don't seem to notice is this ManU team is actually pretty ordinary. The only special things are Rooney and the MANAGER. They've many so so or aging players at the moment.

With long ball you cut your options and rely focus too much on one or two tactics and players.

As for Harry, I agree but he's also shafting his progress and putting a big limit by picking Crouch. It's a disaster.

Harry had a great set of ingredients and he messed with it. Time to go back to something as similar as possible. And as you say some things have even kicked on from back then as well, the defence, Hudd, Bale, so if we sort it we could still get fourth.

Very, very true. And I think your philosophy on the game is why I usually find myself in agreement with you. When we play long ball, there is pretty much one positive thing that can happen. Crouch will control the ball and play it off another striker playing off of him. For this to work, the long ball has to be accurate, Crouch has to win the header, Crouch has to control the ball, another player has to make a run off of Crouch in a direction where Crouch can play the ball, Crouch has to be able to play the ball in that direction, and then the other player has to control the ball and proceed towards the goal. Frequently with no support since the midfielders will be nowhere near the forwards at this point. A failure on any one of those counts leads to the offensive move breaking down. There are no real alternatives for the team to pursue, no second options. It's that ridiculous series of events going off without a hitch or it is nothing.

The beauty and success of flowing football is that it creates options. When players are running off of each other, creating space, you create more options on how to move forward. Quick passing opens up more space to exploit, the defenders are moved out of position, and again, we have options going forward. And maybe we don't take those chances at first, but as we have the defenders running around, closing down the space we open up, they get tired, they get sloppy, and all of a sudden we're scoring in the late minutes, not conceding.

What's really frustrating is that we do have the players to do this. Modric, Kranjcar, Lennon, and Huddlestone were born to play this style of game. But we waste their talents by hoofing the ball up field to Crouch. And I don't blame Crouch for it, I'm sure he'd much rather play football than kickball. And if we could ever learn this lesson, and play good, fun, passing football, not only would we be more successful (see the Jan --> Oct run of last year) but better players would want to come play for us.

[olly27]

Very, very true. And I think your philosophy on the game is why I usually find myself in agreement with you. When we play long ball, there is pretty much one positive thing that can happen. Crouch will control the ball and play it off another striker playing off of him. For this to work, the long ball has to be accurate, Crouch has to win the header, Crouch has to control the ball, another player has to make a run off of Crouch in a direction where Crouch can play the ball, Crouch has to be able to play the ball in that direction, and then the other player has to control the ball and proceed towards the goal. Frequently with no support since the midfielders will be nowhere near the forwards at this point. A failure on any one of those counts leads to the offensive move breaking down. There are no real alternatives for the team to pursue, no second options. It's that ridiculous series of events going off without a hitch or it is nothing.

The beauty and success of flowing football is that it creates options. When players are running off of each other, creating space, you create more options on how to move forward. Quick passing opens up more space to exploit, the defenders are moved out of position, and again, we have options going forward. And maybe we don't take those chances at first, but as we have the defenders running around, closing down the space we open up, they get tired, they get sloppy, and all of a sudden we're scoring in the late minutes, not conceding.

What's really frustrating is that we do have the players to do this. Modric, Kranjcar, Lennon, and Huddlestone were born to play this style of game. But we waste their talents by hoofing the ball up field to Crouch. And I don't blame Crouch for it, I'm sure he'd much rather play football than kickball. And if we could ever learn this lesson, and play good, fun, passing football, not only would we be more successful (see the Jan --> Oct run of last year) but better players would want to come play for us.

Correct in everything you say there, but for me the long ball has been deployed far more since Lennon has been out, which really it shouldn't of been and is were I would be critical of Harry as we still have plenty of quality to pass and move with real purpose and create plenty of chances through free flowing football on the deck.

I also think more players were chipping in with goals when Lennon has played as the space he creates for others. Harry just hasn't had an answer for Lennon being out. Even the last game Lennon featured in, the West Ham game at home, is a great example. It was his run down the right and cutting into the box which dragged their defence all over place for it to open up for Modric to score.

Crouch should be an option from the bench and no more now. Pav deserves his chance for sure.

A front six of Defoe, Pav, Lennon, Palacios, Huddlestone, and Modric can do the business. Thats mouthwatering IMO.

[berbzy 'G']

It doesn't matter how good Pav is, because he can't be worse than Crouch, because, simply put, Crouch is shit. His first touch is appaling. His heading is disgusting. His lack of strength is embarassing. The way he keeps giving away stupid fouls is incredibly annoying. His inability to finish is stunning. The amount of time it takes him to receive the ball and move it on is SO SHIT! :cursing:

lol Crouch isn't that bad. But I see your point.

Pavlyuchenko should start upfront with Defoe next game and from now on. He fully deserves it.

[Shuggie13]

I do not disagree with anything said here so far. A side note to this debate, Huddlestone. Many have mentioned him in one positive context or another, how different from a year or so ago. 'Arry has stuck to his guns with him and what a difference it has made.

[Apples]

1. Michael Dawson is a massive amount to blame for the long ball game that we adopt so often lately. No one can deny his heart and the way his game has improved but **** me he boots out like a championship player at times!

Sometimes his long passing is accurate but it frustrates me a lot that he can't play it simple.

2. Huddlestone is not doing enough - if Palacios is the worker in the middle then Tom should be our creative player. He dont seem to make enough assists for someone in that role nor score any goals. We need someone much better than him (and I've always been a fan in the past).

3. Agree Crouch is terrible, but would wish that Choda would end his Keane love fest because he was not good enough either. Not at Liverpool, not at Spurs! He was never a number 1 player in a Spurs shirt, in fact it was only his great partnership with Berbatov that people like Choda still live on! Keane as a player is nothing special, with the perfect partner anyone can be brilliant - look at Kevin Phillips!

4. Pavyluchenko - looked very sharp and I think exciting things can happen with him and Defoe upfront.

5. As I mentioned before, Harry has worked wonders with many of our players, still doesn't excuse some of his decisions, such as the line up against Wolves and persistant playing of Crouch! But other than that he is doing better than anyone we've had here in a while, including Jol, who was far more tactically inept. People probably would have screamed for O'Neill a little while ago, but have you seen how boring Villa's football is!

6. Modric looked back to old yesterday - only great things to come from that, specially once Lennon returns. Part of me fancies Modric in the centre and Bale on left wing and Ekotto left back, dropping Hudd. But thats not too important, and most of you would probably disagree.

7. COYS - 4th place

[spursmadnick06]

I do hope that this heralds a massive turnaround in Pav's Spurs career. He has all the ability there and the fans clearly love him.

But can Harry drop his bias towards certain players?

[Gold7]

Agree with Turkish about Harry's demeana when pav scored. Harry almost looked a bit pissed off when pav scored twice as if he was thinking , Bollocks I put him on to show every one how lazy he is and he's gone and scored twice.

now this is my worry or maybe not so much of a worry but just a thought of an excuse which I think harry will try to use . Lets say pav gets into the team and it coincides wit Lennons returning and then we start playing some flowing football with good play up front between defoe and pav and start looking a decent footballing side again with out Crouch in the team . I would bet any money Harry will put it all down simply to do with Lennons return and nothing will be said about pav's influence.

[denis-cro]

Agree with Turkish about Harry's demeana when pav scored. Harry almost looked a bit pissed off when pav scored twice as if he was thinking , Bollocks I put him on to show every one how lazy he is and he's gone and scored twice.


This is why I´m calling for his head long time... Harry´s a disgrace, and his reaction to Pav´s goal yesterday proves it... ****ing disgracefull comment after the match claiming that Roman was trying alot in the training last two days, and he deserved his share of football ???????? WHAT ??? So, basicly, there is nothing wrong with Rodney to playing shit like he plays last few months. Roman should deserve his share of football because Rodney was terrible, not because he trains well FFS !!!!!!!!!

[earl warwick]

What a load of bollocks is being said, regarding Harry's expression when Pav scored. Does anyone seriously think a manager sends on a player to look shit - remember it's an away game, on a terrible pitch, with Spurs only one up - and then looks pissed off that it didn't happen? If you do, you're expressing your own feelings about Pav's merits over Crouch's, but remember Pav has been injured for many of the last games, and so couldn't be picked anyway. I'd describe Harry's expression as wry, seeing confirmation of what Pav can do when he puts his mind to it, which is what he said after the game.

A manager usually won't pick a player who he doesn't see giving any effort or commitment in training, regardless of his qualities, which is exactly what happened to Bentley. Why no outcry over Bentley? It's because Lennon has been in great form where Crouch hasn't, and Crouch looks a very freakish individual, leading to all this garbage about a long ball game.

Let's see Pav do it over 90 minutes. He's got the ability, but has he got the determination? He hasn't shown it so far, maybe things have changed. One thing's for sure, it only benefits Harry for him to play and score goals, since even if he wants him out in the summer, his value will rise and give Harry extra funds for a replacement.

[Rojoknapp]

What a load of bollocks is being said, regarding Harry's expression when Pav scored. Does anyone seriously think a manager sends on a player to look shit - remember it's an away game, on a terrible pitch, with Spurs only one up - and then looks pissed off that it didn't happen? If you do, you're expressing your own feelings about Pav's merits over Crouch's, but remember Pav has been injured for many of the last games, and so couldn't be picked anyway. I'd describe Harry's expression as wry, seeing confirmation of what Pav can do when he puts his mind to it, which is what he said after the game.

A manager usually won't pick a player who he doesn't see giving any effort or commitment in training, regardless of his qualities, which is exactly what happened to Bentley. Why no outcry over Bentley? It's because Lennon has been in great form where Crouch hasn't, and Crouch looks a very freakish individual, leading to all this garbage about a long ball game.

Let's see Pav do it over 90 minutes. He's got the ability, but has he got the determination? He hasn't shown it so far, maybe things have changed. One thing's for sure, it only benefits Harry for him to play and score goals, since even if he wants him out in the summer, his value will rise and give Harry extra funds for a replacement.

Thank you. Exactly my thoughts on Harry, and especially Pav. Much as we all love him and love seeing how much he enjoys scoring for us, how many times do we actually see him put in the required effort over 90 minutes? How many times last season did we watch him drift out of games for an hour or so before showing us a nice touch, before disappearing again?

[Gold7]

Earl I was more eluding to the fact that pav has talked him self up lately and accused Harry of not considering him at all and then he comes on and puts his money where his mouth is. Now don't tell me part of Harry didn't feel like a fool for not giving him chances earlier in the season and I'm not talking starts but even giving him mins in tight games.

And on your theory of having to impress the manager in training , Crouch must play like Maradona in training because he's become un drop-able .

[earl warwick]

Earl I was more eluding to the fact that pav has talked him self up lately and accused Harry of not considering him at all and then he comes on and puts his money where his mouth is. Now don't tell me part of Harry didn't feel like a fool for not giving him chances earlier in the season and I'm not talking starts but even giving him mins in tight games.

And on your theory of having to impress the manager in training , Crouch must play like Maradona in training because he's become un drop-able .

Crouch is a known quantity for Redknapp, having managed him twice before and been an integral part of his team. Managers like players like Crouch because they don't complain to the press when they don't start, and give everything they've got in training and when they come on. You don't have to be Maradona in training, just turn up on time and give it your all.

I can tell you very easily the last thing Harry feels like is a fool. Pav can easily score in 20 minutes, especially against a tired Wigan side on that pitch, and with the quality of service from Modric. Games usually last at least 90 minutes. Plaudits to Pav for the 2nd goal, which was exceptional, reinforcing Harry's assessment that when he puts his mind to it, he can be top class.

[Gold7]

Crouch is a known quantity for Redknapp, having managed him twice before and been an integral part of his team. Managers like players like Crouch because they don't complain to the press when they don't start, and give everything they've got in training and when they come on. You don't have to be Maradona in training, just turn up on time and give it your all.

I can tell you very easily the last thing Harry feels like is a fool. Pav can easily score in 20 minutes, especially against a tired Wigan side on that pitch, and with the quality of service from Modric. Games usually last at least 90 minutes. Plaudits to Pav for the 2nd goal, which was exceptional, reinforcing Harry's assessment that when he puts his mind to it, he can be top class.

Harry has transformed us greatly, I could never see spurs battle out a win on a pitch like that post Harry and he is getting the best out of almost every player who wasn't performing to their capability before he arrived . Harry has done lots of things right and I think he's an excellent manager I just don't want his stubbornness regarding the strikers to hold us back much like wengers stubbornness at arse .

And fair enough about not having to be maradona in training to get picked , but how poor does a player have to play to get dropped in favour of change especially when it comes to strikers , and when goals dry up . I'm of course talking about Crouch can you tell me if he's ever been subbed off in a spurs shirt .

[olly27]

What a load of bollocks is being said, regarding Harry's expression when Pav scored. Does anyone seriously think a manager sends on a player to look shit - remember it's an away game, on a terrible pitch, with Spurs only one up - and then looks pissed off that it didn't happen? If you do, you're expressing your own feelings about Pav's merits over Crouch's, but remember Pav has been injured for many of the last games, and so couldn't be picked anyway. I'd describe Harry's expression as wry, seeing confirmation of what Pav can do when he puts his mind to it, which is what he said after the game.

A manager usually won't pick a player who he doesn't see giving any effort or commitment in training, regardless of his qualities, which is exactly what happened to Bentley. Why no outcry over Bentley? It's because Lennon has been in great form where Crouch hasn't, and Crouch looks a very freakish individual, leading to all this garbage about a long ball game.

Let's see Pav do it over 90 minutes. He's got the ability, but has he got the determination? He hasn't shown it so far, maybe things have changed. One thing's for sure, it only benefits Harry for him to play and score goals, since even if he wants him out in the summer, his value will rise and give Harry extra funds for a replacement.


Agree Earl, however surely a manager has to try and get the best out of the quality at his disposal? Referring to Pav here, I mean we buy a 13.8 million asset, admittedly not a Harry purchase, and just basically sideline him even though there were plenty of occassions we could of threw him on with nothing to lose. We know he has quality but his attitude and workrate seem to be questionnable, and we can do something about those but in terms of quality you either have it or you dont.

I mean he is contracted to play for this Club, effort in training should be a fundamental prerequisite. Perhaps we should be more diligent with our purchases if we are signing players who wont apply the basics and ignore certain expected standards of efforts.

Of course football isn't that simple though, but it seems odd to me that we are failing to get more out of a very talented player we invested heavily in.

[earl warwick]

Crouch's record speaks for itself. He was shit yesterday, but it's 1 goal in 3 starts and nearly a goal per game for the Crouch/Defoe duo when they start.

He's usually not subbed because, unlike Defoe, he doesn't involve himself in stupid bookings, and offers the archetypal plan B. It's not heading, as it is portrayed, but to his chest, where he can control the ball and lay if off.

What do you do with a player that offers little in training? As a manager, you would be remiss in starting him in games. Training is important, class tells, but only if you reproduce it. Pav clearly has the class, let's see him show it over 90 minutes.

[Gold7]

I'm going to leave it there on this particular matter (pav).

Earl can you tell me if you've been impressed with crouch's hold up play this season ?

And by the way I like the fella as an honest pro.

[earl warwick]

I'm going to leave it there on this particular matter (pav).

Earl can you tell me if you've been impressed with crouch's hold up play this season ?

And by the way I like the fella as an honest pro.

No, but that's not his game, and the ball's normally been played too high to him. He's not a Heskey that bullies defences and overpowers defenders.

[Gold7]

If hold up play is not his game I really don't know what is ?
People say he has good feet I don't see that .
His touch is not the best his chest control is very good but by the time he releases the ball he's been tackled .
He doesn't even score many headed goals from set pieces .
He can't even get him self turned to face the opposition goal .
But he does give 100% but there has to be more coming from any player than just giving 100 % or else O'hara would be in the starting 11 .

[Antilokhos]

I think Crouch could play decently within the squad, just whenever he's in, they go long ball way too often. That should be the 3rd or 4th option, too much with Spurs (since Keane lost his way) it has been option one. And the results have been less than ideal.

[Rojoknapp]

Crouch's record speaks for itself. He was shit yesterday, but it's 1 goal in 3 starts and nearly a goal per game for the Crouch/Defoe duo when they start.

He's usually not subbed because, unlike Defoe, he doesn't involve himself in stupid bookings, and offers the archetypal plan B. It's not heading, as it is portrayed, but to his chest, where he can control the ball and lay if off.

What do you do with a player that offers little in training? As a manager, you would be remiss in starting him in games. Training is important, class tells, but only if you reproduce it. Pav clearly has the class, let's see him show it over 90 minutes.

This is exactly the problem. He can't. He's too weak to hold off defenders, and his first touch is too poor. Even if by some miracle he takes it down, he then either loses the ball once it's on the ground or just takes an age in getting it out of his feet and running ten yards towards our goal before laying it off.

[earl warwick]

If hold up play is not his game I really don't know what is ?
People say he has good feet I don't see that .
His touch is not the best his chest control is very good but by the time he releases the ball he's been tackled .
He doesn't even score many headed goals from set pieces .
He can't even get him self turned to face the opposition goal .
But he does give 100% but there has to be more coming from any player than just giving 100 % or else O'hara would be in the starting 11 .
The record speaks for itself. Harry must be some mug to take this guy on for 3 clubs.

His touch is akin to the best, hence great touch for a tall guy. That's why knocking it up to his head is futile.

Where he's seriously lacking is being knocked over by defenders when controlling the ball.

[olly27]

Crouch's record speaks for itself. He was shit yesterday, but it's 1 goal in 3 starts and nearly a goal per game for the Crouch/Defoe duo when they start.

He's usually not subbed because, unlike Defoe, he doesn't involve himself in stupid bookings, and offers the archetypal plan B. It's not heading, as it is portrayed, but to his chest, where he can control the ball and lay if off.

What do you do with a player that offers little in training? As a manager, you would be remiss in starting him in games. Training is important, class tells, but only if you reproduce it. Pav clearly has the class, let's see him show it over 90 minutes.

lol...Kind of explains Harry's reaction on the pitch to his goals. More pertinently what do you with a player who does that, and reportedly doesn't do much in training the majority of he time!

I liked this quote on it:

Pavlyuchenko has hardly played all season yet he effectively done more in his 20 minutes cameo then Crouch has done in his past 180 minutes. Yes we don't see what he is like in training but then again I don't give a sh*t. What has cost us dearly in 2010 so far has been a lack of goals" - Vandelay Industries.

[Antilokhos]

We in here talking about practice? About practice? Not a game. We talking about practice. How silly is that?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGDBR2L5kzI

Allen Iverson says all there is to say on the issue of producing in training.

As for Pav, the man produces when he's on the pitch, more than you can see for his competition. And while you can certainly lose a championship on the practice field the only place you can win it is during the game.

[choda]

1. Michael Dawson is a massive amount to blame for the long ball game that we adopt so often lately. No one can deny his heart and the way his game has improved but **** me he boots out like a championship player at times!

Sometimes his long passing is accurate but it frustrates me a lot that he can't play it simple.

2. Huddlestone is not doing enough - if Palacios is the worker in the middle then Tom should be our creative player. He dont seem to make enough assists for someone in that role nor score any goals. We need someone much better than him (and I've always been a fan in the past).

3. Agree Crouch is terrible, but would wish that Choda would end his Keane love fest because he was not good enough either. Not at Liverpool, not at Spurs! He was never a number 1 player in a Spurs shirt, in fact it was only his great partnership with Berbatov that people like Choda still live on! Keane as a player is nothing special, with the perfect partner anyone can be brilliant - look at Kevin Phillips!

4. Pavyluchenko - looked very sharp and I think exciting things can happen with him and Defoe upfront.

5. As I mentioned before, Harry has worked wonders with many of our players, still doesn't excuse some of his decisions, such as the line up against Wolves and persistant playing of Crouch! But other than that he is doing better than anyone we've had here in a while, including Jol, who was far more tactically inept. People probably would have screamed for O'Neill a little while ago, but have you seen how boring Villa's football is!

6. Modric looked back to old yesterday - only great things to come from that, specially once Lennon returns. Part of me fancies Modric in the centre and Bale on left wing and Ekotto left back, dropping Hudd. But thats not too important, and most of you would probably disagree.

7. COYS - 4th place

That's horseshit mate regarding Keane. Keane was at his best with Berba, as was Berbatov with Keane. But Keane has always been a fantastic footballer. His record is excellent even aside from his time with Berbatov.

I'd love to know a player that can make another one look so good that he can score 40 goals in 47 games and get 15 assists in one calender year.

I feat that he almost matched with Mido and his international record speaks for itself. I don't know a Paddy Berbatov.

He hasn't been in top form since coming back, no one denies that, but he's still a classy footballer and brought much needed link up and leadership. It was subtle but still made a big difference. You can see what it did for Modric before and after.

Modric has only sparked into life properly recently when Pav came on and was at it and had the class for him to play off.

You say a great player always makes another look good, that's not the case at all. Sometimes actually great ones need the clever ones with less ability but that make players around them better so they have someone on the same wavelength.

Modric needed Keane, so did Berba. Just like Modric needs a working hard Pavlechenko. And our team desperately needs it.

You don't just need great players, you need the top/very good ones as well and you need the right things in the right areas. And you need great attitudes.

[Gino Ginelli]

I think I've been saying all season how Pav deserves to be ahead of Crouch in the team. I'm hoping big style to see that faith proved well founded in this half of the season.